Seeking advice
Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: northern michigan. not the U.P.
Posts: 15,281
Originally Posted by dripdry 
Thank you,
AA IS my sponsor's whole life, so I think that is why she sees it that way. When she goes on a trip she comes back and talks about all the AA meetings she went to and the great AA people she met. Most of her trips are to AA conventions or meet ups. She only dates and marries AA men
She stresses that recovery has to be the most important priority in my life. She thinks that by doing this trip I am trying to put the church first...and she quoted the BB on how some people drift out the door on a cloud of religion. Something like that.
I really don't feel like that is what I am doing. I haven't done anything like this since I got sober, but there has to be a first time, right? There will be NO drinking on this trip, so that is not an issue.
AA IS my sponsor's whole life, so I think that is why she sees it that way. When she goes on a trip she comes back and talks about all the AA meetings she went to and the great AA people she met. Most of her trips are to AA conventions or meet ups. She only dates and marries AA men
She stresses that recovery has to be the most important priority in my life. She thinks that by doing this trip I am trying to put the church first...and she quoted the BB on how some people drift out the door on a cloud of religion. Something like that.
I really don't feel like that is what I am doing. I haven't done anything like this since I got sober, but there has to be a first time, right? There will be NO drinking on this trip, so that is not an issue.
ask to be shown where in the BB that meetings are a part of the program. I haven't found it yet.
going to meetings and not drinking don't treat alcoholism, unlesas I have a different BB than others.meetings are a great thing, but theres no way I can spend my time in meetings, at AA conventions, and AA events and consider myself a useful,productive member of society. it would be a cop out and a way to rationalize facing life on lifes terms.
the program of AA is a way of life, not my life.
ummm...only dates and marries AA men. ummmm... what???? is she married and dating at the same time? keeps getting divorced??? what????
some people make meetings, conventions and other AA events their life. however, the program teaches us how to become productive members of society.
Alcoholics who have derided religious people will be helped by such contacts. Being possessed of a spiritual experience, the alcoholic will find he has much in common with these people, though he may differ with them on many matters. If he does not argue about religion, he will make new friends and is sure to find new avenues of usefulness and pleasure.
over the last year or 2, i have met many,many people in this small town that got sober with AA and no longer go to meetings. they have been sober( in the of sound mind" sense. making AA my whole life wouldn't be " of sound mind" imo) and i have met them at church and doing service for the community.
in all honesty, it reads like yer sponsor is a wee bit controlling.
i say go for it and have a great time!!
heres what the BB says gets us in trouble:
It is easy to let up on the spiritual program of action and rest on our laurels. We are headed for trouble if we do, for alcohol is a subtle foe. We are not cured of alcoholism. What we really have is a daily reprieve contingent on the maintenance of our spiritual condition. Every day is a day when we must carry the vision of God's will into all of our activities. "How can I best serve Thee - Thy will (not mine) be done." These are thoughts which must go with us constantly. We can exercise our will power along this line all we wish. It is the proper use of the will.
stay in fit spiritual condition and have a great time doing Gods work.
it seems to me it would be wise to do a BB study with your sponsor. don't be afraid to say,"where does it say that in the BB?"
yer not putting the church 1st. yer putting Gods will 1st. good on ya!!
Member
Join Date: May 2013
Location: northern virginia
Posts: 535
i'm so happy for you that you decided to go! it truly sounds like this is a wonderful opportunity for you...
and yeah, my sponsor is amazing! glad i could share some of her no-nonsense, real-life wisdom!
EM
and yeah, my sponsor is amazing! glad i could share some of her no-nonsense, real-life wisdom!
EM
Member
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Concord, CA
Posts: 28
I would never tell a sponsee to do anything, nor would I keep a sponsor to told me to or not do anything: up to and including "not taking a drink". The book doesn't give any direction on sponsorship certainly not in the first 164 pages (where the word sponsor isn't even mentioned) or even in the stories or appendices. The sponsor is someone who tries to help me stay sober and does that on a continuing basis.
I would strongly recommend that both you and your sponsor read the AA pamphlet Questions and Answers about Sponsorship. It surprised me to no end on all that it says about sponsorship! I fully expected it to tell me all the BS about sponsorship that I often hear and see in the meetings: e.g., along the lines of a sponsor gives directions, sponsees follow. Or the only responsibility of a sponsor is to take the sponsee "through the book" (whatever that means) and to work the steps "by the book".
