Help Me to Understand: What is this "selfish" talk?
Help Me to Understand: What is this "selfish" talk?
Hello Everyone!
I'm pretty new here but I've been reading and posting a lot. Would someone be able to explain this word "selfish" that I keep seeing used to describe alcoholics? I had heard a lot of words to describe us before but never this one.
I think I kind of have any idea of what it's getting at. I would appreciate any input!
I'm pretty new here but I've been reading and posting a lot. Would someone be able to explain this word "selfish" that I keep seeing used to describe alcoholics? I had heard a lot of words to describe us before but never this one.
I think I kind of have any idea of what it's getting at. I would appreciate any input!
Member
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: London
Posts: 266
I am too selfish to share that secret with you Melinda...
Seriously, I am also interested -Perhaps because our obsession with drink makes us self-centered and in the best case scenario we have to get self-centered again around sobriety. Will read answers with interest...
Seriously, I am also interested -Perhaps because our obsession with drink makes us self-centered and in the best case scenario we have to get self-centered again around sobriety. Will read answers with interest...
Member
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,237
I know when I was drinking nothing really mattered but the alcohol....it came first....and anything that went along with it...it was all about ME.......not considering how others were affected by my drinking.....thats selfish.....just feeling entitled to get bombed and not realizing what the consequences might be....kinda like living in your own bubble.... and when you are in recovery it can be similar because you are focusing so much on yourself, but it's for the greater good...and you will find that you WANT to help others..so to me being in recovery isn't selfish it's self help!!
My drunk and my high came before anything or anyone else in my life. I protected it with everything I had, and it was very selfish. Most of what I did had to do with getting my next 'fix'.. at pretty much any cost to friends, family or most other obligations in life.
In recovery I have learned pretty well that the universe doesn't revolve around me, my needs, or my addictions.
In recovery I have learned pretty well that the universe doesn't revolve around me, my needs, or my addictions.
Your attitude, not your aptitude, will determine your altitude
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Oxnard (The Nard), CA, USA.
Posts: 13,955
As a person I have many traits, some good, some bad. One of the bad ones was my self-concern of getting plastered. That meant getting loaded was one of the most importing things to do. It came before family, friends and even my own personal safety.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Toronto, ON
Posts: 1,591
Melinda, I see it in more than one way. One of them is along the same lines as what has been said above about the addiction activity; how a session with the substance seems to trump everything else. Another has to do with how the addiction hooks itself onto the way we think. For example, have you ever quit (now or in the past) and something nice happens and you want to put a cherry on top? You didn't "want" to but the thought came along anyway? That's self-oriented. It doesn't mean a person was necessarily hurting somebody else, and it might not even be "greedy," but it's a way of thinking that involves constant self-application, self-medicating. You can have an alcoholic buying dinner for large groups of people (while sober) and demonstrating generosity. But that person can still suffer from being obsessed with their issues inside and feed the addiction that somehow regulates things, unreliably; and drink later. You can have someone who has nothing near an addiction being a money-hoarder and only taking from others and the self-interest there is a different kind; their brain doesn't necessarily depend on medicating their existence.
To me, it's not just a black and white "greedy" kind of selfish.
To me, it's not just a black and white "greedy" kind of selfish.
Hi Melinda,
This is taken from p62 of Alcoholics Anonymous (the Big Book). It explains why selfishness is our problem - the 12 steps are what we use to remove that problem.
Most people try to live by self-propulsion. Each person is like an actor who wants to run the whole show; is forever trying to arrange the lights, the ballet, the scenery and the rest of the players in his own way. If
his arrangements would only stay put, if only people would do as he wished, the show would be great. Everybody, including himself, would be pleased. Life would be wonderful. In trying to make these arrangements our actor may sometimes be quite virtuous. He may be kind, considerate, patient, generous; even modest and self-sacrificing. On the other hand, he may be mean, egotistical, selfish and dishonest. But, as with most humans, he is more likely to have varied traits.
What usually happens? The show doesn't come off very well. He begins to think life doesn't treat him right. He decides to exert himself more. He becomes, on the next occasion, still more demanding or gracious, as the case may be. Still the play does not suit him. Admitting he may be somewhat at fault, he is sure that other people are more to blame. He becomes angry, indignant, self-pitying. What is his basic trouble? Is he not really a self-seeker even when trying to be kind? Is he not a victim of the delusion that he can wrest satisfaction and happiness out of this world if he only manages well? Is it not evident to all the rest of the players that these are the things he wants? And do not his actions make each of them wish to retaliate, snatching all they can get out of the show? Is he not, even in his best moments, a producer of confusion rather than harmony?
