Arrested Development
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Bethlehem, PA.
Posts: 1,781
Arrested Development
I often heard it said that if a person starts drinking heavily at a certain age they will revert to that stage of emotional develpoement when they finally stop. I don't know if that's true in all things tho. The raw statement makes it sound like someone that started drinking at 18 and stopped at 45 would then revert back to the mind of an 18 year old. That's just silly as we all know because time marches on and we have no choice but to go along for the ride.
What I did notice when I finally threw in the towel was that without alcohol/drugs in my bag of tricks my coping skills were horrible. All of the fear based stuff was also a lot more deeply embeded in my psyche than it should have been for someone my age. I doubt that's true for everyone but it was in my case. Anyone else notice any arrested development in any area of their lives.
What I did notice when I finally threw in the towel was that without alcohol/drugs in my bag of tricks my coping skills were horrible. All of the fear based stuff was also a lot more deeply embeded in my psyche than it should have been for someone my age. I doubt that's true for everyone but it was in my case. Anyone else notice any arrested development in any area of their lives.
Laozi Old Man
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Detroit, MI
Posts: 6,665
Originally Posted by BackToSquareOne 
... Anyone else notice any arrested development in any area of their lives.
I needed to learn how love, listen and leave-alone others as if I were still engaging in sophomoric behavior.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Bethlehem, PA.
Posts: 1,781
This might sound strange but my biggest goal was sort of a quest to be "normal". I eventually came to the startling conclusion that I really had no idea what normal even was, still havn't totally figured that one out.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 1,422
Hey Square One, interesting post. I've never heard that before.
I find it incredibly hard to take any one/thing seriously. I was a clown drunk an I'm a clown now I'm sober, with this lame teenage fk 'em if they can't take a joke attitude. I can't believe I don't get hit more often. Other grownups have mortgages, pensions, children. I'm 36, but I act like a 12yr old.
...but I don't know that care about working on/changing that. Which kind of fits I guess...
Still
I find it incredibly hard to take any one/thing seriously. I was a clown drunk an I'm a clown now I'm sober, with this lame teenage fk 'em if they can't take a joke attitude. I can't believe I don't get hit more often. Other grownups have mortgages, pensions, children. I'm 36, but I act like a 12yr old.
...but I don't know that care about working on/changing that. Which kind of fits I guess...
Still
Member
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 1,146
'Young adolescents tend to:
1. Be easily offended and are sensitive to criticism of personal shortcomings.
2. Be erratic and inconsistent in their behavior; anxiety and fear are contrasted with periods of bravado; feelings shift between superiority and inferiority.
3. Be moody; restless; often feel self-conscious and alienated; lack self-esteem; be introspective.
4. Be optimistic, hopeful.
5. Be psychologically at risk; at no other point in human development is an individual likely to meet so much diversity in relation to self and others.
6. Be searching for adult identity and acceptance even in the midst of intense peer-group relationships.
7. Be searching to form a conscious sense of individual uniqueness—“Who am I?”
8. Be vulnerable to naïve opinions, one-sided arguments.
9. Exaggerate simple occurrences and believe that personal problems, experiences, and feelings are unique to themselves.'
Yeah, maybe there is something to it. If you really want to seriously agitate a bunch of immature alcoholics, talking about the various aspects of the subject will usually do it just fine.
What I've noticed is a big difference in the sober alcoholics who had a long period of social drinking before crossing the line into alcoholism later in life. They went through the normal maturing process and learned those lessons.
Alcoholics like myself who took off from the gate in our early teens needed to learn much about those things after we sober up. Very clear difference in maturity levels.
Not the end of the world though. I feel I can now hold my own with the maturity level among any group of normal 42 year olds.
1. Be easily offended and are sensitive to criticism of personal shortcomings.
2. Be erratic and inconsistent in their behavior; anxiety and fear are contrasted with periods of bravado; feelings shift between superiority and inferiority.
3. Be moody; restless; often feel self-conscious and alienated; lack self-esteem; be introspective.
4. Be optimistic, hopeful.
5. Be psychologically at risk; at no other point in human development is an individual likely to meet so much diversity in relation to self and others.
