mdh0723

Hi All,

I normally post on the ‘Friends and Family of Alcoholics’ forum, but I came here today to ask a few questions that I’ve been trying to find a straight answer to. I hope no one minds that I’m reaching out to those in this forum!

A little background: My AH and I are in the process of divorcing. He left me for a third time in February, re-contacted me in April and we tried to rekindle the relationship. He told me numerous times over the several months we were back together that he loved me and was grateful for me “sticking it out”, however in August he ended up pushing me away again and asking for a divorce. I don’t believe there is anyone else, I just think he wants to be left alone to drink. He knows he’s an alcoholic (admits it to ME, but no one else that I’m aware of) and although he functions during the day, he drinks everyday with NO exception (he is 34 and has been drinking daily/heavily for probably 15 years). He has progressed from drinking beer to drinking vodka in just the four years we have been together. I truly do love my husband and was reluctant to send him the final divorce papers, but I did per his request. He signed them and our divorce should be final shortly. I’m heartbroken but also acknowledge that this is for the best – I think at this point it’s the most loving thing we can do for one another – I need to work on me and he on him.

I know some people would say I shouldn’t care anymore about him and just worry about myself, but part of MY healing process/recovery is learning as much as I can about the disease of alcoholism (along with learning about me, co-dependency, etc.) – that’s just the way I roll.

My AH is a “functioning” alcoholic. He maintains a job, never calls in sick, and is considered a good/dependable employee. But as soon as he gets off of work he starts drinking (at least I think he waits until he gets off of work) and it’s all downhill from there (no responsibility, doesn’t seem to care about anything, if he talked to me it was always about him, negative about pretty much everything, etc.)

So, my question is : How does someone function during the day (able to work, have intelligent/mature conversations with co-workers and customers, complete tasks as needed) but then completely withdraw from family and life in the evenings? I want to try and understand what goes through my AH’s mind during the day. I’m not even sure it’s a question that can be answered as I’m sure it’s different for everyone, but personal experiences/insight would be great. Is it a struggle to get through the day, does one think about drinking all day?

Another question I had was if someone drinks (and drinks heavily) every evening, are they ever truly sober? Is this why the mind of an alcoholic is, as some would say, “mush” or foggy? Like the brain never has a chance to heal enough to think/behave rationally?

I have read many books on alcoholism, but for some reason these two questions I’ve either not found the answer, the answer was vague or perhaps it just wasn’t one that I could understand … so I came here … to people I know have been there and can perhaps give me some insight. Again, I hope no one minds that I popped onto this forum.

I will pray every day for my AH, even after the divorce is final. I believe in him and one day I hope he believes in himself too.

doggonecarl

Sorry you are going through this. There is no switch that turns off the caring.

The upcoming evening's drinking, that's what's going through his mind.

PaperDolls

Lot of questions there.

I was functioning in that I had a job. I'm not sure I had tons of intelligent/mature conversations though. I sure tried. I was lucky to make it to work on time and then meet deadlines. It was a daily struggle.

Yes, I was just existing. Not living life and not happy for sure. If I wasn't drinking I was either trying to recover from drinking or planning my next drink. So yes, all day pretty much.

May be sober but certainly not all there.

Yes.

I'm sorry you're struggling. Like carl said, it's not easy (may be impossible) to stop caring.

Now, because I'm not only a recovering alcoholic but a ACOA and codie i'm going to ask you .... what are you doing for YOUR recovery? You may not have expected or wanted to hear that question here but many of us alcoholics qualify for Alanon too.

Are there answers to your questions that you think might make it easier? It's tough to just focus on you. I still have to work pretty hard at it myself.

FredG

I cop in a local city once told me of someone that was thrown in the drunk tank testing at .48. Supposedly you're dead at .5. After 2 days when he was acting very, very sober, they released him and just for kicks decided to test him again. He tested at .29.

When I got my 2 impaireds my highest reading was .27.

After a long period of time we develop a tolerance where we require a certain amount of alcohol in our system just to be 'normal', or at least appear that way.

