bugsworth

Morning all...I have to say I am exausted, frustrated and need some help.

I have a friend who I met in the rooms of aa almost 7 months ago....we came to aa about the same time..maybe a week apart...we live one town apart so went to alot of the same meetings and became part of each others support group. Well I became her support group...which was fine for a while but she keeps "relapsing". I put relapsing in quotes because she really just drinks with a couple of days in between the binges.

I can't take it anymore and my husband is fed up with the late night drunk dialing.

What really is making me angry is her use of what she hears in the rooms as a defense to drink. BTW she hasn't been to a meeting since Thanksgiving.

The first few times she drank she cried see I am powerless.....I guess I am hopeless...yada yada

Now she has moved on to "relapse is part of recovery" This burns me up! Built in excuse!!!

She has very selective hearing because I have attended many of the same meetings and I heard... call someone BEFORE you pick up....Don't pick up no matter what.

She knows I am available to her but she is becoming a drain...I cringe when the phone rings. My husband says cut her loose she just wants to drink.

Is it time to step over the body? I really don't want to walk away from her but I am getting frustrated...

any words of wisdom?

Dee74

I find it hard to walk away too Bugsworth...but I've learned the hard way that you can only help and support those who want it.

I've learned to walk away if I'm not helping, or when anyone becomes what I like to call an emotional vampire...and I think you have one of the undead here.

Time to take a few steps back IMO - she may very well cry and cuss and blame you for next week's drinking...but it sounds like she's got that booked in anyway...

we can't help save them all...at least not until they want to be saved

D

by myself again

Wow thats sounds very trying. You must be a very strong person. It sounds like your friend doesnt want to take responsibility. I don't know enough to give any words of wisdom, but I hope your friend makes it and you stay strong.

nolonger

"relapse is part of recovery"

yeah, like crashing is part of driving a car.

Tough call, B. Others with more experience of 12th steps may differ, but I'm with your husband. She has to want it. Can you sit down with her on the days she doesn't drink, lay out things as you see them and tell her that if she calls and isn't sober, you're hanging up the phone on her straight away?

bugsworth

Dee...You are right she is becoming vampire like...I do care about her but it is destroying me watching her manipulate the program to fit her needs. Many here know while I am a member of aa I question some of it....but I am sober with the help of aa...I am a take what you need leave the rest kinda girl...it seems to me she takes the parts she needs and leaves the rest too...the exception is she is still drinking! She called last night at 11:25 and said "what are you doing?" like it was 3 in the afternoon!!! UMMMM...sleeping....ARGGGGG...

Thanks by myself! Good to see you and welcome! I will remain strong...I think the major difference is I no longer want alcohol in my life...she still can't imagine life without it.

No longer...I agree with your statement....like crashing is part of driving a car...The first time she relapsed she was treated like a queen who lost her crown....people helping her...driving to the store for her...I even cooked a few meals so she would not have to worry about feeding her daughter...She loved the attention...many walked away after 3 or 4 times of this behavior...I stuck around, but as I said before I am tired...I don't think I can do it anymore...Thanks for your imput!!! I appreciate it!

Dee74

She's not being fair to herself or to you with continued drinking, regardless of the excuses...if she shows up later genuinely remorseful and genuinely wanting help to quit, ok, but for now it sounds like you're being used...

hope you work it out - I'm off to bed!
D

barb dwyer

This is a good example of what I call 'dragging others into your pit'.

They like to say they drink alone - but she's not exactly alone, is she?

It's always a pleasure for me to see growth in the Program - because it's not so much SHE is having the problem - YOU are gaining self respect - and are learning about boundaries.

Something only those with self - respect .. require.

Good for you (in that regard, I mean)

I'm all about just sitting the person down and handing out some truth.
It's not so much 'you're doing this and this' but it sounds more to me like it's a matter of 'I can't be around this and this any more" ...

and no matter HOW I try to look at it - it's a good thing.

NOMOMERLOTMAMMA

Hi Bugs,

If this woman is dragging you down and possibly threatening your own sobriety, you are going to have to cut her loose. I would tell her that when she is ready to truly surrender, she can give you a call..

