What happened?
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Fluttering About
Posts: 3,760
What happened?
What Happened?
That question is being asked by a lot of alcoholics lately. What happened to our high success rate? 30 & 40 years ago, we were keeping 75% or more of the alcoholics who came to us for help. Today, we aren’t keeping even 5%. What happened? What happened to that wonderful A.A. Group that was around for 20, 30 or 40 years? There used to be 50, 75, 100 or more at every meeting. It is now a matter of history; gone! More and more groups are folding every day. What happened? We hear a lot of ideas, opinions and excuses as to what happened but things are not improving. They continue to get worse. What is happening?
Bill W. wrote,
“In the years ahead A.A. will, of course, make mistakes. Experience has taught us that we need have no fear of doing this, providing that we always remain willing to admit our faults and to correct them promptly. Our growth as individuals has depended upon this healthy process of trial and error. So will our growth as a fellowship.
Let us always remember that any society of men and women that cannot freely correct its own faults must surely fall into decay if not into collapse. Such is the universal penalty for the failure to go on growing. Just as each A.A. must continue to take his moral inventory and act upon it, so must our whole Society if we are to survive and if we are to serve usefully and well.” (A.A. Comes of Age, pg 231)
With so very few finding lasting sobriety and the continued demise of AA groups, it is obvious that we have not remained willing to admit our faults and to correct them promptly.
Seems to me that the Delegate of the Northeast Ohio Area, Bob Bacon, identified our mistakes and our faults when he talked to a group of AA’s in 1976. He said, in essence, we are no longer showing the newcomer that we have a solution for alcoholism. We are not telling them about the Big Book and how very important that Book is to our long term sobriety. We are not telling them about our Traditions and how very important they are to the individual groups and to Alcoholics Anonymous as a whole. Rather, we are using our meeting time for drunk-a-logs, a discussion of our problems, ideas and opinions or “my day” or “my way”.
Having been around for a few years, and reflecting on what Bob Bacon had to say, it would appear that we have permitted newcomers to convince the old-timers that they had a better idea. They had just spent 30 or more days in a treatment facility where they had been impressed with the need to talk about their problems in Group Therapy Sessions. They had been told that it didn’t make any difference what their real problem was; A.A. had the “best program”. They were told that they should go to an A.A. meeting every day for the 1st 90 days out of treatment. They were told that they shouldn’t make any major decisions for the 1st year of their sobriety. And what they were told goes on and on, most of which are contrary to the Program of Alcoholics Anonymous!
Apparently, what they were told sounded pretty good to the A.A. members who were here when the TC clients began to show up at our meetings. And a lot of the A.A. members liked the idea of the treatment centers because the centers provided a place where they could drop off a serious drinker, if he/she had insurance. That eliminated some of the inconveniences we had been plagued with before; having to pour orange juice and honey or a shot of booze down a vibrating alky to help them “de-tox”.
When A.A. was very successful, the folks who did the talking in meetings were recovered alcoholics. The suffering and untreated alcoholics listened. After hearing what it takes to recover, the newcomer was faced with a decision; “Are you going to take the Steps and recover or are you going to get back out there and finish the job?” If they said they “were willing to go to any length”, they were given a sponsor, a Big Book and began the process of recovery by taking the Steps and experiencing the Promises that result from that course of action. This process kept the newcomer involved in working with others and continued the growth of our Fellowship. Our growth rate was approximately 7% and the number of sober members of Alcoholics Anonymous doubled every 10 years.
With the advent of the rapid growth of the Treatment Industry, the acceptance of our success with alcoholics by the judicial system and endorsement of physicians, psychiatrist, psychologist, etc. all kinds of people were pouring into A.A. at a rate greater than we had ever dreamed possible. Almost without realizing what was happening, our meetings began changing from ones that focused on recovery from alcoholism to “discussion or participation” types of meetings that invited everyone to talk about whatever was on their mind. The meetings evolved from a program of spiritual development to the group therapy type of meeting where we heard more and more about “our problems” and less and less about the Program of Recovery by the Big Book and the preservation of our Fellowship by adhering to our Traditions.
What has been the result of all this? Well, never have we had so many coming to us for help. But never have we had such a slow growth rate which has now started to decline. For the first time in our history, Alcoholics Anonymous is losing members faster than they are coming in and our success rate is unbelievably low. (Statistics from the Inter-Group Office of some major cities indicate less than 5% of those expressing a desire to stop drinking are successful for more than 5 years; a far cry form the 75% reported by Bill W. in the Forward to Second Edition). The change in the content of our meetings is proving to be death-traps for the newcomer and in turn, death-traps for the groups that depend on the “discussion or participation” type meetings.
Why is this? The answer is very simple. When meetings were opened so that untreated alcoholics & non-alcoholics were given the opportunity to express their ideas, their opinions, air their problems and tell how they were told to do it where they came from, the confused newcomer became more confused with the diversity of information that was being presented. More and more they were encouraged to “just go to meetings and don’t drink” or worse yet, “go to 90 meetings in 90 days”. The newcomer no longer was told to take the Steps or get back out there and finish the job. In fact, they are often told, “Don’t rush into taking the Steps. Take your time.” The alcoholics who participated in the writing of the Big Book didn’t wait. They took the Steps in the first few days following their last drink Thank God, there are those in our Fellowship, like Joe & Charlie, Wally, etc., who have recognized the problem and have started doing something about it. They are placing the focus back on the Big Book.
There have always been a few groups that would not yield to the group therapy trend. They stayed firm to their commitment to try to carry a single message to the suffering alcoholic. That is to tell the newcomer that “we have had a spiritual awakening as the result of these Steps and if you want to recover, we will see that you have a sponsor who has recovered and will lead you along the path the 1st 100 laid down for us”. Thank God / Higher Power.
Recovered alcoholics have begun founding groups that have a single purpose and inform the newcomer that until they have taken the steps and recovered, they will not be permitted to say anything in meetings.
They will listen to recovered alcoholics, they will take the Steps, they will recover and then they will try to pass their experience and knowledge on to the ones who are seeking the kind of help we provide in Alcoholics Anonymous. As this movement spreads, as it is beginning to, Alcoholics Anonymous will again be very successful in doing the one thing God intended for us to do and that is to help the suffering alcoholic recover, if he has decided he wants what we have and is willing to go to any length to recover, to take and apply our Twelve Steps to our lives and protect our Fellowship by honoring our Twelve Traditions.
