Could have screamed!!!!!
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Join Date: Feb 2009
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Obsession is a disease. In the medical books it's called OCD. Obsessive Compulsive Disorder. There is treatment, and medicines for that. A disorder, A disease. A choice. An addiction. What ever you want to call it, or what ever the medical books call it, it creates alot of problems for the users. Some people under the influence do things that they normally wouldn't do. They fall down,they fight,they get violent,they drive drunk,attack their spouses,some even kill. You name it. Nothing surprises me coming from a person who has consumed alcohol.
Some people have higher tolerance to it than others.
Where one person can have a few drinks and be perfectly fine,loving and amorous, and be happy and laughing. Another person can have a couple of sips, and become a violent maniac. Like I said before. It depends on that persons brain, and how it reacts to the alcohol. We are all different.
I could be wrong. I'm not a doctor or an addiction specialist, but I personally think that the obsession to use the alcohol, is what makes it a disease. The person has no control over the desire to use it. That person can't think of anything else, while craving the alcohol.
Like I said before, When the pull to use, is stronger than the understanding of the consequences. Regardless of what ever problems arose from their last drinking episode. There could have been a death involved, a near fatal beating, a rape, a car crash, anything. And the drinker is horrified and ashamed. In trouble and facing charges, and jail time. But yet, can't think of anything else but drinking.
When the user doesn't even want to drink or use anymore, but still goes to get it and drink it, and then hates him or herself for doing it. They feel that they are powerless. Their brain tells them to go and get it. Even if they don't want to.
However, another person, who doesn't have that compulsion and problem feels they are not powerless. That they do have a choice. And that choice is not to drink. And not to go and get it.
The alcoholics brain cannot be reasoned with. Just like drug addicts in active addiction. We can talk until we are blue in the face. It goes in one ear, and out the other. Am I making any sense??
Some people have higher tolerance to it than others.
Where one person can have a few drinks and be perfectly fine,loving and amorous, and be happy and laughing. Another person can have a couple of sips, and become a violent maniac. Like I said before. It depends on that persons brain, and how it reacts to the alcohol. We are all different.
I could be wrong. I'm not a doctor or an addiction specialist, but I personally think that the obsession to use the alcohol, is what makes it a disease. The person has no control over the desire to use it. That person can't think of anything else, while craving the alcohol.
Like I said before, When the pull to use, is stronger than the understanding of the consequences. Regardless of what ever problems arose from their last drinking episode. There could have been a death involved, a near fatal beating, a rape, a car crash, anything. And the drinker is horrified and ashamed. In trouble and facing charges, and jail time. But yet, can't think of anything else but drinking.
When the user doesn't even want to drink or use anymore, but still goes to get it and drink it, and then hates him or herself for doing it. They feel that they are powerless. Their brain tells them to go and get it. Even if they don't want to.
However, another person, who doesn't have that compulsion and problem feels they are not powerless. That they do have a choice. And that choice is not to drink. And not to go and get it.
The alcoholics brain cannot be reasoned with. Just like drug addicts in active addiction. We can talk until we are blue in the face. It goes in one ear, and out the other. Am I making any sense??
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Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Earth
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Originally Posted by DayTrader 
What's "health insurance?" 
LOL..... That's a good one. Not to many of us know. We need to ask Obama that question. That was his promise to us all. My husband and I pay through the nose for ours, and then after our fat bill at the end of every month, we still need to pay for prescriptions & doctor and hospital visits if needed.
LOL:rotfxko
Forward we go...side by side-Rest In Peace
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Serene In Dixie
Posts: 36,740
Hmmm...
For anyone intered in alcoholism or recovery...
I auggest following Jane's plan "Under The Influence" was the book that opened my eyes
and convinced me to finally quit drinking.
The nutritional plan is worth the small cost
Amazon usually has both books.
for sharing with respect for others thoughts.
For anyone intered in alcoholism or recovery...
I auggest following Jane's plan
I am going to read the book Under the Influence/Beyond the Influence to try to gain more understanding of alcoholism.
and convinced me to finally quit drinking.