Our actor is self-centered - ego-centric, as people like to call it nowadays. He is like the retired business man who lolls in the Florida sunshine in the winter complaining of the sad state of the nation; the minister who sighs over the sins of the twentieth century; politicians and reformers who are sure all would be Utopia if the rest of the world would only behave; the outlaw safe cracker who thinks society has wronged him; and the alcoholic who has lost all and is locked up. Whatever our protestations, are not most of us concerned with ourselves, our resentments, or our self-pity?
Selfishness - self-centeredness! That, we think, is the root of our troubles. Driven by a hundred forms of fear, self-delusion, self-seeking, and self-pity, we step on the toes of our fellows and they retaliate. Sometimes they hurt us, seemingly without provocation, but we invariably find that at some time in the past we have made decisions based on self which later placed us in a position to be hurt.
So our troubles, we think, are basically of our own making. They arise out of ourselves, and the alcoholic is an extreme example of self-will run riot, though he usually doesn't think so. Above everything, we alcoholics must be rid of this selfishness. We must, or it kills us! God makes that possible. And there often seems no way of entirely getting rid of self without His aid. Many of us had moral and philosophical convictions galore, but we could not live up to them even though we would have liked to. Neither could we reduce our self-centeredness much by wishing or trying on our own power. We had to have God's help.
This is taken from p62 of Alcoholics Anonymous (the Big Book). It explains why selfishness is our problem - the 12 steps are what we use to remove that problem.
Most people try to live by self-propulsion. Each person is like an actor who wants to run the whole show; is forever trying to arrange the lights, the ballet, the scenery and the rest of the players in his own way. If
his arrangements would only stay put, if only people would do as he wished, the show would be great. Everybody, including himself, would be pleased. Life would be wonderful. In trying to make these arrangements our actor may sometimes be quite virtuous. He may be kind, considerate, patient, generous; even modest and self-sacrificing. On the other hand, he may be mean, egotistical, selfish and dishonest. But, as with most humans, he is more likely to have varied traits.
What usually happens? The show doesn't come off very well. He begins to think life doesn't treat him right. He decides to exert himself more. He becomes, on the next occasion, still more demanding or gracious, as the case may be. Still the play does not suit him. Admitting he may be somewhat at fault, he is sure that other people are more to blame. He becomes angry, indignant, self-pitying. What is his basic trouble? Is he not really a self-seeker even when trying to be kind? Is he not a victim of the delusion that he can wrest satisfaction and happiness out of this world if he only manages well? Is it not evident to all the rest of the players that these are the things he wants? And do not his actions make each of them wish to retaliate, snatching all they can get out of the show? Is he not, even in his best moments, a producer of confusion rather than harmony?
Our actor is self-centered - ego-centric, as people like to call it nowadays. He is like the retired business man who lolls in the Florida sunshine in the winter complaining of the sad state of the nation; the minister who sighs over the sins of the twentieth century; politicians and reformers who are sure all would be Utopia if the rest of the world would only behave; the outlaw safe cracker who thinks society has wronged him; and the alcoholic who has lost all and is locked up. Whatever our protestations, are not most of us concerned with ourselves, our resentments, or our self-pity?
Selfishness - self-centeredness! That, we think, is the root of our troubles. Driven by a hundred forms of fear, self-delusion, self-seeking, and self-pity, we step on the toes of our fellows and they retaliate. Sometimes they hurt us, seemingly without provocation, but we invariably find that at some time in the past we have made decisions based on self which later placed us in a position to be hurt.
So our troubles, we think, are basically of our own making. They arise out of ourselves, and the alcoholic is an extreme example of self-will run riot, though he usually doesn't think so. Above everything, we alcoholics must be rid of this selfishness. We must, or it kills us! God makes that possible. And there often seems no way of entirely getting rid of self without His aid. Many of us had moral and philosophical convictions galore, but we could not live up to them even though we would have liked to. Neither could we reduce our self-centeredness much by wishing or trying on our own power. We had to have God's help.
Great question, Melinda...... Actually, I'm much more selfish in sobriety (in a good way, of course).
Alcohol limits our ability to be healthy people, obviously, but I think the concept of selfishnesss is a little more complex than what I get from the BB. My opinion only.
Alcohol limits our ability to be healthy people, obviously, but I think the concept of selfishnesss is a little more complex than what I get from the BB. My opinion only.
Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: chico, ca
Posts: 321
I'm not hurting anyone but myself so just leave me alone and let me do my own thing. That's the attitude I used to have. I never saw all the people I was hurting until I sobered up for a minute, then the shame and pain of what I'd actually done set in and I would drink, again and again. Thanks "intention" for taking the time and showing that page 62 from the Big Book. I had the greatest of intentions and the world judged me by my actions. It took a Power greater than me to help relieve me of that selfishness, of which I still exhibit occasionally to a far lesser degree. God Bless
Member
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Zion, Illinois
Posts: 3,411
Hello Everyone!
I'm pretty new here but I've been reading and posting a lot. Would someone be able to explain this word "selfish" that I keep seeing used to describe alcoholics? I had heard a lot of words to describe us before but never this one.