There is a tendency to want to place the blame for our predicament on the treatment industry and professionals. They do what they do and it has nothing to do with what we in Alcoholics Anonymous do. That is their business. That is not where to place the blame and also is in violation of our Tenth Tradition. The real problem is that the members of Alcoholics Anonymous, who were here when the “clients” began coming to our Fellowship did not help the “clients” understand that our Program had been firmly established since April 1939. And that the guidelines for the preservation and growth of our Fellowship were adopted in 1950. That they must get rid of their new “old ideas” and start practicing the Twelve Step Program of Alcoholics Anonymous as it was given to us. That until they had taken the Steps and recovered, they had nothing to say that needed to be heard except by their sponsor. But that didn’t happen.
To the contrary, the old timers failed in their responsibility to the newcomer to remind them of a vital truth, “Rarely have we seen a person fail who has thoroughly followed our path. Those who do not recover are people who cannot or will not completely give themselves to this simple program.” We have permitted untreated alcoholics and non-alcoholics to sit in our meetings and lay out their problems, ideas and opinions. We have gone from, “Rarely have we seen a person fail” to “Seldom do we see a person recover”. So there we are. We have had 30 years of unbelievable success by following the directions in the Big Book. We have had 30 years of disappointing failure by wanting to hear from everyone. We now have something to compare.
We now know what the problem is and we know what the solution is. Unfortunately, we have not been prompt to correct the faults and mistakes which have been created by what would appear to be large doses of apathy and complacency. The problem we are trying to live with is needlessly killing alcoholics. The Solution? The Power, greater than ourselves, that we find through our Twelve Steps promises recovery for those who are willing to follow the clear-cut directions in the Big Book. Do you want to be a part of the problem or a part of the solution? Simple, but not easy; A price has to be paid.
Cliff B.
That question is being asked by a lot of alcoholics lately. What happened to our high success rate? 30 & 40 years ago, we were keeping 75% or more of the alcoholics who came to us for help. Today, we aren’t keeping even 5%. What happened? What happened to that wonderful A.A. Group that was around for 20, 30 or 40 years? There used to be 50, 75, 100 or more at every meeting. It is now a matter of history; gone! More and more groups are folding every day. What happened? We hear a lot of ideas, opinions and excuses as to what happened but things are not improving. They continue to get worse. What is happening?
Bill W. wrote,
“In the years ahead A.A. will, of course, make mistakes. Experience has taught us that we need have no fear of doing this, providing that we always remain willing to admit our faults and to correct them promptly. Our growth as individuals has depended upon this healthy process of trial and error. So will our growth as a fellowship.
Let us always remember that any society of men and women that cannot freely correct its own faults must surely fall into decay if not into collapse. Such is the universal penalty for the failure to go on growing. Just as each A.A. must continue to take his moral inventory and act upon it, so must our whole Society if we are to survive and if we are to serve usefully and well.” (A.A. Comes of Age, pg 231)
With so very few finding lasting sobriety and the continued demise of AA groups, it is obvious that we have not remained willing to admit our faults and to correct them promptly.
Seems to me that the Delegate of the Northeast Ohio Area, Bob Bacon, identified our mistakes and our faults when he talked to a group of AA’s in 1976. He said, in essence, we are no longer showing the newcomer that we have a solution for alcoholism. We are not telling them about the Big Book and how very important that Book is to our long term sobriety. We are not telling them about our Traditions and how very important they are to the individual groups and to Alcoholics Anonymous as a whole. Rather, we are using our meeting time for drunk-a-logs, a discussion of our problems, ideas and opinions or “my day” or “my way”.
Having been around for a few years, and reflecting on what Bob Bacon had to say, it would appear that we have permitted newcomers to convince the old-timers that they had a better idea. They had just spent 30 or more days in a treatment facility where they had been impressed with the need to talk about their problems in Group Therapy Sessions. They had been told that it didn’t make any difference what their real problem was; A.A. had the “best program”. They were told that they should go to an A.A. meeting every day for the 1st 90 days out of treatment. They were told that they shouldn’t make any major decisions for the 1st year of their sobriety. And what they were told goes on and on, most of which are contrary to the Program of Alcoholics Anonymous!
Apparently, what they were told sounded pretty good to the A.A. members who were here when the TC clients began to show up at our meetings. And a lot of the A.A. members liked the idea of the treatment centers because the centers provided a place where they could drop off a serious drinker, if he/she had insurance. That eliminated some of the inconveniences we had been plagued with before; having to pour orange juice and honey or a shot of booze down a vibrating alky to help them “de-tox”.
When A.A. was very successful, the folks who did the talking in meetings were recovered alcoholics. The suffering and untreated alcoholics listened. After hearing what it takes to recover, the newcomer was faced with a decision; “Are you going to take the Steps and recover or are you going to get back out there and finish the job?” If they said they “were willing to go to any length”, they were given a sponsor, a Big Book and began the process of recovery by taking the Steps and experiencing the Promises that result from that course of action. This process kept the newcomer involved in working with others and continued the growth of our Fellowship. Our growth rate was approximately 7% and the number of sober members of Alcoholics Anonymous doubled every 10 years.
With the advent of the rapid growth of the Treatment Industry, the acceptance of our success with alcoholics by the judicial system and endorsement of physicians, psychiatrist, psychologist, etc. all kinds of people were pouring into A.A. at a rate greater than we had ever dreamed possible. Almost without realizing what was happening, our meetings began changing from ones that focused on recovery from alcoholism to “discussion or participation” types of meetings that invited everyone to talk about whatever was on their mind. The meetings evolved from a program of spiritual development to the group therapy type of meeting where we heard more and more about “our problems” and less and less about the Program of Recovery by the Big Book and the preservation of our Fellowship by adhering to our Traditions.
What has been the result of all this? Well, never have we had so many coming to us for help. But never have we had such a slow growth rate which has now started to decline. For the first time in our history, Alcoholics Anonymous is losing members faster than they are coming in and our success rate is unbelievably low. (Statistics from the Inter-Group Office of some major cities indicate less than 5% of those expressing a desire to stop drinking are successful for more than 5 years; a far cry form the 75% reported by Bill W. in the Forward to Second Edition). The change in the content of our meetings is proving to be death-traps for the newcomer and in turn, death-traps for the groups that depend on the “discussion or participation” type meetings.
Why is this? The answer is very simple. When meetings were opened so that untreated alcoholics & non-alcoholics were given the opportunity to express their ideas, their opinions, air their problems and tell how they were told to do it where they came from, the confused newcomer became more confused with the diversity of information that was being presented. More and more they were encouraged to “just go to meetings and don’t drink” or worse yet, “go to 90 meetings in 90 days”. The newcomer no longer was told to take the Steps or get back out there and finish the job. In fact, they are often told, “Don’t rush into taking the Steps. Take your time.” The alcoholics who participated in the writing of the Big Book didn’t wait. They took the Steps in the first few days following their last drink Thank God, there are those in our Fellowship, like Joe & Charlie, Wally, etc., who have recognized the problem and have started doing something about it. They are placing the focus back on the Big Book.
