Angry with God
12-Step Recovered Alkie
Join Date: May 2010
Location: West Bloomfield, MI
Posts: 5,797
Originally Posted by ananda 
I am an agnositic by nature who chooses to act out of a faith in something i'm not sure of 
That's one of the coolest things I've heard (er, um.... read)!!!
It`s ok to stay sober
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Central NC
Posts: 20,903
Steve,I believe I understand your original post quite well.I agree,in my case I was angry at almost everyone and everything.I also agree with Trucker,about the fear underneath the anger.
I was quite scared of this God I had heard about but did not really know for most of my life.If I am scared of God,or angry with God,how can I trust and rely on Him?I cannot because I do not want too in that case.Only by experiencing God by taking the steps did I come to believe....
about the discussion on anger,my sponsor and the big book gets me back on track there,anger will kill me-no distinction is made in our program about justified anger or unjustified anger,both kills alcoholics...anger is not healthy for alcoholics
I have a solution to anger and fear,the kit of spiritual tools laid at my feet to use,if I choose not to use them,it is on me and me alone,no one else to blame.
I was quite scared of this God I had heard about but did not really know for most of my life.If I am scared of God,or angry with God,how can I trust and rely on Him?I cannot because I do not want too in that case.Only by experiencing God by taking the steps did I come to believe....
about the discussion on anger,my sponsor and the big book gets me back on track there,anger will kill me-no distinction is made in our program about justified anger or unjustified anger,both kills alcoholics...anger is not healthy for alcoholics
I have a solution to anger and fear,the kit of spiritual tools laid at my feet to use,if I choose not to use them,it is on me and me alone,no one else to blame.
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Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 1,861
Being free of anger does not mean we never experience it. Denying my anger makes me a prisoner to it. My secrets keep me sick. Resentments kill, not anger- They are different. Resentment is a manifestation of anger
It`s ok to stay sober
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Central NC
Posts: 20,903
right Steve,by not facing anger we do get sick and stay sick,we are very fortunate we have the tools to be free of it
many times in AA we hear "resentment is the number one offender"
but instead of doing resentment inventories I do anger inventories the same way
I have known quite a few AA`s say,they did not put something down on their inventory because it did not seem like a resentment but just anger...don`t make much sense to me but if they wanna do it,it`s on them,not us
anger is what we should inventory because Bill W did not make a distinction between the two that I am aware of right at the moment.Not much difference for me between the two,so,the number one offender and destroys more alcoholics than anything else.....we listed .....with whom we was angry...if I am to live I have to be free of anger..
far as I am concerned,I see them both as the same
good discussion
many times in AA we hear "resentment is the number one offender"
but instead of doing resentment inventories I do anger inventories the same way
I have known quite a few AA`s say,they did not put something down on their inventory because it did not seem like a resentment but just anger...don`t make much sense to me but if they wanna do it,it`s on them,not us
anger is what we should inventory because Bill W did not make a distinction between the two that I am aware of right at the moment.Not much difference for me between the two,so,the number one offender and destroys more alcoholics than anything else.....we listed .....with whom we was angry...if I am to live I have to be free of anger..
far as I am concerned,I see them both as the same
good discussion
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 4,682
I'll use words that i use with little explanantion of them
I believe in the 'soul' and that we are all 'children' of God, JC being the most enlightened 'child' that has ever been here. I believe the 'soul' is on a journey and we are along for the ride...therefore whatever we are here to experience will happen.
I believe that free will is an illusion, the only free will being how we react or interpret events with regards to our feelings, emotions, learned behaviour basically.
I believe that the closer we get to the 'soul' and in effect then God the more we can influence what would be the unimportant events to the journey, e.g. you down to get hit by number 29 bus next Tuesday you gonna get hit...but in the meantime you can either be happy, joyous and free or be as miserable as you like...how to be happy was written down ages ago and is even in a book especially for alcoholics...
I believe that the 'soul' and God does absolutely want us to be happy on the 'souls' journey...
Therefore it would make as much sense for me to get angry at God as it would for me to get angry at the sun rising in the morning...because its going to happen anyway...i guess i could get angry but then i dont think i would have a very close conscious contact or understanding of MY God of MY understanding.
But if i was still believing in the old testament God, the one who was going to judge me and send me straight to hell, the one who, for example, took everything away from Job just to prove a point etc then yeah i would be pissed at that God and rightfully so IMO.
