Music

It's a power game alright, but it's not his game, it's yours! Where does it say anywhere that other people have to change just because I decide to quit drinking? Why did you go into the drawer after he suggested that you not go there? You knew what was in there!

We drunks are a piece of work. I used to think that my not drinking was a big deal, and that everyone should sit up and take notice. Then my sponsor told me to get off my high horse. When I sobered up, I started doing what I should have been doing all along, and the whole world isn't going to come to a screaching halt and bow down to me. Big Book quotes are good for making a point and here's another one:

"Assuming we are spiritually fit, we can do all sorts of things alcoholics are not supposed to do. People have said we must not go where liquor is served; we must not have it in our homes; we must shun friends who drink; we must avoid moving pictures which show drinking scenes; we must not go into bars; our friends must hide their bottles if we go to their houses; we mustn't think or be reminded about alcohol at all.

We meet these conditions every day. An alcoholic who cannot meet them, still has an alcoholic mind; there is something the matter with his spiritual status. His only chance for sobriety would be some place like the Greenland Ice Cap, and even there an Eskimo might turn up with a bottle of scotch and ruin everything! Ask any woman who has sent her husband to distant places on the theory he would escape the alcohol problem."

To expect others to change just you are is egotistical and self-centered and that's what got us here in the first place.

A good AA friend of mine said once, "Not drinking is easy! That hard thing to do is get down out of the high chair, take the thumb out of our mouth and start behaving responsibly."

Tazman53

Music for me what you say is true, I have had the urge/need to drink lifted from me, some are not there yet, some never are, but they are working on getting there.

There is booze in my house, for cooking, but there was a day not to long ago that if I was out it would have done!

My wife loves me and supports me in my sobriety, she has totally quit drinking with or without me even though I have told her that it does not bother me.

If I was not by the grace of God at the point I am so rapidly in my sobriety and I was still experiencing the urge/need to drink I would ask my wife to get rid of any booze from the house and because she loves me and supports me it would be gone.

Keep in mind music that it is not until Step ten that the following is promised: I understand what you are saying if one expects to go into some one elses house and thinks they should not drink because of them.

Music

Thanks for your comment Taz. Am I to understand that up until step 10, it's still ok to fight anything and anyone? Some folks don't reach step 10 for a long time because they're told they should work the steps at their own pace. Be that as it may, it's never too early to learn that getting sober is my responsibility, no matter what anyone else says or does. I may let someone know what bothers me if I care to, but then to follow up by looking for trouble is a control problem, which is what got me here in the first place. The idea is to turn my will and life over to the care of my HP, and there's no stipulation as to whether or not the people around me change, or go out of their way to make me comfortable. I repeat, just because I choose to get sober, doesn't mean the whole world and the people in it should change to suit me.

mallowcup

I think what you did was awesome! You about 100 oppprtunites to open those bottles and you were even ticked at the time. You didn't do it. I'm proud of you and it has to feel better having them gone.

Tazman53

Music that is not at all how I feel, notice I did say "I", I totally agree with you, but in reading the promises after step nine it says that for some things come quickly and others slowly.

Please understand where I am coming from, every one is different in their progression in the program, there is a guy I know that has 21 years under his belt and has still not been able to get past step three, I have seen this man in tears due to his inablility to be willing to turn it over.

For some one new to sobreity to expect the whole world to change to where they will not be tempted is totally unreal, but one certainly should be able to expect their life partner to understand that if thier partner is not over the hump of temptation yet and ask them not to have booze around that they would comply just out of love.

I did not ask for all booze to be taken out of my house, but that is me. My wife has made the decision to not drink in my presence or out of it, that is her choice. I have let everyone in my extended family that I have quit, but also let them know that if they want to drink in front of me that is just fine.

It is one thing to avoid situations that may tempt one to pick up in the early stages of sobriety, but a totally different thing when you own home has the temptation right in it. Should I keep a flask in my hip pocket to prove that I am doing well?

