Some Common Misconceptions about Alcoholics Anonmymous
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: The Swish Alps, SF CA
Posts: 2,144
Well since the thread got derailed into yet another third tradition discussion:
Personally I think the 12 and 12 says everything that ought to be said about this entire discussion:
It begins with "For AA is really saying to every serious drinker, "you are a member if you say so. You can declare yourself in, nobody can keep you out."
I agree with that, every serious drinker should have a shot for membership
It ends with "So the hand of providence early gave us a sign that any alcoholic is a member of our society when he says so."
I believe "anda's" should be welcome, and as Bill so eloquently puts it: beggars, tramps, asylum inmates, prisoners, queers, plain crackpots, and fallen women" should all be welcome at a meeting of alcoholics anonymous provided they have a problem with alcohol.
So what if those "real alcoholics" go to a meeting of Alcoholics Anonymous and there are no alcoholics there?
That the meeting is full of OA, NA, SLAA, group therapy Oprah types, who will perform the primary purpose of the meeting then? To carry the message to the alcoholic that still suffers? Who will carry the solution outlined in the book of "the ex problem drinker properly armed with the facts about himself that can entirely win the confidence of a new alcoholic in just a few hours" where will that person be?
At home at a secret underground meeting where the actual solution is offered? Yes, I see that happening all over the country, meetings going underground to be only for alcoholics, meetings not listed in the schedule, not open to sign court cards or for non alcoholics.
So I am just wondering who is "delusoinal"
Bill W?
AA itself?
The Traditions?
Tradition 3 long form? 3.) Our membership ought to include all who suffer from alcoholism.
me?
George E. Valiant, M. D. Class A (nonalcoholic) trustee A.A. General Service Board?
I don't believe in turning people away from AA, but I also believe in attending both open and closed meetings of AA, the closed meetings being for alcoholics only.
It's stated repeatedly we can't be all things to all people, I'm surprised that concept is confusing to some.
Personally I think the 12 and 12 says everything that ought to be said about this entire discussion:
It begins with "For AA is really saying to every serious drinker, "you are a member if you say so. You can declare yourself in, nobody can keep you out."
I agree with that, every serious drinker should have a shot for membership
It ends with "So the hand of providence early gave us a sign that any alcoholic is a member of our society when he says so."
I believe "anda's" should be welcome, and as Bill so eloquently puts it: beggars, tramps, asylum inmates, prisoners, queers, plain crackpots, and fallen women" should all be welcome at a meeting of alcoholics anonymous provided they have a problem with alcohol.
if we start to set requirements for our membership (based on what delusoinal folks tell us) we might miss a few real alcoholics whose lives will depend on membership.
That the meeting is full of OA, NA, SLAA, group therapy Oprah types, who will perform the primary purpose of the meeting then? To carry the message to the alcoholic that still suffers? Who will carry the solution outlined in the book of "the ex problem drinker properly armed with the facts about himself that can entirely win the confidence of a new alcoholic in just a few hours" where will that person be?
At home at a secret underground meeting where the actual solution is offered? Yes, I see that happening all over the country, meetings going underground to be only for alcoholics, meetings not listed in the schedule, not open to sign court cards or for non alcoholics.
So I am just wondering who is "delusoinal"
Bill W?
AA itself?
The Traditions?
Tradition 3 long form? 3.) Our membership ought to include all who suffer from alcoholism.
me?
George E. Valiant, M. D. Class A (nonalcoholic) trustee A.A. General Service Board?
I don't believe in turning people away from AA, but I also believe in attending both open and closed meetings of AA, the closed meetings being for alcoholics only.
It's stated repeatedly we can't be all things to all people, I'm surprised that concept is confusing to some.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Metro Boston
Posts: 26
My home group voted this paragraph in to be read at our open AA meeting. I don't agree with it but it's group consciousness that rules:
Needless to say it causes an uproar from time to time. Like last week when the meeting stopped for 5 minutes because a bleeding decon heckled from the back row because he did not like what was being said from the podium...I wanted to make like an ostrich, and say I don't belong to this group.
If you try to even talk about this reading at the business meeting you will be attacked, by a pack of wild dogs, and black balled and stared at...like I was last week. lol....I was hoping the group would incorporate the bottom paragraph, for those of us who are not pure guzzlers.
The foolishness is still alive and well in AA..sadly. 