Read the pamphlet. It's AA approved -- a fn miracle! I think there are no more than 3-5 lines in it about the Steps and those lines essentially state that the sponsor shares with the sponsee what the steps have come to mean for them. Not to "teach" them or "work" them.
I have been extremely lucky in terms of my own sponsors, esp. My first one, Dr Earke who got sober 6/15/53, two days before I was born and whose story has been on the book since the second edition. Had his sponsor told him not to go on this retreat or even infer (like yours seemed to do), Earle would have told him/her to F off. And then done what he thought best.
You've learned an important lesson about recovery and about sponsorship. I am not suggesting that you end your relationship with your sponsor -- I have no opinion about that. But I do encourage you to be an adult in that relationship, not a child. You'll never grow otherwise!
Take care! And responsibility!
Mike L.
I would strongly recommend that both you and your sponsor read the AA pamphlet Questions and Answers about Sponsorship. It surprised me to no end on all that it says about sponsorship! I fully expected it to tell me all the BS about sponsorship that I often hear and see in the meetings: e.g., along the lines of a sponsor gives directions, sponsees follow. Or the only responsibility of a sponsor is to take the sponsee "through the book" (whatever that means) and to work the steps "by the book".
Read the pamphlet. It's AA approved -- a fn miracle! I think there are no more than 3-5 lines in it about the Steps and those lines essentially state that the sponsor shares with the sponsee what the steps have come to mean for them. Not to "teach" them or "work" them.
I have been extremely lucky in terms of my own sponsors, esp. My first one, Dr Earke who got sober 6/15/53, two days before I was born and whose story has been on the book since the second edition. Had his sponsor told him not to go on this retreat or even infer (like yours seemed to do), Earle would have told him/her to F off. And then done what he thought best.
You've learned an important lesson about recovery and about sponsorship. I am not suggesting that you end your relationship with your sponsor -- I have no opinion about that. But I do encourage you to be an adult in that relationship, not a child. You'll never grow otherwise!
Take care! And responsibility!
Mike L.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 24
I hit up a meeting when I went on vacation. I also have a friend that went to France and hit up some meetings. You could try that just to get a different experience as well? I think that is a great decision to go on the trip though
Member
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Ohio
Posts: 3,785
I am glad you decided to go!
I think for some, making AA their life is the only way they can stay sober. There was a meeting I went to a while back and he said that he was sober 8 years and then relapsed. He was then sober 12 years and relapsed. He said from now on he was making AA his life.
I think, as others do, there should be a healthy balance but for some, balance is dangerous territory so they always keep AA on the heavy side of the scale.
That is what they know and what keeps them sober. There is nothing wrong with that but I think they also have to see that for others balance is okay and in fact that balance may be the very thing that keeps others sober.
This also holds true for the person that places their recovery on the light side of the scale and life and other situations are on the heavy side. That too, can be very dangerous.
We all have our own scales and we need to discover what keeps us balanced. I found if I take the time, talk to my sponsor and others in the program and honestly seek the answer I will get the guidance I need.
I hope you have a nice time and please fill us in on how it went
I think for some, making AA their life is the only way they can stay sober. There was a meeting I went to a while back and he said that he was sober 8 years and then relapsed. He was then sober 12 years and relapsed. He said from now on he was making AA his life.
I think, as others do, there should be a healthy balance but for some, balance is dangerous territory so they always keep AA on the heavy side of the scale.
That is what they know and what keeps them sober. There is nothing wrong with that but I think they also have to see that for others balance is okay and in fact that balance may be the very thing that keeps others sober.
This also holds true for the person that places their recovery on the light side of the scale and life and other situations are on the heavy side. That too, can be very dangerous.
We all have our own scales and we need to discover what keeps us balanced. I found if I take the time, talk to my sponsor and others in the program and honestly seek the answer I will get the guidance I need.
I hope you have a nice time and please fill us in on how it went
Member
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 4,682
If you can get the people to stand in for you it sounds like you would like to go on this 2 week thing, also sounds like it would be fun.
