Can every alcoholic quit if they want to?
Recovering Nicely
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 935
Can every alcoholic quit if they want to?
Hi All,
At my Alanon meetings, they suggest we attend a couple of open AA meetings, I guess to get the alcoholic's perspective. Anyway, I haven't done that yet, and I was hoping you all could help me understand if what my AH says is true (since I do not understand the mind of an alcoholic) or is it manipulation.
Six weeks ago, my AH was told by our dr. that if he continued drinking he would have 6 mos. to year to live (he has alcoholic liver disease, muscle wasting, etc.) He quit for 2 weeks, has relapsed since, worse than ever, drunk at work, taking off from work and being drunk at 11 a.m., passing out by 6 p.m., etc. For the past two days he has had hiccups almost non-stop (although they did finally stop last night for a while). I have managed to ignore him most times, but it has become increasingly frustrating as he makes absolutely no sense when he is awake and talks, can't remember anything, etc. (I previously posted re: alcoholic wet brain).
Anyway, this morning I had a conversation with him where I told him flat out that I did not care if he drank himself to death, or whatever he choses to do, that rather than divorce him at this moment, I will try and stick it out due to financial reasons, but that I need him to understand he must stay away from me and the downstairs, so I can live a "normal" life.
He said he is so sorry for what he has done, that he understands that my quality of life is zero and that I don't deserve that, that he wants to stop, but it's easier said than done. I said that this stopping for two weeks, drinking for 2 mos., stopping for a week and drinking for 6 mos. is worse than him drinking straight through, both for him (home detox, not safe) and me (up, down, up, down - insanity) and that he's wasting away and he is dying before my eyes. He said he's surprised he's not dead yet. Anyway, I said "if you tried to stop, could you stop and stay stopped?" He said "I don't know" and then went on to say that he's upset every morning that he just can't beat this thing, and that after he went to rehab last year and was sober for 3 months, then drank, he was disappointed in himself (this is a man who 20 years ago, went to rehab and stayed sober without one relapse for over 14 years, then relapsed the past 6 or so years).
The reason I am asking you if this may be so is not cause I'm trying to make excuses for him, not cause I love him, not cause I want to have hope that he stops (actually I think it's way too late for that, I don't think he can stop), it's just that if his health is failing, and if he continues to drink, I really would like to know if it could be that he can't stop, in order that I may truly understand the disease and try to have a little compassion for the man, instead of the frustration I feel everytime I have to listen to a word that comes out of his mouth. I mean, doesn't everyone deserve a little compassion? Alcoholics are people too (as you all know), it's just real hard living with one. Thanks all.
At my Alanon meetings, they suggest we attend a couple of open AA meetings, I guess to get the alcoholic's perspective. Anyway, I haven't done that yet, and I was hoping you all could help me understand if what my AH says is true (since I do not understand the mind of an alcoholic) or is it manipulation.
Six weeks ago, my AH was told by our dr. that if he continued drinking he would have 6 mos. to year to live (he has alcoholic liver disease, muscle wasting, etc.) He quit for 2 weeks, has relapsed since, worse than ever, drunk at work, taking off from work and being drunk at 11 a.m., passing out by 6 p.m., etc. For the past two days he has had hiccups almost non-stop (although they did finally stop last night for a while). I have managed to ignore him most times, but it has become increasingly frustrating as he makes absolutely no sense when he is awake and talks, can't remember anything, etc. (I previously posted re: alcoholic wet brain).
Anyway, this morning I had a conversation with him where I told him flat out that I did not care if he drank himself to death, or whatever he choses to do, that rather than divorce him at this moment, I will try and stick it out due to financial reasons, but that I need him to understand he must stay away from me and the downstairs, so I can live a "normal" life.
He said he is so sorry for what he has done, that he understands that my quality of life is zero and that I don't deserve that, that he wants to stop, but it's easier said than done. I said that this stopping for two weeks, drinking for 2 mos., stopping for a week and drinking for 6 mos. is worse than him drinking straight through, both for him (home detox, not safe) and me (up, down, up, down - insanity) and that he's wasting away and he is dying before my eyes. He said he's surprised he's not dead yet. Anyway, I said "if you tried to stop, could you stop and stay stopped?" He said "I don't know" and then went on to say that he's upset every morning that he just can't beat this thing, and that after he went to rehab last year and was sober for 3 months, then drank, he was disappointed in himself (this is a man who 20 years ago, went to rehab and stayed sober without one relapse for over 14 years, then relapsed the past 6 or so years).