Hope that doesnt offend anyone:-)
I believe in the 'soul' and that we are all 'children' of God, JC being the most enlightened 'child' that has ever been here. I believe the 'soul' is on a journey and we are along for the ride...therefore whatever we are here to experience will happen.
I believe that free will is an illusion, the only free will being how we react or interpret events with regards to our feelings, emotions, learned behaviour basically.
I believe that the closer we get to the 'soul' and in effect then God the more we can influence what would be the unimportant events to the journey, e.g. you down to get hit by number 29 bus next Tuesday you gonna get hit...but in the meantime you can either be happy, joyous and free or be as miserable as you like...how to be happy was written down ages ago and is even in a book especially for alcoholics...
I believe that the 'soul' and God does absolutely want us to be happy on the 'souls' journey...
Therefore it would make as much sense for me to get angry at God as it would for me to get angry at the sun rising in the morning...because its going to happen anyway...i guess i could get angry but then i dont think i would have a very close conscious contact or understanding of MY God of MY understanding.
But if i was still believing in the old testament God, the one who was going to judge me and send me straight to hell, the one who, for example, took everything away from Job just to prove a point etc then yeah i would be pissed at that God and rightfully so IMO.
Hope that doesnt offend anyone:-)
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Join Date: May 2008
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I I agree whenever I am angry, it is like a warning light going off and saying- Do some inventory now!
Anger is our (mostly) automatic response to a situation; we usually can't control the fact of our anger, but we can control how we behave when anger strikes. Resentment is really a choice - we've decided, on some level, or allowed ourselves to stay angry.
The Big Book of Alcoholics Anonymous says "Resentment is the 'number one' offender" (p. 64) with good reason.
A resentment is usually about what someone or something has done to us.
A resentment keeps us feeling like a victim.
According to the dictionary resentment means: "A feeling of indignant displeasure or persistent ill will at something regarded as a wrong, insult, or injury." The key word in this definition is persistent; when you feel resentment you keep having fantasies about revenge.
Anger means: "A strong feeling of displeasure and usually of antagonism."
do anger inventories the same way
Anger is our (mostly) automatic response to a situation; we usually can't control the fact of our anger, but we can control how we behave when anger strikes. Resentment is really a choice - we've decided, on some level, or allowed ourselves to stay angry.
The Big Book of Alcoholics Anonymous says "Resentment is the 'number one' offender" (p. 64) with good reason.
A resentment is usually about what someone or something has done to us.
A resentment keeps us feeling like a victim.
According to the dictionary resentment means: "A feeling of indignant displeasure or persistent ill will at something regarded as a wrong, insult, or injury." The key word in this definition is persistent; when you feel resentment you keep having fantasies about revenge.
Anger means: "A strong feeling of displeasure and usually of antagonism."
Don't resist, allow
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: South East of England
Posts: 1,521
Originally Posted by navysteve
I
I agree whenever I am angry, it is like a warning light going off and saying- Do some inventory now!
Anger is our (mostly) automatic response to a situation; we usually can't control the fact of our anger, but we can control how we behave when anger strikes. Resentment is really a choice - we've decided, on some level, or allowed ourselves to stay angry.
The Big Book of Alcoholics Anonymous says "Resentment is the 'number one' offender" (p. 64) with good reason.
A resentment is usually about what someone or something has done to us.
A resentment keeps us feeling like a victim.
According to the dictionary resentment means: "A feeling of indignant displeasure or persistent ill will at something regarded as a wrong, insult, or injury." The key word in this definition is persistent; when you feel resentment you keep having fantasies about revenge.
Anger means: "A strong feeling of displeasure and usually of antagonism."
I agree whenever I am angry, it is like a warning light going off and saying- Do some inventory now!
Anger is our (mostly) automatic response to a situation; we usually can't control the fact of our anger, but we can control how we behave when anger strikes. Resentment is really a choice - we've decided, on some level, or allowed ourselves to stay angry.
The Big Book of Alcoholics Anonymous says "Resentment is the 'number one' offender" (p. 64) with good reason.
A resentment is usually about what someone or something has done to us.
A resentment keeps us feeling like a victim.
According to the dictionary resentment means: "A feeling of indignant displeasure or persistent ill will at something regarded as a wrong, insult, or injury." The key word in this definition is persistent; when you feel resentment you keep having fantasies about revenge.
Anger means: "A strong feeling of displeasure and usually of antagonism."
I understand that anger is an automatic response which cannot be avoided in certain situations. You say that the key word is "persistent" for resentments.
So would you say that anger turns to resentment if you have been angry for a certain period of time?
