RufusACanal

I no longer fight Alcoholism or Alcohol itself, so I no longer have to pray to stay sober. This is what I strive for, freedom from the clutches of a certain death and the ability to live as normal men do. Today, I talk with God about all kinds of things, usually topics revolving around mental stability more times than not and how best to be a part of life on a daily basis.

zbear23

Very interesting thread. It seems to me that everything would depend on the nature of MY higher power....how I "identify" the god of my understanding. That makes it awfully simple for me, because my HP is the All in All...purely love with no opposite, encompassing everything that is or ever was, including me. I cannot believe that anything or anyone stands outside of that divinity, that universal energy that I call god. Nor do I believe that pure love ever blesses some and curses others. It does not differentiate, does not judge but merely accepts and expands. Love has no character defects, and...being unconditional, has no opposite. That's my notion of God.

Which means that "god" doesn't "hear" my prayers, nor needs to, being all knowing, all present and all powerful. But I NEED TO HEAR MY PRAYERS. I need to affirm my desire to learn to love rather than fear, to see truth rather than illusion, to devote myself to a path of completion and unity rather than fragmentation and competition. I need to hear myself be committed to this thing I call "recovery." And for this reason, my basic prayer is all and always about willingness. "God make me willing." I am praying to myself, and to you, and to whatever that force is that holds everything together, that makes it all one, that joins every drop together to form the ocean. I pray to love my neighbor as myself because my neighbor IS myself.

I believe that I need to stay sober in order to realize my prayer...but I also believe that there is no way I can actually know "what is best for me" or, for that matter, what anything really means. I need to be willing, IMO, to look past a fearful ego to reach that "heaven" of pure, universal love, that sees no separation, no comparisons, no competition, no fears. My prayer is to become willing to see content rather than form, to live in the Truth of Beingness, rather than the illusion of doingness.

I used to collect buttons with messages. My very favorite was "I don't know, I don't know, I just don't know."

But I believe I need to pray for willingness....to be willing.
I think god doesn't have a sense of humor, any more than god has a body and character defects. If god did have a sense of humor, he/she/it would most likely be getting a huge chuckle out of me thinking I can somehow convince god to do MY will. Ha! fat chance.

blessings

Antiderivative

Maintenance is key, especially to long term sobriety. After a period of sobriety, resentments are no longer the number one offender, but complacency is.

Resentment is no Longer the Number One Offender

Harry01854

I gave this thread a quick look a couple nights ago, I was getting ready to go to bed and was tired, so I waited to reply.

Very, very interesting thread and replies.

My opinion is as simple as this. I'm not bullet proof. I have no guarantee that alcoholism won't ever sneak up on me if I let my guard down. From day number one, I have asked God, everyday, to help keep me clean and sober and to take away all thoughts and desires for me to have a drink or a drug, just for today. Of course I ask Him for the knowledge of His will for me daily and other things along the way. The obsession has been lifted and no matter what, asking for His help has worked for me since day one, it's not broken, I have no need to fix it.

Usually when I have heard of people relapsing, (Incuding some who have been through the process of the 12 Steps), I have heard them say, I stopped going to meetings, thought I was okay, and stopped staying in touch with my sponsor or other alcoholics. I had the opportunity to ask a few of them, did you continue to ask God for help? and their reply was, no!

I trust in God, He has and never will fail me. I also depend and rely on God, and one of those things is to help me stay clean and sober, just for today.

I just don't believe I can do it without His help.

I love who I am today and I love the life that I live. I just don't choose to play games with my sobriety and recovery. God has done too many things for me that I could never have done for myself.

Harry

radicalproposal

This is the 12 step forum correct? The steps are in the Big Book correct? So why are we posting information that contradicts the book?

People are free to have their opinion, in the 12 step forum it would be nice to see a consistent message. I read the article in the link. I thought it was ok.

My only comments would be this, in AA we get RECOVERED, and we do it for good and all. If I say I am recovering today, I imply the program has failed.

LexieCat

My understanding is that our continued recovered status is dependent upon the maintenance of our spiritual condition.

Is that not in the BB? Page 85? "Daily reprieve?"

Antiderivative

Oh sheesh...I see I stirred the hornets nest. I had nothing, but good intentions. I didn't realize that pointing out that complacency may be considered the number one offender for people with long term sobriety would cause you so much discomfort.

Plus, go and read the BB. It talks about maintenance. Steps 10-12, specifically. So, don't rest on your laurels and get complacent, which is an offender for people with long-term sobriety.

From page 85 from the 3rd edition: "It is easy to let up on the spiritual program of action and rest on our laurels. We are headed for trouble if we do, for alcohol is a subtle foe. We are not cured of alcoholism. What we really have is a daily reprieve contingent on the maintenance of our spiritual condition."

Nonetheless, I see that you just want to be argumentative, which is hardly spiritual.

shaun00

I dont ask god to keep me sober.
i guess because the problem has gone.

These days i ask for the privilege to be in the right place at the right time...that i might carry this message of hope and recovery.

RobbyRobot

I have long term sobriety (1981) and for me complacency would be the thing that gives me the most difficulties today compared with resentments. Actual resentments are much easier to identify and resolve, put behind me, and get on with my day. Issues with complacency are a more insidious and deep rooted difficulty which requires a deeper rigorous honesty and ever-growing spiritual health for me to maintain that cutting edge to my sober life. Naturally, although we all share common problems and solutions, we each have our own experiences to harvest from when we identify ourselves as alcoholics either in recovery or as recovered. Live and let live.

