Moderation drinking? can it work?
Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Bangor, maine
Posts: 78
I really wanted to comment on this.
First of all statistically there are drinkers who can return to being able to drink moderately after a period of abstinence. It is around 10%.
The problem with this statistic is it offers false hope to alcholics, the other 90%. I am in that 90%.
What typifies being an alcoholic, besides the physical addiction, is a *loss of control*. Most of the time I can be a good boy. However when the blue meanie comes out of the bottle, I have no control. It is very unpredictable.
And a long binge is very catastrophic. All the rationalizations in the world, like I can handle this, and I will learn to handle this is just a type of obsession with alcohol.
To anyone reading this: you may be in the 10%. But the odds are against it. Binge drinking, doing really, really, embaressing things while drunk, ecetera, is not a one time thing with me. Destroyed friendships are not a one time thing with me.
And yes, a great deal of an alcoholics problem is being delivered in a mental and emotional state which dictates they need alcohol to stop the pain of daily existence.
However the first thing that must be done in order to stop salcoholism is to stop drinking. The one thing an alcoholic does not want to do. Yes, I applaud people working on their issues, (and we all have issues). However that will not stop abusive drinking. Only stopping drinking will actually stop someone from drinking.
First of all statistically there are drinkers who can return to being able to drink moderately after a period of abstinence. It is around 10%.
The problem with this statistic is it offers false hope to alcholics, the other 90%. I am in that 90%.
What typifies being an alcoholic, besides the physical addiction, is a *loss of control*. Most of the time I can be a good boy. However when the blue meanie comes out of the bottle, I have no control. It is very unpredictable.
And a long binge is very catastrophic. All the rationalizations in the world, like I can handle this, and I will learn to handle this is just a type of obsession with alcohol.
To anyone reading this: you may be in the 10%. But the odds are against it. Binge drinking, doing really, really, embaressing things while drunk, ecetera, is not a one time thing with me. Destroyed friendships are not a one time thing with me.
And yes, a great deal of an alcoholics problem is being delivered in a mental and emotional state which dictates they need alcohol to stop the pain of daily existence.
However the first thing that must be done in order to stop salcoholism is to stop drinking. The one thing an alcoholic does not want to do. Yes, I applaud people working on their issues, (and we all have issues). However that will not stop abusive drinking. Only stopping drinking will actually stop someone from drinking.
Om, Aum, Ohm...
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Punxsutawney/Pittsburgh
Posts: 4,797
I find the term "harm reduction" to be a curious one.
I was violent when I drank. If I reduced the episodes of violence while drinking from 8 in 10 to 3 in 10, should I claim to be successfully reducing the harm of my drinking, according to the MM plan?
Peace & Love,
Sugah
I was violent when I drank. If I reduced the episodes of violence while drinking from 8 in 10 to 3 in 10, should I claim to be successfully reducing the harm of my drinking, according to the MM plan?
Peace & Love,
Sugah
Knucklehead
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Davenport, WA
Posts: 4,005
It's not my ultimate goal, and I wouldn't recommend it, but I've managed to keep my drinking in the 1-3 a day range, sometimes skipping a day without realizing it. Sometimes it's difficult, and sometimes I don't think about it at all. There was a time when I was hungover almost every day and blacked out a couple of nights a week. I seem to be getting better at not letting that happen.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 61
Sugah,
I think the term "harm reduction" refers mainly to reducing the harm done to our bodies by the alcohol we consume. I may be wrong, it might also encompass other types of harm, I guess I just never looked at it that way. Anyway, from what I understand, things like drinking lots of water, taking vitamins, eating healthy, exersizing, etc., these are all methods of harm reduction. They don't *eliminate* the effects of alcohol on the body, but they may reduce the damage.
I think the term "harm reduction" refers mainly to reducing the harm done to our bodies by the alcohol we consume. I may be wrong, it might also encompass other types of harm, I guess I just never looked at it that way. Anyway, from what I understand, things like drinking lots of water, taking vitamins, eating healthy, exersizing, etc., these are all methods of harm reduction. They don't *eliminate* the effects of alcohol on the body, but they may reduce the damage.
Om, Aum, Ohm...
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Punxsutawney/Pittsburgh
Posts: 4,797
kats,
My post was a cynical attempt at humor. I recognize, or had assumed, that "harm reduction" referred to the effects on the body. With few exceptions, problem drinkers rarely ever harm only themselves. The cost of "problem drinking" is huge -- from health care, to public safety, to production lost on the job...the list is practically endless.