The reason I am asking you if this may be so is not cause I'm trying to make excuses for him, not cause I love him, not cause I want to have hope that he stops (actually I think it's way too late for that, I don't think he can stop), it's just that if his health is failing, and if he continues to drink, I really would like to know if it could be that he can't stop, in order that I may truly understand the disease and try to have a little compassion for the man, instead of the frustration I feel everytime I have to listen to a word that comes out of his mouth. I mean, doesn't everyone deserve a little compassion? Alcoholics are people too (as you all know), it's just real hard living with one. Thanks all.
Forum Leader
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Scottsdale, AZ, one big happy dysfunctional family!
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I think we can only share our own experience, not that of another alcoholic.
I think everyone can quit if they have the desire to. From what you've described about your AH, his situation is not necessarily unique. I have a sponsee who at one time had 11 years of sobriety, he's now coming up on 9 months in recovery after 2 1/2 years of slips. I still find it hard at times to comprehend the insanity, but it's a good reminder of where I went for 27 years, and I definitely have compassion for those who are still suffering.
But the biggest point I want to make is that I only have my sobriety for today, and I make no assumptions that I'll have it tomorrow. I like to think that I work a solid recovery program, that I live a spiritual life, and that my sobriety is %100 golden, but the reality is that I just don't know. All I know is that if I go to bed tonight without taking a drink, then I'll wake up sober tomorrow and be given the chance to do it all over again.
I pray for all of you, most of all I hope you continue to take care of yourself above anything else. I also hope you make it to an AA meeting someday, you're always welcome in our rooms, I thank everyone in Al-Anon for welcoming me to their meetings.
I think everyone can quit if they have the desire to. From what you've described about your AH, his situation is not necessarily unique. I have a sponsee who at one time had 11 years of sobriety, he's now coming up on 9 months in recovery after 2 1/2 years of slips. I still find it hard at times to comprehend the insanity, but it's a good reminder of where I went for 27 years, and I definitely have compassion for those who are still suffering.
But the biggest point I want to make is that I only have my sobriety for today, and I make no assumptions that I'll have it tomorrow. I like to think that I work a solid recovery program, that I live a spiritual life, and that my sobriety is %100 golden, but the reality is that I just don't know. All I know is that if I go to bed tonight without taking a drink, then I'll wake up sober tomorrow and be given the chance to do it all over again.
I pray for all of you, most of all I hope you continue to take care of yourself above anything else. I also hope you make it to an AA meeting someday, you're always welcome in our rooms, I thank everyone in Al-Anon for welcoming me to their meetings.
Guest
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Birmingham, AL
Posts: 1,924
"Rarely have we seen a person fail who has thoroughly followed our path. Those who do not recover are people who cannot or will not completely give themselves to this simple program, usually men and women who are constitutionally incapable of being honest with themselves. There are such unfortunates. They are not at fault; they seem to have been born that way. They are naturally incapable of grasping and developing a manner of living which demands rigorous honesty. Their chances are less than average.
There are those, too, who suffer from grave emotional and mental disorders, but many of them do recover if they have the capacity to be honest."
How it Works, Alcoholics Anonymous, First Edition.
There are those, too, who suffer from grave emotional and mental disorders, but many of them do recover if they have the capacity to be honest."
How it Works, Alcoholics Anonymous, First Edition.
Another Day in Paradise
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Upland, CA
Posts: 900
Queen,
In my opinion, your question is perhaps the most difficult question regarding any alcoholic. Are there alcoholics who CAN'T quit? Facts support a yes answer; there are thousands who like your husband continue to drink even though it is a CERTAIN death sentence. Based on these facts it would be rather simplistic to argue the opposite.
If your question is "with the right motivation and willingness CAN anyone quit?" that answer can also be argued in the affirmative. All the above being said I think your real question is at the last of your post. "I mean, doesn't everyone deserve a little compassion? Alcoholics are people too (as you all know), it's just real hard living with one. Thanks all."
Compassion is yours to give regardless of the answer to the can anyone quit question. I can only suggest that you decide if you will be better or worse for the willingness to show compassion to an individual with whom you no doubt have had many good days as well as these wretched ones. If you are active in ALANON then you already know that we all only have control over our own actions, not those of others and as a result you will have to be satisfied with your response to your husband's behavior long after he has determined his own fate.