Along with my sometimes complacency comes taking things for granted. Giving back with gratitude, with humility, is the only remedy, for me, which always wins back the day. Service to others and faith in actions keeps me on daily alert and aware of my responsibilities in living a sober spiritual life.

Whether resentments or complacency, or whatever, being the number one killer makes little difference to me anymore with as many years as I gratefully possess for the simple reason that I have long known the truth that at the end of the day any alcoholic who lives a sober spiritual life will absolutely have all the required safeguards to not only keep sober but do so happily, productively, freely, gratefully, honorably, with strength, with purpose, and with service to all peoples daily. Anything that can get me drunk and then kill me dead has my priority attention and that simplicity works well for my needs. I am recovered from my alcoholism, and my life is forever in an ongoing recovery experience from my daily wrongs. Progression not perfection has my name all over it, the way I see it.

FWIW, I'm not complacent [or resentful] today.

Cheers!

Rob

zbear23

Hi Rob. Nice share. I see no good reason to compare and prioritize those behaviors that are "most" dangerous to my recovery. Like you, I believe that so long as I practice the principles....maintain my spiritual fitness...that is a discussion that only appeals to my prideful ego. Exempting any of the principles in which I believe is a step down the road to disaster. I suppose we could also discuss the seven deadly sins....with Pride heading the list....but why bother if I'm willing to practice humility?

I especially like that you shared your own experience, strength and hope rather than arguing an intellectual POV...and labelling those who might not agree.

I've found it not unusual to admire the spiritual fitness of those who have been practicing it over longer periods of time. The more and longer I practice, the better I get at it. Who knows....maybe one day we'll all attain perfection.

blessings
zenbear

Music

Well, I don't believe if I drink again that it would be God's will. I do believe that God is good, loving, protecting, compassionate, etc. I also believe there is evil. Evil is the opposite of good. There are evil(bad)influences that exist. If I choose to be with God, I dodge the evil. If I choose the evil, I move away from God and bad things happen. So, the idea of staying close to God by seeking His will for me is a good idea. God doesn't do evil but He does allow me to go in that direction.

As soon as I read the title to this thread I thought to myself, damn, come to think of it, I don't and haven't consciously prayed specifically for sobriety for some time. Well, maybe once in a while but not daily like I used to. I mentioned in another thread, something about "when does praying become nagging'? God knows what I need and what I want. Why keep bugging Him about it? I don't mean stop praying, I just mean get off God's back and give Him some credit for knowing what's best for me.

murrill

Keith, I am one of the "not-so-Western-religion-inclined", and I think you described my POV quite well. Like some others around here, I also have long-term sobriety (1988). Yet a few years ago I found myself in a sort of rut, a "now what?" moment, if you will. No, drinking didn't cross my mind, but I wasn't enjoying life as I once had. Long story short: I quit smoking, which reintroduced me to recovery-type stuff, to recovery people, etc.....
In the early days of sobriety I prayed--no, I begged & pleaded---for sobriety. I soooo wanted "it," so feared I would relapse and die. Problem was that I had trouble with the "God stuff." Eventually I would come to terms with how spirituality worked for me, what it meant in my life, and I became willing to "turn it over." Today my perception is not one of a deity, and I do not send up a daily wish list. That would be presumptuous of me, wouldn't it?
As zbear wrote, I am the one who needs the prayers. My notion of spirit is that it is constant & flowing & it does not need my request. My task is to align with it. As writer C. S. Lewis--egads! A Christian, nonetheless!--said, "Prayer doesn't change God. It changes me."
Sobriety was the startin point. It put me on a playing field that was level with everyone else (more or less). From there I have a choice to grow or to waste away in self-pity or resentments or any other character defects I may choose to nourish.

Boleo

For years I was aiming at a target that had "abstinence" as it's bullseye and failed to stay sober. Now I aim at a completely different target. One that has "spiritual fitness" as the bullseye and sobriety is not even an issue at all for me.

I no longer think about drinkin, no longer think about not drinkin, nor do I worry about going back to drinkin. Why? Because it is none of my business, so long as "I stay spiritually fit".

oak

Regarding the OP, I also think praying to stay sober could be contradictory to praying only for god's will for us. I remember my sponsor telling me to pray for sobriety, but I don't think I did it often because it felt wrong to me to pray for specifics.

If my purpose/calling/god's will is for me to be sober, then it's covered by praying for god's will.

If my calling is something else, so be it. I do think difficult experiences could be part of our purposes here on earth. The only problem I see with this approach is that it could be used as an excuse for complacency or relapsing.

All that said, I've recently prayed for sobriety. Rather desperately prayed!

I think people should do whatever gives them strength and hope.

radicalproposal

I've sat with this a bit before responding. I'll clarify a few thoughts and let it go.
1. I had issue with the link you posted, as it was not consistent with the message that is in the Big Book. That being said, I imagine you will still do what suits you, fortunately I know how to write inventory and get clear.

2. You do not have the power to cause me discomfort. I get to choose who and what bothers me. I find that "my troubles are of my own making" to be one of the greatest promises in the book.

Antiderivative

1. I am not sure how the message of complacency is not consistent with the Big Book. I even referenced page 85 that the Big Book warns about complacency since alcohol is a subtle foe.

2. That is wonderful and a sign of a healthy person. I apologize for assuming that my post caused you agitation.

I also agree with you that "my troubles are of my own making". Page 53 talks about a self-imposed crisis and that is what alcoholism is. I love the illustration of the jay-walker story: its all self-afflicted.