triggers..sensitivity..and sr
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Join Date: Jan 2013
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triggers..sensitivity..and sr
I was just wondering what you guys think was appropriate to discuss on this forum? I gather inspirational stories are always ok. medical advice is not ok. Are threads about recovery methods a trigger for too many?(not everyone agrees)
Are any debates about what addiction theory a dangerous trigger?(not everyone agrees) Are religious thread triggers for many? Stories of relapse? stories of good times? stories of different then not widely accepted experience..like moderation and success in that totally out? is pushing or suggesting any particular recovery method totally out?
This is an honest question. I do feel like it's walking on eggshells sometimes. i don't know if limiting the amount we can discuss is a good thing just because it possibly could be a trigger? I realize anything can be a trigger.
I also don't know if holding people accountable for another persons relapse or worse just because he/she expressed their opinion which was different is fair or correct thinking. maybe that's just scapegoating. it seems unfair to me. I know the mods do a good job of keeping order but I don't really know what the general accepted level of idea censorship and free speech is preferred by the majority here.
what do you guys think about it?. Do you also think that if somebody has a trigger they can just not read or answer a thread or is that unrealistic or simplistic thinking?
Are any debates about what addiction theory a dangerous trigger?(not everyone agrees) Are religious thread triggers for many? Stories of relapse? stories of good times? stories of different then not widely accepted experience..like moderation and success in that totally out? is pushing or suggesting any particular recovery method totally out?
This is an honest question. I do feel like it's walking on eggshells sometimes. i don't know if limiting the amount we can discuss is a good thing just because it possibly could be a trigger? I realize anything can be a trigger.
I also don't know if holding people accountable for another persons relapse or worse just because he/she expressed their opinion which was different is fair or correct thinking. maybe that's just scapegoating. it seems unfair to me. I know the mods do a good job of keeping order but I don't really know what the general accepted level of idea censorship and free speech is preferred by the majority here.
what do you guys think about it?. Do you also think that if somebody has a trigger they can just not read or answer a thread or is that unrealistic or simplistic thinking?
Member
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Engerland
Posts: 897
I try to confine my posts to my experience and make suggestions only. Often get that wrong and once posted on here and was picked up on it by a mod. I had reacted to a post very badly and my comments were unhelpful and potentially damaging. Food for thought for me. However i am not a proponent of the 'hug to death' variety of help. I have seen people here relapse time after time and get ((hugs)). Often they disappear to God knows where....
We alcoholics are sensitive 'darlings' and there is nothing i liked more as a serial relapser than to have sunshine blown up my butt and a big hug.
Then someone said 'Gary this will kill you. This takes self honesty and courage. Gary you have been playing at recovery. Time to shut up and listen to people who ARE SOBER' get over yourself and get well...here is how you do it'.
Tough love maybe. Those people are saving my life.
One size never fits all, and yes i feel like i walk on eggshells sometimes. However i exercise my right not to comment, and i use my judgement more often these days.
All part of my practicing sober living.
G
We alcoholics are sensitive 'darlings' and there is nothing i liked more as a serial relapser than to have sunshine blown up my butt and a big hug.
Then someone said 'Gary this will kill you. This takes self honesty and courage. Gary you have been playing at recovery. Time to shut up and listen to people who ARE SOBER' get over yourself and get well...here is how you do it'.
Tough love maybe. Those people are saving my life.
One size never fits all, and yes i feel like i walk on eggshells sometimes. However i exercise my right not to comment, and i use my judgement more often these days.
All part of my practicing sober living.
G
Grateful
Join Date: May 2013
Location: NC
Posts: 1,763
The longer I have been here (and at other non recovery forums I frequent) the more examples I see of how difficult it can be to covey the true meaning of typed words, regardless of intent. I think it can be harder to bite our tongues here, because we know that addiction can be deadly and we don't want to see anyone go down that path.
