Tazman53

Best you said it BEST!!!!!! Perhaps I pray he will experience that moment of clarity and really begin his journey into sobriety.
Mar13 if you are an alcoholic like me that statement is not true, you see I have a disease, that disease is called alcoholism, it is a progressive disease and as I progressed in the disease I passed beyond the point of self control once I had one drink in me, I passed that point and was at the point where drinking was not a choice in my life, for you see I am an alcoholic who had reached the point where in order to not get sick, to just feel normal I had to drink!! I reached the point where one day I could drink from dusk till dawn and never even get a buzz and then the very next day I would only drink 6-8 beers and start slurring my speech and stumbling around, I would still drink more even then, but you see I am an alcoholic, I am powerless over alcohol once I have had one drink.

RufusACanal

Speaking up, when a member needs help is not always the loving hugs and soft words nor is it ridicule and senseless demeaning of the Alcoholic's personhood. I have a responsibility to extend the hand, both to the newcomer and the oldtimer. If either do not want to follow our traditions, our steps and our way of life, then it is my responsibilty to show them the door and provide them with an invitation to return when they are ready to follow. If you want what we have you need to do what we do.

tiburon88

That's just it rufus, I don't want what many of you AA'ers have to offer. I come here to get help from SOME people. I can celebrate MY recovery anyway I see fit. I don't sponser others and don't give leads. It's not a lie, I have been in Recovery for 5 years. It's how I view it and it helps me. Sobriety time is a big contest with many of you people and you just don't get my viewpoint. That's okay though because I only have to be honest with myself. I will pray for you guys when I am chomping on my 5 year anniversary cake. Congrats to me!!

mike_mass

Just please have the courage/decency to be as honest with your group as you have been with us.

tiburon88

I will be honest with my group, mike mass. I don't think they will be as harsh on me as some of you members here. Why is one considered a failure in the "program" if one has a few "off days" with alcohol? Relapse is a part of recovery, always has been and always will. If alcoholism is a chronic disease (which I believe it is) why is one demoted to level 1 if you pick up a drink? One characteristic of a CHRONIC disease is that it frequently returns! AA does not and will not determine whether or not I am a success, I determine that. I spent 5 long and painful years to figure that out and refuse to let anyone put me back at square one. I am unique and would almost rather be a wino in an alley than a AA robot or parakeet. At least that wino still has some original thoughts and ideas.

Mar13

yeah everybody is different
I undestand you

mike_mass

Groups are autonomous, so if they accept your 5 years then more power to you. I personally have never seen this in 17+ years, but every group is unique. I'm glad you are telling them, it shows good character.

Fluttering

Tib....no one is a failure...Not if you are continuning to suit up and show up..

for me...in early recovedry i did stop drinking and had a strong willing determination to remain alchol free...i came in in ASeptember..but it was not until December that I realized beong "clen and sober" meant I also had to stop the drugs.
It was my own choice to change my sobriety date. today I celebrate the day from when I became free from chemical dependance. I too turned my chips back in..But I did so with a prayer that I would earn them back...and I have ...many times over. That was my own choice.
What others think or say does not have to define me. My rigorous honesty is my own.
It is an individual choice.It is not our job to take anyone's inventory..
All we each have is our own experience, strength and hope to share. I have enough on my own plate to deal with..I don't need the role of taking anyone else's inventory.
How do you feel? What feels right to you? What does your HP have to say to you about this?

If you can live in your own skin and look at yourself in the mirror and feel right with your HP...More power to you..

hugs & prayers to you

NOMOMERLOTMAMMA

You know, one of the things that AA has helped me work on and do without it the perception of myself that I'm unique. The fight to be unique has been a battle my whole life..ME ME ME ME ME. Yeah, one of my nicknames is still "Princess" but it's getting better..and the reason that it is getting better is through AA, and step work. It's not just about NOT DRINKING, its about changing the stuff in me that, well, wasn't really good stuff to have, and helped eat away at my self esteem so I picked up that drink. I'm growing up at 43. It takes some folks longer.

Ti, I don't think that I'm an AA robot. The people in the rooms aren't robots either..I haven't met one. What I have met are people who share with me what worked for them.

It just doesn't sit right with me, and wouldn't sit right with me to pick up a chip for being sober when I've slipped up. The thing about relapses is that they aren't good things to have, but facing the whys and wheres as to why they happened and working on making those things become manageable. The key, I think, is honesty.