I would go on the trip, the whole point of working the steps and recovering from alcoholism is to live a new life full of choices and adventure!
I would go on the trip, the whole point of working the steps and recovering from alcoholism is to live a new life full of choices and adventure!
Better when never is never
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Wisconsin near Twin Cities
Posts: 1,745
"None of us makes a sole vocation of this work, nor do we think its effectiveness would be increased if we did."
I always heard it was good to rotate out of service positions to give others a chance to serve. I am sober so that I can live the life I was denying myself while drinking.
I always heard it was good to rotate out of service positions to give others a chance to serve. I am sober so that I can live the life I was denying myself while drinking.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 42
Thank you everyone!
I am so grateful for all the posts here.
I spoke to my sponsor at this morning's meeting. She said she is glad I made a decision and hopes the trip is everything I want it to be.
We went for coffee after the meeting with some other people and she brought the trip up and told them I was going and suggested I tell they about it. Everyone was very excited for me, and it felt great to have real life AA support!
Now I will try to respond to a few things that were brought up here.
When I first got my sponsor she was in the process of divorcing a man she met and married in AA. And she has only dated AA men since and has said that she only ever will, because she feels it is critical to have a partner who understand both alcoholism and AA recovery.
My sponsor is a very social woman and likes to go to parties and group activities. She feels that if she participates in these with non AA people alcohol will always be involved, so she is very active in AA and the various alcohol free activities available.
I only chair one AA meeting a week, though I do unlock, make coffee and lock up for 3 because I am a keyholder for the church building and they don't allow non members to have keys. I nearly always attend those meetings anyway, so it is not a hardship for me to do that.
My sponsor does not try to run my life outright, but she does express disapproval of some things. She often behaves suspicious of my church activity. She has said I hide there. Sometimes I feel Pastor is more of a sponsor than she is, I have not said that to her but I think she feels it and is jealous. He is not AA but has been a pastor for many many years and has helped many people with addiction issues and he is very balanced and calm. He was a big force in getting me involved in AA.
I was not a church goer when I first got sober. I got sober after I was involved in a car accident. The man driving was drunk. He was killed and I was severely injured. The pastor of my mother's church would come to visit me and he suggested I go to AA when I got out of the hospital. The hospital chaplain got me going to meetings when I was still in the hospital. They were such a powerful and kind help to me that I began to attend church. The entire church community was so supportive to me and my mother when I was hospitalized. I never felt so much love.
I think I understand what my sponsor is thinking. That if I go away for two weeks with Pastor and church members, I will bond so much with them that I will feel I dont' need AA. She has always felt there is competition between church and AA with me.
I am going to look at that AA pamphlet on sponsorship. I know I read it long ago, at the very start, but I doubt I have looked at it since then. My sponsor would freak if I asked her to show me anything in the Big Book, she is not a Big Book quoter at all. She would think I was getting very uppity on her!
There is a woman I've admired a long time in the program that I have thought of asking to be my sponsor. We've gone for coffee a few times and I like her quiet strength. She is closer to my age as well, and maybe that is part of why I feel comfortable with her.
My sponsor is several years younger than me. She did a very good job of leading me through the steps, but when it comes to discussing life issues I do think the age difference sometimes gets in the way.
I am so grateful for all the posts here.
I spoke to my sponsor at this morning's meeting. She said she is glad I made a decision and hopes the trip is everything I want it to be.
We went for coffee after the meeting with some other people and she brought the trip up and told them I was going and suggested I tell they about it. Everyone was very excited for me, and it felt great to have real life AA support!
Now I will try to respond to a few things that were brought up here.
When I first got my sponsor she was in the process of divorcing a man she met and married in AA. And she has only dated AA men since and has said that she only ever will, because she feels it is critical to have a partner who understand both alcoholism and AA recovery.
My sponsor is a very social woman and likes to go to parties and group activities. She feels that if she participates in these with non AA people alcohol will always be involved, so she is very active in AA and the various alcohol free activities available.
I only chair one AA meeting a week, though I do unlock, make coffee and lock up for 3 because I am a keyholder for the church building and they don't allow non members to have keys. I nearly always attend those meetings anyway, so it is not a hardship for me to do that.
