steveengland

Hello all. I'm Steve.

Alcohol addiction is my mind and bodies idea of fun.....!?

Found this forum after a search for the best rated ones and liked the sound of it. I am sure I will pick up some great stuff going around and in time hopefully be able to help others myself.
I have only been around the rooms for about seven months, during which I went to a 12 step rehab for 9 weeks and am now just over 4 months clean.
I joined this forum as I have a question. I am unsure where to post this as new but I see that new members should post there questions here?

My question is:
Do you think it is safe to postpone my 4th and 5th steps as I have recently come off antidepressants (with full doctors guidance.)
My sponsor has said that we will probably not look at it until the new year. I made the 3rd step decision two months ago now and during that time and a bit before, I was reducing my medication and now free from citalopram for 9 days .

The thing that is worrying me is that the book says after step 3 we should launch into a vigorous coarse of action on step 4.

I have mentioned this to him, that I am a bit concerned, and he reckoned that as antidepressants were not mentioned in the book it could and would be better to wait a while until I can feel the step better. I have mentioned to him in the past that I lack feeling. Possibly due to the meds?

Hoping for some reassurance really that this all sounds ok given my circumstances.
As you can probably tell, I fear a possible state of relapse if I am not moving forward with the program. As I have heard "If you are not moving forward, you are regressing!" I believe that statement!

Thanks for reading and hope you can help, Steve

paulokes

Steve welcome.

All I would say is follow your gut. As you rightly said the instructions in the book are "immediately"...maybe with good reason.

From experience I would say I moved through the steps quote quickly, without a delay, but took a few months to complete my 4th because that felt right for me.
I know some that take a year or two to move through the steps and that works for them.

The onus is with you...if you are not completely ready then stay open minded and willing, if you are don't delay...its your decision and no one else's responsibility

But following directions is useful...has worked for so many that have gone before you.

Hope you get some good guidance around this

P

Gottalife

This is a really good question and I can understand how this must be a very difficult situation for you. I don't want to comment on the meds other than to say well done. If they are now unnecessary then, in my experience your chances of a full recovery have just got so much better.

The AA program would generally suggest that the medication is an outside issue for you and your doctor to deal with. AA's sole concern is with alcoholism, and I think in that regard you are right on the money about step 4. Delay on the steps only seems to delay recovery, provided you feel ready to proceed. ...
" If you have decided you want what we have and are willing to go to any lengths to get it, then you are ready to take certain steps" It is up to you to decide when you are ready, and the number one rule of sponsorship is never to get between the newcomer and step 12.

My experience was that I carried a burden of misery, guilt, and shame, bad memories that kept me awake, strange behaviour that kept me in conflict with my fellows. I had a number of issues troubling me, about which I was not really aware. I was my own worst enemy, but I needed to take steps 4 and 5 to both understand that and get some relief from it. This baggage was blocking me from the sun light of the spirit.

Pre-steps 4 & 5, I had regular spells of great anxiety and fear, seemingly coming out of nowhere. Probably appeared a bit like depression. I couldn't make any real progress, and I would end up feeling so bad that drinking looked attractive. This baggage was too much for me to carry and I could see eventually I would fall.

Something is happeing with you, and it seems similar to my experience. I went from point blank refusing to do those steps, to feeling a definite need to get them done, some how realising that I would not recover any other way.

Timing is the thing in question. How much time do you have to get this done, before the obsession comes back. No one, not even your sponsor, knows the answer to that. Appendicitus is a good analogy. It is a readily diagnosable disease, with a very quick cure through surgery. If it is left untreated, eventually the appendix will burst, resulting in serious complications, possibly death. Nobody knows how long it will be before this happens. When a patient is diagnosed with this condition, you would be unlikely to see the doctor counselling delay.

If you were a member of my group, I might offer to help you with your fourth, or I might suggest you change sponsors to one who will not hold you back. I don't know your sponsor, he could be a fine fellow who has taken all the steps and has a good reason for what he is suggesting. On the otherhand, sponsors often put of fourth's when that have never done one themselves and therefore don't know how to help you.