6. Be searching for adult identity and acceptance even in the midst of intense peer-group relationships.
7. Be searching to form a conscious sense of individual uniqueness—“Who am I?”
8. Be vulnerable to naïve opinions, one-sided arguments.
9. Exaggerate simple occurrences and believe that personal problems, experiences, and feelings are unique to themselves.'
Yeah, maybe there is something to it. If you really want to seriously agitate a bunch of immature alcoholics, talking about the various aspects of the subject will usually do it just fine.
What I've noticed is a big difference in the sober alcoholics who had a long period of social drinking before crossing the line into alcoholism later in life. They went through the normal maturing process and learned those lessons.
Alcoholics like myself who took off from the gate in our early teens needed to learn much about those things after we sober up. Very clear difference in maturity levels.
Not the end of the world though. I feel I can now hold my own with the maturity level among any group of normal 42 year olds.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Toronto
Posts: 205
I was very much in "arrested development" while drinking for 10 years. The only thing I managed to do in that time was go to college and even that and the ensuing career path afterwards pretty much blew up in my face for various reasons, many directly tied to excessive drinking.
Now 56 days sober I have a fairly long list of things to get done that will get me to the living standard I should have been enjoying 5 or 6 years ago, minimum. I won't say I have reverted back to age 21 when I started boozing but I would agree with age 25-26 (I am 31).
I think a better way to put it (at least in my scenario) would be that your development pretty much stopped when you picked up the bottle, or got put on cruise control to destruction in other cases where people had everything and lost it.
Now 56 days sober I have a fairly long list of things to get done that will get me to the living standard I should have been enjoying 5 or 6 years ago, minimum. I won't say I have reverted back to age 21 when I started boozing but I would agree with age 25-26 (I am 31).
I think a better way to put it (at least in my scenario) would be that your development pretty much stopped when you picked up the bottle, or got put on cruise control to destruction in other cases where people had everything and lost it.
~sb
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: MD
Posts: 15,967
I know I can be immature, and I know how a group of recovering alcoholics can act when sitting around and chatting (specifically before a meeting). It's like being in a room full of adolescents! Just an observation.
I don't know about other people, but for me, as responsible as I've been through my childhood, I can be ridiculously immature, specifically in social situations. Isn't life full of social situations? Yeah, I can maintain a level of "adult" when necessary, but more often than not, I'm what I call "silly."
I don't know about other people, but for me, as responsible as I've been through my childhood, I can be ridiculously immature, specifically in social situations. Isn't life full of social situations? Yeah, I can maintain a level of "adult" when necessary, but more often than not, I'm what I call "silly."
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Bethlehem, PA.
Posts: 1,781
I was in rehab back in the 90's and the one langkah mentioned about being easily offended was very noticable in that group of people. Kind of like I'm going to take my toys and go home because someone made a nasty remark. Some of the people would refuse to attend the group therapy sessions because they didn't like certain comments. It was like grade school only with adults.
Encourager In Training
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: KS
Posts: 717
Originally Posted by BackToSquareOne
I often heard it said that if a person starts drinking heavily at a certain age they will revert to that stage of emotional develpoement when they finally stop.
For a 35-year old addict who beats an addiction s/he picked up at 15 to still be at exactly that point psychologically is highly unlikely.
Similarly, it is highly unlikely this 35-year old is as psychologically mature as s/he would have been without the addiction.
I suspect there's a pretty wide distributon of where former addicts fall between these two bookends.
Forward we go...side by side-Rest In Peace
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Serene In Dixie
Posts: 36,740
Hmm...
For me, it was not when I started drinking but about when I slid
into active addiction. That I consider was 5 years and began at 47.
My brain was saturated...depression was daily. I could no longer find the joy
in anything. It was a dark time.
Once I did quit.....at 52...I regained my sanity and did not feel
"regressed" on any level
I did find new joy and a different perception of what is important to me...
.
Perhaps because I was older? Darn if I know.
For me, it was not when I started drinking but about when I slid
into active addiction. That I consider was 5 years and began at 47.
My brain was saturated...depression was daily. I could no longer find the joy
in anything. It was a dark time.
Once I did quit.....at 52...I regained my sanity and did not feel
"regressed" on any level
I did find new joy and a different perception of what is important to me...
.Perhaps because I was older? Darn if I know.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Bethlehem, PA.