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Join Date: May 2010
Location: New Hampshire, USA
Posts: 224
Part of what I do for a living is to teach philosophy, so I am familiar with any number of "understandings" of God. Sometimes I wish I had fewer understandings, because I am thereby distracted from what I really need, which is a relationship with a God, a presence of God in my life. The understandings, any number of which might might appeal to me intellectually, do seem to distract me from my effort at achieving such a relationship, such a presence. So as of only a few days ago, I have given up on the understanding business in the context of recovery and have asked God - however he might be understood - to show me his presence in my life; and he has! Perhaps, as interested as I remain in ideas, including religious ones, God as useful in the life of this alcoholic "surpasseth understanding." I am content with that. It has given me greater peace and has enabled me to complete step 4 and to anticipate completing step 5 before the week is up.
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Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Lexington, KY
Posts: 18
Norther,
As a philosophy student and amateur theologists I can completely identify with your dilemma. IDK which God you place your faith in, but there were many things that I blindly accepted by faith that really tested my ability to believe in Christianity after learning some of the history. There are many intellectual challenges that made me wonder about the truthfulness of the Bible.
You are probably better suited than I to answer what is real. Is the elusive Sasquatch real? To me, I've never encountered one, and I've only heard individual accounts with unverified physical evidence. I'd bet to those who have encountered an ape-like creature face to face they are very real.
In my case, the God "I AM" is very real and interacts with us. Have I seen him? No, but I inaudibly hear him. This concept is hard for the non-believer to understand. Its like an intuitive voice, yet far beyond my conscious intuition. Things happen based on the leading of this voice that extend beyond my ability to reason as chance.
I am glad for you that you've found peace. Philosophy is a deep "rabbit hole" that can really lead thoughts to contemplate truth. I'm not certain absolute truth exists on Earth, but the nearest thing I've found to it is the teaching of the Bible.
As a philosophy student and amateur theologists I can completely identify with your dilemma. IDK which God you place your faith in, but there were many things that I blindly accepted by faith that really tested my ability to believe in Christianity after learning some of the history. There are many intellectual challenges that made me wonder about the truthfulness of the Bible.
You are probably better suited than I to answer what is real. Is the elusive Sasquatch real? To me, I've never encountered one, and I've only heard individual accounts with unverified physical evidence. I'd bet to those who have encountered an ape-like creature face to face they are very real.
In my case, the God "I AM" is very real and interacts with us. Have I seen him? No, but I inaudibly hear him. This concept is hard for the non-believer to understand. Its like an intuitive voice, yet far beyond my conscious intuition. Things happen based on the leading of this voice that extend beyond my ability to reason as chance.
I am glad for you that you've found peace. Philosophy is a deep "rabbit hole" that can really lead thoughts to contemplate truth. I'm not certain absolute truth exists on Earth, but the nearest thing I've found to it is the teaching of the Bible.
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Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 1,861
So would you say that anger turns to resentment if you have been angry for a certain period of time?
I wasn't trying to get into an intellectual discussion about what is God and what isn't God. I was simply talking about the expression of feelings, positive and negative.
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Join Date: May 2010
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Originally Posted by Norther
........distracted from what I really need, which is a relationship with a God, a presence of God in my life.
.....which might might appeal to me intellectually, do seem to distract me from my effort at achieving such a relationship, such a presence.
..........I have given up on the understanding business in the context of recovery and have asked God - however he might be understood - to show me his presence in my life; and he has!
......God as useful in the life of this alcoholic "surpasseth understanding." I am content with that.
It has given me greater peace and has enabled me to complete step 4 and to anticipate completing step 5 before the week is up.
.....which might might appeal to me intellectually, do seem to distract me from my effort at achieving such a relationship, such a presence.
..........I have given up on the understanding business in the context of recovery and have asked God - however he might be understood - to show me his presence in my life; and he has!
......God as useful in the life of this alcoholic "surpasseth understanding." I am content with that.
It has given me greater peace and has enabled me to complete step 4 and to anticipate completing step 5 before the week is up.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 812
I've never been angry with God.
To me, it would be like if I were hammering a nail and my right arm slipped and hit my left thumb. Would I be angry with my right hand for hitting my left? Would I develop a resentment toward my right hand for hurting my left hand?
When I experience suffering, my attitude about God changes, but typically it forces me to concentrate and focus. Just like when I go to hit that nail again. You can bet I'm focused and concentrating on what I'm doing.
