Dave42001

Home run, Nez!

Congrats on your 1 year plus!! Great job!

my experience.. Progress not perfection.. do your 4th to the best your ability and be honest.. do your 5th with your sponsor, or clergy, mentor within AA or another drunk.. finish the steps..

Help the new person work the steps when you’re called upon.. raise your hand at the end of meeting when they ask for those willing to be sponsors please raise their hand..

Great job! Good luck please keep us posted

sugarbear1

3 is a pattern. you can find your patterns easily without a novel!

Congrats on a year!!!

DayTrader

I've had more than my fill of doing what made sense to me, what seemed like it would work, and living the best way I could figure out had produced. It was may failure as the manager of my life that gave me the willingness, the motivation, to even consider trying AA, spirituality, working the steps, and so on.

I also had a really clear picture of what "recovery" under the Mike program was producing. For me, it was just as much confusion, self-pity, fear, frustration, feelings of inadequacy and self-doubt, messed up / unfulfilling relationships (for me AND the other person involved), and overall deep-down knowledge that things weren't REALLY improving at a pace I could stand.

On the flip side.... there was the AA program. I'd prayed for a good sponsor to show up in my life and someone appeared. Of course, they weren't up to MY standards and I spent a lot of time picking them apart in my head. I guess God wasn't listening when I said "and make them perfect." Didn't God know this was my plan, my design for my recovery? Doesn't God know......and doesn't my sponsor know..... that I know how my recovery should proceed? I know what steps to take fully, which steps to half-measure, what "extra" things I shouldn't ever be asked to do? Doesn't my sponsor, who's probably praying for divine inspiration when it comes to dealing with me know that any advice they give me, whether it comes from God or directly from their experience, may not mesh with what I think is appropriate for how I believe things should proceed? Don't God and my sponsor really know that when they asked me if I was willing to go to ANY lengths for victory over alcohol and I said yes....... that what I really meant was I'd go to only the lengths I deem appropriate, effective and sensible to me? Shouldn't my sponsor know that in spite of any divine guidance they may occasionally get, I reserve the right to veto any and every thing based upon my suspicions - prior to direct first-hand experience with the task that was just requested of me?

But there's that pesky decision we made in step 3. The one where we were asked if we were willing to stop playing God, stop pretending we're the director of our life, stop acting like we're the employer and instead assume our rightful place as employee / agent. IF I made that decision, and I'm claiming spiritual growth, how is it that God would get messages to me? One way would be to put thoughts in my head. Another way would be to use the people in my life.... ya know, the ones who are the spearheads of His ever-advancing creation... to act as mouth-pieces for His will.

Is it possible God wants me to look at some things and while the messages have been sent to me, I refused to hear them? -- ya, that's possible. Is it possible God's stepping up his game and putting those requests into someone who's super close to me, who knows me well, and whom I trust? Ya, that's possible too. Is it possible that if God and this other person are more spiritually mature than me that they could ask me to do things I don't understand, like, or agree with? Ya, I suppose.....

Alternatively... I could go back to contempt prior to investigation. I could just write it off as stupid, uneducated, or a waste of my time. Rather than listen to this sponsor who I've invited into my life for x-amount of hours, days, weeks, or months.... I'll look for ideas that back me in going back to my old lifestyle - that of self-will, me being the director, me managing my life. I guess that means I'll have to toss out the 1st step too......since I'm now back in management but that's ok..... I'll be fine. I know what I'm doing and wait and see, I'll look hard enough and I'm sure I'll find people who'll support me in this endeavor...... might even find some in AA.

I worked ^^^^^^^ program for as long as I could take (stand?) it. Had a LOT of support in doing it too. Lots of folks out there were just as sick as I was and were happy to recommend it to me. Hand in hand we went..... into what I'd personally call the living hell of being a dry-drunk.

DayTrader

Sometimes we had to search fearlessly

we beg of you to be fearless and thorough from the very start

Some of us have tried to hold on to our old ideas and the result was nil until we let go absolutely

Half measures availed us nothing

(a) That we were alcoholic and could not manage our own lives.

The first requirement is that we be convinced that any life run on self-will can hardly be a success

On that basis we are almost always in collision with something or somebody, even though our motives are good. (the basis of self-will - and taken deeper, anytime I see that I'm at odds with someone, aka in collision with them, do I see that the involvement of my self-will is at the core?)

(Am I) like an actor who wants to run the whole show; is forever trying to arrange the lights, the ballet, the scenery and the rest of the players in his own way

(have I become) angry, indignant, self-pitying

Is he (am I) not a victim of the delusion that he (I) can wrest satisfaction and happiness out of this world if he(I) only manages well?

Is self-centered thinking (me thinking about what's best for me) once again at the root of my problems?

So our troubles, we think, are basically of our own making. They arise out of ourselves, and the alcoholic is an extreme example of self-will run riot, though he usually doesn’t think so. -- Are my trouble of my own making? Could they possible rise out of my self-centered thinking? Haven't I thought mostly of myself, my desires, my dreams and goals for most of my life? Has that proven to be a successful game plan? Is it possible that, even now, I'm an extreme example of self will run riot? --well I don't think so. Oh, "though he usually doesn't think so....".