Fact is, I don't know anything about Moderation Management. I've never considered it because I'm one of those alcholics who think of having a drink or two as a pointless exercise. I can't understand why anyone would want to do that or even try it. The times that I tried to cut down to make someone else happy (because it never made me happy) were miserable. For me, it makes no sense, so I don't drink at all.
Peace & Love,
Sugah
My post was a cynical attempt at humor. I recognize, or had assumed, that "harm reduction" referred to the effects on the body. With few exceptions, problem drinkers rarely ever harm only themselves. The cost of "problem drinking" is huge -- from health care, to public safety, to production lost on the job...the list is practically endless.
Fact is, I don't know anything about Moderation Management. I've never considered it because I'm one of those alcholics who think of having a drink or two as a pointless exercise. I can't understand why anyone would want to do that or even try it. The times that I tried to cut down to make someone else happy (because it never made me happy) were miserable. For me, it makes no sense, so I don't drink at all.
Peace & Love,
Sugah
Member
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: some where / no where
Posts: 1,019
I'm finding this thread to be really interesting.
Kats- After re-reading your earlier posts, I understand where you were coming from when you mentioned MM. I get a bit excited about the topic because it hits really close to home.
The quote about enjoying vs controling drinking came from the Big Book of Alcoholics Anonymous. It's from a story called "Crossing the river of denial", and it starts on pg. 328 of the 4th edition.
I should include references when I throw out quotes....
chip
Kats- After re-reading your earlier posts, I understand where you were coming from when you mentioned MM. I get a bit excited about the topic because it hits really close to home.
The quote about enjoying vs controling drinking came from the Big Book of Alcoholics Anonymous. It's from a story called "Crossing the river of denial", and it starts on pg. 328 of the 4th edition.
I should include references when I throw out quotes....
chip
Awaiting Email Confirmation
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Worcester
Posts: 789
Originally Posted by fedup 
I have been reading about MM... Moderation Management ..Can this really work for some types of people? anyone here know of any successes?
Member
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: uk
Posts: 41
i've tried the drinking in moderation lot's of times and i can do it but it's so hard and take up so much of my energy thinking about how much shall i have to drink and when ect that it's best that i don't drink at all.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 1,415
Moderation is the preferred philosophy in the drink treatment centres on Merseyside. Little charts and tables and whatnot. I'm not going to knock it for those people for whom it works. It worked for me for a matter of hours. Sometime after lunch I lost the ability to control my drinking. lol.
As it says in the book, our hats are off to them! But we all know, we had to try it, formally or informally, and repeatedly, before we acknowledged - there's something different about us.
As it says in the book, our hats are off to them! But we all know, we had to try it, formally or informally, and repeatedly, before we acknowledged - there's something different about us.
L'il fighter
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Mississauga, Ontario
Posts: 297
It would be unfortunate if people were so put off by AA that they totally discard the idea of sober-living. I have nothing against AA, but it's not really something I've been able to get into. BUT....I am living sober. And I know for a fact that if I had the ability to moderate my drinking I wouldn't be posting on a forum for alcoholics. Been there, tried that. I've proven MANY times over that I can't control my drinking, as I'm sure everyone on this board has also.
Follow Directions!
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Fredericksburg, Va.
Posts: 9,730
"the success of total abstainence is poor at best."
I am an alcoholic, moderation is out of the question, there is no need for me to repeat what so many of my fellow self admitted alcoholics have said so well.
Alcoholics can not drink in moderation for long periods of time.
Several folks here have said it so well, if one can go 30 days with out a drink, why in the world would one want to drink again?
Normal people do not sit around and think about when they are going to drink and when they are not going to drink. Normal people do not tell them selfs how many drinks they will have at one sitting.
Normal people get up from the dinner table and leave a half full glass of wine and could care less, they also can get off of a barstool and leave an unfinshed drink...... I am an alcoholic, I can not do that, as a result I do not drink, I once again love and respect myself, my family and my friends.
What ever means an alcoholic uses to get and stay sober it sure appears to me as though the only thing that works for an alcoholic is "TOTAL ABSTINANCE!".
I tried MM for 10 years and was miserable unless I got wasted, then I was even more miserable, it was not until I quit drinking that I found happiness and self respect.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: b.c. canada
Posts: 23
wow.. lots of good replys to this thread. So heres the scoop on me.
All my inquiries about MM drinking stemmed from comments to me from my alcoholic aunt who has been sober 5 years. She knows me well. She thinks I am not an alcoholic that I just need to deal with issues in my life mainly. Well after spending 36 days sober and praying, reading ,meditationg on my anger issues I came to some really good insights about myself. Really dwelt on what my triggers were. I realized I would turn to a drink instead of going thru the emotions. I read about MM and wondered if it was for me mainly because during the 36 days I had no physical cravings for alcohol whatsoever. I did their questionairre and I came up as a low dependency drinker. So I set up a plan for myself. I bought a bottle of wine friday setting a limit of 2 glasses per day at 2 days a week. So far it has been great. I finished the bottle last night with my spouse having 2 glasses himself. 1 bottle the whole weekend is not bad.
