Angry with God
Don't resist, allow
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: South East of England
Posts: 1,521
Originally Posted by ananda 
I've always wondered how someone could really believe in god and not have a resentment...unless they are a saint...
it baffles me.
it baffles me.
I do get angry and have resentments but God is the one I turn to in those times so I can feel at peace again.
This is a very interesting and timely discussion for me, thanks Steve - I'm working with someone who has a lot of anger with God.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Lexington, KY
Posts: 18
Originally Posted by DayTrader
I don't know that I get "angry" at God but I do get disappointed and/or anxious with Him.
For me so far, it's been pretty much 100% rooted in my inability to get God to do what I want, when I want it, and the way I want Him to do it (aka: CONTROL - or lack thereof) + not having enough faith YET to really trust Him 100%. That goes for things that are happening (or not happening) now and occasionally for things that happened/didn't happen in the past.
Regarding the past stuff that did or didn't happen the way I wanted it go go, given enough time, I usually discover that I was lucky (blessed) that they happened the way they did. That understanding usually helps me not get too uptight with the stuff that's goin' on now but it's still the path of least resistance for me (just beginning yr 4) to go back to anxiety and fear.
For me so far, it's been pretty much 100% rooted in my inability to get God to do what I want, when I want it, and the way I want Him to do it (aka: CONTROL - or lack thereof) + not having enough faith YET to really trust Him 100%. That goes for things that are happening (or not happening) now and occasionally for things that happened/didn't happen in the past.
Regarding the past stuff that did or didn't happen the way I wanted it go go, given enough time, I usually discover that I was lucky (blessed) that they happened the way they did. That understanding usually helps me not get too uptight with the stuff that's goin' on now but it's still the path of least resistance for me (just beginning yr 4) to go back to anxiety and fear.
I've attempted to respond to your PM several times. The first few PMs were declined because I hadn't reached five posts. I don't know if you've received any from me, and I don't show any sent as of yet. Please understand I'm not ignoring you.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 1,861
I see that there are three possibilities. One - that there is an intelligent deity and there is purpose and reason in our lives, two - random chance favored our existence, three - natural selection - humans evolved to the highest species through adaption.
As a man thinketh he becometh comes to mind. I believe God is the collective energy of those who walk a certain path, not a single deity at all. When I pray, I connect with that power. I can use the prayers of the great religious and philosophical thinkers of all time because like us, they were simply trying to get to understand it in a better way, and expressed it in concepts that made sense ( Mother, Father, the Sun etc...).
This power has to be invited in ( in my understanding). It is not intrusive, and can seem somewhat elusive at times. It does not demand that I deny who I am, in fact, I will be shunned for not exposing my true self to this power. But it does demand that I adhere to a few spiritual truths.
Service rendered to others for service sake. Not to be done in anyone's name, with no strings attached.
Acceptance of all, including me ( this means even our emotional state- both good and bad).
An honest desire to grow in understanding of this power ( of course this is where I have trouble, with all of the great teachings around me, they are also flawed, so we have to step out on faith)
Faith- trust in the intangible ( heavy sigh...)
We say alot of confusing things in AA that add to this.
We talk about no coincidences and how God intervenes in our lives but are quick to say "well God didn't do that!"
The truth is that none of us can prove it to another, and you cannot develop an opinion about an experience you have never had. The road is roomy and all inclusive, all we have to do is seek and it will be revealed.
When????
That is another story ( and another source of frustration)
Member
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Lexington, KY
Posts: 18
Originally Posted by Mark75
AML... I like all three 
Member
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Lexington, KY
Posts: 18
Originally Posted by navysteve
I see many more possibilities-
As a man thinketh he becometh comes to mind. I believe God is the collective energy of those who walk a certain path, not a single deity at all. When I pray, I connect with that power. I can use the prayers of the great religious and philosophical thinkers of all time because like us, they were simply trying to get to understand it in a better way, and expressed it in concepts that made sense ( Mother, Father, the Sun etc...).
This power has to be invited in ( in my understanding). It is not intrusive, and can seem somewhat elusive at times. It does not demand that I deny who I am, in fact, I will be shunned for not exposing my true self to this power. But it does demand that I adhere to a few spiritual truths.
Service rendered to others for service sake. Not to be done in anyone's name, with no strings attached.
Acceptance of all, including me ( this means even our emotional state- both good and bad).
