AnAddict

Hi everyone,

I often come here for help. Thanks to those who shine some light on my situation!

I can't stop using/drinking, and so I understand my powerlessness in this regard. But when I say that to myself - and to whomever else might be listening - and start trying an AA approach to addiction recovery, I also become hopeless. When I'm angry or selfish or sad or whatever, I tell myself that I should be turning to God, having a spiritual awakening, etc. etc. in my head. And to be honest that hopelessness follows me around, and it drives me mad! It makes me want to drink/use within a day, and I feel depressed a lot. Yet, I'm somehow convinced that this way I'll be free one day because one day God is going to make this better, only it never comes. And I've had my moments of what felt like total surrender but then it all comes crashing down again at some later point. And frankly, it seems endless.

But when I adopt a more 'I can do this' approach (I.e. AVRT) ... I feel a lot better on a daily basis. And I go for up to a month with no addictive behaviour of any kind. But it always comes back. So, no, I can't stop. So I can't say that AVRT has 'worked' for me, because I do crawl back eventually. However it does make me a lot more sober as a percentage of days in a month, but surely I should be seeking total sobriety?

I know I should learn to think for myself, but thinking seems to be part of my problem!

KeyHeart

Well, there's a huge difference between actually practicing AVRT and adopting an "i can do this" approach "such as" AVRT.
You need to read, research, learn, listen, and repeat ad nauseum. Personally I've sort of glommed on to the AVRT "pros" here and I pick their brains.
It's hard work navigating sobriety, no matter WHAT path you choose. Whether AVRT, AA, talking therapy, psychiarty, hypnosis... et al. But I really recommend WORKING at it.
Good luck to you and stay sober!

AnAddict

Thanks for your reply. I should clarify - I was applying AVRT to my recovery, however my ability to recognise the AV was so poor that it was only when I was literally craving out of my mind did I ever attribute my craving to the AV.

freshstart57

A lot of neat things we can learn to do take practice and concentration, and a bunch of self examination. These things can be called 'mastery', like timing a roast in the oven, or playing a musical instrument, or juggling. I think that staying sober is one of them.

This AVRT awareness for me didn't come as a flash out of the blue, it wasn't born an adult. It has been through practice, self awareness and mindfulness that AVRT has become my rock solid way forward in sobriety. You mentioned becoming aware of your AV only when you were suffering the screaming meemies. I have to believe that it started out much more subtly than that. I also feel that you will be securely sober when you become aware of your AV at the start, as soon as those thoughts of drinking again and of self doubt start to form. Believing that you should no longer trust your own brain is AV, don't forget.

Do you have a Big Plan to quit drinking? Have you made that final decision about continuing to use alcohol? That decision for me was what set me up to recognize that beast as it would give me the slightest poke towards a beer, a nice cold crisp lager. Ha! There you are again, ya bum. You can't put those thoughts into my conscious mind and have me accept them as something I want any more simply because I have made that vow to never drink again, and to never change my mind.

If the AVRT approach of self empowerment and belief in self appeals to you as it does to me, I hope you continue to learn more about it and about yourself. Becoming aware of your thoughts and detaching from the harmful ones is all that AVRT is about. There is no magic, you must first believe you can succeed and make that decision.

Are you ready to make that plan about continuing to drink? I wish you well, AnAddict. Onward!

gaffo

I used to quit for a month every once in a while, just to prove that I could then I would jump back in. Once I broke six months I started to feel like I might be able to do this for good. My personal approach leans towards AVRT but I believe in AA and I rely on SR. I try not to over think it, just don't drink now, especially in the beginning.

It's worth the discomfort. Trust us, it gets easier.

Mountainmanbob

instant

Do what ever you have done before to get to a month. The things that lead us back beyond that are our own doing.