The condition 'mush' or 'foggy' that I think you are referring to is an actual medical condition that can happen after a long time of continuous drinking, year after year. It's loose definition is 'wet brain'. Alcohol actually destroys brain cells and since that is the one type of cell that is never replaced, some of those that drink heavily, and continuously for years and years can end up in hospital as more or less a vegitable.

BackToSquareOne

mdh0723, many of us were able to remain quite functional while still being very heavy drinkers/alcoholics. I have known a few that made it thru entire working careers, professions, etc. without getting into any major trouble. The ones that are able to do that are more of the exception than the rule tho.

It almost seems like people in that group have an uncanny ability to put the brakes on before they crash and burn beyond repair. It is a very dangerous game to play because the alcohol disassembles the persons life in bits and pieces, makes problems easy to attribute to other causes and to actually believe that they are still in full control when nothing could be further from the truth.

A lot of alcoholics that are functional have a bunch of enablers in their lives, I don't know if thats true in his case but these would be people who cover his tracks and do a lot of the things he should be doing. I had quite a few in my drinking days. Getting those out of his life is always a step in the right direction. It's much harder for the alcoholic to keep up the facade without enablers.

I honestly believe that some are just better at maintaining some semblance of control than others are, there really is no other explanation as to why some get away with it for decades and others do not. As far as what you can do, other than what you've already read in friends and family I don't have much to offer. As the old saying goes "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink". He really has to want help, the desire to quit is a major part of the equation and its something that comes from within. Whatever happens, I really hope you find some light at the end of the tunnel.

cmason249

As someone who is recently sober (and having marital problems of my own), I believe the reason he becomes withdrawn at home is that his focus, his whole life's purpose, once alcohol hits his lips, is to drink more. This is a problem I have been trying to work through for a VERY long time. That in itself does NOT mean he doesn't love you, although there could be more issues.

I could always function very well if I drank 12 or so beers, then stopped, and went to work. Or none at all. It's the "runaway effect", as I've come to call it, that causes all the problems. That single-minded, all-consuming NEED to drink more after the first one that causes ALL the issues (for me at least).

Hope that helps you understand. Best of luck to you and your husband. It is not an easy road, but it CAN be traveled.

Mark75

Nobody knows the trouble I've seen. LOL

You know I have a pretty high stress job, a lot rides on me keeping all the balls in the air... I began to think that I had it especially difficult... that just getting through the work day was an amazing feat... and the whole point, the whole freakin' point... was to go home and completely withdraw... take a ride through my artificial personal universe.

How does someone do that?... easy, just pour me another one...

Prayers to you and your husband and you are welcome to ask me anything...

FlyerFan

We don't mind at all, in fact I am especially grateful when "normal" people ask me questions about being an alcoholic. It gives me a sense of helpfulness that I may be able to ease their worries or at least provide some insight!

Sadly alcoholism is a progressive disease. He may be functional one day and the next day not. I have experienced the worst part of this disease and once it takes over your body, your mind is quick to follow. It sounds like you may be right about him just wanting to be alone to drink. That is what we do. We isolate and we will get rid of anything or anyone who gets in the way of our drinking. Until we have nothing left, and then we go crazy. (literally)

I commend you for caring and being a loving wife. Many cannot and will not tolerate as much as you have. And many can just leave and never look back, I've seen those too. I'm glad you want to learn more about alcoholism and want to help, this is wonderful. But you won't be able to help him, until he WANTS to help himself. He has to hit some sort of bottom and have a realization, otherwise he will just keep drinking.

I did the same exact thing. As soon as work was over I was drunk within the hour. But one day came when I didn't only drink in the evenings, I decided I could have a drink during my lunch break, and then another day came when I decided I could drink all weekend long. Weekends melted into weekdays and so on. That is the progressiveness I mentioned earlier. It's very sad and we never see it coming until we're either beating on death's door or injured/have injured someone else severely enough to knock a little sense into us.

Major struggle for most. All i thought about all day was "boy, i cant wait to go home and drink. I did what I had to do to get my job finished as quickly as possible so that I could go drink sooner. It's a mental and physical disease. It affects not only our bodies but our minds as well. We hear this nagging little voice (like the opposite of our conscience) that says "mmmm, cold beer....you can have one...you deserve it" and then one turns into 12 and before we know it we're blacked out.

