A recovery contradiction.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: London.
Posts: 54
A recovery contradiction.
Firstly I want to express some real gratitude for everybody (including those people I have yet to meet) involved with 12 step fellowships for providing me with a support network that has empowered my sobriety now for 18 months. I could not have done that on my own and God has worked through all of you.
But I have hit a barrier and am need of some feed back.
Perhaps it is me but I get a sense of contradiction from the whole 12 step recovery programme when it comes to the notion of self.
Now I accept absolutely that my problems stem from my self-centredness but where I am struggling to comprehend things is the role that self plays in my recovery.
I get the whole selfless thing and am striving to achieve that but where does the whole 'be true to your own self' ethos fit into that ? If my self is the problem what is there to the notion that I need to be true to that self ?
Hope I make sense.
I know that I lack self-confidence but do I pray/work at the confidence ? Or do I need to give up even wanting it altogether ?
My sobriety, one day at a time, is not at risk over this but I am desperate to move forward and have done a lot of step work but it is as though I am facing a brick wall and am struggling to know if I have to demolish it or wait for it to be demolished for me.
But I have hit a barrier and am need of some feed back.
Perhaps it is me but I get a sense of contradiction from the whole 12 step recovery programme when it comes to the notion of self.
Now I accept absolutely that my problems stem from my self-centredness but where I am struggling to comprehend things is the role that self plays in my recovery.
I get the whole selfless thing and am striving to achieve that but where does the whole 'be true to your own self' ethos fit into that ? If my self is the problem what is there to the notion that I need to be true to that self ?
Hope I make sense.
I know that I lack self-confidence but do I pray/work at the confidence ? Or do I need to give up even wanting it altogether ?
My sobriety, one day at a time, is not at risk over this but I am desperate to move forward and have done a lot of step work but it is as though I am facing a brick wall and am struggling to know if I have to demolish it or wait for it to be demolished for me.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Cedar Rapids, IA
Posts: 35
Alcoholism is a disease of extremes, our character defects can be healthy defense mechanisms taken to unhealthy extremes.
Yes we are selfish and selfcentered and we need to work on that, but we must also strive to be selfcaring in a healthy way. Because this thing is simple, does not mean it is easy ;-)
Yes we are selfish and selfcentered and we need to work on that, but we must also strive to be selfcaring in a healthy way. Because this thing is simple, does not mean it is easy ;-)
Self recovered Self discovered
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Toronto Canada
Posts: 5,148
The idea of 'ego destruction' is something I struggled to understand too. It was my ego that finally said enough, and that I deserve so much more out of life than what a life of addiction can provide. To believe I could have a life without addiction required that I set my self confidence all the way up to 11. I needed to believe in myself and my natural abilities when that moment came to finally decide to never drink again.
For me, living in contradictions what what led me to alcoholism and then kept me there. It was the repairing of my ego and self confidence that saved my life.
For me, living in contradictions what what led me to alcoholism and then kept me there. It was the repairing of my ego and self confidence that saved my life.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: ON
Posts: 766
I syruggled with this one too alot early on.
I also sturggled with what made me start in the first place.
i can answer that for you if you answer this one for me.
What came first the chicken or the egg.
Stop debating it and let it go. You cant drink, its that easy. Do rationalize, justify or contemplate it.
I also sturggled with what made me start in the first place.
i can answer that for you if you answer this one for me.
What came first the chicken or the egg.
Stop debating it and let it go. You cant drink, its that easy. Do rationalize, justify or contemplate it.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: northern michigan. not the U.P.
Posts: 15,281
'be true to your own self'
I think this goes with " to thine own self be true."
I can lie to everyone around me, but it only hurts me. when I get out of denial and admit/accept a problem, that's when I can work on the solution.
in order to be selfless, I had to be selfish and fix me 1st. I cant transmit something I don't have.
"I know that I lack self-confidence but do I pray/work at the confidence ? Or do I need to give up even wanting it altogether ?"
no, you don't give up! you pray and work on it.
some of the promises of the program:
there has been a revolutionary change in their way of living and thinking.
we became less and less interested in ourselves, our little plans and designs.
More and more we became interested in seeing what we could contribute to life.
We can look the world in the eye.
That feeling of uselessness and self-pity will disappear.
We will lose interest in selfish things and gain interest in our fellows.
Life will take on new meaning.
that's just a few. how do they happen?
Rarely have we seen a person fail who has thoroughly followed our path.
I think this goes with " to thine own self be true."
I can lie to everyone around me, but it only hurts me. when I get out of denial and admit/accept a problem, that's when I can work on the solution.
in order to be selfless, I had to be selfish and fix me 1st. I cant transmit something I don't have.
