Please tell me if these are "red flags"
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 105
Please tell me if these are "red flags"
Hello, All--I usually post on Friends and Family threads, as my husband of 27 years is divorcing me now and, although I am getting good help in my own co-dependent recovery, I still have questions about his use of alcohol and the effects on his and all our lives. I also have 4 grown and nearly-grown children about whom I am concerned.
For example, in couples' counseling (now ended), I listed alcohol as a "barrier to our relationship". He was very defensive and our counselor asked him if he thought he has a problem with alcohol. He said, "No, I do those on-line quizzes all the time and come out just fine. And because of my family history (father, grandfather and 3 of my husband's 6 siblings A's) I watch it very carefully because I never want to have to quit drinking." Red flag?
He admits depression re many issues, including his father's A behavior, but is divorcing me because, I "have abandoned him, God has abandoned him and if he can get away from me, after a period of self-loathing, he will be happy."
Of the six in our family, 4 of us are getting help through various forms of counseling. My husband is one of the two who is not (although 2 professionals have encouraged him to unburden and heal).
He admits using alcohol to self-medicate, but says his excessive drinking in the past few years is my fault, because he doesn't want to come home to me.
Asking those of you who have been there: Do these feelings, statements sound familiar? I am trying to educate myself about this condition to better understand the thinking and the warning signs. Thanks for any help you can offer.
For example, in couples' counseling (now ended), I listed alcohol as a "barrier to our relationship". He was very defensive and our counselor asked him if he thought he has a problem with alcohol. He said, "No, I do those on-line quizzes all the time and come out just fine. And because of my family history (father, grandfather and 3 of my husband's 6 siblings A's) I watch it very carefully because I never want to have to quit drinking." Red flag?
He admits depression re many issues, including his father's A behavior, but is divorcing me because, I "have abandoned him, God has abandoned him and if he can get away from me, after a period of self-loathing, he will be happy."
Of the six in our family, 4 of us are getting help through various forms of counseling. My husband is one of the two who is not (although 2 professionals have encouraged him to unburden and heal).
He admits using alcohol to self-medicate, but says his excessive drinking in the past few years is my fault, because he doesn't want to come home to me.
Asking those of you who have been there: Do these feelings, statements sound familiar? I am trying to educate myself about this condition to better understand the thinking and the warning signs. Thanks for any help you can offer.
same planet...different world
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Butte, America
Posts: 10,946
hi New :
How very sad for you.
I mentioned the other day to someone I wish I had a dollar for everyone in the Rooms of AA who were there to learn some way that they could still drink and save their life.
Is he divorcing God as well?
We'll blame everyone and everything
and until we can accept the responsibility
we're not going to get sober.
Although very sad
it is also quite possible
this end is for the best for you?
*prayers of peace of mind*
Eventually they catch on.
I can't speak for anyone, not even AA ...
But you can pretty much be relieved to know
you can't make anyone with a drinking problem drink.
We drink because we're alcoholics.
How very sad for you.
I mentioned the other day to someone I wish I had a dollar for everyone in the Rooms of AA who were there to learn some way that they could still drink and save their life.
Is he divorcing God as well?
We'll blame everyone and everything
and until we can accept the responsibility
we're not going to get sober.
Although very sad
it is also quite possible
this end is for the best for you?
*prayers of peace of mind*
Eventually they catch on.
I can't speak for anyone, not even AA ...
But you can pretty much be relieved to know
you can't make anyone with a drinking problem drink.
We drink because we're alcoholics.
Member
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Baghdad
Posts: 2,822
Originally Posted by NewChapter 
Hello, All--I usually post on Friends and Family threads, as my husband of 27 years is divorcing me now and, although I am getting good help in my own co-dependent recovery, I still have questions about his use of alcohol and the effects on his and all our lives. I also have 4 grown and nearly-grown children about whom I am concerned.
For example, in couples' counseling (now ended), I listed alcohol as a "barrier to our relationship". He was very defensive and our counselor asked him if he thought he has a problem with alcohol. He said, "No, I do those on-line quizzes all the time and come out just fine. And because of my family history (father, grandfather and 3 of my husband's 6 siblings A's) I watch it very carefully because I never want to have to quit drinking." Red flag?
