Scout2019

Hello,

I'm new to the boards and finished my 4th step about 7 weeks ago. It really felt like I was "beginning to have a spiritual experience" but then...

I met with my sponsor and he is quite busy, so we met for an hour or so one week, then he had to cancel the next week due to a family emergency, then we met another hour, then he had to cancel because he thought he was coming down with a cold. We would meet in a room next to where the meeting is held and, with 1/2 an hour before the meeting, said, 'Want to call it a day and go be social?' He mostly related stories of his sobriety and how he's changed and would ask me what I was going to do to change (to which I replied, "Well, THIS is supposed to help me change, right?"). He wanted to know the couple of things I'd wanted to take to the grave, which I told him, but after that wanted only generalities, not go through the whole thing. When I insisted on reading the columns, he actually would point out the other person's wrong(s) in the situation. I finally got frustrated and said, "I don't give a sh*t about the other people, I'm trying to see MY part".

So, after about a month, I thanked him for getting me started, and asked someone else to work with me. She doesn't want to hear it, either, and said as much! She asked for a couple of representative situations and talked to me about negativity and being more positive. She told me to start listing things that work for me each day rather than things that don't work for me. I'm not saying that's not a useful idea, but still doesn't get me through the 5th step.

This is the most "serious" meeting where I live (a BB study) with a lot of sobriety time (the first has 33 years, the other 15 years). I talked to another woman with 20+ years and she said, "Oh I don't sponsor...I'm not good at it".

Should I just keep shopping around? It feels strange to keep bouncing around begging someone to listen to this thing. I don't go to church (so a minister is out), my spouse and family- not a good idea, friends are mostly acquaintance type friends.

I suppose I can pay someone like a psychologist to listen to it? The book does say that we can postpone as long as we stand ready as soon as the situation changes to where there IS someone to hear it. If that's the case, do I just move on with the steps on my own?

I have to admit, I've become pretty frustrated and discouraged. I'm going to have to do an inventory on it...but then, who'll listen?

Thanks much.

sugarbear1

That person is so wrong. Sitting on a 4th step will take you back out drinking! Get through that 5th step asap!!!! (re-visit your 4th step the night before your 5th step discussion).

I wish you well on finding a real sponsor and on your sober journey!

(I've had that sponsor before or someone like her and she had me drinking again really fast!)

August252015

I hate to hear all of this!

I'd likely find a new (and definitely more program focused) sponsor. The first 164 pp lay out the program- I definitely needed the structure it gives in simple form. I also think professional help is important for me, and my therapist and psychiatrist are both well versed in AA, but the step work was best with a sponsor.

I would not do the steps on your (my) own. Don't get disheartened by these folks, tho-remember that people are varied and flawed, and may be doing the best they can, and there is someone out there who will help you.

Glad you are here.

Ken33xx

Are you looking for a particular type of person? Do you want them to have long-term sobriety? Does it have to be someone you often see in meetings?

Keep asking around. I'm sure there's somebody willing to listen.

Now having said that... I too don't feel comfortable listing to someone's fifth step. However, I make this clear up front.

In my case I prefer using a priest.

Not that I have a particularly dark or sinister past. I just feel more comfortable speaking with a priest in a confessional booth.

That's the way I was raised.

fini

Scout,
oof, that is a lot!

i don’t go to church, either, and i had i sponsor who would have been happy to hear whatever i wanted to share in my fifth, ut i chose to go to a nun instead, a nun who was trained in how to listen to this step.
she was helpful in helping me see patterns, and was not interested in having me read her everything i had written in my inventory. she did say if i felt i needed to read it all to her, she would listen, of course, but she saw her role more as pulling the pertinent out of a few examples. she used a big flipchart-paper, wrote diwn things as they came up, what she saw, asked some constructive questions, and basically told me i was acceptable flaws and all, and sent me on my way to do 6 and 7 .
i highly recommend going to someone who has lots of experience in this. she definitely was not into “concentrate on the positive ” or any such thing; she wanted reality of my past and present, my part in my miseries, my changing perspective, and let me know i was accepted.

