meo348241

I've wanted to pursue this path for some time now. Even when I was still using and drinking, the field itself has always appealed to me. I've looked into 2 graduate programs so far. Went for a visit to one. I actually think I might have still been drinking at the time but was gearing-up for another run at sobriety. I'm on the last three credits of an M.A. in philosophy right now and I think I'm going to move forward with this idea in the Spring. There will be some logistical problems to iron out but I didn't post here to bore you all with them. Anyway...

Has anyone here/ is anyone here pursued/pursuing a career in addictions counseling while in recovery? I'm coming up on 6 months clean and sober and I finally feel like I'm at a good enough place to take on the pressure. By the time I'm actually applying to any programs I should have at least 9 months and I imagine I wouldn't have to accept any offers of acceptance until I'm at the one year mark. By that point, I feel like I should know whether I'm committed to sobriety and that I can really allow my employment to be dependent on its continuation. In a lot of ways, if I don't stay sober I'll be jeopardizing my career prospects but if I'm a D&A counselor, relapse absolutely means professional failure.

That scares me. I've never been clean this long, so history is not in my favor. This time everything seems different though. I'm being extremely proactive and honest about my recovery. And as much as it scares me, I also feel like such a career would provide another huge incentive to keep my sobriety going.

So yea, I'm looking for some feedback. My therapist is on board with the idea and thinks that it will be a very positive thing for me. I've also had many people tell me that they think I would do well as a counselor. Perhaps I should have been walking this path long ago but this was yet another thing that my addictions have robbed me of.

If anyone is currently pursuing this path or if you're already working in the field, do you find that it helps your own sobriety? I'm thinking that it would help my own but there's also a small part of me that thinks that being around that much suffering might be a trigger in itself. As I understand it, most people do not succeed at sobriety and I'm a little nervous that that witnessing that much failure on a daily basis might provide too much frustration.

Also, has anyone experienced any difficulty in the field because they are in recovery. I've heard stories that the D&A field often sways between being in favor of counselors that are in recovery and those that have a purely academic background. Professional success is a very small motivation for me but I also don't want to dive head first into a completely no-win situation.

I'm also curious as to what the non-12 step recovery field is like. I'm not a 12 step guy myself so my goal is to either find a facility to work in that is more inline with my own recovery or to work in private practice. It seems that I'll have to spend some time working with 12 step for my internships and clinical. I'm not all that opposed to doing that. I'm not hostile towards AA/NA and I feel like I'll still learn a whole lot from these experiences. Its just that in the end, they're probably not where I want to be. So I guess my question here is how hard it might be to find a job in a non 12 step facility? For those that are sympathetic to my views and have gone through similar courses of study, was it difficult to work in facilities that practiced 12 step treatment?

Anyway, thanks in advance for any words of wisdom that can be given to me. Feel free to go beyond any of my specific questions. I'd like to gather as much info about the process before I move ahead with this idea.

Overman

Meo,

I'm a grad student in social work, specializing in mental health. Personally, I stay away from chemical dependency and s/a settings because of my own issues with addiction (1+ year sober).

Counter-transference can be detrimental to the 'recovering' therapist, no matter how well-intentioned they are. Dealing with other addicts brings up a lot of our own issues and feelings that can be destructive and self-defeating. One must be vigilant.

I've known many recovering ppl that are in that 'honeymoon' stage of sobriety and want to reach out and help others by becoming CADCs or addiction therapists. That's not a bad thing, but sometimes I think they need to get a few years of sobriety under their belt and really do so self-work before embarking on that path.

Also want to add that I've seen many s/a counselors be admitted for detox due to relapse, as they weren't taking care of themselves, and became too other-focused.


I'm also curious as to what the non-12 step recovery field is like. I'm not a 12 step guy myself so my goal is to either find a facility to work in that is more inline with my own recovery or to work in private practice.

I've worked in a setting that used a secular focus, mainly a CBT and solution-focused approach that addressed the thought patterns and practical issues that lead to relapse. But they also encouraged AA/XA attendance outside of the treatment provided at the agency.

If you want to do private practice, you'll have to get an advanced clinical certification (in order to independently bill insurance companies). This often includes being an licensed pro counselor (LPC), licensed clinical social worker (LCSW), or licensed masters level psychologist (LMLP) - depending on the state in which you practice.

meo348241

I definitely feel you on the "honeymoon" thing. Like I said, I'll probably have about a year of sobriety before I'd even have to accept an offer of admission. It would be 4-5 months after that until I began study. The programs of study are also 60 credit Master's programs, so at least 3 years there as well. So by then I think that I should have a good idea about where I'm at with my own recovery. Fortunately, I wouldn't have to choose the addiction's concentration until the later part of the program. I spoke with the department chair and she said that a lot of people come into the program looking to study addictions and end up choosing another concentration like family counseling and vice versa. I'd also be certified and licensed by the time I'd graduate so private practice would be a very real possibility.