...regardless I am not giving up my seat for anyone. 
After a while you say to yourself..is this foolishness really hate? Because it's powerful.
Problems Other Than Alcohol:
What Can Be Done About Them?
by Bill W. -- A.A. Grapevine, February, 1958
Therefore I see no way of making non-alcoholic addicts into AA members. Experience says loudly that we can admit no exceptions, even though drug users and alcoholics happen to be first cousins of a sort. If we persist in trying this, I'm afraid it will be hard on the drug user himself, as well as on AA. We must accept the fact that no non-alcoholic, whatever his affliction, can be converted into an alcoholic AA member.
What Can Be Done About Them?
by Bill W. -- A.A. Grapevine, February, 1958
Therefore I see no way of making non-alcoholic addicts into AA members. Experience says loudly that we can admit no exceptions, even though drug users and alcoholics happen to be first cousins of a sort. If we persist in trying this, I'm afraid it will be hard on the drug user himself, as well as on AA. We must accept the fact that no non-alcoholic, whatever his affliction, can be converted into an alcoholic AA member.
If you try to even talk about this reading at the business meeting you will be attacked, by a pack of wild dogs, and black balled and stared at...like I was last week. lol....I was hoping the group would incorporate the bottom paragraph, for those of us who are not pure guzzlers.
by Bill W. -- A.A. Grapevine, February, 1958
Suppose, though, that we are approached by a drug addict who nevertheless has had a genuine alcoholic history. There was a time when such a person would have been rejected. Many early AAs had the almost comical notion that they were "pure alcoholics" -- guzzlers only, no other serious problems at all. When alcoholic "ex-cons" and drug users first turned up there was much pious indignation. "What will people think?" chanted the pure alcoholics. Happily, this foolishness has long since evaporated.
Suppose, though, that we are approached by a drug addict who nevertheless has had a genuine alcoholic history. There was a time when such a person would have been rejected. Many early AAs had the almost comical notion that they were "pure alcoholics" -- guzzlers only, no other serious problems at all. When alcoholic "ex-cons" and drug users first turned up there was much pious indignation. "What will people think?" chanted the pure alcoholics. Happily, this foolishness has long since evaporated.
...regardless I am not giving up my seat for anyone. After a while you say to yourself..is this foolishness really hate? Because it's powerful.
Don't resist, allow
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: South East of England
Posts: 1,521
Misconception - AA is complicated
No, AA is a simple program of action for those who desire to stop drinking.
If you are new, go to meetings.
Listen to similiarities not differences in stories
Find someone who is working the 12 steps and sober, happy, joyous and free - free from the obsession of alcohol
If that is what you want, ask them to show you how to get it
Follow their directions
I'm an alcoholic. I had a "desire to stop drinking" a long time before admitting I was an alcoholic. AA was open to me and the solution shown to me as I only had a "desire to stop drinking".
When I finally admitted I was an alcoholic, I knew what the solution was.
No, AA is a simple program of action for those who desire to stop drinking.
If you are new, go to meetings.
Listen to similiarities not differences in stories
Find someone who is working the 12 steps and sober, happy, joyous and free - free from the obsession of alcohol
If that is what you want, ask them to show you how to get it
Follow their directions
I'm an alcoholic. I had a "desire to stop drinking" a long time before admitting I was an alcoholic. AA was open to me and the solution shown to me as I only had a "desire to stop drinking".
When I finally admitted I was an alcoholic, I knew what the solution was.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 3,095
Originally Posted by Boleo 
"Don't listen to that kook. All that spiritual crap is optional. Just do what I do. Don't drink & go to meetings".
The answer I have found is to create the fellowship you crave. Create the fellowship you need. Some groups have gone underground to do that. I personally think that's a mistake, but I can hardly blame those who have found that necessary. That move avoids the confrontation, absolutely, but it also cuts off the solution from many who could be helped.
The answer I've found meant starting a group that sticks to the solution and sticks unwaveringly to the principles. It was not popular at first, a handful of die hard members. I still hear a lot of derogatory comments like Boleo's post. So what. The solution is made available to those that want it and need it.
And it's grown into a decent sized group, mostly composed of those who were sponsored by an original member, who have gone on to sponsor others. That's how the fellowship we crave is created. It's also comprised of some old timers who had left the fellowship out of frustration and discouragement over things like Boleo posted.
