urobolus

Okay, so I know a little bit about the clinical definition of alcoholism a la DSM-IV, but I was wondering whether someone more knowledgeable and aware of warning signs could help me with this question.

I have a friend (well, after a certain event, more of a distant friend) who, when he drinks, completely changes. You can see that his eyes are no longer the eyes of the person he normally is, and he usually gets out of control.

However, no one ever minded before as 'out of control' meant not stopping on a drinking binge, singing and dancing around too loudly and saying rather inappropriate things that very much grated on people's nerves. Though this is annoying, to say the least, my friends and I figured "well, he only does it on the weekends, and it doesn't interfere with work, so maybe he's just a bad drunk."

However, recently I saw him completely lose control and get violent. After drinking for a few hours, he started picking fights with his friends and screaming at others. Eventually he ended up heavily beating a woman who not only was his friend but mine--this, for me, was a breaking point when I could no longer bear to be around him. (The poor girl had suffered other abuse in her life, too, making the crime worse)

Is he an alcoholic or just bad when he's drunk? I know oftentimes drunk people who aren't alcoholics--just immature--will get into fights, but in this case it was almost irrational and the way he fought was so vicious and unchecked.

So, as you can garner from the above, he doesn't exhibit ALL the clinical characteristics of alcoholism. He's productive at work and rarely drinks during the week...but on the weekends, with the way his face looks and the way he acts, I wonder...

What do you think?


Note:

Assault is assault, whether you're an alcoholic or not, and my friends and I have dealt with that part of the problem, including calling the police and figuring out the legal repercussions of what he's done; you don't attack another unless you're attacked, and beating up on a woman is about as low as you can get. No excuses, even for good friends. My question here is asked in the interest of solving the other half of the problem...

GrouchoTheCat

Only he can decide but he sure doesn't sound like any 'social' drinker I ever heard of.

Are you in a position to help him? Do you even think he would talk about his alcohol use without becoming defensive?

I am an alcoholic, and it took me many years to get serious about sobriety. I just couldn't (wouldn't?) face it.

You could consult an addiction specialist about an intervention.

Thats about all the suggestions I have, you may want to try the family and friends forum.

Also, if you do decide to help it can be a serious emotional stress.

Good luck,

Ted

Dee74

Hi Urobolus,

I don't think it matters whether he's an alcoholic or shows all the classic signs of alcoholism or not, by your post, he clearly has a problem....

and, just as an aside, I know many people who "are productive at work and who rarely drink during the week" who nevertheless are far from problem free...

just my .02

D

Peter

Whether your friend is an alcoholic or not the type of behaviour he exhibits when he drinks is enough to convince me that he should not touch a drop again for the rest of his life.

urobolus

Hm, interesting...

I don't know whether I want to help or not; it seems harsh to simply abandon him, but I feel like if I remain friends with him I am only reaffirming that his behavior is 'okay', and probably insulting the battered girl, who I respect just as much as anyone. And I don't know whether he'll 'own up' to what he's done.

Tess37

The only help I would offer is a ride to either an AA meeting or a rehab. Other than that, I would leave him alone. Some of us have to lose everything before we figure out that we have a problem, or ask for help... remaining in his life may prolong that from happening.... Hopefully, his seeing what he has done will wake him up a bit as to the path he may be taking, then again, it may not. Alcoholism is a progressive disease, what may be just on the weekends now can change at the drop of a hat... if he indeed is an alcoholic (only he can tell you that) let him fall so that he can get back up

SaTiT

I can't your friend is an alcoholic or not..
This is what the NIAAA says about the affects alcohol has on the brain

http://pubs.niaaa.nih.gov/publications/aa63/aa63.htm

Peter

Thanks Satit. I just scanned it but that looks like a good link.

parentrecovers

nice to meet you, urobolus. my daughter is an alcoholic and alanon meetings really help me. blessings, k

Mercedes1

....."So, as you can garner from the above, he doesn't exhibit ALL the clinical characteristics of alcoholism. He's productive at work and rarely drinks during the week...but on the weekends...."

I can see nothing of the sort? I am not sure where you came up with the definition of alchoholism but that sure is not it. It is NOT how much you drink or when. It is not how put together you are on the outside, what job you have or not, how much money you have or type of friends. It is WHAT ALCHOHOL DOES TO YOU. Binge drinking does not immune one from alchohism. Also, Alcholism can be well hidden. Most if not all are isolation drinkers.

For me, I have friends to this day that have never seen me out line, I have a dream job, successful home life...friends, active in church...loving family...athletic, work yout 5miles a day...eat well, don't smoke or do drugs. However I joined AA last January after 25 years of abuse to myself and others throught alchohol. There were times when I managed the drinking...one or two..there were times when I stopped ...but all was part of a nice progression of choosing a substance to "manage life" rather than God. You can do this with anything..not just a substance (relationships, work, sex).

For me, alchohol was my crutch, my dream drug. It changes me. I can hide it well but it exposed me in th end. My personality, my choices, my reactions/proactions. The people I love the most are effected however usually the people I love the most, will not admit I do wrong to them. I have had close calls where people (as in your description above prior to this man's violent stage) brushed off. Noone brushed it off more than me.

The other issue is you cannot compare one alchoholic to another. You relate. Being you are not an alchoholic but a very good friend to be concerned I tend to lean on this person seriously does have a problem...but unfortunately it is not just aclhohol. Alchohol is the SYMPTOM,,,the reasons behind it are endless.

And you are right, violence in any way, shape or form ESPECIALLY to a woman (or child I might add) is inexcuseable and lowest of lows. Drunk or not. He deserves and well should be accountable.

The other unfortunate side of this..it is futile whether you come to terms or not, your friend has to do it. Whether or not you rationalize his behavior, He most likely will. "I just had too much"..." had too much on my mind"..."she rubbed me wrong"...whatever!!!!

In terms of "alchoholsm"...be careful to not let socially or unsocially acceptable attitudes or status define who is alchoholic or what that is ..it is what one becomes when they drink...but it is also who they are before they take that drink.

IMHO, to get to the violence..he will have to face sobriety. That is core to staying sober. Character defects/choices are all behind it...and need to be delt with. For me and what I would recommend, is your friend needs to come to terms himself he is powerless, he needs to accept there is a power greater..and hopefully he will learn that is God and give it to Him. God and only God will help him deal with why he drinks and help him learn to get through w/out destructive behavior. The best revenge to your life is living well. Who better to teach living well AND freely give you the power to do it then God.