Posts: 1,781
Originally Posted by Ranger
I believe there's an element of truth to this. But, like many legitimate concepts, it has been bastardized to the extreme case of a person being developmentally frozen from the date of his/her first drink.
For a 35-year old addict who beats an addiction s/he picked up at 15 to still be at exactly that point psychologically is highly unlikely.
Similarly, it is highly unlikely this 35-year old is as psychologically mature as s/he would have been without the addiction.
I suspect there's a pretty wide distributon of where former addicts fall between these two bookends.
For a 35-year old addict who beats an addiction s/he picked up at 15 to still be at exactly that point psychologically is highly unlikely.
Similarly, it is highly unlikely this 35-year old is as psychologically mature as s/he would have been without the addiction.
I suspect there's a pretty wide distributon of where former addicts fall between these two bookends.
Yes I agree Ranger, you couldn't be frozen in time unless you were in a coma. There probably are a ton of factors that would play into each individuals development or lack thereof.
I was watching one of those prison shows a while ago and they were talking about people who were let out after very long sentences. The strange thing was some of them didn't want to leave and would commit other crimes to get back in. I thought that sounded kind of odd but if that's the only life they have come to know it must be tough to just get tossed out into the world.
The very long term alcoholic/addict has much the same dilema. Different scale but similar issues. A person who has lost everything to substance abuse isn't frozen in time per se, more like lost in a world that went on without them. Reacclimating to a sober all the time life can be like entering the twilight zone depending on how far you've taken the thing.
Grateful to be free
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Arizona
Posts: 3,680
Yes, no, no yes, no...ugh
I am arrested in emotional development at stages way earlier than when I started drinking, drugging etc. Those were end stages of the game, my reaction to the terror of being a lost little kid trying to deal with the demands of life.
I was never "normal" then started drinking. I was never normal to begin with. I had one of "those" childhoods.
There are truly, honestly and deeply many ways in which I am 2 yrs old, 4 yrs old and a LOT of me is 17.
I learned through sheer grit and self discipline to hide it well and "act" mature, but inside...no way.
I had to act like a grown up when I was a small child. I never actually learned how to be a grown up and address life. I feel like it's pretty late in the game now...46.
I started drinking and drugging because I was overwhelmed, a scared little kid trying to address the challenges of adult life. After awhile I couldn't act my way out of it. There are some situations you just cant fake.
I am arrested in emotional development at stages way earlier than when I started drinking, drugging etc. Those were end stages of the game, my reaction to the terror of being a lost little kid trying to deal with the demands of life.
I was never "normal" then started drinking. I was never normal to begin with. I had one of "those" childhoods.
There are truly, honestly and deeply many ways in which I am 2 yrs old, 4 yrs old and a LOT of me is 17.
I learned through sheer grit and self discipline to hide it well and "act" mature, but inside...no way.
I had to act like a grown up when I was a small child. I never actually learned how to be a grown up and address life. I feel like it's pretty late in the game now...46.
I started drinking and drugging because I was overwhelmed, a scared little kid trying to address the challenges of adult life. After awhile I couldn't act my way out of it. There are some situations you just cant fake.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Bethlehem, PA.
Posts: 1,781
Originally Posted by Threshold
Yes, no, no yes, no...ugh
I am arrested in emotional development at stages way earlier than when I started drinking, drugging etc. Those were end stages of the game, my reaction to the terror of being a lost little kid trying to deal with the demands of life.
I was never "normal" then started drinking. I was never normal to begin with. I had one of "those" childhoods.
There are truly, honestly and deeply many ways in which I am 2 yrs old, 4 yrs old and a LOT of me is 17.
I learned through sheer grit and self discipline to hide it well and "act" mature, but inside...no way.
I had to act like a grown up when I was a small child. I never actually learned how to be a grown up and address life. I feel like it's pretty late in the game now...46.
I started drinking and drugging because I was overwhelmed, a scared little kid trying to address the challenges of adult life. After awhile I couldn't act my way out of it. There are some situations you just cant fake.
I am arrested in emotional development at stages way earlier than when I started drinking, drugging etc. Those were end stages of the game, my reaction to the terror of being a lost little kid trying to deal with the demands of life.
I was never "normal" then started drinking. I was never normal to begin with. I had one of "those" childhoods.
