legna

I've learned quite a bit from SR in the relatively short time that I've been here. For instance, I've learned that there are many support programs out there besides AA. Despite the fact that I first came to AA 34 years ago and have lived in 40 states since that time - I had no idea. The only other program I had heard of was Celebrate Recovery which, as I understand it, is a Christ centered twelve step program.

SR is a very good tool for learning what people think because the relative anonymity of the internet allows people to give their opinions unfettered by restraints such as political correctness. Too, people who might refrain from giving their opinion in a face to face situation due to fear that their opinion might be unpopular or 'wrong' don't face the same level of social rejection that they wuld in real life and so I think that the thoughts and feelings shared here, in many cases, more accurately reflect peoples true thoughts and feelings.

So where am I going with this? My wife and I attend AA meetings which are required for her. She is on parole and she is restricted to one county. Within the county that we live there is only AA. Since discovering that there is more than just AA available out there I have checked. Unfortunately, the fact is that she is required to go to AA meetings and so, even if their were alternatives, I'm not sure we could get them to sign on to her attending those instead. Okay, next issue - there is exactly one meeting a week in the county. That's one (1) - count 'em. My point is - we have no alternatives. We cannot simply find another meeting.

I realize that many of you will believe that what I am about to describe is not AA and therefore doesn't happen but it does. A paper is circulated at the beginning of each meeting where you are asked to list your name, sobriety date, home group, phone number and desired topic (if you have one). It is through donating our e-mail address that we have become innundated with prosletizing. I have received no less than 100 e-mails from members over the last year and every one carries a Christian message. We are atheists and so we choose not to participate in the Lord's prayer at the end of the meeting - my wife joins the circle and remains silent while I sit out. While it is not something that happens every week, reading out of the Bible, as happened this week as two members shared on the topic, is not unusual.

I am not about to start a second meeting in this county. People tend to have a very clear idea of what AA is and is not - SR is a good reference for that, and as a result, people here would not attend a meeting that was so clearly NOT a real meeting (in other words, not what they have come to know AA as).

Anywho - not sure what the point of this post is. Part 'getting it out' I suppose, and part truly trying to educate. Not everyone has the same options when it comes to recovery or even AA...which is, I think, SR's greatest gift to the community - the opportunity to connect people that might otherwise not meet and be able to help each other.

bigsombrero

Sounds like you're pretty hamstrung with options, and the only solution you have really stinks. Maybe all of the e-mails are coming from some kind of group-host, and you can either have them auto-deleted, or unscubscribe from the list, or mark as spam? I have a ton of junk that ***** filters right to the trash for me.

As for the Lord's Prayer thing, I never say it, nor have I ever said "God" in the serenity prayer. I wonder what I'll do tomorrow as I am going to a new group?

Anyway, I sympathize. I bet there aren't many grocery stores, bakeries, coffee shops or public transport systems there either? I suppose that's part of living in a remote area, you take the good with the bad! Good luck.

soberlicious

whoa...

Doesn't sound like a very good situation.

I hope she is able to find something useful here at SR. How long is she mandated to attend that meeting?

freshstart57

Turner v. Hickman, 342 F.Supp.2d 887 (E.D.Cal.2004)
Federal District Court for the Eastern District of California
Turner filed a § 1983 civil rights action claiming that corrections officials had established religion in violation of the First Amendment by demanding that he participate in a drug treatment program including NA to be eligible for consideration for parole. The District Court held that requiring inmates, as a condition for being granted parole, to participate in a drug treatment program based on the concept of a higher power to which participants had to submit, was an establishment of religion prohibited by the First Amendment. According to the Court, even though the program's literature said that it was "not a religious program," it unequivocally and wholeheartedly asserted that belief in "God" was a fundamental requirement of participation. The Court noted that the inmate had standing to raise a claim, even though he was a Christian. The court entered an injunction, prohibiting officials from considering the prisoner's refusal to participate in Narcotics Anonymous at any point in time as a basis for denying parole.

legna

No, unfortunately, each is an individual and personal e-mail directly from the sender to the heathen's soul. It's all good really, I know that their behavior comes from a place of caring and concern - unwanted as the attention may be.

legna

Actually, I'm the only one spending any time at SR - she's not an alcoholic. Yeah, I know... Truth is, the judicial system in the US (imo) uses twelve step programs as a dumping ground for almost everyone. My wife was ordered to attend AA meetings as a condition of her parole without ever having had a drink.