I've gotten much better at censoring myself over time, but I think that has mostly come from trial and error (and some friendly advice from mods at times
). Part of it might be that as I have grown in my sobriety I realize that I can't make anyone get sober. All I can do is share my ESH and let them know that I'm willing to help.
The other thing I've learned to do is not get sucked into a thread that has the potential to go sideways. There are many different approaches to recovery and at this forum they are all represented. I might not agree with a certain approach, but getting into a debate over it rarely solves anything and usually ends up with feelings getting hurt. This would be a good example of what I mean by self censoring myself. If I ask myself if what I'm posting is for someone else's benefit or for my benefit, that will usually tell me whether or not I should post it.
I've gotten much better at censoring myself over time, but I think that has mostly come from trial and error (and some friendly advice from mods at times
). Part of it might be that as I have grown in my sobriety I realize that I can't make anyone get sober. All I can do is share my ESH and let them know that I'm willing to help.The other thing I've learned to do is not get sucked into a thread that has the potential to go sideways. There are many different approaches to recovery and at this forum they are all represented. I might not agree with a certain approach, but getting into a debate over it rarely solves anything and usually ends up with feelings getting hurt. This would be a good example of what I mean by self censoring myself. If I ask myself if what I'm posting is for someone else's benefit or for my benefit, that will usually tell me whether or not I should post it.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 138
I agree that the moderators do an excellent job. I have seen many other public forums, and none come close to the level of civility here. I think that's partly about the people who post and partly about the moderators.
I want to add politics to the list of things that are off limits (not in the sense that anyone who mentions them should be censored, just in the sense that we as community members should avoid the topic if possible). I have had a couple of experiences where I've seen recovery posts here intertwined with some political opinions and the political opinions (because I didn't agree with them) interfered with my ability to hear the recovery message.
I want to add politics to the list of things that are off limits (not in the sense that anyone who mentions them should be censored, just in the sense that we as community members should avoid the topic if possible). I have had a couple of experiences where I've seen recovery posts here intertwined with some political opinions and the political opinions (because I didn't agree with them) interfered with my ability to hear the recovery message.
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Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: C.C. Ma.
Posts: 3,697
"We alcoholics are sensitive 'darlings' and there is nothing i liked more as a serial relapser than to have sunshine blown up my butt and a big hug.
Then someone said 'Gary this will kill you. This takes self honesty and courage. Gary you have been playing at recovery. Time to shut up and listen to people who ARE SOBER' get over yourself and get well...here is how you do it'.
Tough love maybe. Those people are saving my life."
100% agreement! I've been on both sides of the track looking for the softer easier way because I was tender and didn't suffer well, pour me another drink. Then I learned to listen to the OLD timers who understood my "complexities" and directed me to the front row and listen as I had NO experience with sobriety to offer. It worked for me and many years later I still am listening.
BE WELL
Then someone said 'Gary this will kill you. This takes self honesty and courage. Gary you have been playing at recovery. Time to shut up and listen to people who ARE SOBER' get over yourself and get well...here is how you do it'.
Tough love maybe. Those people are saving my life."
100% agreement! I've been on both sides of the track looking for the softer easier way because I was tender and didn't suffer well, pour me another drink. Then I learned to listen to the OLD timers who understood my "complexities" and directed me to the front row and listen as I had NO experience with sobriety to offer. It worked for me and many years later I still am listening.
BE WELL
Member
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: LA - Lower Alabama
Posts: 5,068
The posts that bother me are the "how much did you drink?" type posts. I find these comparisons useless at best and potentially harmful. I don't want a newcomer to see that I drank 3x as much as they did and then draw the conclusion that they don't have a problem.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Earth
Posts: 1,791
You know, I've learned over many years that the proper adult response to any forum post (in a forum with rules) that bothers me is 'Alrighty then' and moving on to the next post. That doesn't mean I always abide by it, but I think that's the right answer....