To me, it would be like if I were hammering a nail and my right arm slipped and hit my left thumb. Would I be angry with my right hand for hitting my left? Would I develop a resentment toward my right hand for hurting my left hand?
When I experience suffering, my attitude about God changes, but typically it forces me to concentrate and focus. Just like when I go to hit that nail again. You can bet I'm focused and concentrating on what I'm doing.
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Join Date: Oct 2008
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Originally Posted by keepcominback
It was God's plan that we have a life on earth. That's what we are given. We make what we can with that life. If we seek God, we can find Him and He will help us make the most of it and to be happy while we live it here on this earth.
I believe that the story of Genesis has much insight. He gave Adam and Eve a perfect life, but that wasn't enough, we had to have more... So here we are... somewhere east of Eden
Good stuff
Mark
Last edited by greeteachday; 06-20-2014 at 05:38 PM.
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There is a fine line between good and evil. Albert Einstein theorized that the absence of God is what results in evil, as to say the absence of light is darkness. Is God capable of evil? Measurements of morality are based on the 'right rules of conduct.' We know the right rules for each of us, but where is God's morality defined? Its not. Therefore we are left to trust that God is good. God is not the adjective "good," but more accurately the proper noun "good." Isaiah 51 says, "My ways and thoughts are higher than yours, says the Lord." Death is only a transition to another dimension or reality. God in all likelihood views our transition through death much like we view a child passing through adolescence.
So why is there pain and suffering in this existence? And why doesn't a good and caring God prevent it? Mankind chose separation from God who once dwelled among us. Mankind was not given free-will, they took or stole it. God is capable and powerful enough to prevent it, but He promised He would not intervene, and force His will upon us. God limited Himself, which is His only limitation. Therefore mankind chose a life aside from the Creator. The good news is that God came as a man to bridge or create a direct line of communication with Him. Setting our will aside completely to follow God's coaching is what results as good.
So why is there pain and suffering in this existence? And why doesn't a good and caring God prevent it? Mankind chose separation from God who once dwelled among us. Mankind was not given free-will, they took or stole it. God is capable and powerful enough to prevent it, but He promised He would not intervene, and force His will upon us. God limited Himself, which is His only limitation. Therefore mankind chose a life aside from the Creator. The good news is that God came as a man to bridge or create a direct line of communication with Him. Setting our will aside completely to follow God's coaching is what results as good.
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Join Date: Oct 2008
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Did it not take free will to take it, or steal it?
Good stuff AMS... That is a great perspective you offer. The Son of God, in my understanding of God and spirituality, was perfect only in His relationship with God, His Father.
I see myself as I child of God. Sometimes, more than I care to admit, I am a spoiled little brat.... when I get angry with God.... But if I settle down, let Him be The Father, I can be closer to Him, and all my needs are met
Good stuff AMS... That is a great perspective you offer. The Son of God, in my understanding of God and spirituality, was perfect only in His relationship with God, His Father.
I see myself as I child of God. Sometimes, more than I care to admit, I am a spoiled little brat.... when I get angry with God.... But if I settle down, let Him be The Father, I can be closer to Him, and all my needs are met
Forward we go...side by side-Rest In Peace
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Serene In Dixie
Posts: 36,740
I have never been angry with my God.....nor have I
ever felt our connection harmful in my life.
The physical disabilities/ddiseases I have are not punishments.
Not one has a thing to do with my alcoholism.
or my recovery.
I had God in my heart long before AA.
Speaking of AA......
ever felt our connection harmful in my life.
The physical disabilities/ddiseases I have are not punishments.
Not one has a thing to do with my alcoholism.or my recovery.
I had God in my heart long before AA.
Speaking of AA......
"We found that as soon as we were able to lay aside prejudice and
express even a willingness to believe in a Power greater than
ourselves, we commenced to get results, even though it was impossible
for any of us to fully define or comprehend that Power, which is God."
~Alcoholics Anonymous, 1st. Edition,
We Agnostics, pg. 46~
express even a willingness to believe in a Power greater than
ourselves, we commenced to get results, even though it was impossible
for any of us to fully define or comprehend that Power, which is God."
~Alcoholics Anonymous, 1st. Edition,
We Agnostics, pg. 46~
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"We found that as soon as we were able to lay aside prejudice and
express even a willingness to believe in a Power greater than
ourselves, we commenced to get results, even though it was impossible
for any of us to fully define or comprehend that Power, which is God."
express even a willingness to believe in a Power greater than
ourselves, we commenced to get results, even though it was impossible
for any of us to fully define or comprehend that Power, which is God."
It just is
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