I know folks in the rooms with well over 10 years sober that to this day still do not allow booze in their own homes and do not go to any place that is serving it. I have far less then a year and could care less if there is booze around, but that is me.

Music

"but one certainly should be able to expect their life partner to understand that if thier partner is not over the hump of temptation yet and ask them not to have booze around that they would comply just out of love."

Everyone has the right to let their feelings be known to those around them but nobody has the right to "expect" others to change to suit their needs. Expectations are nothing more than "premeditated resentments" and the proof is in this thread.

As for the person with 21 years not being able to get past step 3; it's not because he can't, it's because he "won't." He's entitled to live in his own misery caused by his own decisions.

The people I've met in AA who are the most miserable are the ones who insisit on wearing their alcoholism on their sleeve with the idea that it's a curse, or some "scarlet letter" that dooms them to a life of fear and anxiety over taking that next drink. Remember, I cease fighting anything and anyone, including alcohol.

Tazman53

Music on this point we will have to agree to disagree, my wife and I love each other, as a result we also respect each others problems and due to our love & respect for each other, without questions asked, if something I can do to help her with an issue is asked of me that I am capable of doing I will do it!

This is what I was taught and feel love is, our opinions of love and respect for ones signifigant others differ, so be it.
Once again I am not talking about "others", I am talking about someone who is supposed to love and respect you, to me there is a huge difference, if there was not a difference then why the heck get married? Others are simply others.

Agreed 100%, he has something I do not want.

No doubt about that, lack of tolerance or understanding of others needs or feelings is also thick on this thread.
Agreed, my last words on this.

Nuudawn

Gotta love a lively discussion. Hmmm...Like Taz, I truly don't think it's egotistical to ask for the support of our life partner in the home we share...home should be our safe place to land. My cousin, whom I share a home with asked me if I wanted all the booze removed when I quit drinking. I told him he did not have to do that ..but WOW...what a fantastic show of love and support. I find "support" quite a wonderful thing in my sobriety...when actively alcoholic I was all over everything being my fight, my doing, my thing to fix, my, my, my...ad nauseum. How lovely it is to take, ask for or extend a helping hand.

Music

Good comments Taz. Bottom line is that anything or anyone I put in front of my sobriety, will eventually cause me to lose focus on what's really important and I'll lose my sobriety. Whether or not anyone else stays sober, or what method they use to get sober, is none of my business. All I can do is share my message through my experiences. Whether or not my message helps anyone else or not is likewise none of my business. Sharing keeps me sober. Thanks for the discussion. Maybe kpnewlife will pick up some pointers, and maybe not.

Tazman53

God I love AA and what it has brought to me and others Music, we had what in my drinking days could have really developed into a real urine spitting contest, instead we had a level headed respectful discussion, we both expressed our opinions and explained why we felt that way.

No one is mad or hurt, I am sitting here with a grin on my face and I know I learned things and I pray others have also.

Music

Right on Nuudawn. Ask for support and by all means let friends and loved ones know support is needed, but to cop a resentment when it doesn't happen leads to anger, frustration, and ill feelings which are not condusive to staying focused and staying sober. Hope should be a soft place to land but to the newly sober, home may be a place of turmoil, mental, emotional, and spiritual sickness due to untreated alcoholism. A softer place to land is sometimes an AA meeting or a sponsor's home where there's safety and real understanding. When I was first getting sober, I didn't know what to expect from myself, let alone anyone else.

Music

Taz, you remind me of me when I was new in AA. I literally hung on to AA like a drowning man. I was like a dry spunge, soaking up all I could, going to meetings every night, while eatting, sleeping, talking AA and doing my best to live a new life. If you keep on with the mindset you're currently in, you have nothing but great things in your future. I'll be celebrating another milestone in sobriety in a couple weeks, and I have been given gifts way beyond my wildest dreams, and I've received them from people just like you, who were there for me when I first came to AA. I can see in your postings that you've been given the gift of a new beginning, but also the enthusiasm and the desire to make the best of that new gift. Keep up the good work.

