Kelltic

I went to my usual meeting last night. A friend whom I expected to be there wasn't. I started calling/texting with her regularly after she shared at a meeting that she needed the support of other women. It turned out that she was drunk in the parking lot (my AA "Dad" had sat outside with her during the meeting bc she wouldn't come in). I didn't confront her (someone else did) and she denied it....using the same excuses I used to. But she was. I made sure she got home ok and called her to check in.

Someone said this was a "sober reference" (what exactly is a sober reference?) I saw in her what I had been like, and it was not pretty. My heart aches for her & I'm praying. I'm not sure why I'm posting this, I guess I'm hoping some people with AA experience have some thoughts on this.

I think I am fortunate I was there in that I could help make sure she got home ok and check in (there were many other people concerned too) but also it was a powerful reminder of how pernicious alcoholism is, where I am coming from, and what I don't want to go back to. I've noticed that a few others who started AA with me has disappeared. My husband was worried that this would shake me in my recovery, but this strengthens my resolve to kick alcoholism in the a**.

It also frightens me. I don't want to be in and out of recovery. I don't want to relapse and I don't have to. I've seen a lot of relapse lately.

Tommyh

I`ve seen a lot of relapse too
recently I learned a old friend I haven`t seen in a yr relapsed.He was sober 12 yrs.
He got to carrying on with a woman and next thing you know,the relationship went sour and he ended up drunk.
he is back with us now.

muvinon

I remained quite fearful of drinking again for the first year. Relapses scared me. However, I think that eventually I did come to see that:

1. Some people aren't ready for sobriety.
2. Some people dismiss the suggestions and do it their way. Usually doesn't work out well.
3. And some folks teach themselves to relapse, using AA as a place to clean up their act for awhile. They always leave that door open to drink again, and they do.

Sober reference might just mean......"This event can be one that you refer to in your mind when thinking that it's ok to drink."

Kelltic

Thanks. I sometimes have that voice telling me I'm not REALLY an alcoholic bc I didn't drink every day, that AA is a cult that makes people dependent on it. Things like this are a reminder that I am indeed an alcoholic.

I do fear relapse, but I think it's a healthy fear that keeps me from being overly confident. I know that this person who relapsed was going to up to 4 meetings a day, working on the 4th step, has spent time in multiple detox and inpatient facilities. But to come to a meeting drunk and deny it means to me that the denial is winning out and I need to be vigilant about the denial in myself.

sugarbear1

it is sad, but most alcoholics die drunk.

I believe the "sober reference" means what you said, "it was a powerful reminder of how pernicious alcoholism is, where I am coming from, and what I don't want to go back to."

aasharon90

After family did an intervention on me
and spent 28 days in rehab and completing
a 6 week outpatiant aftercare program, I
also began to question whether I was actually
an alcoholic or not as I sat in meetings all
prim and proper, still married, 2 little ones,
a home, car etc.

As I continued with my daily recovery program,
I absorbed all I could comprehend as I listened
to many who had managed to stay sober for a
long period of time. I sat in meeting after meeting
until days turned into months then yrs and all
the knowledge of recovery that has helped me
stay sober for a many one days at a time, clicked
with me, and today I have no doubt that I am an
alcoholic.

When I hear in meetings those who went back
out to test the waters to see if they can sucessfully
drink to return and tell me it hasnt changed, that in
itself reassures me that even after 22 yrs sober,
drinking alcohol will never ever work for me.

Why, you many wonder....well, there will never
be enough alcohol in this world to quench my
thirst for it. So, I think I will stay right where
Im at continueing on my path in recovery.

Happy Joyous Free

Kelltic

aasharon90, I know that I am an alcoholic, and I hope that my journey is like yours. The spiritual awakening is supposed to come as a result of the 12 steps, but it's already begun for me...I even LOOK different, according to people in AA, my family, people from my outpatient group, as a result of embracing AA.

I'm keeping my eyes and ears wide open. Relapses remind me that doing it my way never, ever worked. I love life now and never want to pick up the unbearable burden of being an active alcoholic again.

sugarbear1

There is a spiritual awakening and a spiritual experience. You will know when each occurs, or around when it occurred.

Those I've known who went back out during their 4th step (or any step afterwards) took a bit long (basically stopped in the middle of the process--that stopping is painful), didn't work through it (the feelings can get intense, but that 5th step is where the perspective can change with the guidance of a sponsor who knows the steps and the step process well) and who didn't go to step 3 fully, by being under the care of their higher power.

Be thorough and fearless, it will all be okay!!! Do not hold onto any fear(s). Do not attempt perfection, just do it.

The relief and freedom is real.

laurie6781

A 'sober reference' is an event that happens, where one sees it and can say something like:

"there but for the grace of God go I."

and be extremely grateful to be sober.

there will be many of those as you continue to grow and change and live sober. They are always a reminder of where I could be today (and not very pretty) instead of where I am at today.