We consistently carry the message and slowly, over time, it gets heard. Some guy that's been hanging around the mainstream of AA for a year will hit a bottom in 'just not drinking and going to meetings', stumble into our meeting (usually encouraged by another), and hear something they've never heard before in AA. The solution to alcoholism as outlined in our basic text. And they get lit up by it, because it's first depth and weight they've heard after a year of clowning around, trying to not drink by loving each other to death.
Don't resist, allow
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: South East of England
Posts: 1,521
Originally Posted by keithj
The answer I have found is to create the fellowship you crave. Create the fellowship you need. Some groups have gone underground to do that. I personally think that's a mistake, but I can hardly blame those who have found that necessary. That move avoids the confrontation, absolutely, but it also cuts off the solution from many who could be helped.
The answer I've found meant starting a group that sticks to the solution and sticks unwaveringly to the principles.
The answer I've found meant starting a group that sticks to the solution and sticks unwaveringly to the principles.
So how do you do that? Is it by what is said at the start of the meeting about what should be shared?
Go ask the Multivax
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 2,481
"The answer I have found is to create the fellowship you crave. Create the fellowship you need. Some groups have gone underground to do that. I personally think that's a mistake, but I can hardly blame those who have found that necessary. That move avoids the confrontation, absolutely, but it also cuts off the solution from many who could be helped."
I think this is true. Maybe not at first since we're confused and very few have an idea of what kind of fellowship they need versus what they think they want.
For me, the only way to continue to grow was to have a set of AA friends that have sobriety under their belt and have made AA into what works for them. After sticking to the program as it's widely done, a group of us women would meet at someone's house for a meeting, done our way. There were 6-8 of us. We found a way that worked for us. Due to scheduling we don't meet much anymore. But, we have regular contact.
I think this is true. Maybe not at first since we're confused and very few have an idea of what kind of fellowship they need versus what they think they want.
For me, the only way to continue to grow was to have a set of AA friends that have sobriety under their belt and have made AA into what works for them. After sticking to the program as it's widely done, a group of us women would meet at someone's house for a meeting, done our way. There were 6-8 of us. We found a way that worked for us. Due to scheduling we don't meet much anymore. But, we have regular contact.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: The Swish Alps, SF CA
Posts: 2,144
Starting a meeting with the qualities you desire is an answer that has worked for me in the past, I have started a few meetings over the years my favorite being a bonfire meeting on the beach at sunset.
I had to pull a permit with the National Park Service from, appropriately enough a woman named Brandy, It was meant to be a one time deal, about 150 people showed up, and the woman I asked to be secretary was so overcome she had a group conscience on the spot to do the meeting every week, the vote was 149-1 for continuing the meeting with me losing that vote, so began the next 3 years of me packing firewood 300 yards every Friday to build the huge bonfire the meeting required.
The meeting was unforgettable, we had Barbeques before the meeting, kids, and dogs running around, countless times campers from all over the world would come wandering over, find out it was a meeting and share about how badly they needed a meeting at that moment.
The meeting began at sunset and by the time it was over the stars were out, you could just stare into the fire and listen to the soothing sounds of the shares over the gentle lapping of the waves on the beach. Talk about a conscious contact.
As somebody cough Gandhi cough said sometimes you have to be the change you want to see in the world.
The meeting lasted 2 years after I moved away.
What a way to spend a Friday night to start my weekend
I had to pull a permit with the National Park Service from, appropriately enough a woman named Brandy, It was meant to be a one time deal, about 150 people showed up, and the woman I asked to be secretary was so overcome she had a group conscience on the spot to do the meeting every week, the vote was 149-1 for continuing the meeting with me losing that vote, so began the next 3 years of me packing firewood 300 yards every Friday to build the huge bonfire the meeting required.
The meeting was unforgettable, we had Barbeques before the meeting, kids, and dogs running around, countless times campers from all over the world would come wandering over, find out it was a meeting and share about how badly they needed a meeting at that moment.
The meeting began at sunset and by the time it was over the stars were out, you could just stare into the fire and listen to the soothing sounds of the shares over the gentle lapping of the waves on the beach. Talk about a conscious contact.
As somebody cough Gandhi cough said sometimes you have to be the change you want to see in the world.
The meeting lasted 2 years after I moved away.