My sponsor does not try to run my life outright, but she does express disapproval of some things. She often behaves suspicious of my church activity. She has said I hide there. Sometimes I feel Pastor is more of a sponsor than she is, I have not said that to her but I think she feels it and is jealous. He is not AA but has been a pastor for many many years and has helped many people with addiction issues and he is very balanced and calm. He was a big force in getting me involved in AA.
I was not a church goer when I first got sober. I got sober after I was involved in a car accident. The man driving was drunk. He was killed and I was severely injured. The pastor of my mother's church would come to visit me and he suggested I go to AA when I got out of the hospital. The hospital chaplain got me going to meetings when I was still in the hospital. They were such a powerful and kind help to me that I began to attend church. The entire church community was so supportive to me and my mother when I was hospitalized. I never felt so much love.
I think I understand what my sponsor is thinking. That if I go away for two weeks with Pastor and church members, I will bond so much with them that I will feel I dont' need AA. She has always felt there is competition between church and AA with me.
I am going to look at that AA pamphlet on sponsorship. I know I read it long ago, at the very start, but I doubt I have looked at it since then. My sponsor would freak if I asked her to show me anything in the Big Book, she is not a Big Book quoter at all. She would think I was getting very uppity on her!
There is a woman I've admired a long time in the program that I have thought of asking to be my sponsor. We've gone for coffee a few times and I like her quiet strength. She is closer to my age as well, and maybe that is part of why I feel comfortable with her.
My sponsor is several years younger than me. She did a very good job of leading me through the steps, but when it comes to discussing life issues I do think the age difference sometimes gets in the way.
Om, Aum, Ohm...
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Punxsutawney/Pittsburgh
Posts: 4,797
Seems your decision is made, but the whole thread brought to my mind this passage:
"When we retire at night, we constructively review our day..... Were we thinking of ourselves most of the time? Or were we thinking of what we could do for others, of what we could pack into the stream of life? But we must be careful not to drift into worry, remorse or morbid reflection, for that would diminish our usefulness to others."
Alcoholics Anonymous, First Edition.
Someone a page ago suggested that turning away these opportunities to be useful to others for the reasons your sponsor stated sound like creating and cultivating fear. I know today, I can go anywhere my HP leads me, including places that serve alcohol if I have good reason to be there, whether that reason be to help someone honor a special day, or to provide help and support (which means I don't automatically skip a wedding or other gathering because I may be exposed to alcohol).
I have been blessed with a full life, both inside and outside the rooms of AA, and that is a direct result of my HP's guidance and my commitment to the Twelve Steps. Fellowship, which includes meetings -- that's third on the list. Important, and I wouldn't want to be without it, but I can trust God to carry me through a brief separation so long as I'm doing what I need to do every day to keep fit spiritually.
Peace & Love,
Sugah
"When we retire at night, we constructively review our day..... Were we thinking of ourselves most of the time? Or were we thinking of what we could do for others, of what we could pack into the stream of life? But we must be careful not to drift into worry, remorse or morbid reflection, for that would diminish our usefulness to others."
Alcoholics Anonymous, First Edition.
Someone a page ago suggested that turning away these opportunities to be useful to others for the reasons your sponsor stated sound like creating and cultivating fear. I know today, I can go anywhere my HP leads me, including places that serve alcohol if I have good reason to be there, whether that reason be to help someone honor a special day, or to provide help and support (which means I don't automatically skip a wedding or other gathering because I may be exposed to alcohol).
I have been blessed with a full life, both inside and outside the rooms of AA, and that is a direct result of my HP's guidance and my commitment to the Twelve Steps. Fellowship, which includes meetings -- that's third on the list. Important, and I wouldn't want to be without it, but I can trust God to carry me through a brief separation so long as I'm doing what I need to do every day to keep fit spiritually.
Peace & Love,
Sugah
Member
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Concord, CA
Posts: 28
"There is a woman I've admired a long time in the program that I have thought of asking to be my sponsor. We've gone for coffee a few times and I like her quiet strength. She is closer to my age as well, and maybe that is part of why I feel comfortable with her."