Member
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Central America/Florida USA
Posts: 4,064
I enjoy most posts on the forums and the Mods seem to have a good feel. I think that some of the "veterans" of the board can smell an inappropriate post a mile away. It's a fuzzy line, and it's hard to define.
I personally think that newcomers to the board should be given a bit of a break. I know my first posts didn't go where they should have.
It's the Mods job to figure that out. I'm sure they meet to discuss such things, and what they are doing seems to be working.
I personally think that newcomers to the board should be given a bit of a break. I know my first posts didn't go where they should have.
It's the Mods job to figure that out. I'm sure they meet to discuss such things, and what they are doing seems to be working.
Living and Loving Life at Last
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: gods own country
Posts: 12,169
Because most of understanding of what is being said comes from body language, it can be all to easy to misinterpret what is being 'said' here. We 'hear' it the way we chose to, depending on our mood.
I have learned that in certain moods, I oughtn't to visit these threads at all, and at other times, I can read but oughtn't post. We have very fragile egos, and almost chose to deliberately read the worst interpretation of what's written, when we are at our lowest and most vulnerable.
There are so many threads here, covering all and every interest, that I feel we need to use what common sense we have to avoid any that may trigger us at certain times, and go to those we feel supported and nurtured when we need it. We are drunks, not children, and ought to help ourselves to maintain our sobriety as best we can.
I have been on the wrong side of the mods for posts, and have recently had pictures removed that were considered outwith the rules. I don't always agree with the level chosen and the point at which it is crossed, but I do recognise that my personal standards are slightly different, and I recognise the need for monitoring and censoring, to maintain safety and civility.
I have learned that in certain moods, I oughtn't to visit these threads at all, and at other times, I can read but oughtn't post. We have very fragile egos, and almost chose to deliberately read the worst interpretation of what's written, when we are at our lowest and most vulnerable.
There are so many threads here, covering all and every interest, that I feel we need to use what common sense we have to avoid any that may trigger us at certain times, and go to those we feel supported and nurtured when we need it. We are drunks, not children, and ought to help ourselves to maintain our sobriety as best we can.
I have been on the wrong side of the mods for posts, and have recently had pictures removed that were considered outwith the rules. I don't always agree with the level chosen and the point at which it is crossed, but I do recognise that my personal standards are slightly different, and I recognise the need for monitoring and censoring, to maintain safety and civility.
Poison Eater Extraordinaire
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: East Coast, USA
Posts: 1,031
Originally Posted by caboblanco 
Are any debates about what addiction theory a dangerous trigger?(not everyone agrees) Are religious thread triggers for many? Stories of relapse? stories of good times? stories of different then not widely accepted experience..like moderation and success in that totally out? is pushing or suggesting any particular recovery method totally out?
I'm still pretty sick in the head, angry more days than not. But even I know, while reading the newcomers board especially, that some people are still sicker than me - even if it's masked by things like overly-confident declarations that one can do controlled drinking. I guess I think the only sh*t that really doesn't belong here is glorification of use. The drunk posts don't bother me either. Everyone needs a friend when they are low and vulnerable.
I used to engage a lot more when I first came on here a few years ago. I was very reactive. I try not to do that anymore - if someone's post irritates the sh*t out of me, I know it has more to do with me than with them. Or, sometimes, they are just being annoying and I need to walk away like a big girl.
All I know is, I do commend the mods for what they do. Even after a month or so of being back on here, I see the same stuff being brought up over and over again. Sometimes I get tired of it. Moderating must take patience. Plus, having to welcome all the newcomers. I'd be mentally exhausted after a week.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 138
I've been on the board for a while now too (coming up on 2 years, at least reading for that long). I agree that the same topics come up over and over and that the moderators have incredible patience.
But I find the repetitiveness helps me in a weird way: It reminds me that I am not "special" in my addiction, everyone seems to go through the same phases, questions. It helps me remember that I am just like everyone else who is an alcoholic. There was nothing special about how my alcoholism progressed; it's well documented in others' similar experiences here. There's nothing special about my recovery; I have to work it every day, as well documented here. What's hard for me isn't any harder than it is for anyone else. I don't need to imagine what will happen to me if I relapse, I can see it here.