The nutritional plan is worth the small cost
Amazon usually has both books.
for sharing with respect for others thoughts.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 242
Originally Posted by Supercrew
One of the reasons I never labeled myself an acoholic in the past was because I didn't need it everyday. At the end when I quit I was drinking 4 or 5 days a week normally 6-12 beers during the day, and about 20-30 oz of vodka at night. I could stop for a day or three, but looked forward to my next drink. I drank about the same amount for 2.5 years, unless I was out with the boys( 2 or 3 times a month), then it could be 6-10 pitchers of beer, 3 or 4 shots, and then home to drink 20-30 oz of vodka before bed. Where I got tripped up on the alcoholic definition was I thought it was someone whose body required them to drink daily, and I could stop for a week or two if I had a physical coming up, and I quit for a year when the courts told me I had to 8 years ago. So I figured I could really quit anytime I wanted to, which was true, and pretty easy.....unless I had booze in my system. If I had 1-3 beers and I cut myself off I would just want to go to sleep, if I had 4 or more I was drinking to get my fill, and that's where I started to lose control of how much and for how long I would drink, if I was still drunk when I woke up I would want to drink more.
My question is, (even though I am not really into the label thing), would I be considered an alcoholic, or just a problem drinker? I always thought I was just a heavy drinker who liked to drink alot and drink often. After a long night or a couple of hard days in a row I would get the shakes, but I just considered those a symptom of a bad hangover. Please let me know what you think I would clinically be considered. (I'm still staying sober either way, because either way alcohol isn't good for me or my relationships).
My question is, (even though I am not really into the label thing), would I be considered an alcoholic, or just a problem drinker? I always thought I was just a heavy drinker who liked to drink alot and drink often. After a long night or a couple of hard days in a row I would get the shakes, but I just considered those a symptom of a bad hangover. Please let me know what you think I would clinically be considered. (I'm still staying sober either way, because either way alcohol isn't good for me or my relationships).
Then I realized I was drinking more and more. I graduated from wine to vodka. (I started drinking vodka while I was on a low carb diet and realized I could hide it better than drinking wine so I switched permanently. You would think that would have been a big scary clue that I had a problem, eh?)
There are many reasons that I am now choosing sobriety... but I will touch on the journey of discovery I have been undertaking.
I am a smoker. When I don't have a cigarette I start obsessing about it after a few hours. My body craves it, my mind craves it. I am addicted to cigarettes. I have the exact same feeling about alchohol, just not all the time. I can go days without drinking, but when the urge hits it is almost painful. If I am trying to resist the urge, my body gets all twitchy, for lack of a better description. I get really irritated. If I have made the decision to go pick up a bottle, the twitchy feeling goes away and I am fine, just knowing that I am soon going to feed my addiction.
Once I have that first drink, I want more. I do believe this is the crux of my problem. While most people could have a few and stop, I become obsessed with how much liquor I have left in the house. Is it enough to keep drinking? If it's not, I have to really argue with myself about not needing to go get more. I have finally come to the conclusion that just because I don't drink all day long every day doesn't mean that I don't have a problem. My problem is just different than some others. There are people that would make the argument that I have a bigger problem than someone who just maintains a steady buzz all the time, because I drink to the blackout stage.
Now back to the original intent of this thread: I tend to believe in personal accountability and hate the idea that anyone is helpless against their addiction. I agree that we all have the choice to take that first drink, after that I think the reaction in our bodies does take away our free will, but we make the choice to give away our control.
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I'm addicted to nicotine as well, I don't smoke, but have been "dipping" since I was 13 or so. I have also quit nicotine for a year or so, when I quit drinking. I obviously have a very addictive personality. I too adhere to the low carb diet hence the vodka and lite beer.
Obviously it is in my best interest to quit all of the chemicals, but when you live a lifestyle for 25+ years it's hard as hell to just up and change, even if it isn't an addiction, it became a way of life just for the sheer number of years I have drank and chewed. It became my persona. But now the sober persona seems to be fitting me pretty well!
Obviously it is in my best interest to quit all of the chemicals, but when you live a lifestyle for 25+ years it's hard as hell to just up and change, even if it isn't an addiction, it became a way of life just for the sheer number of years I have drank and chewed. It became my persona. But now the sober persona seems to be fitting me pretty well!