You can change sponsors at any time. You can have multiple sponsors. You can have a sponsor without calling them Sponsor (I have good friends with 20+ years sober who call their sponsor "big brother"). Sounds like you may want to talk to this friend about sponsorship and what it means to her and what you're looking for in terms of sponsorship...
Take care!
Mike L
You can change sponsors at any time. You can have multiple sponsors. You can have a sponsor without calling them Sponsor (I have good friends with 20+ years sober who call their sponsor "big brother"). Sounds like you may want to talk to this friend about sponsorship and what it means to her and what you're looking for in terms of sponsorship...
Take care!
Mike L
Guest
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: atlanta ga
Posts: 69
your pastor sounds wonderful
your sponsor is just another drunk like the rest of us
I do not put sponsors up on a pedestal
let her have her own problems about you going to church after all it IS her problem
and I discuss the big book with folks I work with gosh it is our basic text after all
hiding in church?? good grief
you know when I sponsor someone I share with them my experience and I let them develop their own experience
I am not a baby sitter nor do I want someone to depend on me they are not my responsibility I am my responsibility
now I will be honest with them I will tell them what I think I don't sugar coat it
but they have to decide what they want to do
the only time I get really flustered with some one is when they want to fight the whole program and not follow any sort of directions from the big book hell I am a human after all
I used to have a sponsor several years ago at the time she had been sober 45 years the 4th guy in AA was her one time sponsor she knew Dr Bob fairly well and let me tell you I was scared to death of her!
where folks get the idea that the early drunks in AA were super detached and sugary sweet has never met this gal LOL
she could give a look that would melt glass and let me tell you she did not mince words
she told me stories that curled my hair LOL
and she did not mind saying that if I wanted what she had then I will do what she did
I got to really love her and had a lot of respect for her
none of us are all alike and that is the beauty of AA
what works for one might not work for another
shoot the old timers used to fight a lot and at one time they questioned Bill Wilson if he had ever worked the steps!
we are all one drink away from a drunk
I like the old saying is I am one drink and 12 steps from a drunk
I have seen plenty of folks with 20 and one guy with over 30 years drink again
so I don't get all excited about long term sobriety
today I know I have been restored to sanity I have had a spiritual awaking and a personality change but I am not cured
I still have alcoholism
your sponsor is just another drunk like the rest of us
I do not put sponsors up on a pedestal
let her have her own problems about you going to church after all it IS her problem
and I discuss the big book with folks I work with gosh it is our basic text after all
hiding in church?? good grief
you know when I sponsor someone I share with them my experience and I let them develop their own experience
I am not a baby sitter nor do I want someone to depend on me they are not my responsibility I am my responsibility
now I will be honest with them I will tell them what I think I don't sugar coat it
but they have to decide what they want to do
the only time I get really flustered with some one is when they want to fight the whole program and not follow any sort of directions from the big book hell I am a human after all
I used to have a sponsor several years ago at the time she had been sober 45 years the 4th guy in AA was her one time sponsor she knew Dr Bob fairly well and let me tell you I was scared to death of her!
where folks get the idea that the early drunks in AA were super detached and sugary sweet has never met this gal LOL
she could give a look that would melt glass and let me tell you she did not mince words
she told me stories that curled my hair LOL
and she did not mind saying that if I wanted what she had then I will do what she did
I got to really love her and had a lot of respect for her
none of us are all alike and that is the beauty of AA
what works for one might not work for another
shoot the old timers used to fight a lot and at one time they questioned Bill Wilson if he had ever worked the steps!
we are all one drink away from a drunk
I like the old saying is I am one drink and 12 steps from a drunk
I have seen plenty of folks with 20 and one guy with over 30 years drink again
so I don't get all excited about long term sobriety
today I know I have been restored to sanity I have had a spiritual awaking and a personality change but I am not cured
I still have alcoholism
Member
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Lakeside, Ca
Posts: 10,208
(((usually))) less drama and baggage
Originally Posted by dripdry
And she has only dated AA men since and has said that she only ever will, because she feels it is critical to have a partner who understand both alcoholism and AA recovery.
but none of us are perfect
and her only dating AA men is truly a silly thing
my wife is a normie
and I have been around AA for many years
there is (((usually))) less drama and baggage with a normie
one only has to witness 10 or 20 AA romances to see what I'm saying
Mountainman
Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: northern michigan. not the U.P.