There have always been a few groups that would not yield to the group therapy trend. They stayed firm to their commitment to try to carry a single message to the suffering alcoholic. That is to tell the newcomer that “we have had a spiritual awakening as the result of these Steps and if you want to recover, we will see that you have a sponsor who has recovered and will lead you along the path the 1st 100 laid down for us”. Thank God / Higher Power.
Recovered alcoholics have begun founding groups that have a single purpose and inform the newcomer that until they have taken the steps and recovered, they will not be permitted to say anything in meetings.
They will listen to recovered alcoholics, they will take the Steps, they will recover and then they will try to pass their experience and knowledge on to the ones who are seeking the kind of help we provide in Alcoholics Anonymous. As this movement spreads, as it is beginning to, Alcoholics Anonymous will again be very successful in doing the one thing God intended for us to do and that is to help the suffering alcoholic recover, if he has decided he wants what we have and is willing to go to any length to recover, to take and apply our Twelve Steps to our lives and protect our Fellowship by honoring our Twelve Traditions.
There is a tendency to want to place the blame for our predicament on the treatment industry and professionals. They do what they do and it has nothing to do with what we in Alcoholics Anonymous do. That is their business. That is not where to place the blame and also is in violation of our Tenth Tradition. The real problem is that the members of Alcoholics Anonymous, who were here when the “clients” began coming to our Fellowship did not help the “clients” understand that our Program had been firmly established since April 1939. And that the guidelines for the preservation and growth of our Fellowship were adopted in 1950. That they must get rid of their new “old ideas” and start practicing the Twelve Step Program of Alcoholics Anonymous as it was given to us. That until they had taken the Steps and recovered, they had nothing to say that needed to be heard except by their sponsor. But that didn’t happen.
To the contrary, the old timers failed in their responsibility to the newcomer to remind them of a vital truth, “Rarely have we seen a person fail who has thoroughly followed our path. Those who do not recover are people who cannot or will not completely give themselves to this simple program.” We have permitted untreated alcoholics and non-alcoholics to sit in our meetings and lay out their problems, ideas and opinions. We have gone from, “Rarely have we seen a person fail” to “Seldom do we see a person recover”. So there we are. We have had 30 years of unbelievable success by following the directions in the Big Book. We have had 30 years of disappointing failure by wanting to hear from everyone. We now have something to compare.
We now know what the problem is and we know what the solution is. Unfortunately, we have not been prompt to correct the faults and mistakes which have been created by what would appear to be large doses of apathy and complacency. The problem we are trying to live with is needlessly killing alcoholics. The Solution? The Power, greater than ourselves, that we find through our Twelve Steps promises recovery for those who are willing to follow the clear-cut directions in the Big Book. Do you want to be a part of the problem or a part of the solution? Simple, but not easy; A price has to be paid.
Cliff B.
Sober Alcoholic
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 3,539
This short article by Dr. Bob seems appropriate here.
ON CULTIVATING TOLERANCE
By Dr. Bob Smith
July 1944, AA Grapevine
During nine years in AA, I have observed that those who follow the Alcoholics Anonymous program with the greatest earnestness and zeal not only maintain sobriety but often acquire finer characteristics and attitudes as well. One of these is tolerance.
Tolerance expresses itself in a variety of ways: in kindness and consideration toward the man or woman who is just beginning the march along the spiritual path; in the understanding of those who perhaps have been less fortunate in education advantages; and in sympathy toward those whose religious ideas may seem to be at great variance with our own.
I am reminded in this connection of the picture of a hub with its radiating spokes. We all start at the outer circumference and approach our destination by one of many routes. To say that one spoke is much better than all the other spokes is true only in the sense of its being best suited to you as an individual. Human nature is such that without some degree of tolerance, each one of us might be inclined to believe that we have found the best or perhaps the shortest spoke. Without some tolerance, we might tend to become a bit smug or superior - which, of course, is not helpful to the person we are trying to help and may be quite painful or obnoxious to others. No one of us wishes to do anything that might act as a deterrent to the advancement of another - and a patronizing attitude can readily slow up this process.
Tolerance furnishes, as a by-product, a greater freedom from the tendency to cling to preconceived ideas and stubbornly adhered-to opinions. In other words, it often promotes an open-mindedness that is vastly important - is, in fact, a prerequisite to the successful termination of any line of search, whether it be scientific or spiritual.
These, then, are a few of the reasons why an attempt to acquire tolerance should be made by each one of us.
ON CULTIVATING TOLERANCE
By Dr. Bob Smith
July 1944, AA Grapevine
During nine years in AA, I have observed that those who follow the Alcoholics Anonymous program with the greatest earnestness and zeal not only maintain sobriety but often acquire finer characteristics and attitudes as well. One of these is tolerance.
Tolerance expresses itself in a variety of ways: in kindness and consideration toward the man or woman who is just beginning the march along the spiritual path; in the understanding of those who perhaps have been less fortunate in education advantages; and in sympathy toward those whose religious ideas may seem to be at great variance with our own.
I am reminded in this connection of the picture of a hub with its radiating spokes. We all start at the outer circumference and approach our destination by one of many routes. To say that one spoke is much better than all the other spokes is true only in the sense of its being best suited to you as an individual. Human nature is such that without some degree of tolerance, each one of us might be inclined to believe that we have found the best or perhaps the shortest spoke. Without some tolerance, we might tend to become a bit smug or superior - which, of course, is not helpful to the person we are trying to help and may be quite painful or obnoxious to others. No one of us wishes to do anything that might act as a deterrent to the advancement of another - and a patronizing attitude can readily slow up this process.
Tolerance furnishes, as a by-product, a greater freedom from the tendency to cling to preconceived ideas and stubbornly adhered-to opinions. In other words, it often promotes an open-mindedness that is vastly important - is, in fact, a prerequisite to the successful termination of any line of search, whether it be scientific or spiritual.
These, then, are a few of the reasons why an attempt to acquire tolerance should be made by each one of us.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Living in Today!
Posts: 3,945
Originally Posted by Fluttering 
What Happened?
That question is being asked by a lot of alcoholics lately. What happened to our high success rate? 30 & 40 years ago, we were keeping 75% or more of the alcoholics who came to us for help. Today, we aren’t keeping even 5%. What happened? What happened to that wonderful A.A. Group that was around for 20, 30 or 40 years? There used to be 50, 75, 100 or more at every meeting. It is now a matter of history; gone! More and more groups are folding every day. What happened? We hear a lot of ideas, opinions and excuses as to what happened but things are not improving. They continue to get worse. What is happening?