An honest desire to grow in understanding of this power ( of course this is where I have trouble, with all of the great teachings around me, they are also flawed, so we have to step out on faith)
Faith- trust in the intangible ( heavy sigh...)
We say alot of confusing things in AA that add to this.
We talk about no coincidences and how God intervenes in our lives but are quick to say "well God didn't do that!"
The truth is that none of us can prove it to another, and you cannot develop an opinion about an experience you have never had. The road is roomy and all inclusive, all we have to do is seek and it will be revealed.
When????
That is another story ( and another source of frustration)
As a man thinketh he becometh comes to mind. I believe God is the collective energy of those who walk a certain path, not a single deity at all. When I pray, I connect with that power. I can use the prayers of the great religious and philosophical thinkers of all time because like us, they were simply trying to get to understand it in a better way, and expressed it in concepts that made sense ( Mother, Father, the Sun etc...).
This power has to be invited in ( in my understanding). It is not intrusive, and can seem somewhat elusive at times. It does not demand that I deny who I am, in fact, I will be shunned for not exposing my true self to this power. But it does demand that I adhere to a few spiritual truths.
Service rendered to others for service sake. Not to be done in anyone's name, with no strings attached.
Acceptance of all, including me ( this means even our emotional state- both good and bad).
An honest desire to grow in understanding of this power ( of course this is where I have trouble, with all of the great teachings around me, they are also flawed, so we have to step out on faith)
Faith- trust in the intangible ( heavy sigh...)
We say alot of confusing things in AA that add to this.
We talk about no coincidences and how God intervenes in our lives but are quick to say "well God didn't do that!"
The truth is that none of us can prove it to another, and you cannot develop an opinion about an experience you have never had. The road is roomy and all inclusive, all we have to do is seek and it will be revealed.
When????
That is another story ( and another source of frustration)
This collective energy is one of Carl Jung's theories. Why do circles or certain shapes mean something to even the most isolated humans? Jung argued against Freud that the ID is a collective memory that all humans share. Great psychology! Unfortunately it lacks a beginning in the evolution theory. When humans became self-aware, what gave them this collective memory?
As a certified amateur psychologist, I argue against Jung and Freud. I suggest the collective energy / memory is transmitted and received by humans. Wow! No I'm not tripping here! There is a receptor / transmitter other than human (whose ways and thoughts are higher than human) is where you and I differ. ESP has scientific roots and can be duplicated.
Don't resist, allow
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: South East of England
Posts: 1,521
Originally Posted by AMLSurvivor
I see that there are three possibilities. One - that there is an intelligent deity and there is purpose and reason in our lives, two - random chance favored our existence, three - natural selection - humans evolved to the highest species through adaption.
May I ask which you ascribe to? Maybe you have a fourth or fifth possibility?
May I ask which you ascribe to? Maybe you have a fourth or fifth possibility?
My friend suggested what seemed a novel idea. He said, "Why don't you choose your own conception of God" ~ p12
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 1,861
Great psychology! Unfortunately it lacks a beginning in the evolution theory. When humans became self-aware, what gave them this collective memory?
More will be revealed right?
Member
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Lexington, KY
Posts: 18
Originally Posted by navysteve
It doesn't conflict with that all. After all...
More will be revealed right?
More will be revealed right?
Adventures In SpaceTime
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Posts: 5,827
Through The Glass Darkly
Interesting freaky thread.
I just wanted to chime in with there are remarkable differences between "turning our lives over to a God as we understand Him" -and- "creating the understanding required to enable turning our lives over to a God"
Yes?
I know for me my quest for understanding ends wherever my sobriety begins and sustains ongoing. Having my sanity restored is enough. Having the gifts of sobriety are enough. Giving and sharing back with others is enough. Im sober today. Done.
For me, "creating" that understanding was a dead end. There is an old saying -- "If God didnt exist, we would have to create Him." Hmmm. Deep meaning for me. Again with the slippery slope stuff but its not really helpful, from my experience, both drunk and sober, to create "God." Sounds trite and obvious sure for some, but there it is, a huge life-lesson learned for me after years of trial-and-error. heh. Creating "God" is not as difficult as one may think. Been there big time.
To each our own journey of course. I got here from somewhere faraway too and we all have to start where we start. No way around it. I changed me to accept my understanding of God rather than change my understanding to accept God.
Cheers!
