Help or advice with dependency versus abuse
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Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 7
Help or advice with dependency versus abuse
First off, I want to thank the forum in general. I stumbled onto the forum a few months back and it was one of the primary catalysts to help me get over the gap between wondering if I had a problem to knowing that I did. I have not touched a drop for 9 weeks now.
In retrospect though, I wonder if what I had was a 'problem' or a 'dependency'. Quitting brought no physical or strong mental urges. I had no 'detox' symptoms. I missed drinking frequently for about 2 weeks...then periodically...and now only infrequently. When I do miss it now, it has nothing to do with wanting to catch a buzz, but more to try a unique beer or have a glass of wine at a restaurant. Any sadness I had about quitting centered much more around losing some hobbies (home brewer, craft beer and small time wine connoisseur). I also spent (spend) much more time worrying about how to handle social situations at work or talking to my parents about my issue (yes, had an uncle who had deep alcoholism and depression until he took his life...so understandibly, my mother will be very shaken up when I tell her)..
I have the fantasy of changing my relationship with alcohol so that I can drink a beer at a work dinner, or share a glass of wine over the holidays with family. It would be so much easier be able to manage this than to have to create worry with family members, or have to answer the awkward questions from work peers. I have no interest in returning to a regular pattern of drinking or drinking more than one, maybe two drinks in a setting.
Does anyone have any good resources to help me really understand what I had going on and whether this fantasy is something that I could ever attempt or not?
My story is generally that over the past 4-5 years I started drinking more than at occasional social events. It grew from a healthy interest in comparative wine and beer tasting, to drinking alone sometimes in a hotel on a business trip, to sneaking a good buzz about 2 or sometimes 3 times per week on average. Nobody really knew that I was doing it (wife, who now knows didn't suspect anything and was completely surprised when I told her). I was drinking for 'release and relaxation'. Never to the point of being sick, but usually to the point of being well buzzed (usually 1-1.25 bottles of wine or equivalent). I was starting to have some mild and short blackouts. Very occasionally I might have felt a little trembly in the morning, but it was never visible at all. I never drank in the morning, during the day, nor did I ever drink and drive. I'd feel slightly hungover after my nights of drinking...but usually just a mild headache and not feeling entirely 'with it' most of the day.
I know that these are not good signs, and I recognized them and made the decision to back away from booze. But, how feasible would it be for me to be able to hit a 'reset' button on my relationship with alcohol so that I could partake very minimally in the future. This is my primary question. I know it can be a slippery slope, so if I ever tried it, I know that it would have to be a very disciplined approach and an understanding that if it slipped, I would have failed the experiment and would have to quit for good.
Any thoughts or resources to point me to?
Many thanks in advance!
In retrospect though, I wonder if what I had was a 'problem' or a 'dependency'. Quitting brought no physical or strong mental urges. I had no 'detox' symptoms. I missed drinking frequently for about 2 weeks...then periodically...and now only infrequently. When I do miss it now, it has nothing to do with wanting to catch a buzz, but more to try a unique beer or have a glass of wine at a restaurant. Any sadness I had about quitting centered much more around losing some hobbies (home brewer, craft beer and small time wine connoisseur). I also spent (spend) much more time worrying about how to handle social situations at work or talking to my parents about my issue (yes, had an uncle who had deep alcoholism and depression until he took his life...so understandibly, my mother will be very shaken up when I tell her)..
I have the fantasy of changing my relationship with alcohol so that I can drink a beer at a work dinner, or share a glass of wine over the holidays with family. It would be so much easier be able to manage this than to have to create worry with family members, or have to answer the awkward questions from work peers. I have no interest in returning to a regular pattern of drinking or drinking more than one, maybe two drinks in a setting.
Does anyone have any good resources to help me really understand what I had going on and whether this fantasy is something that I could ever attempt or not?
My story is generally that over the past 4-5 years I started drinking more than at occasional social events. It grew from a healthy interest in comparative wine and beer tasting, to drinking alone sometimes in a hotel on a business trip, to sneaking a good buzz about 2 or sometimes 3 times per week on average. Nobody really knew that I was doing it (wife, who now knows didn't suspect anything and was completely surprised when I told her). I was drinking for 'release and relaxation'. Never to the point of being sick, but usually to the point of being well buzzed (usually 1-1.25 bottles of wine or equivalent). I was starting to have some mild and short blackouts. Very occasionally I might have felt a little trembly in the morning, but it was never visible at all. I never drank in the morning, during the day, nor did I ever drink and drive. I'd feel slightly hungover after my nights of drinking...but usually just a mild headache and not feeling entirely 'with it' most of the day.
I know that these are not good signs, and I recognized them and made the decision to back away from booze. But, how feasible would it be for me to be able to hit a 'reset' button on my relationship with alcohol so that I could partake very minimally in the future. This is my primary question. I know it can be a slippery slope, so if I ever tried it, I know that it would have to be a very disciplined approach and an understanding that if it slipped, I would have failed the experiment and would have to quit for good.
