DaveVelasco

Well, in certain possible ways, it could be true. As an example, when an 18 year old started drinking at his age and then stopped at 45, he may be weary that he did not enjoy being a teenager in sobriety - making him to be like 18 yr old in development when he stopped at age 45.

eJoshua

Yeah, I'd always heard that too: when you are drinking you don't mature so when you quit you have the emotional maturity of whenever you started drinking. I think it's interesting conceptually, but like many of those things you hear about in recovery, it's not quantifiable. What scale are you using for emotional maturity? How can you measure it? All in all it's just a clever concept designed to help explain the sometimes inexplicable nature of addiction.

I do know this, though. In some ways when I was drinking I was unable to learn or grow, because often I would run away from experiences or situations that I interpreted to be painful. These experiences surely would have contributed to my growth as a human being and my emotional maturity, so you could say that in some ways I robbed myself of that.

Interesting topic.

Justfor1

I first picked up a drink at 15. I'm 35 now & if I still acted like I did at 15 I would of died in my addiction. I was extremely good at reading other peoples emotions. I was always scamming people for money. Family, friends & even strangers. At the end though I couldn't even do that anymore. I knew that was the end then.

Threshold

Growing up, is something I am very curious about. It seems that it might be the solution to many of my issues. But I am unclear how to go about it.

I faked it, acted mature but was not really grown up.

Now I know I must actually grow up, and hardly know where to start.

How did you grow up?

BackToSquareOne

I'd also like to see more responses on how one "grows up". Defining growing up almost seems like defining "normal". Lets use the pat answer, "taking responsibility for your actions", so you do that, does an epiphany occur because you agree to carry your own baggage? No, probably not.

I'm learning that "acceptance" on so many levels is also a very large piece of the puzzle. This means accepting the fact that bad things do happen to good people. That you do get dealt the short straw or losing tickets in lifes lottery, it's not all peaches and cream. How you deal with adversity can teach you more about yourself than how you deal with the good stuff. Just some thoughts...

Threshold

This is where my "psychic split" takes place. I deal with it as in meet my responsibilities. Then afterwards...I go off and use in one form or another, because the feelings, even after I've done my bit scare the crap out of me.

i think that part of it is that I still feel guilty and "not enough" even though I have done what I could, and often done it very well. The old voices of childhood haunt me. Not enough, never enough, won't matter how hard you work, you'll never amount to anything. That is what I am trying to "medicate" away, not the responsibility.

That is what I mean when I say I fake it, act grown up, but clearly something is missing. Self acceptance for sure, but where does that come from? Why do I not take pride in what I've accomplished? Why am I an under self evaluator? I achieve plenty, but I don't take credit, demand or even ask for appropriate compensation etc.

How do I grow that part of myself up?

eJoshua

I think of growing up as moving from self-centeredness to selfless living. Putting the needs of others first is a good indicator of emotional maturity.

RobbyRobot

Yeah, my childhood haunts me still.

Circumstances forced my growing up way too early, you know? And now, of course, it all seems too late, okay? What a stupid paradox, lol.

And yet, I am not dismayed. Mine eyes have seen more then my mind can comprehend is all. My ears are selectively deaf. My feelings are deep and slow. My thoughts are quick and clever. 'Tis true I am undone, and yet not without justice as my final reward.

My psyche is more then its individual parts and pieces all separated out and stamped "done with. moving on." The sums of me are greater then the whole of me. I know myself yet darkly through a glass eye.

I have every hope even after three decades of doing the next right thing I still have so much more to live for then what is now behind me everlasting.

I have one final medical apocalypse this summer and I'm hyped and stoked and I'm all over it

Guilt is such a small inadequate word to describe so much hidden rottenness. Soon enough, this warm and lovely summer, after 42 years, I finally will accomplish and make real a cornucopia of deeply intimate amends to me, myself, and I.

Awesome. There is light to see if I but only look and behold!

Threshold

I truly believe I have done that and I still feel like a little kid. What am I missing? Am I just lying to myself?

The years as mom, teacher, volunteer, committee member, friend...was that all some sort of window dressing?

I can act emotionally mature, but how do I BE emotionally mature.

I've heard the saying "you can't think your way into right action, but you can act your way into right thinking."

Why hasn't this worked? What the heck am I not doing that I need to be doing?

No, I am not selfless because someone has to take care of me, and that someone is me. I do honestly like people, enjoy engaging with them and truly want them to have the best life experience they can. But yes, I do take care of myself because to NOT is to put an unfair burden on someone else.

eJoshua

And there's the million dollar question.