Thanks for the feedback, you've given me some things to think about. I'd be lying if I said that wanting to help others recover isn't part of this whole thing. However, I've also got to this point through my study of philosophy so it won't all be founded upon my own recovery and, as I said, I can always take a different concentration if the addictions route causes me too much grief. Anyway, I got time to mull this over.

jimhere

I'm with Overman. Not wanting to discourage you, but I'd wait and get some sobriety under your belt. You may change your mind after that. I went through the same phase and am now glad that I did not follow up on it.

What Overman says is true. I've sponsored a few CDP's who either drank again or were a mess because they mistook their job for their recovery.

Now I work in the field, but in lay capacity. And I see examples of the above all the time. One thing that does concern me is that we have quite a few non-alcoholic/addicts working as counselors. That's why I don't want to discourage you from following this path. A few of the counselor's where I work have been bugging me to get my degree. I will admit that I've given it some thought.
Jim

shaun00

i decided to qualify in addiction counselling about 18 months sober..
and changed my mind after a year of a 4 year degree course.

It just wasnt for me......without going into irrelevant detail.
but i enjoyed going back to school and the college enviroment..

i did what i really wanted to do rather than what i thought i should do....if you get me...

i have a friend whom is qualified....he is ten years sober and enjoys it mostly
although he struggles at times with the conflict between his training and his 12 step program.....

I applaud anyone whom goes out there and creates a new career for themselves..after wandering around killing themselves for years.

good luck to you......i had good times at college.

Rob B

This rings true with me, I am in the field as well as being a recovered alcoholic. It has been my experience and observation that once an alcoholic or addict gets to a certain point, there is nothing science can do for them, They are truly beyond human aid, Dr. Jung knew this very well. To give false hope is unacceptable to me, to offer a solution is my responsibility, I pray about this alot as there is not a simple answer. Feel free to PM if you want to discuss this.

Mark75

The healing arts, regardless of the field, involves the intangible, and occasionally, phenomena... to deny that would indicate an incomplete grasp of what healing is all about.

It doesn't have to be 12 step. It doesn't mean reading scripture. But tapping into the spiritual, either overtly or implied, is necessary for any true healing, IMO... And empathy is a major asset, especially in addiction and alcoholism.

Mark

kelsh

After being sober a year I finished my four years of college getting a BA Degree in Psychology. I had a job promised to me at Mental Health if it was still open when I finished college.

I did get that job & it was working with the Elderly in Nursing Homes with their many issues that included depression, grief, loneliness, & retreating to their rooms when activities started. Before I got this job I had already worked with the Elderly 10 years in various positions...always wanting a job where I would get to take time to listen to their life stories & help them through their own unique sad times.

Eventually I was promoted to a Geriatric Mental Health Counselor/Case Manager. This was where my experience with alcoholism came into use...I worked with the Elderly in their own homes with the same issues above but also with some that had alcohol or prescription drug issues.

I felt like I did make a difference for these people which in turn helped me with my depression & alcoholism. I also took some evening classes for the Addictions & also went to training so I could work with the Alcohol Program with the Dual Diagnosis people...we had a weekly group & I addressed the Mental Health side of it + Self Medication with Alcohol & a co-worker from the Alcohol Program did the Alcohol end of it.

kelsh

Overman

Meo,
I studied philosophy as an undergrad (have a double major w/psych).

There was a great book about using philosophical concepts and ideas in therapeutic settings...especially substance abuse.

"Plato Not Prozac!" by Lou Marinoff, PhD.

You might find it interesting.

meo348241

thanks everyone for the feedback, I have some things to consider and think through it seems.

overman
I heard about that book before, I'll have to check it out. Thanks for reminding me about that one. Since you're philosophically inclined I'll send you a recommendation as well, Addiction & Responsibility: An Inquiry into the Addictive Mind by Seeburger. As far as I know, its the only book-length study of addictions from the philosophic perspective, good stuff. I'm glad this conversation brought this one to mind, I really should reaquaint myself with it.

jimhere

I'd recommend anything by the late Dr. Gerald May as well, particularly "Addiction and Grace."

Freedom1990

I've personally known of some pretty ugly burnouts in the field with sad results, and those were people with years and years of solid recovery at the beginning.

A friend of my sponsor's in the field went out and drank/used again after 18 years clean/sober, and to make a long story short, gouged her jugular vein with a plastic fork (she was on suicide watch in a mental ward) and is now 6' under.

At one time I was thinking of pursing that as another degree, but have since changed my mind.

shaun00

ummm sure ive seen that too.....sad..

but i dont think thats about what your doing........its about what your not doing..

meditation

I do know that many of the counselors had their social work degree.
Most rehabs are staffed by recovering addicts and alcoholics. It is sometimes easier for the hospitalized rehab patient to relate to someone that has been down the same path as opposed to someone that maybe understands addictions but has no up close and personal knowledge of active addiction.
The requirements of the particular rehab I went to required a year of sobriety/ clean time to begin work. The entire staff down to the kitchen help is randomly drug tested to ensure accountability to themselves and to their patients.
You can volunteer to work or work for profit in one or work as a driver, or in some capacity at a rehab center without getting a degree to decide if this is the field you are interested in spending your career. I personally would test the water out to be sure I wasn't in the rosy glow of recovery and that this was my avocational desire.