Nuudawn

I totally concur Music...any festering resentment is ours to address. And yep, we certainly have "expectations" of our life partners...that yep, when not met will lead to resentment. Newly sober, I too have no idea what to expect from myself...none...I don't know who I am since everything I was was a load of ego infested bullsh***t.

Tazman53

And I thought we had never met!!! LOL

Music thanks, BTW what milestone will you be celebrating? You are right, I am like a sponge and have been lucky enough to have a great sponsor who is a no BS, BB natzi, who lives the steps and I also have several Old Timers that help me keep my head screwed on as straight as is possible for a drunk with a 40 year career of drinking and less then 5 months experience in being sober.

I was that drowning man you speak of when I first got out of detox, luckily for me I am in the arms of some great AA folks who are helping me keep my head above water without me having to fight the sharks off, unless of course I find myself doing my own thing by not listening to what theyand my HP have told me !

I really am truly blessed, why I am not sure, but that old need/urge to drink has been lifted from me. I must admit I find it odd to not care when someone is drinking right in front of me, do not get me wrong the committee in my head still speaks to me every once in a while, but I have to laugh at them now, because they jump up and speak at the dumbest times.

The last 2 times the committee spoke to me I was going out to get in my truck to go over to my sponsor's to work on some step work and they said "Dude you better stop and get some beer if you are going to a friends house!". This past Monday when I was heading over to work on the steps they must have figured out that telling me to get beer when I am going to work on the steps is not really a weak point in time for me! LOL

kpnewlife

Wow, I've officially been called out. j/k. Thanks, music. I can assure you I am learning a lot from this thread and many others. I too am striving to become a sponge in my early sobriety soaking up as much information on how to live as I can. I thought sobriety was mostly about not drinking until I started recovering. It may be the most important part but it is just a small piece of the puzzle. Coming to understand yourself, your previous motives, and how you can change is what it is really all about. I know now that the only thing I need to be selfish about is my sobriety. I'll echo what music said in that I can't let anyone or anything come before that in my life or I'll lose it. Keep the the advice coming. I'm a pretty big sponge and have room to soak up a lot more.

kp

Golfman

Music and Taz...the reason the man with 21 years is still stuck on Step 3 is because he feels like he has to "do it" before he moves on. He obviously doesn't have a sponsor. If he's going to meetings and talking about this, I'm even more surprised that someone hasn't given him some direction. Step 3 is nothing more than making a decision. I can make a decision to cut my grass tomorrow but until I take the action of cutting the grass I've only made a decision.

IMHO, we make a decision in Step 3, that's all. The action associated with Step 3, actually turning my will and my life over to the care of God, comes from working Steps 4 thru 9. That's when I step out in faith and clean up the wreckage of the past and make amends. That's the process by which we actually turn our will and our lives over to the care of God.

Again, this is only my opinion but it has worked for me for over 20 years.

Music

You go kp. Keep soaking up all you can and don't worry about what anyone else does. I believe it has to be this way for a while. There came a point in my recovery when I started to feel like there were other things I should be paying attention to, but in the beginning, not drinking is good. If you take a look at the steps, the first half of step 1 is the only time alcohol is mentioned. There's good reason for that. The rest of the steps deal with being happy sober, not not drinking. As you're working the steps you become more familiar with yourself and your motives. When I took a look back at who I'd become, and looked around me to see who I could become, the answers were clear.

All I know Golfman is that I have to pray for the guy with 21 years. He's selling himself so short by not going beyond step 2. But who knows? At some point, he may hear or see what it takes to cause him to think progress is a good idea.

Golfman

Some folks have a very high threshhold for pain. I know I couldn't have lasted 21 years with that kind of misery. IMHO, I'd rather have a drink than live like that.