Repetition is a great teacher.
But I find the repetitiveness helps me in a weird way: It reminds me that I am not "special" in my addiction, everyone seems to go through the same phases, questions. It helps me remember that I am just like everyone else who is an alcoholic. There was nothing special about how my alcoholism progressed; it's well documented in others' similar experiences here. There's nothing special about my recovery; I have to work it every day, as well documented here. What's hard for me isn't any harder than it is for anyone else. I don't need to imagine what will happen to me if I relapse, I can see it here.
Repetition is a great teacher.
Hears The Voice
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Unshackled
Posts: 7,901
Originally Posted by caboblanco
Are any debates about what addiction theory a dangerous trigger?(not everyone agrees)
So, from the standpoint of meeting the objective of Sober Recovery, I see negative consequences to these types of debates, but no positive consequences. All risk, no reward.
SR does allow space for information about numerous recovery methods to be posted. Many of these methods are based on differing opinions of addiction. I am satisfied that this path allows for information dissemination without creating unnecessary friction.
Overall the mods do a great job, IMO. I've seen a few threads get locked for reasons I thought were de minimis. I've had a few of my own posts deleted or edited by a mod for being too coarse (which among alcoholics seems ironic, but so be it). But in the aggregate, I think they are doing a bang up job.
The internet is a big place. Surely there is a forum for these types of debates available. I've never looked, but I'd be surprised to find out there isn't.
Forum Leader
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Wisconsin, USA
Posts: 16,945
Life is a trigger for me, so I really don't have a problem with any posts as potential triggers - I simply don't read the ones that i don't find helpful or interesting. And I don't feel it's the mods responsiblity to somehow "sheild" us from controversial subjects.
I do feel the mods should ( and do a great job of by the way ) remove posts that are directly against the rules ( medical advice, personal attacks, etc ).
I do feel the mods should ( and do a great job of by the way ) remove posts that are directly against the rules ( medical advice, personal attacks, etc ).
Member
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 557
I don't really know what it's like for a newcomer, because I was sober five years before I found this site. In that time, I was in AA, so I guess I'm used to listening to people who I don't agree with! I don't like arguing; I don't think it's helpful for me, so I don't participate. But it might be helpful for others, so who am I to tell them what they should or shouldn't talk about. Forum rules are what I worry about. In AA, I keep it to AA. In the 12-step recovery, I keep it to 12-step. In the general alcoholism forum, I stay more general, but offer my experience when it seems appropriate.
Sharing what I believe I think is always acceptable, as long as I don't make it seem like everyone else has to believe it. Debates about recovery methods or whether we are recovered or recovering, whether we are alcoholics or non-drinkers, whether we have a disease or not, whether I can stay sober on my own will-power or need a higher power - most of those seem to devolve into "I'm right, and you're wrong" discussions or "How can you possibly believe that?!" So they may start out sharing my personal experience, but then they get defensive. So as another person posted, I always check my motives. Do I want to be right or prove a point, or am I trying to help someone?
We are alcoholics (or non-drinkers). We will drink if we want, regardless of what someone says on a forum. A few recent threads really reminded me of that. No matter how encouraging we were, the people just didn't see it. It happens. About the only thing I can think of that might be damaging is suggesting to someone that they can moderate their drinking. I think (may be wrong) that no matter what program, method, therapy, or non-program we use to stay sober, we can agree that we should abstain if drinking is causing us problems.
I do not personally relate to how some people got/stay sober here. It's like we are on completely different wavelengths. But they're sober, so I can learn from that.