I attended a funeral on Saturday in Sacramento CA of a close friend who had everything to live for, vast amounts of money, a fantastic wife of 18 years and a lovely 13 year old daughter whom he adored and spent almost all his free time with. He was sober off and on for 8 years and then over dosed while on a business trip at age 40 and his life was over.
Could he quit? Yes, he did many times, just not one time enough! Only God know why, but the compassion expressed to his family and loving way his wife spoke of him at the service was the MOST positive thing that SHE could do. His life is over and she must be able to look at herself in the mirror and at the end of the day that is all any of us have control over.
God bless you and keep you. Your decision regarding forgiveness is one you can give both yourself and your husband if that is what you choose to do.
Jon
In my opinion, your question is perhaps the most difficult question regarding any alcoholic. Are there alcoholics who CAN'T quit? Facts support a yes answer; there are thousands who like your husband continue to drink even though it is a CERTAIN death sentence. Based on these facts it would be rather simplistic to argue the opposite.
If your question is "with the right motivation and willingness CAN anyone quit?" that answer can also be argued in the affirmative. All the above being said I think your real question is at the last of your post. "I mean, doesn't everyone deserve a little compassion? Alcoholics are people too (as you all know), it's just real hard living with one. Thanks all."
Compassion is yours to give regardless of the answer to the can anyone quit question. I can only suggest that you decide if you will be better or worse for the willingness to show compassion to an individual with whom you no doubt have had many good days as well as these wretched ones. If you are active in ALANON then you already know that we all only have control over our own actions, not those of others and as a result you will have to be satisfied with your response to your husband's behavior long after he has determined his own fate.
I attended a funeral on Saturday in Sacramento CA of a close friend who had everything to live for, vast amounts of money, a fantastic wife of 18 years and a lovely 13 year old daughter whom he adored and spent almost all his free time with. He was sober off and on for 8 years and then over dosed while on a business trip at age 40 and his life was over.
Could he quit? Yes, he did many times, just not one time enough! Only God know why, but the compassion expressed to his family and loving way his wife spoke of him at the service was the MOST positive thing that SHE could do. His life is over and she must be able to look at herself in the mirror and at the end of the day that is all any of us have control over.
God bless you and keep you. Your decision regarding forgiveness is one you can give both yourself and your husband if that is what you choose to do.
Jon
Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: in the present moment
Posts: 2,060
QT,
the fact that your husband had 14 years dry/sober before he went back out, and hearing where he is now, is really keeping it green for me today.
And, he could quit if he wanted to quit more than he wants to drink and die. right now, he is very sick mentally and physically. You are a compassionate person to understand that.
is there any way you can extend the same compassion to QT and improve your own conditions? with every passing day that you 2 share physical space, the bigger a toll it seems to take on your emotional and spiritual wellbeing.
I'm glad you are going to al-anon and are here at SR. Do you have a support network in real life and do you utilize these people? I hope so. you deserve it!
the fact that your husband had 14 years dry/sober before he went back out, and hearing where he is now, is really keeping it green for me today.
And, he could quit if he wanted to quit more than he wants to drink and die. right now, he is very sick mentally and physically. You are a compassionate person to understand that.
is there any way you can extend the same compassion to QT and improve your own conditions? with every passing day that you 2 share physical space, the bigger a toll it seems to take on your emotional and spiritual wellbeing.
I'm glad you are going to al-anon and are here at SR. Do you have a support network in real life and do you utilize these people? I hope so. you deserve it!
Member
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Michigan
Posts: 1,381
This is a tuff question to answer. I have know many many people with drinking problems. Two, I know had not quit, one died and the other has liver problems.
I quit over 7 years ago. I really got tired of being sick. Felt like a slave to booze. My step dad quit because he loved driving more than drinking. He was sober 10 years before he died.
I think if a person really wants to stop there is a way. It is hard to break old habits.
I quit over 7 years ago. I really got tired of being sick. Felt like a slave to booze. My step dad quit because he loved driving more than drinking. He was sober 10 years before he died.
I think if a person really wants to stop there is a way. It is hard to break old habits.