Big hugs,

Karen

Treasure2Find

Hi Bugsworth,

I had to refer to the dictionary in order to respond to your post. I wanted to be sure I wasn’t sending out false info. See when people come into AA or whatever and go in and out all the time they call it a relapse. Relapse is a term that is highly misused in any program that I am familiar with.

The Dictionary kind of spells it out but I hate to use it because it doesn’t completely send home the message I’m trying to pass on to you.

(Relapse) To revert to an earlier condition, esp. after partial or recovery from an illness.

Relapse can only be used if partial or complete recovery is involved. The only way that I know to have partial or complete recovery (reprieve) is to work the steps with a sponsor. If your friend is not working with a sponsor, working the steps, or just pain isn’t getting to the core of the matter she is not relapsing. Your friend is in active addiction, brief periods of abstinence do not qualify as recovery and likewise long periods of sobriety do not qualify as recovery.

Going into the rooms in AA and getting a chip and then walking back out and picking up is not relapsing it is using. Recovery or partial recovery is only made possible by AA’s 12 steps and a Higher Power.

Stepping over a body is not really a bad idea at this point; just the wording is a little bleak because she could still some around. I try to put my work on a service plane and to be honest I find it a waste of time to keep chasing a man who cannot or will not work with me. I normally leave such a person alone, they sometimes become convinced that he cannot recover by himself and start to come around. There may be other people who need you Bugsworth.

bugsworth

Treasure, That is why I qualified my use of the word relapse...I know she is active...she binges now instead of drinking everyday.

Her sponsor let her go in November and she has not attended meetings in almost a month. I have tried to be a good friend, lend an ear, lend a hand, but I am tired. Thanks for your reply, It is greatly appreciated.

Tazman53

Bugs you are in a tough spot, we have a guy that has been in and out of the rooms in my area for many years.

When he comes in we bend over backwards to help him get to meetings (Rides), but we do not call him, he calls us, and others have told him to not call anyone if he has been drinking/drugging. I have spoken to several old timers about him, they have told me that a lot of people over the years have done a lot of stuff (food, money, bail, job)to help him and all he did was take advantage of thier kindness. They told me that he was using us (AA) at first as a way of lessening the impact of his drinking and drugging.

He knows now that if he wants to get sober all he has to do is call us and we will be there to take him to a meeting, talk to him on the phone as long as he is sober, and help him work the steps. There in lies the problem, sadly he is not ready to get and stay sober, he leans on the fellowship to get sober for a while, one time he got 90 days under his belt and went back out. He has had sponsors who worked with him on the steps, but he really has never gotten step one down, as a result he always (So far) wound up drunk again.

It is heart breaking to see, he is a great guy when he is sober, he would give you the shirt off of his back and would not hurt a fly, every time he seems to be looking good and starting to get his act back together he picks up again.

Bugs from what the old timers have done in my area it seems as though the best thing you can do for your self and her is to tell her do not call if you have been drinking or you are not ready to start working on staying sober.

Be honest with her, tell her that you love her, but how her drinking is affecting you in a bad way and until she is ready..... really ready to get on with sobriety she needs to back off. Tough spot to be in, I have been there with the person I spoke of, right now he is back out there, I/we are simply praying and waiting for him to call when he thinks he is ready again.

Music

Frustration is caused by her not doing what you think she ought to do. Don't get frustrated. She still wants to drink so cut her lose. I was told early on that I'm not God and I don't have the right to stand in another persons way of hitting their bottom. We carry the message, not the mess.

Personally, I make it practice to put no more into someone's sobriety than they're willing to put in and you've passed that point if your relationship with your husband is being affected.

Tell her not to call you any more until she's ready to get serious about staying sober. She's right about one thing. We are powerless over alcohol, but it's generally "after" we take that first drink. Up to that point, we have a choice.

Treasure2Find

Thankyou I did see what you said about relapse but wanted to point it out again maybe you would hear it if someone else said it. From what you explained it is obvious there is nothing that you can do for her except be a power of example.