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Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 242
Originally Posted by Supercrew
I'm addicted to nicotine as well, I don't smoke, but have been "dipping" since I was 13 or so. I have also quit nicotine for a year or so, when I quit drinking. I obviously have a very addictive personality. I too adhere to the low carb diet hence the vodka and lite beer.
Obviously it is in my best interest to quit all of the chemicals, but when you live a lifestyle for 25+ years it's hard as hell to just up and change, even if it isn't an addiction, it became a way of life just for the sheer number of years I have drank and chewed. It became my persona. But now the sober persona seems to be fitting me pretty well!
Obviously it is in my best interest to quit all of the chemicals, but when you live a lifestyle for 25+ years it's hard as hell to just up and change, even if it isn't an addiction, it became a way of life just for the sheer number of years I have drank and chewed. It became my persona. But now the sober persona seems to be fitting me pretty well!
You give me hope
Another Day in Paradise
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Upland, CA
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This thread made me think, again, about my dislike of the term disease. I have been without a drink almost 11 years; sober most of that time as well. I say that because I firmly believe that there is no way to start sobriety until YOU PUT DOWN the drink. That is your decision and yours alone. You absolutely have to decide not to drink and then follow through with the decision.
YOU HAVE TO STOP DRINKING BY YOURSELF, however YOU DON'T HAVE TO DO IT ALONE.
When a person asks me what they need to get sober I always tell them, "Stop drinking." That is the choice, the treatment of our condition as alcoholics, (notice no use of the word disease), the treatment is support and the ability to alter our behavior. That treats the alcoholism and allows the resolve to "not drink" to take hold.
It is in my opinion, all about OUR CHOICE and will never be a condition that someone else can cure, or I think even treat effectively for any length of time. We need to "treat" our lives, not our drinking, and if you agree with that logic then we are retraining our brains and our actions and reactions to life, not booze. Can't everyone use some behavior modification? If so, then everyone in this wacky world is in need of treatment and we as alcoholics just stand out because our reaction to a life not well lived is more visible than someone who sits in a dark room and worries about their life problems.
In short, I have always believed that the reason so many people can't wrap their minds around the term "disease" when dealing with an alcoholic is the choice that civilians use to deal or not deal with their own dragons is often a less destructive and less visible crutch than alcohol. If nail biters or knuckle poppers were socially unacceptable then there would be a debate about those "vices." The disease of nail biting just doesn’t sound all that dire.
It starts with an individual choice and continues with a belief and reliance on others and in my opinion some sort of power that can be relied upon in times of indecision and crisis.
Just my thoughts,
Jon
YOU HAVE TO STOP DRINKING BY YOURSELF, however YOU DON'T HAVE TO DO IT ALONE.
When a person asks me what they need to get sober I always tell them, "Stop drinking." That is the choice, the treatment of our condition as alcoholics, (notice no use of the word disease), the treatment is support and the ability to alter our behavior. That treats the alcoholism and allows the resolve to "not drink" to take hold.
It is in my opinion, all about OUR CHOICE and will never be a condition that someone else can cure, or I think even treat effectively for any length of time. We need to "treat" our lives, not our drinking, and if you agree with that logic then we are retraining our brains and our actions and reactions to life, not booze. Can't everyone use some behavior modification? If so, then everyone in this wacky world is in need of treatment and we as alcoholics just stand out because our reaction to a life not well lived is more visible than someone who sits in a dark room and worries about their life problems.
In short, I have always believed that the reason so many people can't wrap their minds around the term "disease" when dealing with an alcoholic is the choice that civilians use to deal or not deal with their own dragons is often a less destructive and less visible crutch than alcohol. If nail biters or knuckle poppers were socially unacceptable then there would be a debate about those "vices." The disease of nail biting just doesn’t sound all that dire.
It starts with an individual choice and continues with a belief and reliance on others and in my opinion some sort of power that can be relied upon in times of indecision and crisis.
Just my thoughts,
Jon
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The word disease. DIS EASE The first time or two it's a choice for the drinker. After the chemical ethanol soaks into the brains pleasure sensors, and altars the brains own natural chemicals of seratonin and dopamine. That's when things change. When the drinker becomes obsessed, and cannot think of anything else regardless of the consequences. When that person goes to get alcohol, even though he or she doesn't want to use it. Buys it, drinks it, then hates him or herself for drinking it. THEN It's a DIS EASE. When the desire and obsession to get it and use it is greater than the repercussions.