Correct. At least in my opinion it is. That is why we go through withdrawal when we have alcohol taken away from us.

Again, of course we don't mind at all. I wish more people were like you and wanted to learn about us. A lot of people that I know just dismiss us as "worthless" and don't think that we can be helped. So your coming here really makes me feel good about being sober today and wanting to help others. Keep praying, that's all you can do.

MWL1983

I have/had been able to hide my the fact that I was a pretty bad drunk from my partner, my family, and my employer to the point that when I finally revealed that I need help and was alcoholic, it was somewhat shocking.

When I say bad drunk, I mean succeeding in my career field during the day, cooking dinner and socializing at night, whilst waiting for the end of the day when I could have my 1/2-3/4 bottle of wine or 2-4 beers, plus my daily pint of liquor. I'd wake up in a fog, drive to work, muster through the hangover and withdrawal symptoms, forget where I parked my car, and work until 6 or 7 pm and then resume my nightly routine.

I'd told myself I could stop and that I was still in control. After all, I'd succeeded in my professional endeavors, to include bachelors, masters, and doctorate degrees in a challenging field. I don't think anyone thought that an alcoholic could be in active alcoholism and achieve what I was achieving, but I did it.

I was a very dull and unhappy person though, and what finally got me to seek help was a level of desperation and powerlessness over alcohol that I never imagined I'd reach.

I was hungover every day, and the weeks and weekends began to really blur together. Oddly enough, I feel now that I was more creative and a better on the spot thinker in those days.

Now, I've been going to AA for about a year and have put together longer stints of sobriety, but I still struggle. In all, I've only drank for about 5 or 6 of the last 300ish days or so. Today, I'm 4 days sober after a 3 day bender. I really hate the disease and the hold it has over me. However, I know that sobriety is something that I want desperately. It's just a tricky, tricky disease.

I think your soon-to-be ex-husband will only find his way to recovery if his life gets bad enough. If he's isolating himself and nobody is enabling him, he'll start to realize the consequences of his active addiction and hopefully, he gets desperate enough before he loses too much.

Maybe one day he'll get his life and affairs in order and you two will have another shot. Your best bet is to focus on self-care and putting one foot in front of the other. Take care.

brandon85

As an alcoholic I come here to get support and for knowledge. I've learned from this thread. So I'd like to thank you for posting here.

Sorry I have nothing constructive to ad.

sugarbear1

Alcohol helped me to feel okay in my own skin. Alcoholism isn't about drinking. It's about not being able to live without drinking.

I was still concerned with others, but more consumed with feeling okay. I felt badly about drinking every time I did drink and yet I kept drinking. Then I felt worse.

It didn't stop me, I was obsessed and when I drank, I had to continue.

Once I had one drink, I couldn't stop until oblivion. Then nothing mattered, including the most recent bout of drinking. I didn't want to get like that, but I did get like that.

It's a perpetual vicious cycle.

For me, I had lost everything and the alcohol just didn't work.

I drank and didn't feel okay in my own skin and I couldn't live without drinking. I became totally desperate and hopeless.

The hard decision for me was deciding on this: continue drinking and die an alcoholic death or try AA and a spiritual way of life.

I didn't want to be an alcoholic. Alcohol didn't work. I was stuck. Really, really stuck.

I had to stay stopped, I tried, on day 5 I ran to an AA meeting. On day 12, I met my first sponsor (this time in AA) who guided me through the steps on days 14 and 15. Those steps saved my life.

It took me 25 years of going in and out of AA to decide to work those steps with a sponsor (this time ALL of the steps, not stopping on any of them) and a higher power I never wanted to believe in.

I don't know what your husband feels or thinks. This was my story.