I have incorporated food with my wine, something I usually didnt do before. That makes a big difference in moderation. The biggest thing I am doing is monitoring my mood before i take a wine. Before i drank emotionally. ie: angry, frustrated, rebellious, loney or rewarding myself. Now I will only take a glass if none of these feeling are present. 1 glass is satisfying and enough this way, for me. I may be in the 10% that can do this. If not, I sure will let y'all know. Thanks everyone for your good insights.
All my inquiries about MM drinking stemmed from comments to me from my alcoholic aunt who has been sober 5 years. She knows me well. She thinks I am not an alcoholic that I just need to deal with issues in my life mainly. Well after spending 36 days sober and praying, reading ,meditationg on my anger issues I came to some really good insights about myself. Really dwelt on what my triggers were. I realized I would turn to a drink instead of going thru the emotions. I read about MM and wondered if it was for me mainly because during the 36 days I had no physical cravings for alcohol whatsoever. I did their questionairre and I came up as a low dependency drinker. So I set up a plan for myself. I bought a bottle of wine friday setting a limit of 2 glasses per day at 2 days a week. So far it has been great. I finished the bottle last night with my spouse having 2 glasses himself. 1 bottle the whole weekend is not bad.
I have incorporated food with my wine, something I usually didnt do before. That makes a big difference in moderation. The biggest thing I am doing is monitoring my mood before i take a wine. Before i drank emotionally. ie: angry, frustrated, rebellious, loney or rewarding myself. Now I will only take a glass if none of these feeling are present. 1 glass is satisfying and enough this way, for me. I may be in the 10% that can do this. If not, I sure will let y'all know. Thanks everyone for your good insights.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: some where / no where
Posts: 1,019
Hello Fedup-
I'm glad you are finding solutions that work for you. There all all sorts of people in this world, and all sorts of solutions. This thread was useful because it shows how abstinence is the ONLY way for real alcoholics.
God Bless You,
chip
I'm glad you are finding solutions that work for you. There all all sorts of people in this world, and all sorts of solutions. This thread was useful because it shows how abstinence is the ONLY way for real alcoholics.
God Bless You,
chip
Member
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: derbyshire uk
Posts: 73
[QUOTE=.
I am an alcoholic, moderation is out of the question, there is no need for me to repeat what so many of my fellow self admitted alcoholics have said so well.
Alcoholics can not drink in moderation for long periods of time.
Several folks here have said it so well, if one can go 30 days with out a drink, why in the world would one want to drink again?
Normal people do not sit around and think about when they are going to drink and when they are not going to drink. Normal people do not tell them selfs how many drinks they will have at one sitting.
never a truer word spoken taz thats why ill never drink again. thanks mate
mick
I am an alcoholic, moderation is out of the question, there is no need for me to repeat what so many of my fellow self admitted alcoholics have said so well.
Alcoholics can not drink in moderation for long periods of time.
Several folks here have said it so well, if one can go 30 days with out a drink, why in the world would one want to drink again?
Normal people do not sit around and think about when they are going to drink and when they are not going to drink. Normal people do not tell them selfs how many drinks they will have at one sitting.
never a truer word spoken taz thats why ill never drink again. thanks mate
mick
2 Years Sober!
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 40
Oh my...everyone does try it. In fact, look at my join date on sober recovery...august 2004. It took me almost two years trying to quit on my own, following this website call www.mywayout.org and taking all kinds of goofy drugs, and moderation before I finally quit with AA. I now have eight months of sobriety and am doing so well...
I then finally came to the realization that it IS MORE than just stopping drinking. It's changing the person behind the drinking that needs to happen...if I just tried quitting drinking on my own or even moderated, I'm still the miserable person that I was before....just dryer. AA actually brings joy to your life. It gives you a new life. It just took me forever to accept that.
I then finally came to the realization that it IS MORE than just stopping drinking. It's changing the person behind the drinking that needs to happen...if I just tried quitting drinking on my own or even moderated, I'm still the miserable person that I was before....just dryer. AA actually brings joy to your life. It gives you a new life. It just took me forever to accept that.
2 Years Sober!
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 40
Oh, for my post above...I did manage to moderate for several months (four or five), but I am still an alcoholic. Eventually, I was back to my old self again. Don't let a month, two or even six months of "moderation' fool you. You need to question the "why" behind the drinking, too.
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