Rob
I just wanted to chime in with there are remarkable differences between "turning our lives over to a God as we understand Him" -and- "creating the understanding required to enable turning our lives over to a God"
Yes?
I know for me my quest for understanding ends wherever my sobriety begins and sustains ongoing. Having my sanity restored is enough. Having the gifts of sobriety are enough. Giving and sharing back with others is enough. Im sober today. Done.
For me, "creating" that understanding was a dead end. There is an old saying -- "If God didnt exist, we would have to create Him." Hmmm. Deep meaning for me. Again with the slippery slope stuff but its not really helpful, from my experience, both drunk and sober, to create "God." Sounds trite and obvious sure for some, but there it is, a huge life-lesson learned for me after years of trial-and-error. heh. Creating "God" is not as difficult as one may think. Been there big time.
To each our own journey of course. I got here from somewhere faraway too and we all have to start where we start. No way around it. I changed me to accept my understanding of God rather than change my understanding to accept God.
Cheers!
Rob
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 1,861
Robby,
If I were creating the understanding I would have no conflict with the God of my understanding, hence this thread would never exist. Ebby did start the ball rolling by telling Bill to choose a God of his understanding. That opens the door to all kinds of ideas. And far from being a threat to what we all consider to be God, they prove how wide the door really is
If I were creating the understanding I would have no conflict with the God of my understanding, hence this thread would never exist. Ebby did start the ball rolling by telling Bill to choose a God of his understanding. That opens the door to all kinds of ideas. And far from being a threat to what we all consider to be God, they prove how wide the door really is
Member
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Even watermelons are laughing at you.
Posts: 108
Originally Posted by AMLSurvivor
Agree. I am not angry with God, but when I see others equally deserving living a plush cushy life it occurs to me that there is injustice on Earth. Of course, there is, because we live in a fallen world. I am not righteous by deed, but by faith.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,947
Originally Posted by AMLSurvivor
Natural Selection would provide that we'd adapt to bacterias and germs that kill us.
Don't get me started on the whole Genesis vs. Evolution thing. I might not stop! In a good way though.... The God of my understanding allows me to understand as much as I need, no more, no less... It's all good
Member
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 26,425
I guess i'm no longer trying to tie down a definition of my HP....staying open to see what seems to make sense day to day.
You know the beauty of the program is that it seems more concerned with leading me through the steps to find my HP and get power from it, then in having me figure it all out in my head and present my truth.
I spent alot of time being told i couldn't get sober cause i didn't have the right god for the job...
My understanding this time is that regardless of what others may think, say, or act out of.....all i have to do is find my hp and plug in....
I'm not sure about all this at this point, but although i think it is great and there is a time and place to share with each other about our own individual spiritual expereince.....sometimes our individual journey can become a barrier to the newcomer...
Not saying thats the case here at all..I'm thinking about how and what i share in meetings and with a sponsee....
You know the beauty of the program is that it seems more concerned with leading me through the steps to find my HP and get power from it, then in having me figure it all out in my head and present my truth.
I spent alot of time being told i couldn't get sober cause i didn't have the right god for the job...
My understanding this time is that regardless of what others may think, say, or act out of.....all i have to do is find my hp and plug in....
I'm not sure about all this at this point, but although i think it is great and there is a time and place to share with each other about our own individual spiritual expereince.....sometimes our individual journey can become a barrier to the newcomer...
Not saying thats the case here at all..I'm thinking about how and what i share in meetings and with a sponsee....
Adventures In SpaceTime
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Posts: 5,827
Originally Posted by ananda
I guess i'm no longer trying to tie down a definition of my HP....staying open to see what seems to make sense day to day.
You know the beauty of the program is that it seems more concerned with leading me through the steps to find my HP and get power from it, then in having me figure it all out in my head and present my truth.
I spent alot of time being told i couldn't get sober cause i didn't have the right god for the job...
My understanding this time is that regardless of what others may think, say, or act out of.....all i have to do is find my hp and plug in....
You know the beauty of the program is that it seems more concerned with leading me through the steps to find my HP and get power from it, then in having me figure it all out in my head and present my truth.
I spent alot of time being told i couldn't get sober cause i didn't have the right god for the job...
My understanding this time is that regardless of what others may think, say, or act out of.....all i have to do is find my hp and plug in....
Robby
Member
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Lexington, KY
Posts: 18
Originally Posted by Mark75
Ahh, remember, the bacteria and germs undergo natural selection too!