You did good to help, and I am glad that this event gave you more perseverance to stay sober rather than to pick up as your husband feared. That shows me your mindset on the 'sobriety thing', lol

There was a group of us (11 total) that all got sober between Mid May and Mid June of the same year. We hung together, we did lots of things together and even though some of moved away we all stayed in touch with each other. That is until someone would drop out because they had relapsed. I can tell you that today, 31 years later, there are only 3 of us from that group still alive and still sober. The other 8 at different lengths of sobriety went back out again and none of them made it back, those 8 have all passed away. We 3 are still going strong, well as strong as we can at our age now, roflmao and with some of the health issues some of us have, but we are still alive, sober and kicking!!!!

You will have this happen throughout your sober life and each time I pray that it will be a good reaffirmation for you of your sobriety!!!

Love and hugs,

Kelltic

I feel comforted knowing that it IS possible to get and STAY sober with AA. I'm going to have to continually be aware of step 3. I'm back at work now and definitely not as centered or calm as I was, but I am also definitely handling people and situations in a much more positive manner, reminding myself that it's not about my will. And I'm praying/doing visualization techniques.

zorah

Hi Kelltic,

I've had a little less fear of relapse since someone told me that we relapse mentally before we pick up the drink. I'm only 45 days sober and I've relapsed 4 times. when i look back at the state of mind i can see why i picked up, how i was set up for a slip without even knowing it. I used to think that a relapse just happens, that alcoholism grabs people randomly. now i know that the alcoholic mind is what i have to watch and if i can be aware of THAT, i'll be ok. we don't have power over alcoholism but we do have the power of choice--the choice, first of all, to use the tools available to us (meetings, reaching out to others, sponsorship, doing the steps etc. etc.), to think differently, to be more compassionate toward self and others, and so on. This is a thinking disease as well as a physical one. IMO, the thinking is the more insidious of the two. Example: this week I am feeling hopeless and resentful and i know where these states of mind will lead me; so I went to a meeting where I heard other people who felt hopeless and resentful and how the program is helping. I leave the meeting a lot lighter in my head because I saw that I'm not alone and that there's hope for me if I follow this spiritual program.

who knows how you can bless that woman by reaching out to her? she's probably consumed with self-loathing and yet here you are, caring for her without judging or criticizing. that in itself is a blessing.


zorah

Lily

I went back out after working my 4th and 5th. I think it is cuz I didn't really "work" them at the time but simply went thru the motions. I guess I didn't "believe" those things had passed.

My sponsee went out 2 nights ago she always told me knew everything already whenever I gave her a suggestion. I am thankful I know I am powerless over her program and he choices...I used to do a lot of false guilt. Today is day 2 for her!

If anything it too strengthened my program. I am sorry your friend went back out. Prayers that she will come back!

blessings, Sheila

tomsteve

IMO, the reference is:
You're
Eligible
Too

if you let it happen

NYCDoglvr

A terrible thing to witness, but a gift too. Once in a while I hear to see something that scares me enough that I make more phone calls, go to more meetings and read more.

Kelltic

I got another reminder last night...someone from my group who had a year and then went out came back...and last night he went out again and was missing. I'm praying for him and his family.

You are right about the signs of relapse being there before the relapse. Before I went into recovery, my husband knows me so well he usually knew when I was going to pick up before I did.

I have the tools with AA to not just stay sober but live an amazing life. And I never, ever want to feel the way I used to again. Self-loathing seems to be a huge aspect of picking up. The true gift for me so far (day 25) has been freedom from the burden of self-loathing.

paul99

I was tight with lots of the guys I got sober with...but as the days, weeks and months went on, lots of them went back out. Some quietly, some in blazes of fire. I have only three of those guys in my phone list today. I used to put a lot of emotional energy into the guys who picked up - tried to stop them, encourage them, chase them down...but I quickly learned that doing so was dangerous at times. I had to be careful not to endanger my (early) sobriety. So I took my "rescue" hat off and just continued to work my program.

I have spoken to many people who have gone back out (especially those who had some good time under their belt), and the one common thread they had is that they stopped enlarging their spiritual lives. One of the guys used those exact words. Here are men and women who had worked the steps (or most of them), were sponsoring, got to meetings, did service, etc. but they failed to live along spiritual lines. It was a very powerful lesson for me to hear that.

That has kept this alcoholic in check, let me tell you.

This thread here is a good reminder of where I have come from, where I have come to, where I need to be, and how easily it is for me to go back out.

Thank you for this!

Kelltic

Thanks, Paul! Since my concept of a higher power is the good energy in the universe/karma, I pray every morning (and throughout the day), to be a conduit of that positive energy. I try to act as a conductor of that energy.

I shared this in a meeting recently...whether it be for alcohol, drugs, food, sex, etc., many of us have an insatiable appetite. I think it's from trying to fill the emptiness that a lack of spirituality causes. There's no room for that appetite when you're right with your higher power.

Also, I know that I must be constantly on guard against diseased thoughts, such as "You're not REALLY an alcoholic, you can control it now!" When I think like that, I think about how I felt after my last drunk and contrast it with how I feel now.

A speaker said recently that those in early recovery should not try to help others in a crisis alone, that an active alcoholic will get you to drink well before you will get him to stop. I'm new, so I do what I can - I'm taking on a commitment tomorrow, I talk to people, I pick up my phone (not enough though), and sometimes I share. Above all, though, I listen.

Today, I am REALLY grateful to be sober and to wake up loving my higher power, myself, my family, LIFE. I also love not having a hangover!