I wish you all the best. Are you in Al Anon?

sugarbear1

Fred, our tolerance levels can amaze us. I had helped a roommate go to the ER for detox, he was standing and making jokes in the ER (that were really funny, too). His BAC was .61. Proves that tolerance can be built up over a period of time. I found 20 empty gallon containers of cheap vodka in his room and one full one I dumped out. He let himself out of the hospital and walked the 10 miles to the apartment because he "knew" that one bottle was still there...I threw his clothing to him off the balcony and sent him on his way.....he detoxed at his dad's house....then he ended up back in the hospital within the next 12 hours and was told never to drink again or he'd die (liver damage, etc). He was in his early 30's or late 20's then.

I don't know where he is today.

liv1ce

I think you have your answer but will be one more voice. I have been addicted to many things. Pot first, then alcohol when I was seemingly to old to find it in my circle of acquaintances. I am a medical professional dealing with the public all day and did so very competently, however, my mind - or part of it - was constantly on the daily task of how I was going to get the booze I needed and pay for it without it being known, get it in the house, hide it and then drink it. I had little games and lies and manipulations that worked it all out. It often had to be slightly different each day to not set an obvious pattern. I had to have a cycle of stores so I wouldn't be seen buyin a quart EVERY DAY as someone would think I was an alcoholic. Maybe even me. I had a bottle that was a pint - surely such a small amount that no alcoholic would bother with that was always obvious and from which I would take my first drink and then the rest of the night find a reason to go where one of my hidden quarts or half gallons was. To me it seemed that if I had one obvious drink and then was not seen to mix another that the one alone would explain the smell on my breath. So ther it is. What does an alcoholic do with his day. It boggles the mind how one could hold two full time jobs - the legitimate one and the REAL job of finding how to get drunk.

By the way, after swearing off alcohol the pills were easy as I could take an entire shovel full and you could never smell it on my breath.

tomsteve

the best advise i can give to understand what an alcoholic is like is to google the Big Book of alcoholics anonymous and read the first 154 pages.

i would highly suggest it for him,too.

FlyerFan

Yes, read the chapter "To Wives" it will explain a lot of things about alcoholism and how it relates to relationships.

mdh0723

Sorry I didn't have a chance to reply to this post last night. My daughter had softball and then homework and by the time we got to bed I had enough time to read the replies and say a quick "thanks".

I am in awe ... truly grateful for the sincere, truthful and compassionate replies that were given. This is exactly what I needed and I'm so grateful that you were willing to share your experience with me (and anyone else that is reading this thread). There is something so real about people that have/are in the process (a forever process) of looking at themselves with open eyes and hearts - it's a difficult thing to do and takes a lot of courage, strength and faith. Trust me, I do know.

As I sit here this morning, all I can say is that my heart hurts ... for my husband and for every sweet soul out there that will forever fight this demon, whether sober today or still struggling. The amount of pain and heartache I am feeling, I'm am sure, does not compare to the pain my husband is feeling (or drowning) today and everyday. I'm sad for the spouses, the parents, the kids, and everyone else that has watched their loved one disappear before their eyes.

So, what am I doing for ME? In addition to reading about alcoholism (and obviously asking questions) I am in the process of reading Codependent No More (I tried reading it a long time ago and just didn't "get it" ... looking back, I think it's more so that I just wasn't ready to ADMIT that I was codependent ... funny how that works, huh?). I am trying to find a sitter to watch my daughter Monday evenings so I can attend AlAnon (I have no family where I live and have done a lot of isolation myself from friends over the past few years). I've gone back to church (something I was once faithful about), I'm taking better care of myself, my daughter and my two dogs. I'm getting things done that I've put off for years now. I'm getting back into hobbies that I used to love ... like photography and furniture refinishing. Ond day at a time.

I DO miss my husband ... his voice, his smile. I hope deep inside he knows that I love him. More than anything though, I want him to have the best chance possible to find himself and figure out his life ... and I know in order for him to do that we are both best on our own.

Hugs and prayers to ALL of you.
With all sincerity,
"The Wife"

liv1ce

Nicely stated. I also feel for you.

tammy711

Based on personal experience, if your functioning, 34 year old, vodka drinking, AH doesn't break the addiction cycle, he likely won't live another decade. As you've read, alcoholism is a progressive disease. That's a scientific fact!