Any thoughts or resources to point me to?
Many thanks in advance!
Administrator
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 211,454
I think all of us dream of returning to drinking at some point in sobriety, Pedro.
but I think all of us here who exhibited a problem drinking behaviour, found we could not turn the clock back to a time before those problems materialised.
Not feasible at all in my experience.
I hope you don't try it frankly - but if you're going to do it, at least stick with those parameters, Pedro.
D
but I think all of us here who exhibited a problem drinking behaviour, found we could not turn the clock back to a time before those problems materialised.
But, how feasible would it be for me to be able to hit a 'reset' button on my relationship with alcohol so that I could partake very minimally in the future.
This is my primary question. I know it can be a slippery slope, so if I ever tried it, I know that it would have to be a very disciplined approach and an understanding that if it slipped, I would have failed the experiment and would have to quit for good.
D
Member
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 35
I was similar to you. Not exactly the same - but similar.
I tried moderation. I was committed to it.
I wrote down my "plan" and walked through it with my wife.
I can't remember the exact details, but it was along the lines of "no more than 1 drink per hour, and a max of 6 drinks in one night. alternate drink with water. Use a breathalyzer to make sure BAC is never over 0.05"
I executed the moderation plan.
The problem is that it wasn't fun. In fact, it was mild torture.
I didn't want 1 drink in the 1st hour. I wanted 4 or 5.
It felt like putting a big juicy steak in front of me, but only eating one bite.
Over time, I found myself doing little cheats.
The drinks got "bigger".
Evolved plan to 2 drinks in 1st hour, then 1 per hour afterwards.
Keep BAC below 0.08 instead of 0.05
After a couple of years, I realized that moderation didn't work for me, and I went back to my alcoholic drinking.
And then 5 months ago I decided to quit for good. No fantasies of moderation. I had tried moderation, and it didn't work. I was either going to drink or not - black and white - no grey. I think I needed to try moderation to figure out it indeed didn't work for me. this was a likely important step in my path towards quitting.
So I quit, and it's the best decision I ever made.
I tried moderation. I was committed to it.
I wrote down my "plan" and walked through it with my wife.
I can't remember the exact details, but it was along the lines of "no more than 1 drink per hour, and a max of 6 drinks in one night. alternate drink with water. Use a breathalyzer to make sure BAC is never over 0.05"
I executed the moderation plan.
The problem is that it wasn't fun. In fact, it was mild torture.
I didn't want 1 drink in the 1st hour. I wanted 4 or 5.
It felt like putting a big juicy steak in front of me, but only eating one bite.
Over time, I found myself doing little cheats.
The drinks got "bigger".
Evolved plan to 2 drinks in 1st hour, then 1 per hour afterwards.
Keep BAC below 0.08 instead of 0.05
After a couple of years, I realized that moderation didn't work for me, and I went back to my alcoholic drinking.
And then 5 months ago I decided to quit for good. No fantasies of moderation. I had tried moderation, and it didn't work. I was either going to drink or not - black and white - no grey. I think I needed to try moderation to figure out it indeed didn't work for me. this was a likely important step in my path towards quitting.
So I quit, and it's the best decision I ever made.
12-Step Recovered Alkie
Join Date: May 2010
Location: West Bloomfield, MI
Posts: 5,797
Originally Posted by Pedro123 
Does anyone have any good resources to help me really understand what I had going on and whether this fantasy is something that I could ever attempt or not?
Any thoughts or resources to point me to?
Any thoughts or resources to point me to?
Search your past, your recent history for a quick double-check -- cuz, ya see, we're all different. Some have just a minor problem moderating it whereas for others, moderation is impossible. Some can quit by setting their mind to it....others need more. Some need to work recovery program x, or y or z while others can't or won't and they end up dying from alcoholism (suicide is a biggie in the world of alcoholics).
If your recent history doesn't convince you......or if you're unsure of the results........try some controlled/moderated drinking. I mean, it's pretty simple, right? Either you can or you can't find that reset button. My last drink of alcohol was of the "controlled/social drinking variety." I could pull it off...... 3 beers, no more.....over a couple hours. For an alcoholic of my type - controlled drinking sucks. It's really, honestly, a waste of my time. If I can't get a buzz or get smashed, there's just no sense in doing it at all.
--for alcoholics, I can tell you for sure there's no reset button anymore...it's gone forever. Thankfully, recovery is much cooler than drinking WITH moderation and control ever was so really, for ppl like me who are recovered alcoholics..... we wouldn't trade what we've got for the old drinking days anyway (even IF we could).
Member
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 1,146
You sound like someone who has a good shot at doing what you describe you'd like to do.