I hope I'm making sense.
I hope I'm making sense.
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There is no doubt in my mind that the only problem I have is my body enjoys the feeling of a buzz, and once buzzed my brain screams for more...even if I am as drunk as I can get. My drunken mind has this disease that tells my body to pour more poison down my throat. When I'm sober, no disease...no problem. As I read in another post today, I think alot of it has to do with my ego. I don't like to admit that I am weak when it comes to my self control even if I am drunk. Once I got past the ego thing and decided that I didn't need a drink to begin with, the "disease", miraculously disappears. It might be a brain disorder when I am under the influence, (lack of serotonin or just the pure want to feel high), but I am sure most people who have other diseases wish they could just not drink from a specific bottle and make it go away. So if this is the only "disease" I have, I should consider myself lucky.
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Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Mississippi
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It's hard not to agree with everyone's comments, because they're all good points. I think I would prefer the word "condition" but I also like the word disease because it sure does feel like one! Diseases don't have to be physical - they can also be mental. And they also require treatment of some kind. Seeking that treatment is our responsibility. And once we accept treatment, it's our job to maintain it, just like a diabetic would.
There are specific requirements for something to be called a disease. I'm sure it's on the internet somewhere. The ones I remember are: It's chronic, progressive if not treated, has a predictable course and has symptoms. It also seems to be linked to genetics.
I found an interesting short article:
Alcohol & Drug Treatment :: The Disease Model of Drug Addiction & Treatment
There are specific requirements for something to be called a disease. I'm sure it's on the internet somewhere. The ones I remember are: It's chronic, progressive if not treated, has a predictable course and has symptoms. It also seems to be linked to genetics.
I found an interesting short article:
Alcohol & Drug Treatment :: The Disease Model of Drug Addiction & Treatment
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Very good point artsoul. Addiction is mostly a mental disease,condition, or whatever you want to call it. If a person stops using drugs or alcohol it is out of their system within 3 days. That's when the mental obsession takes over. And yes, I keep saying, dis-ease.
Life is not easy when you have an addiction. And it seems to make sense to me. Everybody has their own opinion, and they are all valuable.
Life is not easy when you have an addiction. And it seems to make sense to me. Everybody has their own opinion, and they are all valuable.
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Originally Posted by artsoul
There are specific requirements for something to be called a disease. I'm sure it's on the internet somewhere. The ones I remember are: It's chronic, progressive if not treated, has a predictable course and has symptoms. It also seems to be linked to genetics.
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Attention: this is relevant! Too bad someone didn't say it this way sooner.
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Wren, not to hijack this thread, but the link that artsoul put on this thread, has the requirements that label whether it is a disease or not. Maybe you could click on the article and read it. And the part about genetics, I believe that's so true. Alot of families have generations of addiction in their families.
I just think that there will always be a difference of opinion on this topic.
The funny thing is that everyone thinks that their way is the right way.
I think that's funny. I can admit that I don't know if I am right or not. But I am always willing to learn.
I just think that there will always be a difference of opinion on this topic.
The funny thing is that everyone thinks that their way is the right way.
I think that's funny. I can admit that I don't know if I am right or not. But I am always willing to learn.
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Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 48
Originally Posted by Sugar82
I am desperately sorry to admit this but I myself have said that I don't believe in alcoholism...and yet here I am seeking help for my own problem with it.
After all, it IS a choice. We have to make the choice whether to drink or not to drink, to get sober or not, but the difference is what happens after an alcoholic drinks and the train-wreck that inevitably occurs.
Perhaps this lady was just putting up a front as well? Or perhaps she really doesn't know about the disease?
After all, it IS a choice. We have to make the choice whether to drink or not to drink, to get sober or not, but the difference is what happens after an alcoholic drinks and the train-wreck that inevitably occurs.
Perhaps this lady was just putting up a front as well? Or perhaps she really doesn't know about the disease?
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Originally Posted by Angelic17
Wren, not to hijack this thread, but the link that artsoul put on this thread, has the requirements that label whether it is a disease or not. Maybe you could click on the article and read it. And the part about genetics, I believe that's so true. Alot of families have generations of addiction in their families.
I just think that there will always be a difference of opinion on this topic.