Don't get me started on the whole Genesis vs. Evolution thing. I might not stop! In a good way though.... The God of my understanding allows me to understand as much as I need, no more, no less... It's all good
Don't get me started on the whole Genesis vs. Evolution thing. I might not stop! In a good way though.... The God of my understanding allows me to understand as much as I need, no more, no less... It's all good
I'm glad you've found a source of strength to overcome. You are to be commended for doing so, and I commend you. I only present the facts. If this alters your understanding of a "higher power", its not done so to proselytize, but to inform truth.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,947
AMS... it's all good, I love science, I love theology and I have a higher power, well, I call Him God...
Yea I get what you are saying... but, uh, would you not say that bacterial resistance to antibiotics would be a good model for natural selection?
Well.... we are getting off topic, which happens to be a pretty darned good one, so now I graciously (I hope) bow out of this excellent thread.
Mark
Yea I get what you are saying... but, uh, would you not say that bacterial resistance to antibiotics would be a good model for natural selection?
Well.... we are getting off topic, which happens to be a pretty darned good one, so now I graciously (I hope) bow out of this excellent thread.
Mark
Member
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Lexington, KY
Posts: 18
Originally Posted by ananda
I guess i'm no longer trying to tie down a definition of my HP....staying open to see what seems to make sense day to day.
You know the beauty of the program is that it seems more concerned with leading me through the steps to find my HP and get power from it, then in having me figure it all out in my head and present my truth.
I spent alot of time being told i couldn't get sober cause i didn't have the right god for the job...
My understanding this time is that regardless of what others may think, say, or act out of.....all i have to do is find my hp and plug in....
I'm not sure about all this at this point, but although i think it is great and there is a time and place to share with each other about our own individual spiritual expereince.....sometimes our individual journey can become a barrier to the newcomer...
Not saying thats the case here at all..I'm thinking about how and what i share in meetings and with a sponsee....
You know the beauty of the program is that it seems more concerned with leading me through the steps to find my HP and get power from it, then in having me figure it all out in my head and present my truth.
I spent alot of time being told i couldn't get sober cause i didn't have the right god for the job...
My understanding this time is that regardless of what others may think, say, or act out of.....all i have to do is find my hp and plug in....
I'm not sure about all this at this point, but although i think it is great and there is a time and place to share with each other about our own individual spiritual expereince.....sometimes our individual journey can become a barrier to the newcomer...
Not saying thats the case here at all..I'm thinking about how and what i share in meetings and with a sponsee....
Whatever works for your well being is my prayer! This life is tough, and I certainly don't have it all figured out. Earlier I thought you were indicating you were having trouble identifying a HP, and leaning towards atheism.
In 2007, I reported for work in the morning. Oddly I had slept the entire weekend, and I assumed I had a severe case of gum disease. At work, I was sent home upon arrival. My boss only said, "You are too sick to be here."
With my head hung low, I went home assuming I'd just been fired. I hadn't complained of illness, and I saw no good reason for my boss to send me home. I called my wife from home and told her I was let go. She came home immediately and observed me also, but she demanded we go to the doctor. At the doctor's office, the doctor assessed me and suspected severe illness. Blood tests were ran and it was confirmed I had Acute Myeloid Leukemia. Rushed to a hospital, it was discovered that I'd lost 2/3rds of my blood, and organ shutdown had began.
Doctors had no explanation for why I was alive at that point, but the worse news was that I had a stroke causing a subdural hematoma. Brain surgery was required immediately because leukemic blood was entering my cerebrum. The team of doctors placed my survival below 1%, and predicted that I'd be dead by the next morning. I went from reporting to work to believing I was within moments of death.
I had great doctors. They were instrumental in saving my life, but even great doctors know things that were beyond their ability. I had AML M4eo Inversion 16. Through genetic study it was determined that I also had a rare Y-chromosome inversion (1:100,000 men have it).
46 years of my life I'd lived, and suddenly I have leukemia. Why? The doctors told me that if they could answer that they could cure it, but 46 years earlier it was determined that I'd have this rare Y-chromosome that was a direct inversion of the leukemia that infected me. I can name hundreds of personal events that happened insist an intelligent power greater than me had to be involved. Is it evidence of God? To me, yes. To others, probably rhetoric.
The miracle wasn't that my life was preserved. The miracle was total peace through the valley of death.
Currently Active Users Viewing this Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