He admits depression re many issues, including his father's A behavior, but is divorcing me because, I "have abandoned him, God has abandoned him and if he can get away from me, after a period of self-loathing, he will be happy."
Of the six in our family, 4 of us are getting help through various forms of counseling. My husband is one of the two who is not (although 2 professionals have encouraged him to unburden and heal).
He admits using alcohol to self-medicate, but says his excessive drinking in the past few years is my fault, because he doesn't want to come home to me.
Asking those of you who have been there: Do these feelings, statements sound familiar? I am trying to educate myself about this condition to better understand the thinking and the warning signs. Thanks for any help you can offer.
For example, in couples' counseling (now ended), I listed alcohol as a "barrier to our relationship". He was very defensive and our counselor asked him if he thought he has a problem with alcohol. He said, "No, I do those on-line quizzes all the time and come out just fine. And because of my family history (father, grandfather and 3 of my husband's 6 siblings A's) I watch it very carefully because I never want to have to quit drinking." Red flag?
He admits depression re many issues, including his father's A behavior, but is divorcing me because, I "have abandoned him, God has abandoned him and if he can get away from me, after a period of self-loathing, he will be happy."
Of the six in our family, 4 of us are getting help through various forms of counseling. My husband is one of the two who is not (although 2 professionals have encouraged him to unburden and heal).
He admits using alcohol to self-medicate, but says his excessive drinking in the past few years is my fault, because he doesn't want to come home to me.
Asking those of you who have been there: Do these feelings, statements sound familiar? I am trying to educate myself about this condition to better understand the thinking and the warning signs. Thanks for any help you can offer.
Do enough reading in the F&F section and you'll see others mention those red flags repeatedly.
I boldfaced a few of those red flags for you.
I recall fudging those self-evaluations when I was drinking, I'm sure you'll hear other recovering alcoholics here tell you the same.
Keep coming back, you'll find a lot of support here.
Forward we go...side by side-Rest In Peace
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Serene In Dixie
Posts: 36,740
Active alcoholics and heavy drinkers will
lie to protect their drinking.
They lie to themselves first and last.
Old AA joke...."How do you know when an alcoholic lies?
Their lips are moveing"
I'm sorry you and your family are having serious problems.
Prayers coming your way
lie to protect their drinking.
They lie to themselves first and last.
Old AA joke...."How do you know when an alcoholic lies?
Their lips are moveing"
I'm sorry you and your family are having serious problems.
Prayers coming your way
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 105
Thanks, Barb and SailorJohn: Yes, Barb, I do know now that this change will be VERY good for me. It has already been freeing for me to get out from under his drinking and blaming--even though we are still living in the same house. (He won't leave until the divorce is final...it's his house, too, as he says.) But I have learned to detach and am living as though I am living alone and it is beginning to feel GREAT!
I have received much support on the Friends and Family thread, and appreciate yours, as well. I guess as I look back I see so many instances years ago where the "rules don't apply to him" and "the best defense is a good offense".
He has said the most hateful things to me, attacking me at what he knows are my most vulnerable places, in order to change the subject or stop me from saying anything about his choices. So frustrating! But I've learned what I can and cannot control. And his values and behavior are not those of someone I want to know, much less be married to.
(Looks as though I'm talking more to myself than to you, but I need to keep hearing it!).
I have received much support on the Friends and Family thread, and appreciate yours, as well. I guess as I look back I see so many instances years ago where the "rules don't apply to him" and "the best defense is a good offense".
He has said the most hateful things to me, attacking me at what he knows are my most vulnerable places, in order to change the subject or stop me from saying anything about his choices. So frustrating! But I've learned what I can and cannot control. And his values and behavior are not those of someone I want to know, much less be married to.
(Looks as though I'm talking more to myself than to you, but I need to keep hearing it!).
same planet...different world
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Butte, America
Posts: 10,946
you just keep goin, then; hon.
He's made his choice -
spoken louder than words
in actions
to let a marriage go
rather than give up alcohol.
That pretty much says it right there.
So what do we do now?
We pray for it to take what it takes.