When i was prepared to surrender unconditionally to sobriety it worked

RobbyRobot

Quitting for its own sake is the real prize to want above all else, for without quitting, nothing else can possibly be worth a damn for long. Your attitude of 'I can do this' is a great example of you doing it right, and then you quit on yourself, and return to drinking. Addiction ambivalence is indeed a bitch to be sure, and yet this too can eventually be resolved with simply sticking to quitting.

Knowing there are many ways to live a life free from alcohol, and having many examples of folk happily doing so here on SR is a wonderful resource for self-empowerment and on-line community fellowship.

I think putting the cart (alcohol free lifestyle) before the horse (quitting) is a sure fire way to complicate quitting, and even doom it to failure. Making oneself fit into whatever when one doesn't really fit in the first place is problematic and ultimately undesirable.

A better way forward is to put everything into quitting, (I can do this) and thereafter make lifestyle choices on how to live alcohol free ever after.

I have no personal experience with using any mainstream method to actually quit drinking. I quit first, and from that advantage, later decided on my best choices for a lifestyle going forward. Worked out well for me. I haven't returned to drinking, I'm happy and successful, I'm a new man living a new life for many years now.

I'm not really into telling you what lifestyle choices worked for me will work for you -- I am interested in sharing with you that quitting is the single most important beginning, and all of us share that in common, no matter our eventual lifestyle choices. There is much more available to us and within us at quitting time then a lot of folk are aware of as a resource. All too often folk make quitting the 'problem' and then look for a method to deal with that invented 'problem' so they can stay quit. Not the best way forward.

So, I encourage you to think about quitting as something you do for yourself, as yourself, and from your own resources. Period. Don't so easily give early results of success to whatever lifestyle you may choose -- rather take a bit longer for yourself for establishing quitting as the ideal prize.

As I said, there are plenty of choices available to ensure a permanent alcohol free lifestyle. And plenty of time to decide which lifestyle choices are the most ideal for YOU.

fantail

Have you looked into secular support groups? Groups like LifeRing and SOS I've heard use similar language and mindset to AVRT. Then you could get the approach that you relate to but also the camaraderie and accountability that go along with having a support group.

I've seen how valuable it is to have accountability to other people. My defenses against giving in to a craving are, in order:

1. Commitment to my progress (Physical and mental healing). If that doesn't seem convincing at the moment, then
2. Avoidance of pain (hangover, embarrassing behavior). If not that:
3. Willpower (I just won't!). If I can't even manage that:
4. Friends will know I didn't meet my goal. And if none of my friends are around:
5. I will have to own up to my group on SR.

I can tell you that while usually numbers 1 and 2 work out for me, there have been more than just a few times when I got all the way to 5 before I could talk myself out of it. As my sobriety progresses I'm looking into in-person support groups so I can add one more layer of prevention.

AnAddict

Thank you, everyone.

When I quit for a few months, I was very happy in my life. But my girlfriend essentially said she didn't mind what I was doing before I quit, since I seemed to become so vigilant after quitting and not so relaxed about life. So I slid back, and now I'm here.

I find it hard to live the life I really want to live - I'm so easily influenced, and wonder what it is I really want. But I guess that whatever I want from life, quitting has to come first. For quitting's sake, and for my sake, really.

Thanks fantail for your craving-coping strategies. I need to find some of my own to implement.

2granddaughters

What does your AA sponsor say about your struggle? What do the AA oldtimers recommend?

I believe your answer lies in AA's "HOW IT WORKS"

All the best.

Bob R

Dee74

Did you read the thread Bob?

D

bemyself

Hi AnAddict - geez, I could have written your first post myself...I'm in a very similar situation, seemingly being unable to sustain sobriety. And I too feel a bit like you re my inner responses to AA and great difficulties in actually practicing AVRT effectively.

You might want to read a thread started a few back from yours by MrJameEsquire....he talks a bit about that somehow baffling 'disconnect' between sober times and life getting / feeling better. In fact, heaps of SR newcomers talk about that so we're certainly not alone.