If you find yourself changing your mind and having more than one, that's a red flag and I'd suggest stopping again.
Obviously if you find yourself after a few months back in your old pattern then that's a place you didn't want to be and would indicate at minimum a drinking problem.
Good luck, and stay safe.
If you find yourself changing your mind and having more than one, that's a red flag and I'd suggest stopping again.
Obviously if you find yourself after a few months back in your old pattern then that's a place you didn't want to be and would indicate at minimum a drinking problem.
Good luck, and stay safe.
Administrator
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Dancing in the Light
Posts: 61,517
There is no reset button.
As the most elegant Betty Ford said, 'Once we cross the invisible line, there is no going back."
And, alcoholism is not about how much you drink or how often, but it's more about what happens to you when you drink. You talk about having blackouts. That's serious stuff. Alcoholism is a progressive disease.
As the most elegant Betty Ford said, 'Once we cross the invisible line, there is no going back."
And, alcoholism is not about how much you drink or how often, but it's more about what happens to you when you drink. You talk about having blackouts. That's serious stuff. Alcoholism is a progressive disease.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 7
Good advice all around. Thanks to all for the thoughts.
I'm not committing to trying this...just want to consider exploring it. And I know that this is a progressive disease and that I may very well have the disease versus just a problem.
If I did try to do a moderated approach, I'm talking about no more than 2 drinks in any one sitting, and only on rare occasions throughout the year (like 4-5 times per year max). I know that even if it did start there, there is a chance that it slips into more. So I'm not taking this lightly.
I was fully able to drink just one drink in a session and stop before. I could do two and stop. Every drink beyond that made me want to drink a little more, but I was always able to stop before any kind of blackout or passing out. I sound like I'm trying to justify, which isn't the intent. I just really question whether I was over the 'invisible line' or not. I know there is no real definite answer to that question though.
Thanks again for the thoughts. I'm going to keep thinking about it. I may very well decide to just take the final plunge and come out of the closet on this. I was just trying to avoid creating the pain and concern that close relatives may feel, and to a lesser degree to hopefully try to avoid awkwardness with work peers. In either case, I'm going to keep checking in here regularly because it is a great resource and reminder of what could be if I let this slip.
I'm not committing to trying this...just want to consider exploring it. And I know that this is a progressive disease and that I may very well have the disease versus just a problem.
If I did try to do a moderated approach, I'm talking about no more than 2 drinks in any one sitting, and only on rare occasions throughout the year (like 4-5 times per year max). I know that even if it did start there, there is a chance that it slips into more. So I'm not taking this lightly.
I was fully able to drink just one drink in a session and stop before. I could do two and stop. Every drink beyond that made me want to drink a little more, but I was always able to stop before any kind of blackout or passing out. I sound like I'm trying to justify, which isn't the intent. I just really question whether I was over the 'invisible line' or not. I know there is no real definite answer to that question though.
Thanks again for the thoughts. I'm going to keep thinking about it. I may very well decide to just take the final plunge and come out of the closet on this. I was just trying to avoid creating the pain and concern that close relatives may feel, and to a lesser degree to hopefully try to avoid awkwardness with work peers. In either case, I'm going to keep checking in here regularly because it is a great resource and reminder of what could be if I let this slip.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Columbus, Ohio
Posts: 645
Pedro,
There is no need to explain your choice to abstain from drinking to anyone -- family, work peers, neighbors, acquaintances, etc. Most people don't really care, frankly. We are more concerned about drinking or not than those around us. If asked, you can say any number of things: I'm trying to have a healthier lifestyle, I'm watching my diet, My doctor told me not to drink because it isn't good for my health, It doesn't agree with me, etc. My experience is that most people never even ask.
I think many of us have entertained moderate drinking after a period of abstinence. I tried a "controlled drinking experiment" of two drinks, every day, no more, no less for six months -- then quit abruptly for several months. That was the challenge suggested to me by some old-timers in AA. So I religiously measured out two drinks every evening for six months then quit abruptly.
Happy dance. I decided I wasn't alcoholic. I decided I had made too much of my periodic binge drinking episodes in graduate school. I wasn't going to give drinking another thought or worry. The moment I let go of trying to control my drinking is when I came to realize that my drinking was out of control. The truth I learned is that anything you have to control is already out of control. And "control" is an illusion.
Within months of the experiment, I was drinking daily (to excess) and binging on the weekends (to great excess). It is an all or nothing thing for me -- there is no such thing as moderation as much as I might wish or want or hope. I don't know when I crossed that invisible line, but I did. Some people cannot safely drink --ever -- and I am one of those people. I wish you well, whatever you decide to do.