"I know that I lack self-confidence but do I pray/work at the confidence ? Or do I need to give up even wanting it altogether ?"
no, you don't give up! you pray and work on it.
some of the promises of the program:
there has been a revolutionary change in their way of living and thinking.
we became less and less interested in ourselves, our little plans and designs.
More and more we became interested in seeing what we could contribute to life.
We can look the world in the eye.
That feeling of uselessness and self-pity will disappear.
We will lose interest in selfish things and gain interest in our fellows.
Life will take on new meaning.
that's just a few. how do they happen?
Rarely have we seen a person fail who has thoroughly followed our path.
A Day at a Time
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Grand Rapids MI
Posts: 6,435
The only way I can explain it is to give you an example. You have resentment you are angry. Are you honestly going to look at what your role was in the situation and make amends if necessary?
If you are then you are being true to yourself. If not you are constructing a reality based on your insecurities.
Hopefully this makes sense
If you are then you are being true to yourself. If not you are constructing a reality based on your insecurities.
Hopefully this makes sense
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: London.
Posts: 54
Originally Posted by MIRecovery 
The only way I can explain it is to give you an example. You have resentment you are angry. Are you honestly going to look at what your role was in the situation and make amends if necessary?
If you are then you are being true to yourself. If not you are constructing a reality based on your insecurities.
Hopefully this makes sense
If you are then you are being true to yourself. If not you are constructing a reality based on your insecurities.
Hopefully this makes sense
I want it to make sense
But in that last bit I sense something I need to try and work around. Am I constructing a reality based on my insecurities ? Probably. And the reason I say that is that I am having to face up to just how insecure I feel/am.
Thanks for all the feed back. I cannot sit here and say that I am having any eureka moments but I also know that I have to give time time. Just by being able to ask the question is a start.
First meeting of AA I went into somebody said to me that the good thing about AA was that I would find out about my self. And the bad thing was that I would find out about my self. At the time I dismissed that as trite nonsense but now, it figures in my thoughts every day.
A Day at a Time
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Grand Rapids MI
Posts: 6,435
We did not get sick in a day and we're not going to get better in one either. I am still super man with an inferiority complex. Be thankful that you're even aware of this stuff because that means you're moving forward.
There are some very good fear worksheets available online I think I found one on Hazelton. the worksheet did not help me to be any more secure but at least I knew what I was afraid of which in my case was just about everything.
I keep trudging the road happy destiny maybe someday I'll get there
There are some very good fear worksheets available online I think I found one on Hazelton. the worksheet did not help me to be any more secure but at least I knew what I was afraid of which in my case was just about everything.
I keep trudging the road happy destiny maybe someday I'll get there
Member
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: De
Posts: 1,333
I was taught that it was about balance. I was the walking definition of self will run riot. I had to accept that part of life was things not always going the way I wanted. That's where the 4th step came into play were I could see everything in black and white and begin to work on my defects then learning how to live with me without running back to the alcohol and drugs to escape from it. It all takes time.
Laozi Old Man
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Detroit, MI
Posts: 6,665
Originally Posted by Cormat
I get the whole selfless thing and am striving to achieve that but where does the whole 'be true to your own self' ethos fit into that ? If my self is the problem what is there to the notion that I need to be true to that self ?
"Be true to your own self" means stop lying to yourself. IMO the biggest form of selfishness that I really need to worry about is self-deception. In some Eastern religions Delusional Thinking is the equivalent of Original Sin.
In my recovery inventory work, I ended up finding that the root cause of every single one my character defects was delusional thinking (bar none). In most cases, I was making mountains out of molehills. When I was the one at fault, I was trying to make mountains IN TO molehills. The rest of my resentments were more or less the result of me having unrealistic expectations about how the world should be behaving.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: London.
Posts: 54
Originally Posted by Boleo
This is just one mans opinion on this issue but this one man has gained a lot of experience (and promises) with it.
"Be true to your own self" means stop lying to yourself. IMO the biggest form of selfishness that I really need to worry about is self-deception. In some Eastern religions Delusional Thinking is the equivalent of Original Sin.
In my recovery inventory work, I ended up finding that the root cause of every single one my character defects was delusional thinking (bar none). In most cases, I was making mountains out of molehills. When I was the one at fault, I was trying to make mountains IN TO molehills. The rest of my resentments were more or less the result of me having unrealistic expectations about how the world should be behaving.
"Be true to your own self" means stop lying to yourself. IMO the biggest form of selfishness that I really need to worry about is self-deception. In some Eastern religions Delusional Thinking is the equivalent of Original Sin.
In my recovery inventory work, I ended up finding that the root cause of every single one my character defects was delusional thinking (bar none). In most cases, I was making mountains out of molehills. When I was the one at fault, I was trying to make mountains IN TO molehills. The rest of my resentments were more or less the result of me having unrealistic expectations about how the world should be behaving.