The funny thing is that everyone thinks that their way is the right way.
I think that's funny. I can admit that I don't know if I am right or not. But I am always willing to learn.
I just think that there will always be a difference of opinion on this topic.
The funny thing is that everyone thinks that their way is the right way.
I think that's funny. I can admit that I don't know if I am right or not. But I am always willing to learn.
Adventures In SpaceTime
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Posts: 5,827
Whatever works for whoever. For me, I felt sick, my thinking was sick, my spirit was sick, and finally my actions were sick. Hmmm. Four for Four. Well, sick is sick, so straight up sounds like an illness, imo. LOL.
And the cure? The very thing that worsened my illness also cured it: alcohol. For a time being drunk was the answer that worked and so of course I drank. While my illness progressed my quality of life fell with the progression. Alcohol in a drunken stupor now did for me what just a few beer would have done before: make me happy. I was getting sicker and needed more alcohol because of my being ill. Hmmm. I can see where this is going: dead drunk like in dead dead. Death. Lousy cure.
Just deciding to not drink was sheer torture. My illness continued to destroy my quality of life even without the alcohol. I was still sick. Sobriety changed all that for me and did it without "curing" my sickness. Sobriety gave me a spiritual quality that healed my spirit. My healed spirit healed my mind. My body followed. My actions from living sober changed my quality of life and those changes are progressive too. It just keeps on getting better!
My alcoholism is an arrested illness. I am free. Done deal. Works for me.
RR
And the cure? The very thing that worsened my illness also cured it: alcohol. For a time being drunk was the answer that worked and so of course I drank. While my illness progressed my quality of life fell with the progression. Alcohol in a drunken stupor now did for me what just a few beer would have done before: make me happy. I was getting sicker and needed more alcohol because of my being ill. Hmmm. I can see where this is going: dead drunk like in dead dead. Death. Lousy cure.
Just deciding to not drink was sheer torture. My illness continued to destroy my quality of life even without the alcohol. I was still sick. Sobriety changed all that for me and did it without "curing" my sickness. Sobriety gave me a spiritual quality that healed my spirit. My healed spirit healed my mind. My body followed. My actions from living sober changed my quality of life and those changes are progressive too. It just keeps on getting better!
My alcoholism is an arrested illness. I am free. Done deal. Works for me.
RR
Sunny Side Up
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Sth Australia
Posts: 3,802
What Robby said:
I remember a few years ago my neice asked me "why wont mum stop drinking, I want her to get better". I remember my reply. "mum is really sick right now and Im hoping she will get better too"
It would never had occurred to me to say "oh mum has a disease" I dont know why but I always saw her as ill, sick you know..
But I always remember my sister saying to me "I have a disease, its generic and I was given this" I dont ever remember her telling me she had an addiction. This made me think somewhat. So, I guess its different for everyone. Would it had made any difference or helped her get sobriety - if everyone believed it was a "disease". Would it have made her feel any better if someone had stated medically that - alcoholism is a disease, (full stop) therefore this is why I am the way I am?
My father had "Parkinson Disease" (this is what I thought was a disease) I was 8 when he was diagnosed with it. Something he could not control, it was real, there and obvious. Affected him mentally and physically. It affected the whole family, he needed drugs to treat it. And his mother had this disease too.
Does sound very similar - doesnt it?
I remember a few years ago my neice asked me "why wont mum stop drinking, I want her to get better". I remember my reply. "mum is really sick right now and Im hoping she will get better too"
It would never had occurred to me to say "oh mum has a disease" I dont know why but I always saw her as ill, sick you know..
But I always remember my sister saying to me "I have a disease, its generic and I was given this" I dont ever remember her telling me she had an addiction. This made me think somewhat. So, I guess its different for everyone. Would it had made any difference or helped her get sobriety - if everyone believed it was a "disease". Would it have made her feel any better if someone had stated medically that - alcoholism is a disease, (full stop) therefore this is why I am the way I am?
My father had "Parkinson Disease" (this is what I thought was a disease) I was 8 when he was diagnosed with it. Something he could not control, it was real, there and obvious. Affected him mentally and physically. It affected the whole family, he needed drugs to treat it. And his mother had this disease too.
Does sound very similar - doesnt it?
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