Bill W. wrote,
“In the years ahead A.A. will, of course, make mistakes. Experience has taught us that we need have no fear of doing this, providing that we always remain willing to admit our faults and to correct them promptly. Our growth as individuals has depended upon this healthy process of trial and error. So will our growth as a fellowship.
Let us always remember that any society of men and women that cannot freely correct its own faults must surely fall into decay if not into collapse. Such is the universal penalty for the failure to go on growing. Just as each A.A. must continue to take his moral inventory and act upon it, so must our whole Society if we are to survive and if we are to serve usefully and well.” (A.A. Comes of Age, pg 231)
With so very few finding lasting sobriety and the continued demise of AA groups, it is obvious that we have not remained willing to admit our faults and to correct them promptly.
Seems to me that the Delegate of the Northeast Ohio Area, Bob Bacon, identified our mistakes and our faults when he talked to a group of AA’s in 1976. He said, in essence, we are no longer showing the newcomer that we have a solution for alcoholism. We are not telling them about the Big Book and how very important that Book is to our long term sobriety. We are not telling them about our Traditions and how very important they are to the individual groups and to Alcoholics Anonymous as a whole. Rather, we are using our meeting time for drunk-a-logs, a discussion of our problems, ideas and opinions or “my day” or “my way”.
Having been around for a few years, and reflecting on what Bob Bacon had to say, it would appear that we have permitted newcomers to convince the old-timers that they had a better idea. They had just spent 30 or more days in a treatment facility where they had been impressed with the need to talk about their problems in Group Therapy Sessions. They had been told that it didn’t make any difference what their real problem was; A.A. had the “best program”. They were told that they should go to an A.A. meeting every day for the 1st 90 days out of treatment. They were told that they shouldn’t make any major decisions for the 1st year of their sobriety. And what they were told goes on and on, most of which are contrary to the Program of Alcoholics Anonymous!
Apparently, what they were told sounded pretty good to the A.A. members who were here when the TC clients began to show up at our meetings. And a lot of the A.A. members liked the idea of the treatment centers because the centers provided a place where they could drop off a serious drinker, if he/she had insurance. That eliminated some of the inconveniences we had been plagued with before; having to pour orange juice and honey or a shot of booze down a vibrating alky to help them “de-tox”.
When A.A. was very successful, the folks who did the talking in meetings were recovered alcoholics. The suffering and untreated alcoholics listened. After hearing what it takes to recover, the newcomer was faced with a decision; “Are you going to take the Steps and recover or are you going to get back out there and finish the job?” If they said they “were willing to go to any length”, they were given a sponsor, a Big Book and began the process of recovery by taking the Steps and experiencing the Promises that result from that course of action. This process kept the newcomer involved in working with others and continued the growth of our Fellowship. Our growth rate was approximately 7% and the number of sober members of Alcoholics Anonymous doubled every 10 years.
With the advent of the rapid growth of the Treatment Industry, the acceptance of our success with alcoholics by the judicial system and endorsement of physicians, psychiatrist, psychologist, etc. all kinds of people were pouring into A.A. at a rate greater than we had ever dreamed possible. Almost without realizing what was happening, our meetings began changing from ones that focused on recovery from alcoholism to “discussion or participation” types of meetings that invited everyone to talk about whatever was on their mind. The meetings evolved from a program of spiritual development to the group therapy type of meeting where we heard more and more about “our problems” and less and less about the Program of Recovery by the Big Book and the preservation of our Fellowship by adhering to our Traditions.
What has been the result of all this? Well, never have we had so many coming to us for help. But never have we had such a slow growth rate which has now started to decline. For the first time in our history, Alcoholics Anonymous is losing members faster than they are coming in and our success rate is unbelievably low. (Statistics from the Inter-Group Office of some major cities indicate less than 5% of those expressing a desire to stop drinking are successful for more than 5 years; a far cry form the 75% reported by Bill W. in the Forward to Second Edition). The change in the content of our meetings is proving to be death-traps for the newcomer and in turn, death-traps for the groups that depend on the “discussion or participation” type meetings.
Why is this? The answer is very simple. When meetings were opened so that untreated alcoholics & non-alcoholics were given the opportunity to express their ideas, their opinions, air their problems and tell how they were told to do it where they came from, the confused newcomer became more confused with the diversity of information that was being presented. More and more they were encouraged to “just go to meetings and don’t drink” or worse yet, “go to 90 meetings in 90 days”. The newcomer no longer was told to take the Steps or get back out there and finish the job. In fact, they are often told, “Don’t rush into taking the Steps. Take your time.” The alcoholics who participated in the writing of the Big Book didn’t wait. They took the Steps in the first few days following their last drink Thank God, there are those in our Fellowship, like Joe & Charlie, Wally, etc., who have recognized the problem and have started doing something about it. They are placing the focus back on the Big Book.
There have always been a few groups that would not yield to the group therapy trend. They stayed firm to their commitment to try to carry a single message to the suffering alcoholic. That is to tell the newcomer that “we have had a spiritual awakening as the result of these Steps and if you want to recover, we will see that you have a sponsor who has recovered and will lead you along the path the 1st 100 laid down for us”. Thank God / Higher Power.
Recovered alcoholics have begun founding groups that have a single purpose and inform the newcomer that until they have taken the steps and recovered, they will not be permitted to say anything in meetings.
They will listen to recovered alcoholics, they will take the Steps, they will recover and then they will try to pass their experience and knowledge on to the ones who are seeking the kind of help we provide in Alcoholics Anonymous. As this movement spreads, as it is beginning to, Alcoholics Anonymous will again be very successful in doing the one thing God intended for us to do and that is to help the suffering alcoholic recover, if he has decided he wants what we have and is willing to go to any length to recover, to take and apply our Twelve Steps to our lives and protect our Fellowship by honoring our Twelve Traditions.
There is a tendency to want to place the blame for our predicament on the treatment industry and professionals. They do what they do and it has nothing to do with what we in Alcoholics Anonymous do. That is their business. That is not where to place the blame and also is in violation of our Tenth Tradition. The real problem is that the members of Alcoholics Anonymous, who were here when the “clients” began coming to our Fellowship did not help the “clients” understand that our Program had been firmly established since April 1939. And that the guidelines for the preservation and growth of our Fellowship were adopted in 1950. That they must get rid of their new “old ideas” and start practicing the Twelve Step Program of Alcoholics Anonymous as it was given to us. That until they had taken the Steps and recovered, they had nothing to say that needed to be heard except by their sponsor. But that didn’t happen.
To the contrary, the old timers failed in their responsibility to the newcomer to remind them of a vital truth, “Rarely have we seen a person fail who has thoroughly followed our path. Those who do not recover are people who cannot or will not completely give themselves to this simple program.” We have permitted untreated alcoholics and non-alcoholics to sit in our meetings and lay out their problems, ideas and opinions. We have gone from, “Rarely have we seen a person fail” to “Seldom do we see a person recover”. So there we are. We have had 30 years of unbelievable success by following the directions in the Big Book. We have had 30 years of disappointing failure by wanting to hear from everyone. We now have something to compare.