Your AH will have to want to get sober, he'll have to want it or it won't happen. I've been through it. I've watched loved ones, very dear loved ones die directly due to their alcohol use. It is senseless, but it is the fate or our disease if we don't treat it properly.

Your AH wishes he could quit. Likely in the morning, when he rises for work, he thinks about quitting or at the very least cutting back. But he can't, and quitting is too hard to fathom. His alcohol use hasn't caused him enough grief yet. In his mind, he's controlling it, not the other way around. Oh the lies we loved to tell ourselves! :- )

I was a functioning alcoholic. It is amazing what us drunks can accomplish. I was continuously promoted throughout my active alcoholism - during mid 20's thru my early 40's.

I usually started drinking at lunch and didn't stop until I passed out. I was a chardonnay drinker. I would fill Mountain Dew bottles with my chardonnay and sip on them throughout the day including during meetings.

When I had a presentation, I had a minimum of 2 - 3 glasses beforehand. When I look back at my career and wonder how I got away with it, I guess I just worked smart. Morning's were my productive time. I was also in a position to delegate. Also, because I usually passed out, the alcohol woke me back up around 3:00 - 4:30 AM and I got right to work. By noon the cycle started all over.

I never had a memory past about 7:00 - 7:30 PM. It can make for awkward moments with the family. I mostly stayed quiet to learn what I might have said or done.

So, how do we do it? I really don't know. How did we stop? It is all individual.

I wish you well. I will pray for you and for your AH.

mdh0723

Tammy,

Thank you so much! I will pray for you too.

*HUGS*
Michelle

Threshold

I have a little insight into a couple of your questions as both a recovering addict myself and the recently girlfriend of an active alcoholic.

how do we manage to function all day and get drunk/wasted every night. Meaning we carry on our job but tank on our relationships. Well, one is that we realize that if we don't have a job we can't afford our next drink or fix. That is a big motivation for us to pull ourselves together, as much as we can, as long as we can. It's like holding our breath..we get through the day and get home and whew, we let it all out and pick up a drink. All day we've been waiting for the moment when we could stop putting on our "OK" mask and lose ourselves in drunkeness.

We learn to do without relationships, because we can. We can lose them and STILL drink and drug. If we lose our jobs...not so much.

One day we get to a point where we can't stay functional, but as long as we can hide it, hide from anything that might get in the way of us and quitting, we do it. For some that is going to work, for others it is lying, cheating and stealing. We do what it takes to maintain our habits. Heck. I was stealing the dogs tranquilizers!

I think it's fine and normal that you still love him, and care about him. That doesn't mean you have to let him take you down with him. That doesn't mean you should dole out money and let him sleep on your couch if he calls you sloppy drunk some time. I think praying for him is a wonderful idea. I pray (in my own manner) for my boyfriend. I truly want the best for him, and also own that I cannot manufacture "best" for him, or deliver it to him.

I also believe that he loves me, but...alcohol has him by the short hairs and feelings are fine and well, but they are NOT what partnerships are made of. Love is cooperation. Not just a feeling, he has the feelings, but the actions of love are drowned in alcohol. During a recent sober period (8 weeks) he told me that the reason he avoided me prior to that was that spending time with me kept him from drinking. He just wanted to hurry home, get drunk and forget about everything. I was, in a sense, an enemy because I threatened his relationship with alcohol.

He felt sorry, more feelings, that he treated me that way...but again, sorry needs to be action, not just a feeling. He managed to put love and sorrow into his relationship with booze, but not his relationship with me.

he even uses his "feelings" towards me as an excuse to drink "I love you but I'm a bad boyfriend, I'm a failure so I need to get drunk."

"I'm sorry that I treat you badly because I am drunk...I'm a sh*t...so I may as well punish myself by getting drunk."

I recognize the behavior, I told myself all manner of crazy things when I was using and drinking, including that drinking and drugging WERE loving actions because they were the only way I could make it through the day and thus care for my family. Then I felt like a failure, so I had to get drunk so I could stop that feeling, and so it went, on and on. Then I was worthless so I had to OD so I would no longer be a drain on my family...bleh

Hope those experiences help offer some perspective