1 bite&all resistance crumbles
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: IRELAND
Posts: 2,208
I think from my own experience that if you are willing to go to any lengths then yes you can get sober...however, getting to that point, perhaps even 'feeling' that you are worthy of getting sober weird as that sounds...is not a point where we are all lucky enough to get to. Yes if he worked the program as Emimily says he would get sober, but I do think it is not a bad idea to have compassion for him - as for anyone who is struggling - he is hating himself right now, i think, more than you ever could. Not to say to enable him but I guess he does not have long to live and showing him love and compassion would not be a bad thing to do. I think he is lost, as I was. THank God through God's grace I found the program and the willingness. It is not automatic for all of us....I commend you on going to al-anon I find it wonderful how loved ones of alcoholics can heal thorugh that program.
Good luck
love
Cathy31
x
Good luck
love
Cathy31
x
Member
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Posts: 226
No. Obviously alcoholics cannot quit when they want to. That's what makes an alcoholic an alcoholic. If every alcoholic could just "decide" to quit, it wouldn't be much of a disease, right?
Those of us who have stopped drinking have been given a reprieve from the progressive disease of alcoholism. A reprieve we can extend if we start and continue to work a program of spiritual development.
I cannot and do not claim any credit for having "quit" drinking. A million times I tried to quit drinking and failed. After a million failures, I realized that no matter how much I wanted to quit drinking, I could not. At that point, I decided to seek help.
Your husband is deeply and desperately sick. And frankly, I'm shocked to see anyone declare in public that they told their sick and dying spouse that they do not care whether he lives or dies, but will stick around for the time being for financial reasons. Apparently, he is not the only sick one.
Sounds to me that your husband has no chance outside of rehab. If he's 6-12 months from dying an alcoholic death, I don't see why he isn't under immediate medical and alcoholic treatment. Living with you and hearing what you have to say to him can't be doing him any good.
Those of us who have stopped drinking have been given a reprieve from the progressive disease of alcoholism. A reprieve we can extend if we start and continue to work a program of spiritual development.
I cannot and do not claim any credit for having "quit" drinking. A million times I tried to quit drinking and failed. After a million failures, I realized that no matter how much I wanted to quit drinking, I could not. At that point, I decided to seek help.
Your husband is deeply and desperately sick. And frankly, I'm shocked to see anyone declare in public that they told their sick and dying spouse that they do not care whether he lives or dies, but will stick around for the time being for financial reasons. Apparently, he is not the only sick one.
Sounds to me that your husband has no chance outside of rehab. If he's 6-12 months from dying an alcoholic death, I don't see why he isn't under immediate medical and alcoholic treatment. Living with you and hearing what you have to say to him can't be doing him any good.
Last edited by Zanthos; 05-21-2008 at 11:36 AM.
1 bite&all resistance crumbles
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: IRELAND
Posts: 2,208
Originally Posted by Zanthos 
No. Obviously alcoholics cannot quit when they want to. That's what makes an alcoholic an alcoholic. If every alcoholic could just "decide" to quit, it wouldn't be much of a disease, right?
Those of us who have stopped drinking have been given a reprieve from the progressive disease of alcoholism. A reprieve we can extend if we start and continue to work a program of spiritual development.
I cannot and do not claim any credit for having "quit" drinking.
Those of us who have stopped drinking have been given a reprieve from the progressive disease of alcoholism. A reprieve we can extend if we start and continue to work a program of spiritual development.
I cannot and do not claim any credit for having "quit" drinking.
Cathy31
x
Member
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Posts: 226
Originally Posted by Cathy31
if you are willing to go to any lengths then yes you can get sober...however, getting to that point, perhaps even 'feeling' that you are worthy of getting sober weird as that sounds...is not a point where we are all lucky enough to get to.
If in fact I escape an alcoholic death (for I don't know if I may relapse someday), it will be a complete and total blessing. And to those miserable, stinking, drinking drunks who don't quit, or pick up again and are off to the races for the rest of their poisoned lives, as ugly a portrait of human dis-ease and dysfunction that they present, it's incumbent upon me, for my own spiritual well-being, to find a way to be compassionate and accepting toward them, and to share in their pain to the extent that I have the courage and love to do so.
Don't get undies in a bunch
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: South Shore MA
Posts: 7,120
Zanthos
When you walk in a person's shoes, you understand such statements.
No different then when I was told... You will do what you will do and that is my choice.
Both messages delivered the same thought... I have reached a point of being sick and tired of dealing with this...You do something about it.
Queen...
As for your question...Yes...if they want to.
3 steps get us started...
I have a problem.
I can't control the problem on my own.
Help!
and when we stop trying to do things by ourself, humble ourself and look beyond ourself for the answers... then we start to find solutions.
Detox and AA can help him get started. ... if he wants to
When you walk in a person's shoes, you understand such statements.