We now know what the problem is and we know what the solution is. Unfortunately, we have not been prompt to correct the faults and mistakes which have been created by what would appear to be large doses of apathy and complacency. The problem we are trying to live with is needlessly killing alcoholics. The Solution? The Power, greater than ourselves, that we find through our Twelve Steps promises recovery for those who are willing to follow the clear-cut directions in the Big Book. Do you want to be a part of the problem or a part of the solution? Simple, but not easy; A price has to be paid.
Cliff B.
That question is being asked by a lot of alcoholics lately. What happened to our high success rate? 30 & 40 years ago, we were keeping 75% or more of the alcoholics who came to us for help. Today, we aren’t keeping even 5%. What happened? What happened to that wonderful A.A. Group that was around for 20, 30 or 40 years? There used to be 50, 75, 100 or more at every meeting. It is now a matter of history; gone! More and more groups are folding every day. What happened? We hear a lot of ideas, opinions and excuses as to what happened but things are not improving. They continue to get worse. What is happening?
Bill W. wrote,
“In the years ahead A.A. will, of course, make mistakes. Experience has taught us that we need have no fear of doing this, providing that we always remain willing to admit our faults and to correct them promptly. Our growth as individuals has depended upon this healthy process of trial and error. So will our growth as a fellowship.
Let us always remember that any society of men and women that cannot freely correct its own faults must surely fall into decay if not into collapse. Such is the universal penalty for the failure to go on growing. Just as each A.A. must continue to take his moral inventory and act upon it, so must our whole Society if we are to survive and if we are to serve usefully and well.” (A.A. Comes of Age, pg 231)
With so very few finding lasting sobriety and the continued demise of AA groups, it is obvious that we have not remained willing to admit our faults and to correct them promptly.
Seems to me that the Delegate of the Northeast Ohio Area, Bob Bacon, identified our mistakes and our faults when he talked to a group of AA’s in 1976. He said, in essence, we are no longer showing the newcomer that we have a solution for alcoholism. We are not telling them about the Big Book and how very important that Book is to our long term sobriety. We are not telling them about our Traditions and how very important they are to the individual groups and to Alcoholics Anonymous as a whole. Rather, we are using our meeting time for drunk-a-logs, a discussion of our problems, ideas and opinions or “my day” or “my way”.
Having been around for a few years, and reflecting on what Bob Bacon had to say, it would appear that we have permitted newcomers to convince the old-timers that they had a better idea. They had just spent 30 or more days in a treatment facility where they had been impressed with the need to talk about their problems in Group Therapy Sessions. They had been told that it didn’t make any difference what their real problem was; A.A. had the “best program”. They were told that they should go to an A.A. meeting every day for the 1st 90 days out of treatment. They were told that they shouldn’t make any major decisions for the 1st year of their sobriety. And what they were told goes on and on, most of which are contrary to the Program of Alcoholics Anonymous!
Apparently, what they were told sounded pretty good to the A.A. members who were here when the TC clients began to show up at our meetings. And a lot of the A.A. members liked the idea of the treatment centers because the centers provided a place where they could drop off a serious drinker, if he/she had insurance. That eliminated some of the inconveniences we had been plagued with before; having to pour orange juice and honey or a shot of booze down a vibrating alky to help them “de-tox”.
When A.A. was very successful, the folks who did the talking in meetings were recovered alcoholics. The suffering and untreated alcoholics listened. After hearing what it takes to recover, the newcomer was faced with a decision; “Are you going to take the Steps and recover or are you going to get back out there and finish the job?” If they said they “were willing to go to any length”, they were given a sponsor, a Big Book and began the process of recovery by taking the Steps and experiencing the Promises that result from that course of action. This process kept the newcomer involved in working with others and continued the growth of our Fellowship. Our growth rate was approximately 7% and the number of sober members of Alcoholics Anonymous doubled every 10 years.
With the advent of the rapid growth of the Treatment Industry, the acceptance of our success with alcoholics by the judicial system and endorsement of physicians, psychiatrist, psychologist, etc. all kinds of people were pouring into A.A. at a rate greater than we had ever dreamed possible. Almost without realizing what was happening, our meetings began changing from ones that focused on recovery from alcoholism to “discussion or participation” types of meetings that invited everyone to talk about whatever was on their mind. The meetings evolved from a program of spiritual development to the group therapy type of meeting where we heard more and more about “our problems” and less and less about the Program of Recovery by the Big Book and the preservation of our Fellowship by adhering to our Traditions.
What has been the result of all this? Well, never have we had so many coming to us for help. But never have we had such a slow growth rate which has now started to decline. For the first time in our history, Alcoholics Anonymous is losing members faster than they are coming in and our success rate is unbelievably low. (Statistics from the Inter-Group Office of some major cities indicate less than 5% of those expressing a desire to stop drinking are successful for more than 5 years; a far cry form the 75% reported by Bill W. in the Forward to Second Edition). The change in the content of our meetings is proving to be death-traps for the newcomer and in turn, death-traps for the groups that depend on the “discussion or participation” type meetings.
Why is this? The answer is very simple. When meetings were opened so that untreated alcoholics & non-alcoholics were given the opportunity to express their ideas, their opinions, air their problems and tell how they were told to do it where they came from, the confused newcomer became more confused with the diversity of information that was being presented. More and more they were encouraged to “just go to meetings and don’t drink” or worse yet, “go to 90 meetings in 90 days”. The newcomer no longer was told to take the Steps or get back out there and finish the job. In fact, they are often told, “Don’t rush into taking the Steps. Take your time.” The alcoholics who participated in the writing of the Big Book didn’t wait. They took the Steps in the first few days following their last drink Thank God, there are those in our Fellowship, like Joe & Charlie, Wally, etc., who have recognized the problem and have started doing something about it. They are placing the focus back on the Big Book.
There have always been a few groups that would not yield to the group therapy trend. They stayed firm to their commitment to try to carry a single message to the suffering alcoholic. That is to tell the newcomer that “we have had a spiritual awakening as the result of these Steps and if you want to recover, we will see that you have a sponsor who has recovered and will lead you along the path the 1st 100 laid down for us”. Thank God / Higher Power.
Recovered alcoholics have begun founding groups that have a single purpose and inform the newcomer that until they have taken the steps and recovered, they will not be permitted to say anything in meetings.