Sharing what I believe I think is always acceptable, as long as I don't make it seem like everyone else has to believe it. Debates about recovery methods or whether we are recovered or recovering, whether we are alcoholics or non-drinkers, whether we have a disease or not, whether I can stay sober on my own will-power or need a higher power - most of those seem to devolve into "I'm right, and you're wrong" discussions or "How can you possibly believe that?!" So they may start out sharing my personal experience, but then they get defensive. So as another person posted, I always check my motives. Do I want to be right or prove a point, or am I trying to help someone?
We are alcoholics (or non-drinkers). We will drink if we want, regardless of what someone says on a forum. A few recent threads really reminded me of that. No matter how encouraging we were, the people just didn't see it. It happens. About the only thing I can think of that might be damaging is suggesting to someone that they can moderate their drinking. I think (may be wrong) that no matter what program, method, therapy, or non-program we use to stay sober, we can agree that we should abstain if drinking is causing us problems.
I do not personally relate to how some people got/stay sober here. It's like we are on completely different wavelengths. But they're sober, so I can learn from that.
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The mods are great here especially the animal one. I think we all can agree on that. The other people are great here too. We get a bad stigma in society as addicts but on these boards in my mind it doesn't show at all. Have you
ever been to other message boards on the internet? This place seems like the UN compared to those. I think for the most part we are very civil and sensitive and its not just the mods. Maybe that says something about the internet in general. This site gets a lot of traffic yet is the best one I ever found. Any addict who finds it is lucky imo even if they just browse through.
ever been to other message boards on the internet? This place seems like the UN compared to those. I think for the most part we are very civil and sensitive and its not just the mods. Maybe that says something about the internet in general. This site gets a lot of traffic yet is the best one I ever found. Any addict who finds it is lucky imo even if they just browse through.
Grateful to be free
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Arizona
Posts: 3,680
Since this is a recovery forum, and my understanding is that we, as addicts must refrain from all use of our addictive substances. I feel like threads that encourage moderate drinking or drug use are off topic.
Threads where people ask about moderation, or about the possibility of drinking/using again safely after a period of abstinence seem on topic to me, but if someone comes on here ENCOURAGING that behavior, I think that is off topic. As far as I know that is already built into the forum rules.
There are things that trigger me, and it is my job to realize what those are and act accordingly. If a thread is going someplace that is not good for my own sobriety, it's time for me to bow out.
I try to limit my posts to sharing my own experience, so I am not dissecting or talking out my butt. If I have no experience with something, I probably don't have anything useful to share on it.
I used to try to defend my position. But I've come to see that was counter productive to me. I only ended up getting worked up. Now I try to stick to saying my piece and then leaving it at that. If others don't agree...it really makes no difference to me. It doesn't change my experience. I can read their experience and take from it what I can, but I have NEVER gotten any good out of being involved in a tug of war. They are fun to watch though!
There are topics that come up all the time, I assume because people need to keep talking about those topics, and we are always getting new people so the same issues come up. Some of them are topics I still feel I need clarification on, so I read them. Others I have no interest in...so I don't. It doesn't bother me at all that they come up. I'm not a moderator so I have no pressure to read anything I don't care to or don't have time for.
I think it's good that we have the PM option. Sometimes I read posts that go way off topic (and derail a very interesting thread) that I think might better have been done in a PM...or by starting a different thread, or some very personal thing comes up, that again, might better have been said in private, but that is up to the poster, so my personal opinion is neither here nor there. But I have noticed a number of very good honest threads get derailed by either a tangent or a too personal response.
I come here for my recovery. I know I can't save, or make or break the recovery of another person. I know I can't expect someone to make or break my recovery for me. If someone comes here and they decide they need to drink or use again because someone didn't hand them their pink cloud...that is unfortunate, but the truth is no one can hand them their pink cloud and eventually it all boils down to the fact that we have to decide we aren't going to use or drink anymore and find whatever resources it takes to maintain that on our own.