Thanks a lot for that. A lot of food for thought in it. So, and bear with me because I find this stuff difficult to get my head around, essentially I need to stop lieing to and about myself ?
Mini Novel Post Writer
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Maine
Posts: 3,649
Originally Posted by Boleo
This is just one mans opinion on this issue but this one man has gained a lot of experience (and promises) with it.
"Be true to your own self" means stop lying to yourself. IMO the biggest form of selfishness that I really need to worry about is self-deception. In some Eastern religions Delusional Thinking is the equivalent of Original Sin.
In my recovery inventory work, I ended up finding that the root cause of every single one my character defects was delusional thinking (bar none). In most cases, I was making mountains out of molehills. When I was the one at fault, I was trying to make mountains IN TO molehills. The rest of my resentments were more or less the result of me having unrealistic expectations about how the world should be behaving.
"Be true to your own self" means stop lying to yourself. IMO the biggest form of selfishness that I really need to worry about is self-deception. In some Eastern religions Delusional Thinking is the equivalent of Original Sin.
In my recovery inventory work, I ended up finding that the root cause of every single one my character defects was delusional thinking (bar none). In most cases, I was making mountains out of molehills. When I was the one at fault, I was trying to make mountains IN TO molehills. The rest of my resentments were more or less the result of me having unrealistic expectations about how the world should be behaving.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Ohio
Posts: 3,785
For me, it was the act of trying to control everything. I never honestly realized how much I did this until I got sober. I was not physically trying to place people were I wanted them, but mentally I was.
I put people in positions were I needed them or where I thought they should be. Of course all of these people had no clue that I had placed them there or the expectations I had for them. When they did not fulfill my wants and desires, it was their fault and I created a resentment. So, my troubles were my own making. My selfishness and self seeking agenda had created them.
When I stopped doing that and just let the people in my life, be what and who they really were, not what my mind had created, life got much easier.
I had to take all that energy I had used to to move others around and put it on me. Place the focus on myself. I had to look at my motives.
I say to myself, what others think or what others do, is none of my business. I don't say this because I don't care or I am selfish. I say this so I can turn the attention back to me. To thine own self be true. I had to stop having motives but to stop them, I had to see them first.
I put people in positions were I needed them or where I thought they should be. Of course all of these people had no clue that I had placed them there or the expectations I had for them. When they did not fulfill my wants and desires, it was their fault and I created a resentment. So, my troubles were my own making. My selfishness and self seeking agenda had created them.
When I stopped doing that and just let the people in my life, be what and who they really were, not what my mind had created, life got much easier.
I had to take all that energy I had used to to move others around and put it on me. Place the focus on myself. I had to look at my motives.
I say to myself, what others think or what others do, is none of my business. I don't say this because I don't care or I am selfish. I say this so I can turn the attention back to me. To thine own self be true. I had to stop having motives but to stop them, I had to see them first.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: UK
Posts: 5,678
I struggled with this balance too. Coming from a working class background I was brought up not to be over confident and it is something I found I have clung to and was almost proud of. My lack of belief in myself. But then I also see how a lot of my problems are down to self-centeredness. In a way shyness and self hatred is as bad as being over confident and overly pleased with yourself.
Something which made me see it from another angle was listening to a buddhist talk where the speaker said that thinking you are worse than other people is just as bad as thinking you are better than them...
I am working now on just being, without judging myself or others. What I am finding from that is a natural self confidence which isn't dependent on anything. Things just are. I am. That's it. There is nothing really to work at. It is very freeing in a way.
Something which made me see it from another angle was listening to a buddhist talk where the speaker said that thinking you are worse than other people is just as bad as thinking you are better than them...
I am working now on just being, without judging myself or others. What I am finding from that is a natural self confidence which isn't dependent on anything. Things just are. I am. That's it. There is nothing really to work at. It is very freeing in a way.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: London.
Posts: 54
Originally Posted by hypochondriac
Something which made me see it from another angle was listening to a buddhist talk where the speaker said that thinking you are worse than other people is just as bad as thinking you are better than them...
I am working now on just being, without judging myself or others. What I am finding from that is a natural self confidence which isn't dependent on anything. Things just are. I am. That's it. There is nothing really to work at. It is very freeing in a way.
I am working now on just being, without judging myself or others. What I am finding from that is a natural self confidence which isn't dependent on anything. Things just are. I am. That's it. There is nothing really to work at. It is very freeing in a way.
Thank you for that. The part about it being as bad to think yourself worse than other people as thinking yourself better has really hit home.
Heard something today in speaker tape about praying to be given the heart of a servant and that has stopped me in my tracks as well for all sorts of reasons.
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