They will listen to recovered alcoholics, they will take the Steps, they will recover and then they will try to pass their experience and knowledge on to the ones who are seeking the kind of help we provide in Alcoholics Anonymous. As this movement spreads, as it is beginning to, Alcoholics Anonymous will again be very successful in doing the one thing God intended for us to do and that is to help the suffering alcoholic recover, if he has decided he wants what we have and is willing to go to any length to recover, to take and apply our Twelve Steps to our lives and protect our Fellowship by honoring our Twelve Traditions.
There is a tendency to want to place the blame for our predicament on the treatment industry and professionals. They do what they do and it has nothing to do with what we in Alcoholics Anonymous do. That is their business. That is not where to place the blame and also is in violation of our Tenth Tradition. The real problem is that the members of Alcoholics Anonymous, who were here when the “clients” began coming to our Fellowship did not help the “clients” understand that our Program had been firmly established since April 1939. And that the guidelines for the preservation and growth of our Fellowship were adopted in 1950. That they must get rid of their new “old ideas” and start practicing the Twelve Step Program of Alcoholics Anonymous as it was given to us. That until they had taken the Steps and recovered, they had nothing to say that needed to be heard except by their sponsor. But that didn’t happen.
To the contrary, the old timers failed in their responsibility to the newcomer to remind them of a vital truth, “Rarely have we seen a person fail who has thoroughly followed our path. Those who do not recover are people who cannot or will not completely give themselves to this simple program.” We have permitted untreated alcoholics and non-alcoholics to sit in our meetings and lay out their problems, ideas and opinions. We have gone from, “Rarely have we seen a person fail” to “Seldom do we see a person recover”. So there we are. We have had 30 years of unbelievable success by following the directions in the Big Book. We have had 30 years of disappointing failure by wanting to hear from everyone. We now have something to compare.
We now know what the problem is and we know what the solution is. Unfortunately, we have not been prompt to correct the faults and mistakes which have been created by what would appear to be large doses of apathy and complacency. The problem we are trying to live with is needlessly killing alcoholics. The Solution? The Power, greater than ourselves, that we find through our Twelve Steps promises recovery for those who are willing to follow the clear-cut directions in the Big Book. Do you want to be a part of the problem or a part of the solution? Simple, but not easy; A price has to be paid.
Cliff B.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Severance Colorado
Posts: 150
What happened to our high success rate? 30 & 40 years ago, we were keeping 75% or more of the alcoholics who came to us for help. Today, we aren’t keeping even 5%. What happened?
The statement in the forward to the second edition, Pg.XX, says that "Of those that came to AA and really tried, 50% got sober at once, 25% got sober after a couple relapses and the remaining 25% showed improvement. I haven't got a clue what "showed improvement means That's another discussion for another day. But the number is 75% getting sober.
I firmly believe those numbers hold true to this day. I believe that of those that really try 50% get sober at once and 25% get sober after a couple relapses. The other 25% show improvement. Whatever that means. What we skim over is the part where it says of those who really try. Going to meetings is not "really trying". Unfortunately that's what AA has become to some, if not most. Most people don't really try. If an AA Member can state that he has taken steps one through nine to the best of his ability and lives his life in steps ten through twelve, they'll find themselves in the minority. If one can state that his/her main concern is helping another alcoholic to recover and accepts his/her own sobriety as a byproduct of this life he/she leads, they're in the minority. If one can honestly admit that meetings are only a small fraction of his/her AA involvement, they're outnumbered. To me, this is what is meant by "Really Try". The real question is that at what point does the failure of those that simply come to AA to sit in meetings and drink coffee become my fault? Because at some point, it is.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Fluttering About
Posts: 3,760
Thank You for your thoughtful and insightful responses
also thank you Dee for for merging posts to keep us on track
Thank You all for journeying with me
This truly is an awesome journey
To anyone struggling..Try to see the tuff spots as stepping stones to spiritual growth and Please Please don't quit before the miracle happens.
also thank you Dee for for merging posts to keep us on track
Thank You all for journeying with me
This truly is an awesome journey
To anyone struggling..Try to see the tuff spots as stepping stones to spiritual growth and Please Please don't quit before the miracle happens.
non-drinker
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Milwaukee, Wisconsin, USA
Posts: 13,846
No amount of available programs, no amount of horror stories, no amount of lecturing was gonna get me sober until I was ready to surrender. I think that's true of most alcoholics. Thank goodness there are many options out there for us when we're ready. I believe we have to do that which gives us the best chance to stay sober.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Bethlehem, PA.
Posts: 1,781
If AA only got the highly motivated group that had reached the point where the pain of drinking greatly outweighed the pleasure they'd have a 100% success rate. That group tho would probably have quit one way or another.
I wonder if you could look at what brought the person to AA and predict with some degree of accuracy what their chances of success were. Courts, family or job pressure, lost drivers license, recomendations from rehabs and medical professionals, etc. etc., those things say nothing of the persons desire to stop for good. Those people could be using AA to roller skate their way through some hot water. You may turn a few of those around but you are going to have a high failure rate, no way around that.
I wonder if you could look at what brought the person to AA and predict with some degree of accuracy what their chances of success were. Courts, family or job pressure, lost drivers license, recomendations from rehabs and medical professionals, etc. etc., those things say nothing of the persons desire to stop for good. Those people could be using AA to roller skate their way through some hot water. You may turn a few of those around but you are going to have a high failure rate, no way around that.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: C.C. Ma.
Posts: 3,697
I believe that people in general and alcoholics in particular look for the softest easiest way for many things. For example these on line forums, though quite informative scare me if it's all people do for their recovery, get some advise from someone at the end of a wire and think life is great and if I relapse I'll come back. Recovery is work and as a speaker years ago said "there are a lot of people around but not enough IN AA. How many after many meetings know what the preamble says, What are the Traditions, what's a 12 step call? And on and on. I better stop as I'll need a pressure pill. THANKS AND BE WELL
Grateful to be free
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Arizona
Posts: 3,680
I can see the point of this, and a lot of truth and wisdom in it.
In TV and movies I have seen AA portrayed as a support group more than as a place to learn the steps to recovery. I've never seen a meeting portrayed where people are reading or discussing the BB or steps. I would guess that many people do come in thinking they are going to have to stand up, introduce themselves and confess their experience as a drinker "as seen on TV"
Then when someone tells them the program IS the steps and they need to get busy, there is often the "hey wait, don't try to push me into something. I want time to investigate" and that time can become "infinity".
If the majority of meetings were BB study meetings, literature meetings, then it would weed out a lot of people from the get go. People who stuck around would get busy, and most likely the recovery success rate would go back up.
I don't think there is anything wrong with that. No group needs to be everything to everyone, hence AA's primary purpose. Lots of people won't like it, will say they didn't feel welcome, that AA is a cult...toe the line or else. Etc etc. But if AA is about passing on the steps as the way to recover then those things don't really matter, because AA is being true to it's mission.