He's made his choice -
spoken louder than words
in actions
to let a marriage go
rather than give up alcohol.
That pretty much says it right there.
So what do we do now?
We pray for it to take what it takes.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 105
Yes, much praying. After so many years, it is crushing to see someone you've loved for so long become what he is becoming. And the father of my 4kids is becoming a laughingstock. Since he told me "we're done" in August, the reaction of friends, family, business associates, acquaintances has been 100% "What are you doing??? You will regret this." So he doesn't associate with these people anymore and his world is very small. One of our sons, his frat brothers, divorced guys from the country club, and barflies.
His level of anger has increased and his reasons for divorcing me (I am told) have become so "out there" that I apparently can be the devil herself for Halloween and won't need a costume. I won't fight back, but will trust that the truth will stand on its own.
His business partner told me that I have to let go and just let him be who he is, who so many people have seen him to be for years.
So I'm working on that "letting go" thing, but it's difficult, and I see that he may never get it and just might drink himself to death, a lonely angry man, as his father did. Ironically, one of my husband's fears is that he will die young, as his father did, but he doesn't see that he is headed down the same road.
His level of anger has increased and his reasons for divorcing me (I am told) have become so "out there" that I apparently can be the devil herself for Halloween and won't need a costume. I won't fight back, but will trust that the truth will stand on its own.
His business partner told me that I have to let go and just let him be who he is, who so many people have seen him to be for years.
So I'm working on that "letting go" thing, but it's difficult, and I see that he may never get it and just might drink himself to death, a lonely angry man, as his father did. Ironically, one of my husband's fears is that he will die young, as his father did, but he doesn't see that he is headed down the same road.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 105
No, Captain, I don't want to be with him any longer. Forcing this divorce will end up being the nicest thing he's ever done for me, I am sure.
I was just so slow on the uptake, with what I see now was my dysfunctional background and award-winning co-dependent behaviors.
But I believe I'm right where I'm supposed to be, and am taking on this assigment from God with the knowledge that He helps me with it every day.
SR helps me to begin to understand what has been going on (even though he says I "do too much research"). The honesty here is refreshing! and so helpful to those of us trying to understand. Thanks.
I was just so slow on the uptake, with what I see now was my dysfunctional background and award-winning co-dependent behaviors.
But I believe I'm right where I'm supposed to be, and am taking on this assigment from God with the knowledge that He helps me with it every day.
SR helps me to begin to understand what has been going on (even though he says I "do too much research"). The honesty here is refreshing! and so helpful to those of us trying to understand. Thanks.
Psalm 118:24
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: ILLINOIS
Posts: 15,203
I didn't take time to read all the replies to your post.
Alochol is a symptom of our disease. Drinking, I was an S.O.B. sober, I'm still an S.O.B. I had to work on this defect.
{quote}
but says his excessive drinking in the past few years is my fault, because he doesn't want to come home to me.
I think, this line sums up his lame attempt at an excuse.
We drink cause, we're alcoholic. We can place blame on everything. After we're sober for a while; we finally come to grips with acceptance.
Alochol is a symptom of our disease. Drinking, I was an S.O.B. sober, I'm still an S.O.B. I had to work on this defect.
{quote}
but says his excessive drinking in the past few years is my fault, because he doesn't want to come home to me.
I think, this line sums up his lame attempt at an excuse.
We drink cause, we're alcoholic. We can place blame on everything. After we're sober for a while; we finally come to grips with acceptance.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Virginia
Posts: 818
I think you an exceptionally lucky woman. Your husband is an obvious alcoholic who'll go through life blaming everything on you (and your children and anyone else who walks down the street). You're in a fortunate position to see this and are able to get out of the relationship with sanity and dignity. This guy has more red flags that a May Day Parade.
Laozi Old Man
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Detroit, MI
Posts: 6,665
Originally Posted by NewChapter
... I watch it very carefully because I never want to have to quit drinking." Red flag?
... but says his excessive drinking in the past few years is my fault, because he doesn't want to come home to me.
Do these feelings, statements sound familiar?
If he has to watch it "carefully" he is "rationalizing".
If he says it is "your fault" that he drinks, he is "justifying".
These feelings are classic symptoms of "minimization" and "denial"..