And if this power I've created, whom I've probably chosen is everything in the 2nd step proposition really is the director of my life.... have I taken today's troubles to this Power? Have I prayed/meditated upon it? Have I listened for some direction from this Power?

Some stuff to consider.

snitch

Thanks Dave and Sugarbear ❤❤

snitch

Thanks Daytrader. You know how much I love your posts and reading about your experience in the programme.

You have definitely given me some things to consider!!

I think alot of this boils down to not having the right sponsor for me. It's so hard to know if I don't think she is right because I am running on self will or if it is the truth. When we read the bit about the sex inventory in the BB, she said she would send me a template of how to fill my inventory in which she did and it said quite clearly says 'list names of people you have harmed". Which is what I did. At no point did she tell me to write down every person I have been intimate with. So I did as she said and then when I told her I had done it she said that wasn't right. She hasnt even seen my inventory. So I guess I have been in alot of confusion. Also she keeps saying she has to check with HER sponsor. And then her sponsor comes back and tells her what to do and I feel a bit uncomfortable because her sponsor doesnt know me and yet I feel the directions are coming from her instead of my own sponsor. My sponsor has been sober 6 years but she did her steps 5/6 years ago and I am only her 3rd sponsee and she hasn't actually taken anyone all the way through to the end of the steps, in fact I am the person who has gotten the furthest and in my humble opinion it sometimes appears to me she struggles with her knowledge of the steps and her directions to me are a bit jumbled. And I say this with the greatest of respect to her because she has helped me alot and given me her time and also she isnt a saint , she is human and is just another alcoholic like me.

The only thing I DO know for sure is I never want to go back to where I was before and I never want to drink again so therefore I MUST be willing to go to any lengths. And I am. But at this point in time I feel it will be with another sponsor.

I am praying for guidance around this and am going to take some action... go to lots of different meetings instead of sticking to the same ones and listen to different women to see if there is somewhere out there that has what I want.

Thanks again DT and everyone else who took time to reply to me.

🙏❤🙏❤

Ken33xx

Your ex-sponsor might well be working with a "my way or the highway" kind of member. Their interruption of the AA program is correct and anyone who disagrees is wrong.

Not much different than the arguments encountered in a Bible study group.

You should hear my mother and sister go at it.

Ken33xx

interpretation

Gottalife

Hi Snitch, I see a lot of opinion and add-ons to the AA program in some of the replies above. I think there are times when you have to trust your own judgement. No where in the Big Book does it suggest you hand your life over to the infallible sponsor or hierarchy of sponsorship. It is delusional to think that sponsors have all the answers or that they are always a good choice.

My suggestion to folks who wish to evaluate their sponsor's advice and suggestions is to get to know the book very well so you can filter everything through that and determine which is AA and which is opinion. In your posts I see you doing just that. Follow the clear cut directions is what I would suggest.

I could not have complied with your sponsor's request to name names. I didn't know them to start with. My sponsor had a saying as regards this part of the program "We confuse honesty with accuracy". It just was not possible to be that accurate.

My feeling is you are proposing an honest approach along the lines of the directions in the book. I cannot think of a better way to go. I think your approach is also supported in the early part of chapter six wheere it talks about those memories and events that we hope will never see the light of day. That is what kept me awake at night and what might have led me back to drink. The current stuff, that which is bothering me, that was the stuff that needed to be cleaned out in step five. A good amount of that was not so much harm to others as a total betrayal of my own values. I did things that were completely wrong for me to be doing, but may well be quite acceptable to someone else.

Snitch, it is entirely possible that you have good judgement in this matter. Despite popular belief, you are not always going to be wrong. God sometimes does not use a middleman to get His message through.

August252015

As usual, I agree w Mike here.

As to your sponsor, snitch - I did a searching and spiritual inventory of changing sponsors at 4 and 5. My intuition just didn't trust doing them with her- but I wanted to make sure I wasn't just looking for someone "easier" to do them with. Like Mike closed with - we are able to make good decisions though for me I struggled with confidence to do that early on in my 4th month of sobriety when I was at those steps.

I usually describe myself as a spirit of the law more than a letter of the law person. As far as AA goes, I had to learn and apply the "letter" (ie steps and principles) first - then as I have grown in sobriety, applied them with guidance for the type of sober life (yes, textbook happy joyous and free) means to me.

Basically- that whole "look for those who have what I want" applies often - and I'd say it's something to look at when you see how your sponsor lives. Many people are rigid in how they sponsor and have immovable dictates for sponsees. I'm not loosey goosey, rather firm on the heart of each step as I live them.

Ken33xx

That's it right there.

I saw this first hand. I was going through a very rough patch ten years into sobriety and thinking of asking a particular member to be my new sponsor. He had years of sobriety, said the right things during meeting and appear to incorporated the principles of the program in his life. I really thought the guy had it together.