Anywho, she's on parole for life and so - unless something changes, she must attend AA meetings for life as well. As this is the only meeting in the county then she's mandated to attend this particular meeting until either another meeting starts up, she gets a bit more rope (ie can visit another county), or they decide she's cured from her imaginary alcoholism and no longer mandates that she must go.

legna

*nods* in addition, SCOTUS rejected an appeal from officials in Orange County, N.Y., amd let stand a ruling protecting the right of an atheist to refuse mandatory attendance at Alcoholics Anonymous meetings as a condition for probation.

However, be that as it my be, those of us who have been intimately involved with the justice system and the DOC for any length of time have learned that you have to pick your fights. Having rights doesn't mean you won't be punished for exercising those rights. This one is an easy one to follow...we save the fights for life and death issues.

soberlicious

I don't even know what to say...if I were religious and/or believed in Hell...what you just described would be a close approximation.

Are they aware you are a heathen, hence the e-mails?

LexieCat

Nobody is required to put his/her email (or your name or any info, for that matter) on the email list.

If she needs to get her card punched, she has her paper signed and that should be it. Block the spam.

legna

lol - I very much like SR, and you are definately one of the reasons that I do.

Yeah, they are aware and they are trying to save my soul. It doesn't come from the group per se - but any group member can access the attendance list and send a personal e-mail. This way of course, it is not AA doing the prosletizing but a member of AA acting in a personal capacity.

legna

You're right - and if I had known that I would be inviting such e-mails, I would have refrained the first time. Now however, it is too late, the e-mail addy cannot be ungiven.

Agreed, on the second note though, it's not spam....personal e-mails aquired through group e-mail list and so the e-mails come from a variety of addresses. Anyway, I suppose I could change my e-mail addy but it has been mine for twenty years and I have a great number of professional contacts through it. It's not that I can't ignore the e-mails - just pointing out that such things happen.

sugarbear1

I have a junk email account I use quite often.....I know, it's too late for your email, but maybe learn from it

Not sure where you are or what kind of attorney you had, but this kinda sucks.

AA was never meant to be religious and definitely isn't where I am.

So sorry you have to endure this stuff.

Be well,

Gal220

Wow! I have never even heard of an AA group sending out proseletyzing emails. AA is not supposed to be religious. A couple of our groups do send around a phone list, but it's for the newcomer phone list. I never put my name down. I understand the purpose, and I am more than willing to give my name and number out to the newcomer when I meet her. But I will not just sign an attendance list. AA is anonymous and no one can make me.

The only thing I can think of since you did sign it is to petition whoever handles the emails so your name is removed or just block them. I guess if it's a lifetime parole issue and you have the means, you could always fight it as a first amendment issue. You shouldn't have to, but it's always an option. I also disagree with mandated AA (even though I know a lot of people who got meaningful, long-term sobriety because court orders got them started). I don't disagree with a mandated program or counseling of some sort; I'm definitely in favor of giving people a chance and helping them instead of just tossing them in jail. It's also definitely cheaper on the taxpayer. But I think people should have a choice of what recovery option they choose. But it doesn't really matter what I think!

I'm sorry your meeting experiences have been so bad! Sometimes I think some of our meetings are bad, but then I hear stuff like this. We have a crew of gangsters (or wannabees) at one of our meetings who just come in, text, play video games, and listen to their mp3 players for the whole meeting. I guess you could always do that if you aren't getting anything out of the meetings.

Edit: I guess my suggestions were already offered! Oh well.

laurie6781

How about your wife takes a 'different' approach with her parole officer?

ie talks to PO about she would really like to attend more than one meeting
a week, however there is only the one meeting in her county. Could she
please have permission to attend MORE meetings in the surrounding
counties???

It is worth a shot, the worst the PO can say is no.

And no, what you have described is not what I have come to expect in and
of an AA meeting in these past 31+ years. Yes, I have been to some that
are that enmeshed in Christianity and others that do more about the "God as
we understood him". I do believe you might find some better meetings if
she is allowed by her PO to attend in other counties. Sounds like this one
is just the same folks week in and week out and it is only once a week and
they use the emails to 'help' each other 'stay strong.' That is really not what
AA is about.

Hope her talking to her PO with a new 'attitude' of wanting to do 'more than
one meeting a week' might just get her the 'freedom' to find other meetings
in the surrounding counties!!!!

Love and hugs,

soberlicious

You are right and, of course, very smart to take the path of least resistance in this situation. A lifetime of this seems rather daunting though...

I can certainly understand them trying to save your soul, as witnessing to atheists is very important to some Christians. Their fear for you is real...to them. So while I'm sure they mean well, you know what they say about good intentions.

Back at ya...and I have even more respect for you since you go with her each week even though you don't have to. That says alot.