Grungehead

I can certainly understand your frustration. Once I finished my 4th I was ready to unload that burden I had been carrying around for years. While it would have been nice if your sponsor was up front with you on why he was "hesitant" to listen to your 5th it's probably best that he didn't if he wasn't up to it.

I would keep looking and don't discount using clergy (even though you don't attend church). Many are trained to listen to 5th steps as well as confession and most are bound by a certain level of confidentiality. I would also look for an old-timer you respect and tell him your situation and they might listen. Basically what I'm getting at is to be proactive and don't give up on finding someone.

Getting my 5th step done is when the miracle started happening for me in the program. It took me 23+ years in and out of AA and sobriety to finally follow through with a 4th and 5th step, and the obsession to drink has not returned since.

nez

Hi Scout2019. If you wouldn't mind sharing your rough location, maybe someone on here would be willing to meet up and hear your 5th step or they might know someone nearby you that could help out.

Also Grungehead had some great advice and I echo his feelings on the liberation and miracle of the 4th and 5th steps.

There is a way to make it happen!

Tommyh

I did my first 5th step with a Catholic Priest
I wasn`t Catholic either
I had to get rid of that stuff or I was fixing to explode and get drunk
He helped me so much and He did not seem to judge me

find someone, maybe someone here could help you like nez said.


I have heard many 5th steps altho I am not too crazy about it but I really love to see people stay sober

could you call the local Intergroup and maybe someone there could help you?

Gottalife

I did my fourth step with my sponsor on a Saturday. In my fourth my sponsor helped me see my part and how I was my own worst enemy. There were patterns and once the pattern was recognized, we moved on to the next thing.
The next day took my fifth step with him. It worked fine, but the book is emphatic that we get to choose who will hear our fifth, and with those I sponsor, though we work step four together, they get to pick who they will take their fifth with. Often it is a minister of religion, and so far all have reported good results.

I note that steps four and five are in two different chapters. The directions refer to our inventory in a way that suggests it would be a good prompter for our talk, but does not say we read our fourth. Instead it suggests we tell all our life story, every dark cranny of the past, every revolting memory, every sick secret. Not all of this stuff fits easily into a four column inventory, but it must be talked about. We get all the skeletons out of the closet, give them a good airing and put them where they can no longer harm us.

This is just my opinion, but I have found it best to take this step with a single individual rather than spread it around. This is because it forces me to look at the whole sorry picture at once instead of, as I liked to do in the past, compartmentalizing and minimizing and rationalizing. By only looking at a small part, like what I thought they knew about, I could make myself appear better than I was, but in reality I was only fooling myself.

A Priest or minister is a good way to go. Unlike us laymen in AA, they are trained for this very important work.

August252015

I'm going to throw in something Mike just made me think about. As I said above, my steps were done with a sponsor. That said, my 5th (and 4th, actually) have also been worked with professional support. They were pre-drinking and pre-sobriety, but it's a whole other and more effective deal now, to say the least!

I recall being told that we can't "get it all out" on 4 therefore 5, first go. Shouldn't halt our progress, for example, if we fret over "everything." More stuff has emerged for me, hence the extended process of amends. One big one actually JUST occurred to me over Tgvng with the fam - to my brother's long term partner who I certainly hurt with my actions over the years. I'd been focused on my brother and parents, and I believe my heart was opened to more work to do when it was time.

Point being, I suppose, that my program is one of continued progress. I actually reworked 4/5 a year ago or so, as "new" things were surfacing. I shared those with my sponsor.

we aren't called to be perfect and recovery isn't a final exam. As Thomas Jefferson believed, and made a fundamental tenant of his University (my alma mater), we should never stop learning. Our levels weren't called the typical "freshman, sophomore, junior and senior" but "first, second, third, fourth years" and beyond. That's how I view my recovery.

sugarbear1

I learn from my 4th and 5th steps and always follow with 6 and 7 immediately. Who to say it to? Anyone you feel will know the process. I've heard many 5th steps, nothing different than mine, just a different pattern of behavior here and there. Again, always eye-opening; and gives me stuff to work on, or not. Always freeing and relieving, too! Love it!