I personally feel that it IS the right of any group or organization to set the mission and standards for itself and it's members. And if people don't feel they can or will follow those they are welcome to go elsewhere. They do that in sports and people are fine with it. They do it in schools and people are fine with it. There are rules, expectations and requirements. That isn't something to be ashamed of or make apologies for.
I am not against there being a network of support meetings for recovering alcoholics, sort of a face to face SR. Not a bad idea, but AA doesn't have to be the organization that houses those.
For the record,I have "tried" AA, and for various reasons found it was not the appropriate group for me. I have worked the 12 steps through other fellowships.
In TV and movies I have seen AA portrayed as a support group more than as a place to learn the steps to recovery. I've never seen a meeting portrayed where people are reading or discussing the BB or steps. I would guess that many people do come in thinking they are going to have to stand up, introduce themselves and confess their experience as a drinker "as seen on TV"
Then when someone tells them the program IS the steps and they need to get busy, there is often the "hey wait, don't try to push me into something. I want time to investigate" and that time can become "infinity".
If the majority of meetings were BB study meetings, literature meetings, then it would weed out a lot of people from the get go. People who stuck around would get busy, and most likely the recovery success rate would go back up.
I don't think there is anything wrong with that. No group needs to be everything to everyone, hence AA's primary purpose. Lots of people won't like it, will say they didn't feel welcome, that AA is a cult...toe the line or else. Etc etc. But if AA is about passing on the steps as the way to recover then those things don't really matter, because AA is being true to it's mission.
I personally feel that it IS the right of any group or organization to set the mission and standards for itself and it's members. And if people don't feel they can or will follow those they are welcome to go elsewhere. They do that in sports and people are fine with it. They do it in schools and people are fine with it. There are rules, expectations and requirements. That isn't something to be ashamed of or make apologies for.
I am not against there being a network of support meetings for recovering alcoholics, sort of a face to face SR. Not a bad idea, but AA doesn't have to be the organization that houses those.
For the record,I have "tried" AA, and for various reasons found it was not the appropriate group for me. I have worked the 12 steps through other fellowships.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: De
Posts: 1,333
Been around since 1977 and no where near 75% of those who came into the rooms stuck around. Since we don't take attendance, keep meeting minutes, or even have sign up sheets, success rates are pure conjecture.
I do recall hearing the same complaints that AA's not what it used to be, the message being diluted, people doing what there not supposed to be doing, etc., etc.. But The number of meeting is almost triple from when I came in along with institutional commitment. The only thing consistent is that most people still only put a $1 in the basket. I guess inflation doesn't apply to AA.
Outside of AA the NA meeting where there were 2 when I started, there now are about 50. There are more rehabs than you can shake a stick at. AA is not the only recovery game in town anymore either.
All I can do is continue to share my experience, strength, and hope, work the steps, and follow the Traditions. The rest is in God's hands. I can't make anyone get sober.
I do recall hearing the same complaints that AA's not what it used to be, the message being diluted, people doing what there not supposed to be doing, etc., etc.. But The number of meeting is almost triple from when I came in along with institutional commitment. The only thing consistent is that most people still only put a $1 in the basket. I guess inflation doesn't apply to AA.
Outside of AA the NA meeting where there were 2 when I started, there now are about 50. There are more rehabs than you can shake a stick at. AA is not the only recovery game in town anymore either.
All I can do is continue to share my experience, strength, and hope, work the steps, and follow the Traditions. The rest is in God's hands. I can't make anyone get sober.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Michigan
Posts: 164
I actually wish AA meetings were more like the ones from the past you described. I am fully invested in the program, but sometimes I leave a meeting thinking 'well, I just listened to a bunch of people's problems about their jobs and kids, but I didn't really hear anything about the steps or overcoming alcoholism'. Not that those meetings aren't helpful, just an observation.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Severance Colorado
Posts: 150
Originally Posted by karate
Because people fail to address the mental issues that caused the excessive drinking in the first place -imo . Once those are addressed ,the alcoholism will remedy its self -imo .
You're probably a lot closer to the truth than you might realize. AA believes that alcoholism is an illness that centers in the mind. When you fix the illness the drink issue is gone. Fixing the illness is what the program is all about.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: highland beach, florida
Posts: 649
[QUOTE=Fluttering;4258602]What Happened?
That question is being asked by a lot of alcoholics lately. What happened to our high success rate? 30 & 40 years ago, we were keeping 75% or more of the alcoholics who came to us for help. Today, we aren’t keeping even 5%. What happened? What happened to that wonderful A.A. Group that was around for 20, 30 or 40 years? There used to be 50, 75, 100 or more at every meeting. It is now a matter of history; gone! More and more groups are folding every day. What happened? We hear a lot of ideas, opinions and excuses as to what happened but things are not improving. They continue to get worse. What is happening? [QUOTE/]
Hi Fluttering,
Are you speaking of AA groups in general or Sober Recovery? If I may ask where have you found these stats? I would love to read about this. I would have thought it would be the opposite with all the choices available today.
Thanks,
TrixMixer
That question is being asked by a lot of alcoholics lately. What happened to our high success rate? 30 & 40 years ago, we were keeping 75% or more of the alcoholics who came to us for help. Today, we aren’t keeping even 5%. What happened? What happened to that wonderful A.A. Group that was around for 20, 30 or 40 years? There used to be 50, 75, 100 or more at every meeting. It is now a matter of history; gone! More and more groups are folding every day. What happened? We hear a lot of ideas, opinions and excuses as to what happened but things are not improving. They continue to get worse. What is happening? [QUOTE/]
Hi Fluttering,
Are you speaking of AA groups in general or Sober Recovery? If I may ask where have you found these stats? I would love to read about this. I would have thought it would be the opposite with all the choices available today.
Thanks,
TrixMixer
Mini Novel Post Writer
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Maine
Posts: 3,649
This is pure opinion. Nothing more. Let me start by stating that the tools that I've acquired in AA are priceless, they've helped me not only get sober and still help me to remain sober to this day, they've also helped me at home and at work.
Remember, opinion alone, coming from a person who is sober and happy about it.
AA was written for the hardcore alcoholic in mind. Someone who, in order to get better, had to question nothing and just do what they're told. Someone who needs to accept that questioning is not permitted because if you do "there you go, thinking for yourself again!". Makes me wonder if the saying "Yours is not to question why, your is just to do or die" comes from.
However, in this day and age there are people who just need help. They are not at the level of not being able to somewhat think for themselves. They recognize that they have a problem and they want to work the program to get sober and to have a better life. They need to build a sober network and to work the steps with a good sponsor. However, they are treated like an end of the line alcoholic.