I'm surprised that you won't hear some talk about picking up your chip at your group, and I think that it sends a bad message to a newcomer.

Again, respectfully,

Karen

SaTiT

I don't know. i go to AA for other stuff aside from picking up chips or chicks.lol

I butted heads with my sponsor at first ...I wanted to work the steps.
He insisted that I just make a gradtitude list.
I guess i can consider him a bulley, becuase he tolded me straight up,
he'll fire my ass if i don't follow directions and not to call him until I made a gradtitue list. Then I called him thinking...woo hooo I get to work the steps.
Nope...he told me to make another gradtitude list.lol

I'm gratful for what I have today. The 1000+ contiunous days of not drinking
and using it plenty for me.
The reason why I love my one day so much and it has so much value to me is
becuase i stopped doing it oneday at a time and relapsed.

I use to do most of my book reports as kid on Hitler.
the crazy dude interested me for some reason..lol
not AA stuff, and don't really know if he's evil or not.
But i do know..he lost the freaken war becuase everybody
around him told him what he wanted hear...contrary to what the evidence are.

nandm

Interesting perspective. The question still remains, are you working the program of A.A., which gives chips for sobriety time or are you working a program of recovery that is not A.A.? The chips in A.A. represent sober time not recovery time. There is a difference. One can work on recovery for many years and still not have sobriety. On the other hand one can work on recovery for many years and have sobriety with it.

From my perspective, if I respected A.A. then I would not choose to lie about my sobriety time to steal a chip. But I try to work a recovery program based on honesty not just to myself but to others. If you want a chip for your recovery time then be honest when you pick up the chip and state you have not been sober for that time but you want the chip for your recovery time. Lying will keep you drunk.

If you have a desire to stop drinking then A.A. is for you otherwise, why are you going?

Good luck, some day I hope you find peace and serenity.

RufusACanal

On occasion, I have heard of that unique and miraculous recovered person, who apparently overnight discovered something beyond the experiences of millions of recovered and recovering people. I am still waiting to hear what that "something" is, but I have a feeling it is really not all that miraculous or new. I think it is called defiant, rebellious, discontented and resentful. Some are truly sicker than others and I believe you are one of those folks today; many of us were the same at some point in our lives. Never fear, AA will be here if you have another opportunity to recover. I just wonder if you will ever get another opportunity.

Peter

Um Tib...? Relapse is NOT part of recovery as you put it..... never was, never will be.That statement is an oxymoron.

Relapse is part of the DISEASE.

tiburon88

Um Peter..., relapse is a reality and frequently the norm.

barb dwyer

and yet is not overlookable in a continual program of recovery

Tazman53

Folks I am not going to reply to this thread any more, this thread to me is proving potentially harmful to those seeking real recovery and sobriety.

It has brought me very close to posting something that I would really regret having posted.

In one way I feel a resentment on this topic and in another I feel a true sadness to see someone slipping away.

BP44

As Bill Sees It Pg 3, " I used to commiserate with all people who suffer, now I only comisserate with those who suffer in ignorance and do not understand the power and utility of pain". So, those who know better, but choose to do it anyway, I do not cosign their BS. Defiance is not a sign of spiritual progress, but then again you have relegated the 12 steps to something others may need to do, but not yourself. i found that self delusion was never very helpful and in most of our cases is fatal. Keep us posted on how that works for you. So far all I see is bitterness, resentment, and fear.

RufusACanal

This individual's words here portray what I have thought and rarely spoken as a active alcoholic. I live a new life now and like Taz will not respond to this member again and place him on ignore. Thank you all for standing up for a new life and not the old.

findingout

This is has been a great thread for my recovery because it has made me think about my recovery and what my sober time means to me.

Taz, I'd be willing to be some of SaTiT's millions that a year ago you would have posted and then maybe regretted

tiburon88

Thanx everyone! I did not know personal attacks and nasty PM messages were tolerated here on this website. Perhaps some are angry because I have more "recovery" time then them but ya know I got it one day at a time. You people and AA do not define who I am or whether I am a success or not. Fighting people in AA is like fighting a riptide, the harder you swim against it, the worse it gets. I will keep you in my prayers.



Recovery Since Oct 1 2002...........