I don't think that being selfless means that you ignore your own needs. It's like being on an airplane during loss of cabin pressure, you have to put your own oxygen mask on before you can help others.

midgetcop

I'm a little late to this thread, and I definitely think the idea has some merit to it. I began drinking at 15, and right from the start we hit it off. I'd always been a shy, somewhat self-possessed kid, and alcohol was an easy way for me to socialize, "come out of my shell", and get attention. I was a "different" girl than most - I was a major tomboy. I was also smaller than most kids. Although I never tried to be anything I wasn't, I was almost apologetic for my uniqueness. I used alcohol to try and gap that bridge to others.

But now at 30 I feel like I never got the chance to grow up. And I don't mean in the sense of taking responsibility for myself and my actions - that's never been a problem. But I never felt like I was able to learn how to develop relationships and friendships in a "normal" way.

I've never felt like an "adult". I always feel like a kid when I'm interacting with other adults, even when we're similar in age and status. I defer to others' authority and automatically take on the role as the inferior, naive little girl.

It's interesting to see that I may not be alone in my feelings.

wellwisher

I feel as though I am one who had to grow up way before I should have had to take on so much responsibility. Without getting into details, I felt I was overly responsible for everything - right down to what my parents were thinking and trying to cajole them out of their funks and their own alcoholic mindset, while trying to protect myself and my siblings from the barbs that were hurled at us every day, followed by the act of contrition made the following day when they were sober in the early morning. Talk about mixed messages. Having gone through my own alcoholic experience, I understand them and honestly have compassion for them. That wasn't always the case.

By the time I hit my 20's, I think I had a massive "revolution" that only came back to hit me in my head some ten years later. I did pretty much everything with abandon, held some pretty damn good jobs and had a nice waterfront apartment, and should have had it made, but managed to alienate family and friends from my life under the guise of righteous indignation. When someone crossed me, I tossed them out of my life like they were yesterday's newspaper. Didn't expect alcohol to backfire on me like it did. I was THE master of the silent treatment, and could cut anyone out of my life with nary a second thought (or so I thought). I guess you can say I regressed. It was infantile, to be sure. I was the center of my universe, and truly the only person I hurt was myself, because when I kept surgically removing people from my life, the natural outcome would be that I was alone.

I also think that I never gave anything freely; if I gave something to someone, there was definately a string attached; and if you didn't show quite enough appreciation, in my eyes you were "dead" and "cut off". In my own mind, I kept giving and giving and no one appreciated it.

Trust was a big issue for me. I wasn't very good at giving trust. I either blurted my entire life story out to people, or I witheld everything and shared none of me. It took me a long time to learn that I can hold people very close to me or at arm's length, and it was a lesson I had to learn well because it was what I had to learn to keep from being alone anymore.

So much of what we do to recover is an inside job. If I kept believing I was no good, I was worthless, I was less than, I would probably not be around. My experience has been that in order for anything to get better, I had to stop downing the booze or stop using the substance, because no matter what type of work I tried to do on myself, I kept adding alcohol and taking giant steps back. (Hate to admit it, but I was a drunk dialer under the impression that I was speaking the truth while being absolutely polluted). What was revealed to me after I quit drinking was the template that I had to talk to a professional about. I needed medication for quite some time. The therapist was instrumental in helping me learn some life skills and boundary setting skills. He wasn't the first therapist I found, and I sure did kiss a few toads before I found him. I had to be relentless in my recovery; even when I felt like throwing in the towel, because I had hope. Contrary to what I did to myself daily, I did have a desire to live, even though I didn't know what I wanted to live for.

Trust me, I faked it until I made it. I used to always feel lonely even when surrounded by a roomful of people. Not anymore. It was kind of like peeling a blooming rose petal. I had to pull the rose out of the swamp, let it dry out, rip off all the dead petals on the outside, reveal the vulnerable inside, and nurture it. What was revealed to me through my process and with the help of others has made me a grateful, recovered alcoholic.

Sorry if I rambled, but when it comes to the societal ills that some children experience that force them to grow up too fast and at the expense of their self-esteem, I like to give the message that because we experience what we experience in our childhood doesn't necessarily equate to a lifetime of misery. We can succeed in SPITE of what was experienced. When the voices in our head tell us we're not good enough, we're no good, that we don't deserve a happy life; know them to be the lies that they are.

Be relentless, and have hope. Truth is I wouldn't have even been able to give anyone that simple message twenty years ago.

Pigtails

Yes, I noticed this too. I have no sense of responsibility, no discipline, very little coping skills or control over my emotions and impulses. I recently watched the movie "Young Adult" and I totally thought it was about me!! At least, the me-before-I-quit drinking, and I am still stunted emotionally and in many ways think and act like a teenager (even though I didn't start drinking until I was 18, and didn't drink heavily/alcoholically for some years after that).
For me all the mental health and emotional issues are inter-related to the alcoholism, and I have to start taking better care of myself and doing what I know I should do rather than just what I want to do.

muffin1707

That was beautifully said and written. Thank you Wellwisher. Great job.