Susan
There is no need to explain your choice to abstain from drinking to anyone -- family, work peers, neighbors, acquaintances, etc. Most people don't really care, frankly. We are more concerned about drinking or not than those around us. If asked, you can say any number of things: I'm trying to have a healthier lifestyle, I'm watching my diet, My doctor told me not to drink because it isn't good for my health, It doesn't agree with me, etc. My experience is that most people never even ask.
I think many of us have entertained moderate drinking after a period of abstinence. I tried a "controlled drinking experiment" of two drinks, every day, no more, no less for six months -- then quit abruptly for several months. That was the challenge suggested to me by some old-timers in AA. So I religiously measured out two drinks every evening for six months then quit abruptly.
Happy dance. I decided I wasn't alcoholic. I decided I had made too much of my periodic binge drinking episodes in graduate school. I wasn't going to give drinking another thought or worry. The moment I let go of trying to control my drinking is when I came to realize that my drinking was out of control. The truth I learned is that anything you have to control is already out of control. And "control" is an illusion.
Within months of the experiment, I was drinking daily (to excess) and binging on the weekends (to great excess). It is an all or nothing thing for me -- there is no such thing as moderation as much as I might wish or want or hope. I don't know when I crossed that invisible line, but I did. Some people cannot safely drink --ever -- and I am one of those people. I wish you well, whatever you decide to do.
Susan
12-Step Recovered Alkie
Join Date: May 2010
Location: West Bloomfield, MI
Posts: 5,797
Originally Posted by Pedro123
I was fully able to drink just one drink in a session and stop before. I could do two and stop. Every drink beyond that made me want to drink a little more, but I was always able to stop before any kind of blackout or passing out. I sound like I'm trying to justify, which isn't the intent. I just really question whether I was over the 'invisible line' or not. I know there is no real definite answer to that question though.
I was just trying to avoid creating the pain and concern that close relatives may feel, and to a lesser degree to hopefully try to avoid awkwardness with work peers.
Be careful, keep an eye on it and try to be honest with yourself. Like I said earlier, you can either do it or you can't. Don't get caught up in "excuses" either like: triggers, bad day, good day, happy, depressed, "he" showed up, "she" showed up, he/she left, got the job, didn't get the job, etc. None of those things ever made me, for example, drive to Detroit and shoot heroine........but I used to think those sorts of things "made" me drink all the time. .....they were all lies I told myself because there was alllllllways something new that "made me do it." Maybe you're just a situational abuser though....and by avoiding certain situations you can keep it under control.
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Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: « USA » Recovered with AVRT (Rational Recovery) ___________
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Originally Posted by susanlauren
There is no need to explain your choice to abstain from drinking to anyone -- family, work peers, neighbors, acquaintances, etc.
I'm here to learn!
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Originally Posted by Pedro123
I have the fantasy of changing my relationship with alcohol
If you want my advice it sounds like you are try to your way into drinking again. Any time rationalization is involved you know that something is wrong.
What are you really missing by not drinking? I'm not missing anything. Really, home brewing? wine tastings? Sharing a glass of wine with your family? Shouldn't your family time be about spending time with family and not drinking?
The way you talk about drinking sounds very much like how I used to romanticize my own relationship with alcohol. For me, it wasn't until I got used to the idea that I was done with drinking that I was able to move on with my life. I look back now at those fantasies that I used to have and realize how silly they all seem. I did homebrewing, I did wine tastings, I did all that stuff, but what it came down to for me was all about finding an activity that surrounded drinking and alcohol because I loved drinking.
You can do what you want, but I would be careful, because it sounds like your alcoholic brain is telling you some very crafty lies.
Good luck
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Oh, and one other point: don't get too hung up on semantics: problem vs disease vs dependency vs whatever. All that matters is if you drank an unhealthy amount and if you want to not drink like that again. Who cares what you call it or how you label it?
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 7
Again, great stuff here guys. I really appreciate it.
I'm just going to let this simmer for awhile. I have no need to make any kind of decision right now, so I will just continue with abstinence for now until things become clearer in my own mind. I really am excited to get to a few milestones anyway (like 100 days without a drop and my weight loss which has progressed nicely and my plan to get back into half marathons this spring...all positive stuff). I have a couple of 'tough' situations coming up with work that typically involve a lot of drinking in the evenings. I have my plan in place and I am not planning to drink. I want to get through that and a couple of other 'triggering events' in the short term anyway.
Thanks again everyone for the great perspective!
I'm just going to let this simmer for awhile. I have no need to make any kind of decision right now, so I will just continue with abstinence for now until things become clearer in my own mind. I really am excited to get to a few milestones anyway (like 100 days without a drop and my weight loss which has progressed nicely and my plan to get back into half marathons this spring...all positive stuff). I have a couple of 'tough' situations coming up with work that typically involve a lot of drinking in the evenings. I have my plan in place and I am not planning to drink. I want to get through that and a couple of other 'triggering events' in the short term anyway.
Thanks again everyone for the great perspective!
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