In that regard, what RobbyRobot bangs on about a lot :-) :-) is strangely quite helpful: namely, quit first....then work on whatever things one seeks in order to pursue a better life, in whatever form that might take for the individual. From the midst of active addiction, that idea seems counter-intuitive. But if you look at it another way, from another angle, it's actually quite sensible and logical. Sort of like the old Buddhist saying: 'the journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step'....or something!

I went to my first SMART meeting locally on Friday (Aus time), in an attempt to 'be safe' in a group out of the house for just a little while (as an attempt at another Day 1). Today is another Day 1...BUT I have to say that yeh, as others noted, it can be helpful to meet with others online or in real life simply to discuss how best to simply live, sober.

We need to keep on keeping on with quitting IN ORDER to live, I reckon.

awuh1

The reading your post I find myself wondering if the major stumbling block you are encountering his depression. You mention depression specifically and you also talk about hopelessness. I suggest that you find a qualified mental health professional and get an evaluation to rule out a clinical depression.

AnAddict

Thanks for all your responses. I'm taking on board all that you're all saying. I think I'm just obsessed with HOW to quit, and I like what RobbyRobot said about just quitting for quitting's sake... That was powerful.

Along the same lines, I'd like to build a relationship with a power greater than myself for its own sake. In building a relationship with a HP, it absolutely crushes me when I use again because it makes me feel that a HP 'isn't real', because in taking that approach, I've been so obsessed with this HP saving me, that when I use, the HP is no longer real. Why can't I just try love something greater than myself without that relationship hinging upon sobriety? It feels like I can only let myself quit if things go my way.

Thanks for your concern awuh1 - I am currently in a waiting list to see someone about talking therapies .

RobbyRobot

Interesting discussion.

I quit as an agnostic. An agnostic is a person who believes that the actual existence of a greater power (GOD or HP) cannot be proven or disproved either way. In my sobriety, I continue to hold agnostic believes. Even though I'm also Christian as a matter of faith, this faith has nothing to do with my sobriety, just like it had nothing to do with my drunkenness. I was raised Christian, gave it up for agnosticism, and eventually chose to be Christian in faith with my ever-lasting soul. Sobriety is not my life, but is a part of my life.

AA provides for a HP of our own understanding. That appealed to me. Agnosticism works well with AA HP. The sky is the limit, so to speak. My HP does not keep me sober. My HP is the spiritual answer for my alcoholism illness, and that is the end of it. I don't pray to my HP. I'm guided by my HP into a quality of sobriety that otherwise would be impossible for me to achieve. This spiritual sobriety quality is priceless and rockets me into an entirely different sober experience because I do so as a non-drinking alcoholic, which is different then simply being a non-drinker.

Some, even in AA, and especially in AVRT, do not of course agree with me. Nonetheless. Here I am.

So, I'm here to say to YOU, you can have the HP you describe. YES! And as for feeling like having things go your own way so as you can quit, you can have that too! The trick is to keep it simple, and only want what you yourself can understand for yourself. Be yourself, and everything else will work out really well. Too often, even in AVRT, folk back-slap themselves on having common understandings. Not a problem in itself, but all to often, in my opinion, they eventually exist inside of what is just another name for same old same old.

I successfully live and practice both AA and AVRT, taking what I need for me. I have a distinctly uncommon understanding of both. I've never returned to drinking since 1981. I'll never drink again. I'm happy and free being me. Go figure.

Henry Ford:

"An idealist is a person who helps other people be prosperous."

"Any customer can have a car painted any colour that he wants so long as it is black."

Awesome. True food for thought.

AnAddict

Thanks Robby for your guidance here. Not really anything else to say, except.. a really helpful perspective you're offering . Incredibly liberating, really.

sugarbear1

In AA, the work involved lies with working with a sponsor and working those 12 steps. That is the road that leads us to a power greater than ourselves.

No matter what, work something into your life to stay stopped, if you are ready to stay stopped!

AnAddict

Thanks sugarbear1. I'm ready .

bmwcycle

Not my place but, are you still with this girl?