There are truly, honestly and deeply many ways in which I am 2 yrs old, 4 yrs old and a LOT of me is 17.
I learned through sheer grit and self discipline to hide it well and "act" mature, but inside...no way.
I had to act like a grown up when I was a small child. I never actually learned how to be a grown up and address life. I feel like it's pretty late in the game now...46.
I started drinking and drugging because I was overwhelmed, a scared little kid trying to address the challenges of adult life. After awhile I couldn't act my way out of it. There are some situations you just cant fake.
Your post really cuts to the chase Threshold, many of us have issues stacked on top of issues which makes trying to figure it all out seem like an exercise in futility. We're told to quit drinking and everything will get better, we do that and it doesn't all get better so we often go back to alcohol which only tosses more frustration into the mix.
You can't fake happy, well you can try but deep down you know something's amiss. I wish there was a magic wand you could wave that would bring everything into alignment, if there is I havn't found it.
Feeling lost in a world full of demands, not knowing what your next move is supposed to be is tough duty. I guess all you can do is try your best, roll with the flow and whatever will be will be. Not much consolation, I know.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Paris, France
Posts: 79
I'm not sure I have anything I have anything to add to this discussion but I just want to say that this is a very interesting post and a good example of why I like these discussion boards. Thanks guys. x
once in a . . .
Join Date: May 2004
Location: looking in / looking out
Posts: 1,214
wow - this thread is freaking me out - I think I seriously thought it was "Just ME"!
(I think that may be a young teen trait?)
I had one of “those” childhoods and started DRINKING at 15. Got sober at 34. First heard the Arrested Development “theory” 5 years later and thought it was stupid. Then I realized that I was dressed EXACTLY as I had been at 15yo – blue jeans, loose t-shirt, HUGE baggy flannel shirt to hide myself in.
(and I’ll tell ya a secret – I STILL dress that way at the age of 54!)
I relate more with my almost-14yo g-daughter than I do with her dad/my son . . . her outbursts make sense to me . . . his scare me . . . I really AM about 14-15yo still. But after being “this age” for so long, I’m kinda used to it and don’t REALLY wanna change . . . but that could be a “young teen” trait as well!
Thank you for a VERY interesting discussion!
Blue
(I think that may be a young teen trait?)
I had one of “those” childhoods and started DRINKING at 15. Got sober at 34. First heard the Arrested Development “theory” 5 years later and thought it was stupid. Then I realized that I was dressed EXACTLY as I had been at 15yo – blue jeans, loose t-shirt, HUGE baggy flannel shirt to hide myself in.
(and I’ll tell ya a secret – I STILL dress that way at the age of 54!)
I relate more with my almost-14yo g-daughter than I do with her dad/my son . . . her outbursts make sense to me . . . his scare me . . . I really AM about 14-15yo still. But after being “this age” for so long, I’m kinda used to it and don’t REALLY wanna change . . . but that could be a “young teen” trait as well!
Thank you for a VERY interesting discussion!
Blue
Member
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: in the shadow of the rockies
Posts: 338
i am not sure about any brain chemistry involved- from my experience the "lack of emotional development " had a lot to do with avoiding as much 'grown up' consequences as i could. For instance: my idea of dealing with bills was to stack them up on my desk. Then stack them up on the floor. Then burn them in the woodstove. [kinda think i handled relationships the same way]
Basically it was a "me first" mentality more appropriate to a 13 yr old than to a 44 yr old. And , while abusing mind altering substances, i really had no incentive to rethink/retrain that personality. And it is obvious that a personality focused on using already suffers from one hell of a priority mix up... add to that skewed priority: a predilection for risky behavior, ducking responsibilty for my actions, an outlandish view of my "rights" ....well, its a picture , again. more suited to an adolescent than to an adult. And the teen at least , has the biological excuse that their brain has overdeveloped and is now discarding gray matter from parietal , temporal etc brain areas.
I have heard it said that much of the work [i do 12 step] in recovery is simply a matter of learning to be a grown up.
could be we are again slouching towards the discussion of which engenders which? [was i born an alcoholic? ]
Basically it was a "me first" mentality more appropriate to a 13 yr old than to a 44 yr old. And , while abusing mind altering substances, i really had no incentive to rethink/retrain that personality. And it is obvious that a personality focused on using already suffers from one hell of a priority mix up... add to that skewed priority: a predilection for risky behavior, ducking responsibilty for my actions, an outlandish view of my "rights" ....well, its a picture , again. more suited to an adolescent than to an adult. And the teen at least , has the biological excuse that their brain has overdeveloped and is now discarding gray matter from parietal , temporal etc brain areas.