No different then when I was told... You will do what you will do and that is my choice.
Both messages delivered the same thought... I have reached a point of being sick and tired of dealing with this...You do something about it.
Queen...
As for your question...Yes...if they want to.
3 steps get us started...
I have a problem.
I can't control the problem on my own.
Help!
and when we stop trying to do things by ourself, humble ourself and look beyond ourself for the answers... then we start to find solutions.
Detox and AA can help him get started. ... if he wants to
Forum Leader
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Scottsdale, AZ, one big happy dysfunctional family!
Posts: 23,059
Originally Posted by best
When you walk in a person's shoes, you understand such statements.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Posts: 226
Originally Posted by best
Zanthos
When you walk in a person's shoes, you understand such statements.
When you walk in a person's shoes, you understand such statements.
I don't come onto SR to "be nice" and "make friends". I certainly don't visit this site to ladle out saccharine-coated pablum.
I sometimes make the effort to be straightforward and honest with someone who is exhibiting very unhealthy attitudes and reactions. And that sometimes involves pointing out things that are uncomfortable to have pointed out.
A few weeks ago, I wrote something in response to a post that got a number of people pretty upset. It was blunt and harsh. But my comments were meant only for one person, in an effort to be helpful to that person. Fortunately, the person I directed my comments to "got it" and thanked me. Which made it easier for me to endure the discomfort of a lot of criticism.
Recovering Nicely
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 935
Originally Posted by Zanthos
Your husband is deeply and desperately sick. And frankly, I'm shocked to see anyone declare in public that they told their sick and dying spouse that they do not care whether he lives or dies, but will stick around for the time being for financial reasons. Apparently, he is not the only sick one.
Sounds to me that your husband has no chance outside of rehab. If he's 6-12 months from dying an alcoholic death, I don't see why he isn't under immediate medical and alcoholic treatment. Living with you and hearing what you have to say to him can't be doing him any good.
Sounds to me that your husband has no chance outside of rehab. If he's 6-12 months from dying an alcoholic death, I don't see why he isn't under immediate medical and alcoholic treatment. Living with you and hearing what you have to say to him can't be doing him any good.
So I do tend to agree that unless you have walked in another person's shoes, you can't understand these statements (or the frustration!!!).
Member
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,947
Originally Posted by queenteree
The reason I am asking you if this may be so is not cause I'm trying to make excuses for him, not cause I love him, not cause I want to have hope that he stops (actually I think it's way too late for that, I don't think he can stop), it's just that if his health is failing, and if he continues to drink, I really would like to know if it could be that he can't stop, in order that I may truly understand the disease and try to have a little compassion for the man, instead of the frustration I feel everytime I have to listen to a word that comes out of his mouth. I mean, doesn't everyone deserve a little compassion? Alcoholics are people too (as you all know), it's just real hard living with one. Thanks all.
what a beautiful posting from my perspective. I can feel your pain as I have subjected my girlfriend to some of that, although a different addiction.
there are scores of people who just dont change. perhaps it's because the original pain that fueled the drinking in the beginning just can't be approached. you certainly cant get at it when one is medicating it with drugs, sex, tv, news, etc.
so I can have empathy for your AH. I would tend to think that it would be a lot harder for you to have empathy for him than I, however, because his using has hurt you over and over. You have lived with much suffering over this.
it is also possible that he will change, or 'see the light', or whatever.
I hope the best for you and appreciate your share...
Don't get undies in a bunch
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: South Shore MA
Posts: 7,120
Originally Posted by Zanthos
It was blunt and harsh.
We can be blunt but we can deliver it with compassion. Harsh doesn't always get accepted. For me harsh would have me close my ears and ignore what was being said. Stubborn that way I guess *LOL*
I find more and more that when I deliver the truth with a calm quiet tone, more people hear it because more people are listening rather then shutting me out.
When others would deal with me before finding recovery...well even the same today... I listen more when they speak in soft tones.
When I deliver a message to the alcoholics in my own life... I find they listen better when I use soft calm tones. Blunt with sugar is heard by more.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Posts: 226
Originally Posted by best
We can be blunt but we can deliver it with compassion. Harsh doesn't always get accepted.....Blunt with sugar is heard by more.
Truth is, if I were to respond in a fully compassionate way, it would hurt too much. To open myself all the way to the pain of another person is often beyond me. With all that's going on in this world, I'd be crying all the time.
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