Why do courts sentence people to AA?
Member
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Ohio
Posts: 3,785
Originally Posted by tomsteve 
nope, they still have a choice. they can go do whatever they want. they dont have to do one thing the judge tells em they have to do. what they have to do is face the consequences of their actions. they could have opted to sit in jail, but they chose not to.
i was court ordered. 2 meetings/wk for a year. went for a month then made the choice to risk buyin signatures for a beer at the bar. even made the choice to sit at home gettin drunk thumbin through the phone book and signin names myself all drunked up.if i woulda got caught, the consequences for my choices woulda been 6 months in jail.
consequences and choices. we all got em.
i was court ordered. 2 meetings/wk for a year. went for a month then made the choice to risk buyin signatures for a beer at the bar. even made the choice to sit at home gettin drunk thumbin through the phone book and signin names myself all drunked up.if i woulda got caught, the consequences for my choices woulda been 6 months in jail.
consequences and choices. we all got em.
He could have just plead guilty and did the 6 months from the get go. He chose the suggestion by his lawyer and the courts to go to AA meetings. He never went, cheated on the paperwork and got caught. That was his consequence for the choice he made.
He should have lost everything but instead I got the keys to his truck and kept it at my place. A friend of his and I cleared most of his items out of his apartment and placed them in storage at various friends houses.
Since then he has lost two more places to live and most of the stuff in those places as the direct result of drinking. Our effort to save his physical items in the end only prevented the inevitable.
Maybe, just maybe, if he had actually went to the AA meetings he might have gotten some help. There is no way to know.
He still drinks and drives. I hope he does not kill himself or someone else.
Om, Aum, Ohm...
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Punxsutawney/Pittsburgh
Posts: 4,797
Originally Posted by choublak
But they have to want it for themselves.
AA wasn't "court ordered" or "court suggested" for me. I went on my own, but I can't say I wanted it for myself. I was at a place in my sickness that I didn't want anything but death and an end to suffering for myself. Thing was, I had a couple of kids that deserved at least an effort on my part. They didn't ask for an alcoholic mother any more than I asked for an alcoholic father. I despised who I was and wasn't inclined to do anything for me.
While I believe a sense of obligation to my children wouldn't have kept me sober (after all, they became teenagers!), their presence in my life was the catalyst for trying, and in the trying, I found other reasons to live sober.
We don't have a huge number of folks getting slips signed for court, but those we do are, for the most part, respectful. We don't treat them any differently than any other newcomer. We reach out. We invite them to our "meeting after the meeting," and sometimes they accept, discussing their own situations over a slice of pizza or another cup of coffee. Some disappear as soon as they get the requisite number of signatures, and some stay long beyond that period. Rarely, but it happens, a resentment will be aired, and we empathize -- so you don't want to be here? Gotcha. How about just sitting and listening, and maybe you'll hear something useful?
choublak, I've been away for awhile -- did you start going to AA meetings? I thought you were f&f? Anyway, if you're part of a group and it disturbs you, bring it up at your group conscience meeting. A group can decide not to sign slips. One group in our district did, and then later, changed its mind. When it came to light how many of our longer-term members got their start in AA "at the suggestion of the judge," they realized it was not theirs to decide how someone should or should not come into knowledge about the message of sobriety.
Peace & Love,
Sugah
Peace, Love, Sobriety
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Wilmington, DE
Posts: 1,549
Originally Posted by choublak
They have their little sheet of paper with dates and times and have to persuade someone at the meeting to sign it to confirm they attended. Why do courts do this, when it goes against the basic principles of what AA is about?
Because after a DUI the judge is hoping maybe they will hear something in the meetings that makes them realize they have a problem. If it saves just one life I am all for them being sent to AA.
Member
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: CAPE COD, MA
Posts: 1,020
Originally Posted by choublak
But it goes against all the general principles of AA. THEY don't want to be there, and it's an affront to the anonymity of the program.
Grateful to be free
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Arizona
Posts: 3,680
My room mate had a DUI a few years ago. Our state is hard core about them. He ended up doing some time. He was court ordered to attend a certain number of alcohol recovery of some sort. Meaning he could go to AA, private therapy ,group therapy...but he had to go to something.
I don't know if this is how it works in other areas, but he did not have to go to AA, just to prove he was attending an approved alcohol recovery program.
I don't know if this is how it works in other areas, but he did not have to go to AA, just to prove he was attending an approved alcohol recovery program.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Lakeside, Ca
Posts: 10,208
seems to be reason enough
the only requirement for AA membership is
the desire to stop drinking
I have seen hundreds over the years come into
AA meetings with a court slip
who had a desire to stop drinking for a very long time
but
they had not a clue what to do
some of these have been helped to achieve sobriety in AA
this just being one reason of many why courts send people to AA
seems to be reason enough
Mountainman
Member
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Lakeside, Ca
Posts: 10,208
most judges will never turn down
Originally Posted by Threshold
Meaning he could go to AA, private therapy ,group therapy...but he had to go to something.
Calif is basically the same way
when I was on a court slip many years ago
the courts also accepted from me signatures from
Christian 12 Step groups, Kaiser outpatient and even bible study groups
most judges will never turn down any type of self help groups
although it may be a good idea to get prior approval from the assessment dp
Mountainman
when I was on a court slip many years ago
the courts also accepted from me signatures from
Christian 12 Step groups, Kaiser outpatient and even bible study groups
most judges will never turn down any type of self help groups
although it may be a good idea to get prior approval from the assessment dp
Mountainman
1000 Post Club
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Midwest USA
Posts: 2,284
In IL people rarely get jail/prison time. Our prisons are over crowded. It is a long hard process to get a drivers license back. But that issue is with the Secretary Of State and not the court system.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 158
Originally Posted by ru12
Some jurisdictions do NOT send anyone to AA as it has been ruled "inheriently religious" and thus violates the separation clause. It is my understanding that even the jurisdictions that use AA offer attendance in lieu of prosecution. There is a choice to be made by the offender: go to AA or go to jail. Some jurisdictions offer AA or an alternative like SMART or Life Ring.
Forced participation in AA/NA is no longer permitted unless there is a secular option for the parolee to chose from, such as SOS, SMARTRecovery, Rational Recovery, LifeRing.
Importantly, but off topic, is that this case law is based on AA/NA being a religious entity. There was little, if any, legal dispute about this issue. These were all cases about contended violations of the establishment clause in the 1st Amendment.
Increasingly, the trend is to legally regard AA/NA a religious organization or process. We have staved off this rather unpleasant adjudication for many years. But we're seeing the end of that honeymoon, I suspect.
Originally Posted by Sugah
One group in our district did, and then later, changed its mind. When it came to light how many of our longer-term members got their start in AA "at the suggestion of the judge," they realized it was not theirs to decide how someone should or should not come into knowledge about the message of sobriety.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 625
Originally Posted by RumHound
The court ordering of defendants to make a choice of alcohol use programs is an outside issue to A.A.
When the majority of AA see a slip as optional because it's not life or death for them because they were brought into the program well before their bottom - then I believe that it affects AA as a whole. The message has been watered down because the typical 'alcoholic' is barely a problem drinker.
1000 Post Club
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Midwest USA
Posts: 2,284
Realistically, how can they prove one attended a AA meeting? It like the court system is insulting the mandated persons intelligence. Half the time the signature is so scribbled you can't even read it. "Sly" alcoholics will sign it themselves. Mandated outpatient treatment, however, is next to impossible to cheat.
Currently Active Users Viewing this Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