When groups and people get rid of the egos and start getting back to helping each other that's when there will be more success. When egos are so huge in a room that there leaves no room for newcomers there's a problem. When speakers talk and it becomes apparent that it's more about hearing themselves talk or showing up their peers as to how powerful a message they can deliver then the whole basis of the program is lost. The focus is no longer on helping the fellow alcoholic, it's the "LOOK at ME" show.
In my opinion this is where things went south.
AA needs to get back to it's core with the understanding that the level of assistance necessary is not always the same. Steps and Principles followed? Absolutely. How about helping a person to see why those are of the utmost importance by LEADING them to come to that realization for themselves rather than the approach of "what you think doesn't matter, just do as your told".
Remember, "HE helps those who help themselves". Wouldn't "he" be the "higher power?"
My OPINION only.
Remember, opinion alone, coming from a person who is sober and happy about it.
AA was written for the hardcore alcoholic in mind. Someone who, in order to get better, had to question nothing and just do what they're told. Someone who needs to accept that questioning is not permitted because if you do "there you go, thinking for yourself again!". Makes me wonder if the saying "Yours is not to question why, your is just to do or die" comes from.
However, in this day and age there are people who just need help. They are not at the level of not being able to somewhat think for themselves. They recognize that they have a problem and they want to work the program to get sober and to have a better life. They need to build a sober network and to work the steps with a good sponsor. However, they are treated like an end of the line alcoholic.
When groups and people get rid of the egos and start getting back to helping each other that's when there will be more success. When egos are so huge in a room that there leaves no room for newcomers there's a problem. When speakers talk and it becomes apparent that it's more about hearing themselves talk or showing up their peers as to how powerful a message they can deliver then the whole basis of the program is lost. The focus is no longer on helping the fellow alcoholic, it's the "LOOK at ME" show.
In my opinion this is where things went south.
AA needs to get back to it's core with the understanding that the level of assistance necessary is not always the same. Steps and Principles followed? Absolutely. How about helping a person to see why those are of the utmost importance by LEADING them to come to that realization for themselves rather than the approach of "what you think doesn't matter, just do as your told".
Remember, "HE helps those who help themselves". Wouldn't "he" be the "higher power?"
My OPINION only.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Central America/Florida USA
Posts: 4,064
While there is something to be said for a tried and true system, there's a lot about AA that comes off as extremely outdated.
1. The book was written in 1939
2. Its target audience is no longer the predominant culture in the USA. The demographics of this country are changing rapidly, and it's harder for today's addicts to identify with the literature.
3. Anything that's defined as a "book" is seen as old-fashioned these days.
4. The type of "service" that's required doesn't exist anymore either. In today's world, we don't show up on people's door steps. We e-mail them. We don't call people. We text. We don't go to meetings - we Skype or do a Google Hangout and hang out in a virtual room.
I'm not saying this is good or bad, I'm just telling you what I see. I liked AA and it helped me quit. But aside from Step 1, there's not much about AA that is going to appeal to a younger audience. It doesn't matter if it's relevant - upon first glance it doesn't appear to be, and appearance is all that matters to today's 20-somethings.
1. The book was written in 1939
2. Its target audience is no longer the predominant culture in the USA. The demographics of this country are changing rapidly, and it's harder for today's addicts to identify with the literature.
3. Anything that's defined as a "book" is seen as old-fashioned these days.
4. The type of "service" that's required doesn't exist anymore either. In today's world, we don't show up on people's door steps. We e-mail them. We don't call people. We text. We don't go to meetings - we Skype or do a Google Hangout and hang out in a virtual room.
I'm not saying this is good or bad, I'm just telling you what I see. I liked AA and it helped me quit. But aside from Step 1, there's not much about AA that is going to appeal to a younger audience. It doesn't matter if it's relevant - upon first glance it doesn't appear to be, and appearance is all that matters to today's 20-somethings.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: highland beach, florida
Posts: 649
Originally Posted by bigsombrero
While there is something to be said for a tried and true system, there's a lot about AA that comes off as extremely outdated.
1. The book was written in 1939
2. Its target audience is no longer the predominant culture in the USA. The demographics of this country are changing rapidly, and it's harder for today's addicts to identify with the literature.
3. Anything that's defined as a "book" is seen as old-fashioned these days.
4. The type of "service" that's required doesn't exist anymore either. In today's world, we don't show up on people's door steps. We e-mail them. We don't call people. We text. We don't go to meetings - we Skype or do a Google Hangout and hang out in a virtual room.
I'm not saying this is good or bad, I'm just telling you what I see. I liked AA and it helped me quit. But aside from Step 1, there's not much about AA that is going to appeal to a younger audience. It doesn't matter if it's relevant - upon first glance it doesn't appear to be, and appearance is all that matters to today's 20-somethings.
1. The book was written in 1939
2. Its target audience is no longer the predominant culture in the USA. The demographics of this country are changing rapidly, and it's harder for today's addicts to identify with the literature.
3. Anything that's defined as a "book" is seen as old-fashioned these days.
4. The type of "service" that's required doesn't exist anymore either. In today's world, we don't show up on people's door steps. We e-mail them. We don't call people. We text. We don't go to meetings - we Skype or do a Google Hangout and hang out in a virtual room.
I'm not saying this is good or bad, I'm just telling you what I see. I liked AA and it helped me quit. But aside from Step 1, there's not much about AA that is going to appeal to a younger audience. It doesn't matter if it's relevant - upon first glance it doesn't appear to be, and appearance is all that matters to today's 20-somethings.
Everything is cyber space now. IMO AA has lost their effectiveness for some because they are now sharing their stories on websites like this one and others and anonymity has replaced face to face accountability.
I admit I only went to a few meetings but everyone seemed to know each other there, and their familiarity kept them accountable each week for staying sober.
Now you come on here one night suicidal and willing to do anything to get sober. People pour out their heart to try and help, only to not hear from the OP for months if Ever again. Some even get indignant with some of the posts. Wanting SR to do the work For them.
The internet has made it very easy to hide looking at the monster we become as alcoholics. These posters have no accountability to us--they can just stop posting. It seems to me there are a very large group of dedicated members here on SR who have been helped initially by AA and then come here to talk to like minded people.That to me is a true benefit of SR--the plethora of information and experiences of the many who are living sober.
IMOO , how effective we are in getting and keeping people sober? I just don't think we know. It is just too easy for them to disappear into cyber space when things get a little to close for comfort.
Don't get me wrong SR help save the many.I believe the one-on-one , face to face accountability may be the missing link
Although not a fan of AA personally the "accountability" factor is a significant
deterrent, even I experienced that in just a few meetings.
Of course, again, this is just my opinion. SR has been at this a long time and probably know better...but just sayin!
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