I have heard it said that much of the work [i do 12 step] in recovery is simply a matter of learning to be a grown up.
could be we are again slouching towards the discussion of which engenders which? [was i born an alcoholic? ]
Adventures In SpaceTime
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Posts: 5,827
Originally Posted by Threshold
I was never "normal" then started drinking. I was never normal to begin with. I had one of "those" childhoods.
Naturally of course, now I'm having one of "those" adulthoods.
Choosing Life
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Montana
Posts: 1,435
Fascinating stuff. I actually had my first drink at age 3 (I had a stomach ache and my alcoholic mother thought it would be a good idea to give me a beer to settle my stomach ... beer in a Flintstone juice glass .... I'll never forget that image, even today). I don't think I'm stuck in life as a 3 year old...
However, in my teen years, I did become a "partier." My friends and I always had alcohol, whether someone bought it for us or we had parties at my house when my parents were out of town and we'd raid their liquor cabinet. I had my first blackouts then. "Partied" heavily all through college, and then basically quit in my late 20's to work, get married and raise kids. Had almost nothing to do with alcohol again until my mid-40's, when the stresses of life started to pile up.
So if I had to examine where my development may have been "arrested," it probably was my teens. In so many ways, I feel like I am experiencing all of the teenage "angst" stuff that I don't think I really went through when I actually was a teenager ... the social awkwardness, the uncertainty of who I am and what I want to do in life, the insecurity and feelings of inadequacy, wanting people to like me ... oh and yes, the immaturity.
However, in my teen years, I did become a "partier." My friends and I always had alcohol, whether someone bought it for us or we had parties at my house when my parents were out of town and we'd raid their liquor cabinet. I had my first blackouts then. "Partied" heavily all through college, and then basically quit in my late 20's to work, get married and raise kids. Had almost nothing to do with alcohol again until my mid-40's, when the stresses of life started to pile up.
So if I had to examine where my development may have been "arrested," it probably was my teens. In so many ways, I feel like I am experiencing all of the teenage "angst" stuff that I don't think I really went through when I actually was a teenager ... the social awkwardness, the uncertainty of who I am and what I want to do in life, the insecurity and feelings of inadequacy, wanting people to like me ... oh and yes, the immaturity.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Bethlehem, PA.
Posts: 1,781
If anyone really sat back and did the deep introspection it probably wouldn't be that hard to pick out the various ages, events, traumas, life experiences or whatever that contributed to the mix of things that shaped the final product. The totality of who we are is contained in our collection of memories, that giant data bank that's stored in our brain. If you could erase that entire hard drive (your brain) to its primal state, untouched by experience would there even be a you? Does the collection of experiences determine who we are or does who we are fashion and form the experiences? I kind of think it's a dance, an interplay, one with the other.
If our brains record everything, does the horrific stuff get stored away as demons that come out to play every now and then, knock around our brains and say "here we are, just checking in". Can those demons manifest as all kind of mental health issues? Can they be exorcised, locked up in a cage and forgotten?
So can development be altered by many things, I think so. I believe it's often more than just one causitive factor tho, more like the branch that can hold only so much snow and ice until it finally snaps. The brain may not snap but it might cease to develop in a linear or normal manner. Too many drug/alcohol baths, PTSD, stress, depression/anxiety, all of it probably contribute to the mix.
If our brains record everything, does the horrific stuff get stored away as demons that come out to play every now and then, knock around our brains and say "here we are, just checking in". Can those demons manifest as all kind of mental health issues? Can they be exorcised, locked up in a cage and forgotten?
So can development be altered by many things, I think so. I believe it's often more than just one causitive factor tho, more like the branch that can hold only so much snow and ice until it finally snaps. The brain may not snap but it might cease to develop in a linear or normal manner. Too many drug/alcohol baths, PTSD, stress, depression/anxiety, all of it probably contribute to the mix.
Currently Active Users Viewing this Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