I got nothin'
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: My house.
Posts: 4,890
Originally Posted by NewChapter
He was very defensive
Originally Posted by NewChapter
No, I do those on-line quizzes all the time and come out just fine. And because of my family history (father, grandfather and 3 of my husband's 6 siblings A's) I watch it very carefully because I never want to have to quit drinking."
He doesn't want to quit...hmm...
Yup.
Originally Posted by NewChapter
I "have abandoned him, God has abandoned him and if he can get away from me, after a period of self-loathing, he will be happy."Of the six in our family, 4 of us are getting help through various forms of counseling. My husband is one of the two who is not (although 2 professionals have encouraged him to unburden and heal).
Originally Posted by NewChapter
He admits using alcohol to self-medicate
Originally Posted by NewChapter
but says his excessive drinking in the past few years is my fault, because he doesn't want to come home to me.
I'm so sorry you had to put up with this crap. Take good care of yourself and be well.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 105
So what does it take for him to get it? I still have hope that he will find a way to a happy life, to be a dad to our 4 kids, and I know now that there's nothing I can do to help that to happen.
I know some people never get it, but you did. What will it take?
I know some people never get it, but you did. What will it take?
Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: The Swish Alps, SF CA
Posts: 2,144
Originally Posted by NewChapter
So what does it take for him to get it? I still have hope that he will find a way to a happy life, to be a dad to our 4 kids, and I know now that there's nothing I can do to help that to happen.
I know some people never get it, but you did. What will it take?
I know some people never get it, but you did. What will it take?
You didn't cause it
You can't cure it
You can't control it
Help can be found at therapy and alanon, I'm REALLY sorry but all you can work on is yourself
Forward we go...side by side-Rest In Peace
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Serene In Dixie
Posts: 36,740
For me to quit drinking....I had to want to stop more than
I wanted to drink.
This happened to me after 5 years of situational depression
and detesting the woman I had become.
I felt my soul had withered ...my bottom was mental.
I knew I was living outside of Gods plan for me.
I certainly hope your husband will find his way.
I wanted to drink.
This happened to me after 5 years of situational depression
and detesting the woman I had become.
I felt my soul had withered ...my bottom was mental.
I knew I was living outside of Gods plan for me.
I certainly hope your husband will find his way.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Arizona
Posts: 872
Hi New Chapter
Just reading your thread, and so sorry you (and your family, and your husband) are all going through this. THANK YOU for sharing your story from the heart.... it helps me, as an alcoholic, know what is at stake and what can still happen "if" .... if I pick up a drink.... if I don't continue to work my program ... if I blame...
So.... are you working an Al Anon program? It may help you on your path to recovery...
I am so very thankful that I did not have to throw up 'that many' red flags in my drinking life -- I am sure I flew them all, just didn't let them get to the top (bottom) of the mast, and by God's Grace found AA when I did.
Can't say anything more than all that has already been said, I especially like Ago's "3 Cs" post -- if nothing else, please realize that YOU did not cause this, nor can you control or cure it. Leave your H's shortcoming's to God, and press on with your life... clean your side of the street and move forward.
Really tough to read your story, and praying that you and your husband will both find the right paths...
NMB
Just reading your thread, and so sorry you (and your family, and your husband) are all going through this. THANK YOU for sharing your story from the heart.... it helps me, as an alcoholic, know what is at stake and what can still happen "if" .... if I pick up a drink.... if I don't continue to work my program ... if I blame...
So.... are you working an Al Anon program? It may help you on your path to recovery...
I am so very thankful that I did not have to throw up 'that many' red flags in my drinking life -- I am sure I flew them all, just didn't let them get to the top (bottom) of the mast, and by God's Grace found AA when I did.
Can't say anything more than all that has already been said, I especially like Ago's "3 Cs" post -- if nothing else, please realize that YOU did not cause this, nor can you control or cure it. Leave your H's shortcoming's to God, and press on with your life... clean your side of the street and move forward.
Really tough to read your story, and praying that you and your husband will both find the right paths...