Then he showed up one day where I worked. I thought great. However as time went by he began to alienate his co-workers. He may have been a respected member of AA whose opinion was valued and catered to but at work he was the new guy.

Things got weird within six months. He often spoke to others in the office with the same authority as he did those inside the rooms of AA. And people didn't like it.

So he turned to me expecting me to act as a buffer but I didn't have time. My plate was full and I was quite busy.

Then he got upset making a few cutting remarks in an AA meeting about "rude members." So, I switched meetings.

Seven years later I left the job and the last time I saw the man he was a shell of his old self.

snitch

Thanks August and Ken for sharing your thoughts and experiences.

I am away with work at the moment and have been doing alot of reflecting and praying. I have to say I do feel a sense of freedom and I feel that whilst my (ex) sponsor helped me immensely in the 12 months plus she sponsored me for which I will always be eternally grateful, she is not right for me anymore. I will see her Thursday at our regular meeting and I want to see her and thank her face to face for the time she gave up to help me. By her own admission she doesn't feel very joyous, happy and free at the moment due to things going on in her life at the moment.

Anyway I really appreciate everyone who took the time to respond to me. It really helps to share this stuff and I didnt feel I could share it in my usual meetings as I don't want others who know her to know this as it is quite personal. Which is why I just adore Sober Recovery.!!

I will keep you updated on my future progress but just for today I am feeling very peaceful and serene with absolutely zero desire to drink.

🙏❤🙏❤

AAPJ

I think asking for the names of every person you slept with to be unnecessary and frankly out of line. Not every potential sponsor is going to have a great spiritual program. Based on what I have seen I think some sponsors just like the concept of power/control. They want to be the Boss. They have lots of sponsees. That was not for me. I found a man with 10+ years in the program who held service positions but had no other current sponsees. He's terrific. He also has… a job... and a family. It took a while.

I always liked what AA speaker Sandy Beach said about sponsorship.

"Sponsorship: The half blind leading the blind"

sugarbear1

Talk it out with your sponsor.

I see this step as more of a relationship inventory than a sex inventory, unless others were harmed, or unless I see my behavior in there and maybe I'm seeking approval through opposite-sex relationships...

AW2486

Sex inventory is all about motives. that is where the harm is done.
I listed all of mine. 3-4 pages worth. Patterns of my motives were clear.
If you have a bunch that happened the same way and can't remember that much about it.. I would tell you to keep it simple and list them as one.

August252015

How's it going snitch? Have you made and done the decision to change sponsors?

I appreciate this thread even more as I just re-read it - I have had 3 sponsors and currently do not. The short version is that my second was a great fit and amazing and she was my sponsor for a bit over 2 yrs til this past winter (sort of) - and it boiled to how VERY different our programs had become. She has a lot of what I very much DON'T want right now.

My third sponsor is such an awesome person who I had known but not closely- just viewed her very much as someone who lives with the courage, compassion, sense of humor, acceptance, so on, that I seek. She has significant physical problems that fairly quickly put us in a place of great friendship, from the few months we were official. She is the one I rely on with boundaries we talked about, if you will, now.

It's a process and I do not want to be sponsor-less for long; dealing with a back injury that will keep me at home for pretty much all of Sep, it will be a bit before I even go to a meeting (ugh). I will get a sponsor as soon as I can and I am doing program work in different ways ( ex- one or more recovery friends coming to see me at home).

My reason for sharing this in a bit of length is because while the sponsor relationship is a critical one, I have experienced a path of my own, I have not served as a sponsor in full until working with someone til the 3rd step and we parted ways...and it's rigorous honesty, spiritual guidance and honestly? Putting my program first, and what it needs, in either direction.

I am glad you are sharing this very important aspect of the program.

snitch

Thank you for this post August.

At the moment I am currently without a sponsor and I am doing good. I am praying to my HP, taking inventory, pausing when agitated, being kind and tolerant and seeking space from individuals if I need to. I have been going to eetings and I have a good network of AA friends I am in contact with.

I haven't seen my ex sponsor but we are going to meet up soon for a coffee and chat. I feel I have made the right decision though. I feel she was exactly what I needed in my early days but not now. She definitely doesn't have what I want except she is not drinking but even by her own admission she is struggling with relationships and eating and well, life basically.

I would like to find another sponsor but I am going to go to a few different meetings especially thr womens only meeting that is twice weekly in my City. I would prefer someone who is not in my Home Group.

Thanks for asking. I will keep you updated

❤🙏❤🙏

August252015

In my opinion, snitch, you are doing very well in handling and seeking guidance from your support people and HP. Proud of you.

I just shared this discussion with my husband, who is meeting with his sponsor today to finish 9-12. He and I are very much in sync with how I have told y'all my experience (strength and hope too ) and - we are a team ourselves. We are diligent - and seek help from our pastoral counselor every few months, along with sponsors and program friends - in protecting our lovely marriage, and living our "ideal" every day. I am so grateful to have experienced the spectrum of this passel of life and relationship stuff as my path has brought me the gift I have today.

Appreciate you all!