The main thing is that it is for you to decide when you are ready, and if your sponsor won't help, you would be wise to find another way.
Parkinson's Law:" Delay is the deadliest form of denial."

awuh1

My question is:
Do you think it is safe to postpone my 4th and 5th steps as I have recently come off antidepressants (with full doctors guidance.)"

I agree 100% with your sponsor!!!! Your sponsor is right. There was no such thing as an antidepressant in 1939. It think very experienced sponsors are more likely to have seen a certain degree of depression with some people at this point in the steps. It's something to be aware of, and people with a history of depression should be cautious.

I got depressed after my 4th and 5th. It does not happen to everyone. In fact many, if not most people say these steps provide a wonderful release, but that was not the case for me. My advice is to wait, make sure you are stable in the period following your medication and then go forward with a bit of caution.

In any event be thorough.

All the best to you.

tomsteve

Next we launched out on a course of vigorous action, the first step of which is a personal housecleaning, which many of us had never attempted. Though our decision was a vital and crucial step, it could have little permanent effect unless at once followed by a strenuous effort to face, and to be rid of, the things in ourselves which had been blocking us.

the feeling that my HP had entered my life happened as i worked the steps.

fear of drinking again had me work the steps. i wanted the tenth step promises.

good job on 4 months!

Redmayne

The first observation I make is that the 12 Steps are a suggested program of recovery, they are not written in 'tablets of stone'...

Hence the three mottos on p.135 of the BB (4th Ed.)

First things first,

Live and Let Live,

Easy does it.

Taking those into account you can then prioritise them according to your circumstances...

Which doesn't mean you shouldn't do them but simply approach them using common sense and logic or to use a Buddhist saying,'Anything that contradicts logic and experience should be abandoned' until the most appropriate, using the guidance offered in the BB presents itself...so it doesn't disturb your recovery and does the most good for all involved...

steveengland

Thanks for the replies. You have put my mind at ease and I am now fully willing to wait until I know I am stable in my mind. Or as stable as I can be! Hehe.
First things first, thanks for that. As I started this reduction before step 4, I now agree with the pause in action. Get this stage complete before I look at step 4 in detail.
My sponsor has been around for 14 years now and has helped many through and I do trust he knows what is right for me at this time, but reassuring to hear some other thoughts from others that can see why he hasprobably chosen to suggest this.
Thanks again and loving this forum.

stevieg46

Hi Steve.

I am also Stevie ( Scotland ) , you cannot ''really '' give someone advice though well meaning on how to play golf ? if you have never experienced playing golf .

Very very briefly I was on very heavy medication for Bi -Polar for 8 years including 200 mgs citalopram . I am completely off all medication for 13 months or so .

I posted in the Health and Fitness Nutrition forum , in more detail, thread is the ''Power of a Positive Mind '' I am near 10 yrs sober n clean now .

You also have had some excellent suggestions so far , take care .

Regards .
Stevie .

CaiHong

Hi Stevie,
No advice, just to say welcome and good on you.
Caihong

Gottalife

Hi Stevie,

you got a couple of replies which seem to contradict each other. The first was from Tomsteve quoting the Big Book directions for the steps in which it said the third step decision would have little lasting effect unless "at once" followed by a strenuous effort to get rid of the things which had been blocking us - step 4. or words to that effect.

The other from Redmayne quoted page 135, easy does it etc which seems to be in conflict with the earlier statement. The contradiction occurs because the two quotes are from two differnt parts of the book, dealing with different things. The first was from the directions for taking the steps in order to recover from alcoholism on a spiritual basis (When we straighten out spiritually, we straighten out physically and mentally).

The second was from "The Family Afterwards" and is about relations with the family. As almost anyone knows, the family are often very slow to come around (some of my family never have) and the first few months, even years can be very trying. It suggests that both the family and the alcoholic put first things (sobriety) first as without that things will be much worse. Easy does it with the family, don't expect them to change quickly and likewise the family should not be too pushy with the alcoholic, for the same reason. And live and let live, both family and alcoholic will benfit by cutting the other some slack and allow then to be themselves Forgivenss and tolerance. These are quite a different thing to the steps the alcoholic must take in order to recover.