I'm not about kicking newcomers or anyone else in the gut and claiming it's for their own good. But neither do I advocate not being honest in a so called attempt to make the newcomer feel what? It's not job or ability to make anyone feel anything. If I can start a post with "This is my experience" and I am actually talking about MY experience, not MY opinion on someone I once met that sounded just like them....then it's probably good.
The one thing I absolutely abhor is people judging the "quality" of another person's sobriety. Or pontificating about their own. I read it over and over again. "sure, you're not drinking, but I wouldn't want your quality of sobriety..." Anytime we turn recovery into a competition I think we've blown the purpose of this forum. Whenever anything is said or done to shame another person we disrespect the purpose of this forum.
Threads where people ask about moderation, or about the possibility of drinking/using again safely after a period of abstinence seem on topic to me, but if someone comes on here ENCOURAGING that behavior, I think that is off topic. As far as I know that is already built into the forum rules.
There are things that trigger me, and it is my job to realize what those are and act accordingly. If a thread is going someplace that is not good for my own sobriety, it's time for me to bow out.
I try to limit my posts to sharing my own experience, so I am not dissecting or talking out my butt. If I have no experience with something, I probably don't have anything useful to share on it.
I used to try to defend my position. But I've come to see that was counter productive to me. I only ended up getting worked up. Now I try to stick to saying my piece and then leaving it at that. If others don't agree...it really makes no difference to me. It doesn't change my experience. I can read their experience and take from it what I can, but I have NEVER gotten any good out of being involved in a tug of war. They are fun to watch though!
There are topics that come up all the time, I assume because people need to keep talking about those topics, and we are always getting new people so the same issues come up. Some of them are topics I still feel I need clarification on, so I read them. Others I have no interest in...so I don't. It doesn't bother me at all that they come up. I'm not a moderator so I have no pressure to read anything I don't care to or don't have time for.
I think it's good that we have the PM option. Sometimes I read posts that go way off topic (and derail a very interesting thread) that I think might better have been done in a PM...or by starting a different thread, or some very personal thing comes up, that again, might better have been said in private, but that is up to the poster, so my personal opinion is neither here nor there. But I have noticed a number of very good honest threads get derailed by either a tangent or a too personal response.
I come here for my recovery. I know I can't save, or make or break the recovery of another person. I know I can't expect someone to make or break my recovery for me. If someone comes here and they decide they need to drink or use again because someone didn't hand them their pink cloud...that is unfortunate, but the truth is no one can hand them their pink cloud and eventually it all boils down to the fact that we have to decide we aren't going to use or drink anymore and find whatever resources it takes to maintain that on our own.
I'm not about kicking newcomers or anyone else in the gut and claiming it's for their own good. But neither do I advocate not being honest in a so called attempt to make the newcomer feel what? It's not job or ability to make anyone feel anything. If I can start a post with "This is my experience" and I am actually talking about MY experience, not MY opinion on someone I once met that sounded just like them....then it's probably good.
The one thing I absolutely abhor is people judging the "quality" of another person's sobriety. Or pontificating about their own. I read it over and over again. "sure, you're not drinking, but I wouldn't want your quality of sobriety..." Anytime we turn recovery into a competition I think we've blown the purpose of this forum. Whenever anything is said or done to shame another person we disrespect the purpose of this forum.
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Originally Posted by freethinking
The drunk posts don't bother me either. Everyone needs a friend when they are low and vulnerable.
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should have to be sober before they reach out for help. i also don't think there should be a pecking order based on your amount of sober time or how hard your particular story is. Sometimes I see lack of respect in that way. newcomers teach me just as much as old timers and heavy war vets.
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Originally Posted by Threshold
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The one thing I absolutely abhor is people judging the "quality" of another person's sobriety. Or pontificating about their own. I read it over and over again. "sure, you're not drinking, but I wouldn't want your quality of sobriety...".
The one thing I absolutely abhor is people judging the "quality" of another person's sobriety. Or pontificating about their own. I read it over and over again. "sure, you're not drinking, but I wouldn't want your quality of sobriety...".
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