Addicts and alcoholics in the early days (first 30) are very difficult to deal with and some are very frustrating for staff to work with due to the denial. The rehab I attended was an upscale one but I saw police officers coming to take people away that were aggressive and unruly towards the staff. A couple patients fled into the night and the staff had to find them before something bad happened to them while on detox meds. It is very very very challenging work but also can be rewarding. Not dull.

socialismislost

meo348241. You should look instead into opening up a halfway or 3/4 way house. Tremendous money to be made, and you will always have a steady supply of consumers, for sure. The real opportunity is in owning/operating these halfway/3/4 way homes. The way the laws are and how the business works, you will be guaranteed a captive audience and profitable business.

socialismislost

You know I though that was the whole point of AA/ smart recovery/etc. type programs. Addicts helping other addicts

Overman

soc,

Yes, the 12 steps/12 traditions speak of addicts 'carrying the message' and helping others.

All I'm saying is that not every recovering person would make a good s/a counselor...or a sponsor for that matter. Some of them have good intentions but fail miserably short of being effective.

I know my own limits...and know that I just couldn't do it. Not at this point anyway.

meo348241

soc - With the damage I've done to my credit during my addiction coupled with my academic debt, starting a business is not in the cards. Honestly, I'm not too concerned about making $ at this point. Considering the low cost of living in my area, I do OK at my current job. The problem is that the job is taking a physical toll on my body and, more importantly, I feel spiritually broken at the end of the day. If I can earn enough money provide minimum financial comfort, that's all I need.

I'm not sure if your comment was directed to me or to the comment on my comment but anyway...I'm not sure how what I said implies any criticism of the 12-step approach. As I said in my 1st post in the thread, I'm guessing that the graduate programs I'm considering will lead to an internship or clinical at a 12-step facility. I'll also note that I spent 99 days in one as a patient and it was responsible for my longest period of clean time prior to now. Moreover, I don't believe that I'd be clean right now without many of the things I learned about myself and recovery there. I did subsequently relapse and I'm not working an AA/NA program now but I don't attribute any of my failures to the 12-steps nor to I credit my current success to my rejection of the steps.

That said, even if "addicts helping other addicts" is the point of AA/NA, that's not to say that the steps are the end all-be all of this goal. In my personal experience, people I've known that really do well within the 12-step community, would never argue the contrary. To borrow some of the terminology, I feel like I was "constitutionally incapable" of following the steps and I know I'm not alone. My goal is to help those who are in my own situation. There's a significant lack of resources, both human and financial, for recovering addicts in general. It seems to me like they are almost non-existent for those who wish to pursue recovery without AA/NA.

I really think that overman (Übermensch) is spot-on. Success in recovery does not necessarily imply success as a therapist. I still have a lot of soul searching to do before I can make a claim to either. I'm pretty sure that what I got going on right now is going to work. I can't say for sure since I've never been here before, but based on where my life has been going, I've got a good feeling. If things continue to go the way I want them to, then I may take on the challenge. I guess it comes down to earning my own trust. The last thing I'm going to do is jeopardize my own sobriety. The second-to-last thing I'm going to do is jeopardize the recovery of another person because my own shortcomings impact their treatment.

socialismislost

If you feel spiritually broken meo, that is right up the AA alley.

meo348241

I think that you might have misinterpreted my post and its intentions. My current employment leaves me feeling spiritually broken at the end of the day. I'm an orderfiller for a large commercial chain. I work long, long hours in subzero temperatures. The nature of the work sucks the life out of me. I'm starting to have issues with my back and shoulder. Sometimes it feels like I'm prostituting myself. I feel at odds with working for such a large, cut-throat company. My shift also keeps me away from my family.

Its tough to deal with. I have a college degree and I'm working on a Master's. In terms of the pecking order at work, I'm below guys that dropped out of high school. I don't view myself as better than them (or anyone for that matter). At the same time though, I've invested a lot of time, money and dedication to my education. I also have a solid work history. A little payoff would be nice.

I guess this is where, drinking and drug abuse gets you. Now that I'm clean, I struggle with the fact that I won't undue all this damage overnight. But anyway, that's enough of this little pity party I'm having for myself right now.

My point is that my job is breaking my spirit. Perhaps 'broken' was too strong of a word. 'Harm' might be a better word. Overall, I'm in a good spot right now. This is just another obstacle. In one sense, I'm fortunate to even have a job that pays decent money. I know that if I stay clean and keep my wits about me, I'll finish up this philosophy M.A., start picking up some adjunct teaching gigs, and then hopefully I'll be in a good enough condition to begin the counseling degree. In the meantime, I look for a better job everyday. I'm going to put in an application tomorrow. Its not a dream job, but it would be a step up.

Thanks for the advice and all but you needn't recommend AA to me. I've been involved before and it just isn't my thing. I'll even do you one better. If I ever relapse I'll give it another shot. Until then, I gotta do this thing my way, for better or worse.