Posts: 15,281
"She has said I hide there."
this is what makes me wonder:
someone that makes AA their whole life; meetings, conventions, meet ups, and only marries and dates men in recovery tellin someone they are hiding in church.
this is what makes me wonder:
someone that makes AA their whole life; meetings, conventions, meet ups, and only marries and dates men in recovery tellin someone they are hiding in church.
Guest
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: atlanta ga
Posts: 69
I heard a great speaker years ago describing his marriage
" the rocks in her head fit the holes in mine"
I lived with a guy in AA several years ago we were dubbed the "yo-yo" couple
and they nailed us!!
I lost track of how many times we broke up and got back together! we finally had the bright idea to get married
oh yea, that helped LOL
for 5 years we were what I call "stark raving sober"
in other words sick as dogs
no offence to dogs
it was my untreated co dependency that finally helped me take myself out of AA and finally drunk after 13 years
Al anon saved my life as much as AA
I am relationship free by choice ever since I have been sober again
tomorrow will be 15 years
best thing I ever did for myself lol
I agree with some others
why she would say you hide in church when AA is all she does
and only dating AA men
does not sound too open minded to me
maybe she has her stuff mixed up with what she thinks you are doing? like some projection going on??
" the rocks in her head fit the holes in mine"
I lived with a guy in AA several years ago we were dubbed the "yo-yo" couple
and they nailed us!!
I lost track of how many times we broke up and got back together! we finally had the bright idea to get married
oh yea, that helped LOL
for 5 years we were what I call "stark raving sober"
in other words sick as dogs
no offence to dogs
it was my untreated co dependency that finally helped me take myself out of AA and finally drunk after 13 years
Al anon saved my life as much as AA
I am relationship free by choice ever since I have been sober again
tomorrow will be 15 years
best thing I ever did for myself lol
I agree with some others
why she would say you hide in church when AA is all she does
and only dating AA men
does not sound too open minded to me
maybe she has her stuff mixed up with what she thinks you are doing? like some projection going on??
Member
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 385
According to Dr. Silkworth, alcoholism is an allergy of the body and an obsession of the mind
Obsesson don't disappear overnight, and I was warned about using substutes like food, work and relationships. I think that for me, AA was an obsession, but a healthy one that led me out of obssesive thinking. I needed an obsession and I can't think of a better one than AA, at least in the beginning....before I've internalized the Steps and learned to love myself.
It's been some years since I was obsessed with AA. I still attend meetings, but not in the belief that I'll drink if I don't. The key to my practice of recovery is in the 12th step: "practicing these principles in all my affairs." And I do a daily inventory to avoid slacking off. I agree that it's about recovery, not necessarily AA.
One of the more difficult things for me in early recovery (still is,actually) was reaching out for help. Feeling unworthy discourage that, but I had to work through it. So maybe you could reach out for help in covering those meetings while your away, and then just turn it over. Don'[t think about it. Enjoy your retreat.
A finaal thought: I was driven into sobriety by the lash of alcoholism. My early recovery was entirely centered on fear. But I kept coming back and learned that the antidote to fear is love. Lots of that in AA.
blessings
zbear
Obsesson don't disappear overnight, and I was warned about using substutes like food, work and relationships. I think that for me, AA was an obsession, but a healthy one that led me out of obssesive thinking. I needed an obsession and I can't think of a better one than AA, at least in the beginning....before I've internalized the Steps and learned to love myself.
It's been some years since I was obsessed with AA. I still attend meetings, but not in the belief that I'll drink if I don't. The key to my practice of recovery is in the 12th step: "practicing these principles in all my affairs." And I do a daily inventory to avoid slacking off. I agree that it's about recovery, not necessarily AA.
One of the more difficult things for me in early recovery (still is,actually) was reaching out for help. Feeling unworthy discourage that, but I had to work through it. So maybe you could reach out for help in covering those meetings while your away, and then just turn it over. Don'[t think about it. Enjoy your retreat.
A finaal thought: I was driven into sobriety by the lash of alcoholism. My early recovery was entirely centered on fear. But I kept coming back and learned that the antidote to fear is love. Lots of that in AA.
blessings
zbear
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