NMB
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 105
Thanks, all. Yes, it has taken over a year, but I see what I can and what I cannot control. After so many years, it's painful to my core to detach and leave him to his choices. Goes against everything I promised when we took our vows...because he really is ill. But you're telling me that all I can do is focus on myself. The most painful thing I've ever been asked to do.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 694
I read this and it’s sad, my wife is angry at me right now, almost a week now; my binges are from 5 o’clock to 2 AM, maybe 3 nights in a row…12 to 18 beers, (Only after work, self employed, set my own hours, how convenient) then I might say to her that I am done because I really think I am, she believes me and that causes an issue, although there is no violence it causes a lot of stress between us. I almost thought my wife was you; I had to look at the join date…
I went to the moderation management site, sounds good, not working yet, at best I can limit the days I drink (well I can limit to a few but cant say which days), but the limit I drink is not manageable at all.
My anniversary (21 years) was October 25 2009 (yesterday, we didn’t even speak) , I am scum, I blame my sweet wife for our fights when its me that cant keep my promises, I am a functional alcoholic, too functional, I wonder if I ever will want to stop more that I want to drink!
I love my wife soooo much; thanks for making me see that; I wish the best for you and your family!
I went 14 days without a drink recently, 3 years ago I went 87 days, why is determination to not drink so hard, needless to say I have failed again… Or as I have read, I have not failed; I have just not tried enough times. Benjamin Franklin I think.
I went to the moderation management site, sounds good, not working yet, at best I can limit the days I drink (well I can limit to a few but cant say which days), but the limit I drink is not manageable at all.
My anniversary (21 years) was October 25 2009 (yesterday, we didn’t even speak) , I am scum, I blame my sweet wife for our fights when its me that cant keep my promises, I am a functional alcoholic, too functional, I wonder if I ever will want to stop more that I want to drink!
I love my wife soooo much; thanks for making me see that; I wish the best for you and your family!
I went 14 days without a drink recently, 3 years ago I went 87 days, why is determination to not drink so hard, needless to say I have failed again… Or as I have read, I have not failed; I have just not tried enough times. Benjamin Franklin I think.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: The Swish Alps, SF CA
Posts: 2,144
Originally Posted by SomethingBetter
I read this and it’s sad, my wife is angry at me right now, almost a week now; my binges are from 5 o’clock to 2 AM, maybe 3 nights in a row…12 to 18 beers, (Only after work, self employed, set my own hours, how convenient) then I might say to her that I am done because I really think I am, she believes me and that causes an issue, although there is no violence it causes a lot of stress between us. I almost thought my wife was you; I had to look at the join date…
I went to the moderation management site, sounds good, not working yet, at best I can limit the days I drink (well I can limit to a few but cant say which days), but the limit I drink is not manageable at all.
My anniversary (21 years) was October 25 2009 (yesterday, we didn’t even speak) , I am scum, I blame my sweet wife for our fights when its me that cant keep my promises, I am a functional alcoholic, too functional, I wonder if I ever will want to stop more that I want to drink!
I love my wife soooo much; thanks for making me see that; I wish the best for you and your family!
I went 14 days without a drink recently, 3 years ago I went 87 days, why is determination to not drink so hard, needless to say I have failed again… Or as I have read, I have not failed; I have just not tried enough times. Benjamin Franklin I think.
I went to the moderation management site, sounds good, not working yet, at best I can limit the days I drink (well I can limit to a few but cant say which days), but the limit I drink is not manageable at all.
My anniversary (21 years) was October 25 2009 (yesterday, we didn’t even speak) , I am scum, I blame my sweet wife for our fights when its me that cant keep my promises, I am a functional alcoholic, too functional, I wonder if I ever will want to stop more that I want to drink!
I love my wife soooo much; thanks for making me see that; I wish the best for you and your family!
I went 14 days without a drink recently, 3 years ago I went 87 days, why is determination to not drink so hard, needless to say I have failed again… Or as I have read, I have not failed; I have just not tried enough times. Benjamin Franklin I think.
Get thee to a meeting STAT
you truly want to quit, go get help, if you are truly an alcoholic the chances of you getting sober using the same device that keeps you drunk (your thinking) is .000001%
Come see us, we will welcome you and you never have to drink again, but you need to get to a meeting to make that miracle happen.
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