I Have sponsored people and within the first two weeks I get to know them and start seeing that they are not interested in the program of action. I have to let them go and seek out someone who is interested, keeping things on a service plane.

Jfanagle

Part of my "canned speech" to any poor misguided folks who ask me to sponsor them is that if you call me AFTER you have started drinking I will hang up. I will not talk with a drunk since they tend to forget my "pearls of wisdom" and it annoys me!!

Call me as soon as you sober up and I will be happy to discuss what happened and remind you that the call is first and the drink only follows if you and I decide that a drink will solve what ever problem is bothering you. If you can convince me that the booze will "help" I promise to buy, and if after you drink life does get better then next time I will drink with you!!

After a few years and a fair amount of sponsees I have yet to buy and I am still sober. I have had some real in depth and sometimes tearful phone conversations with still sober sponsees and I have hung up on many more.

PS. I ALWAYS welcome back the man or woman who has decided to try drinking again, but I know I can't sober up a drunk or keep one sober who has decided to go out and try it again.

Jon

Rimmy

This thread gives me some insight into how much you all care... the lengths you go simply to help others find sobriety.

Thank you!!!!

collinsmi

I Like that!

miss communicat

I agree.

Time to move forward in your own recovery, let her know that the doors of AA are always open to her when she's finished drinking. There is a huge difference between pausing and stopping, and seems to me she likes being able to pause in her drinking as a way to feel in control. Bottom line: she is not done drinking.

You can better serve by taking good care of your own energy.

sugErspun

In times like this, I look into the book (big book), it seeme like you have some resentment towards her, for that we look inside ourselves:

"We asked ourselves why we were angry. In most cases it was found that our self-esteem, our pocketbooks, our ambitions, our personal relationships (including sex) were hurt or threatened. So we were sore. We were 'burned up' "

-and-

"We realized that people who wronged us were perhaps spiritually sick. Though we did not like their symptoms and the way these disturbed us, they, like ourselves, were sick too. We asked God to help us show them the same tolerance, pity, and patience that we would cheerfully grant a sick friend. When a person offended we said to ourselves 'This is a sick man, how can I be helpful to him? God save me from being angry. Thy will be done.' "

Your friend is very sick, I don't know if she is alcoholic or not, that is for her to decide. And maybe the best thing to help her is to 'step over the body' - but she is much more than a body. If you are to cut ties with her, you must be clear with her as to the reason why, you deserve that peace of mind. Talk to her when she is sober, and explain the reason you can no longer continue a friendship, you must be clear to her as to why.

I guess that is what I was trying to say more than anything - be clear with her as to why you are cutting ties.

If you have done a fourth step, it would be helpful to put this womans name on there and work it out as well.

miss communicat

This passage requires so much work on my part that I am sometimes overwhelmed. I intellectualize the word "helpful" to death. No, make that rationalize. I can rationalize my avoidance and cutting someone off as being helpful to them and as being God's will.

hmmmm.... food for thought. I AM working on this however. Dropping that brain down into my heart, asking for spiritual guidance and being courageous enough to speak honestly to those who offend me. (before I cut them off permanently)

thanks for posting this. ouch.

Justme57

I think Music and I must have the same Sponser !
I had this very same problem when I was in my first year of recovery.
I was told, never to 'talk to the bottle", also that I am not God, and that it is not my fault that the person concerned chose to pick up the first drink.

I remember feeling that I should, as you said, stand by the person concerned, I was so used to being a "people pleaser", I found it very hard to turn them away . You cannot give away what you dont have, and you will fast lose your serenity, and peace, if you continue to let her drain you .

For me , it was brought to a head when the person turned up @ my place of employment , drunk as a skunk, asking for me.
Tell her NOT to ring you again if she has been drinking, and if she does , hang up. Tell her you will be happy to hear from her if she is sober, but if not , DONT ring.

Your sobriety is the most precious thing, and you need to protect it at all costs !

HUGX
Leigh