Scout2019

My thanks to all of you.

I ended up reading the bulk of it to my brother, who is familiar with the 12-steps, though is on a different path spiritually. He offered some insights and pointed out some patterns that he saw. I will do the last 4 items with someone else (2 resentments, 2 fears) that wouldn't have been appropriate to read to him as they relate to him or his family.

In the 12 & 12 it indicates that it's allowable to read different parts to different people, so, since I needed to just DO IT and there wasn't just one individual willing/able to hear it, I did what I could. I'll have to trust that since I am willing and did my best to do this thoroughly and correctly, my Higher Power will honor that. It does feel a little scattered. Also, in the interim when looking for someone to read it to, I feel like I lost a lot of power and momentum, which is disturbing. It's as though mentally/spiritually, I "fell out" of the flow of it. I do hope I can get it back. I want to see this through, and not just mechanically. If I am to live, I really know that I need that psychic change.

The next time I go through the steps, I'm going to make sure in advance that I can read it to one single person.

Thanks again, everyone. I really appreciate the support and suggestions.

August252015

That's a great resolution! I too believe that the willingness, sincerity and then action we take after seeking guidance (spiritual and otherwise) is at the core of our progress and therefore sobriety. Proud of you.

awuh1

I think you have dealt with a difficult set of circumstances very well Scout. I would not worry too much about the momentum thing. The important thing is to complete the process. It's the completion and thoroughness that's essential, and you seem to be firmly on that path.

May your work lead you to a spiritual experience.

All the best to you.

sugarbear1

Did you follow at once steps 6 and 7?

Gottalife

Good job Scout, I would call that willing and no doubt you will reap the rewards. Just following up on what Sugarbear had to say about the following steps, I thought I would share some observations about potential pitfalls.

Did you read the promises on Page 75? One of those states we begin to have a spiritual experience. My experience of those promises was extremely powerful, it had a big effect as it does with many, but I somehow avoided the mistake of thinking this was "THE" spiritual experience, and I carried on as SB suggested to develop and maintain the real thing.

Folks who make the mistake of thinking this is the experience, often make the mistake of stopping with the thought that the mission has been accomplished and nothing further is required. And things stay pretty cool for a time but inevitably the discomfort returns and they begin to think they must have missed something in four or five sooooooo....... they go back and do it again hoping for the same spiritual lift they got the first time. A bit like going back to the drink, hoping for the same effect as we used to get.

But second time around, if it was done well the first time, does not bring about the same feelings, in fact it can be a let down. Why? Because our mistake wasn't in the past, it was in the fact that we never finished the job, we only half did it. Moving on is the important thing, 6,7,8 and nine, clean it all up, and live in 10,11,12.

Just compare a couple of promises between step 5 and step 10. Step five "the feeling that the drink problem has been solved will often come strongly".. Step 10 "The problem has been removed. It does not exist for us" Another level entirely.

uncle holmes

sugarbear1

I've written several 4th steps and listened to many.

They are mostly all the same.

HeadEast

Are you sure you should say that? There are new people here just learning.

August252015

^^^A way I took that is that character defects and our wrongs are not usually "new." We understand each other exactly because all of us have done some version of the same stuff- so that's why the BB lays out the process of listing resentments, fears, sex conduct (relationships)...we see threads of dishonesty, pride, greed, abusive behavior, on and on. If we are honest, thorough, and forthright, then share this stuff with another, we keep moving to steps 6-7 and further into the action steps up to 12.

This is all a reason we need a guide to help us and How It Works is the key (as part of the first 163 pp).