I think I kind of have any idea of what it's getting at. I would appreciate any input!
I'm pretty new here but I've been reading and posting a lot. Would someone be able to explain this word "selfish" that I keep seeing used to describe alcoholics? I had heard a lot of words to describe us before but never this one.
I think I kind of have any idea of what it's getting at. I would appreciate any input!
Member
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: nj
Posts: 541
Hello Everyone!
I'm pretty new here but I've been reading and posting a lot. Would someone be able to explain this word "selfish" that I keep seeing used to describe alcoholics? I had heard a lot of words to describe us before but never this one.
I think I kind of have any idea of what it's getting at. I would appreciate any input!
I'm pretty new here but I've been reading and posting a lot. Would someone be able to explain this word "selfish" that I keep seeing used to describe alcoholics? I had heard a lot of words to describe us before but never this one.
I think I kind of have any idea of what it's getting at. I would appreciate any input!
XA-Speakers - The lights are on!
Addiction/alcoholism is definitionally a fairly selfish thing. For me, all I did was focus on gratifying myself 24/7. Nothing more selfish than that.
Still, sometimes I get annoyed when people in AA throw around the selfish thing constantly. I mean, being selfless is certainly a good goal. But anything any human being does could be deemed as 'selfish.' Me writing this post for example. Look at me and my opinion!
Still, sometimes I get annoyed when people in AA throw around the selfish thing constantly. I mean, being selfless is certainly a good goal. But anything any human being does could be deemed as 'selfish.' Me writing this post for example. Look at me and my opinion!
It`s ok to stay sober
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Central NC
Posts: 20,902
selfishness,my concern with me and not thinking of you or others.Me first,always....
Our attention to ones own self and interests
egotistical
self in a alcoholic produces a delusion,we are delusional and it is all about us.We neglect our families,jobs,health,& responsibilities for a drink or to fed our egos off of others to satisfy some deep inner want or need self produces.We see life thru our distorted selfish mind and selfish thoughts.
it is a form of insanity
selfishness produces self seeking
a few questions to demonstrate my self seeking
1.what did I do to get what I wanted?
2.Whom did I hurt,besides myself?
3.How did I manipulate others to try and get what I wanted?
4.When I blew money on booze or drugs,did I realize how I was hurting my family financially?
my inconsiderateness to others is connected with my selfishness
when I first got sober,I had to be a little selfish because I had to stay sober,but as time rolls by,it becomes more unselfish and more selfish
Our attention to ones own self and interests
egotistical
self in a alcoholic produces a delusion,we are delusional and it is all about us.We neglect our families,jobs,health,& responsibilities for a drink or to fed our egos off of others to satisfy some deep inner want or need self produces.We see life thru our distorted selfish mind and selfish thoughts.
it is a form of insanity
selfishness produces self seeking
a few questions to demonstrate my self seeking
1.what did I do to get what I wanted?
2.Whom did I hurt,besides myself?
3.How did I manipulate others to try and get what I wanted?
4.When I blew money on booze or drugs,did I realize how I was hurting my family financially?
my inconsiderateness to others is connected with my selfishness
when I first got sober,I had to be a little selfish because I had to stay sober,but as time rolls by,it becomes more unselfish and more selfish
Member
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: north carolina
Posts: 74
All I know is that alcohol gradually became more important in my life, more important than my career, my friends, or myself. Amazing how sneaky this thing is that it can get to that level and still keep you in denial about it.
I may be more selfish now that I'm sober - I'm more selfish because I want to live a full and meaningful life, I want to have better relationships with my friends and family, and I want to do something to make the world a little better. I want all that, and that sounds more selfish than just sucking down bottle after bottle of wine.
I may be more selfish now that I'm sober - I'm more selfish because I want to live a full and meaningful life, I want to have better relationships with my friends and family, and I want to do something to make the world a little better. I want all that, and that sounds more selfish than just sucking down bottle after bottle of wine.
Even when we quit there's a selfish undertone.
What I lost, What happened to me, etc...
There's always another side.
My parents threw me out out. (must have been hell on mom to do that. I bet I've caused a million tears over the years)
Boss fired me. (firing people is never easy. I'm sure the Boss took my family into account when he made his decision)
Wife ran off with my kids. (wife had been through years of hell that nobody deserves. My kids also lost their dad that same day. They didn't deserve that either)
When we get over this selfishness we may see our impact on the lives of other people.
What I lost, What happened to me, etc...
There's always another side.
My parents threw me out out. (must have been hell on mom to do that. I bet I've caused a million tears over the years)
Boss fired me. (firing people is never easy. I'm sure the Boss took my family into account when he made his decision)
Wife ran off with my kids. (wife had been through years of hell that nobody deserves. My kids also lost their dad that same day. They didn't deserve that either)
When we get over this selfishness we may see our impact on the lives of other people.
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