What a way to spend a Friday night to start my weekend
Member
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Kansas
Posts: 3,937
Originally Posted by intention
Hi Keith,
So how do you do that? Is it by what is said at the start of the meeting about what should be shared?
So how do you do that? Is it by what is said at the start of the meeting about what should be shared?
Last month had a guest from another area stop at my home meeting. When a topic was asked for, he sugested "unmanagability". Great, except when he expounded he wanted to whine about how his wife is unmanagable. He looked like someone punched him in the gut as the topic of the meeting became the 3rd step complete with reading from the big book about how everyone wants to be the director. It was nothing personal, but it was brutal. Given that "solutions" is the name of our meeting he did have fair warning. He hasn't been back, but if he wants the solution he know where to find it.
That's the dicipline needed to keep a good meeting going. When you share at a meeting you are doing the 12th step. When you wander away from that, it all goes south.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: scotland
Posts: 1,493
tues night meeting i go to (closed,all solution).8 months ago there was sometimes 2 folk there with an average of about 5.there was 22 this tues night.the message is filtering through to some folk that have been around for ages hanging with the folk that say "dont drink,go to meetings".i also go to a thurs lunch meeting.this was all drunkalogs and alot of heavy drinkers.half a dozen of us go and share the same as we always do.God was in the room this week.unconditional love.sorry off topic from opener.feels like there is certainly a shift going on at the moment in the meetings.i moaned like an sob for months about the drunklaogs etc.....i was gently persuaded this wasnt the way.....keep sharing the message you need to hear.its the truth and its attractive,folk will follow.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 4
A group vs a meeting
Actually meetings and groups are not the same thing. A group holds meetings. So in A Vision For You a meeting is described this way: 'it became customary to set apart one night a week for a meeting to be attended by anyone or everyone interested in a spiritual way of life. Aside from fellowship and sociability, the prime object was to provide a time and place where new people might bring their problems'.
Meetings included any and all who were interested, not just alcoholics. And newcomers talking about their problems was the 'prime object' of the meeting! Membership in the group itself however was and is exclusive to alcoholics. Many meetings today are not any where near as open as the one described in the Big Book, where all you needed to be was interested. Some still are.
Meetings included any and all who were interested, not just alcoholics. And newcomers talking about their problems was the 'prime object' of the meeting! Membership in the group itself however was and is exclusive to alcoholics. Many meetings today are not any where near as open as the one described in the Big Book, where all you needed to be was interested. Some still are.
Sober Alcoholic
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 3,539
Originally Posted by Phineas010111
Actually meetings and groups are not the same thing. A group holds meetings. So in A Vision For You a meeting is described this way: 'it became customary to set apart one night a week for a meeting to be attended by anyone or everyone interested in a spiritual way of life. Aside from fellowship and sociability, the prime object was to provide a time and place where new people might bring their problems'.
Meetings included any and all who were interested, not just alcoholics. And newcomers talking about their problems was the 'prime object' of the meeting! Membership in the group itself however was and is exclusive to alcoholics. Many meetings today are not any where near as open as the one described in the Big Book, where all you needed to be was interested. Some still are.
Meetings included any and all who were interested, not just alcoholics. And newcomers talking about their problems was the 'prime object' of the meeting! Membership in the group itself however was and is exclusive to alcoholics. Many meetings today are not any where near as open as the one described in the Big Book, where all you needed to be was interested. Some still are.
I love that quote from a vision for you. Particularly where it says that the meetings were open to all who were interested in a spiritual way of life. It's clear what the focus of meetings was, and that they were very inclusive.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Sydney, NSW
Posts: 104
I think it is somewhat misguided to advocate a personal interpretation of AA and the associated literature as being "correct". In fact I believe the Big Book was written as a guide full of suggestions and recounted experience and wasn't designed as the fence posts for some gate to be built upon it.
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Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Here, EH!!!
Posts: 1,337
I like the way it was originally written.
AN HONEST DESIRE
on another note, what I read.
We like to stick to the traditions, but I have seen it time and time again where if someone in the group really wants you gone, just blame the building owners for banning ya. People sleeping in the rooms because they are homeless is quite common. Around here its an ego thing, or a pride issue because no homeless man/woman around here ever goes hungry, nor do they have to sleep outside. They can always get a mat, and a full stomach. The one that I am used to hearing is that AA is a religious program, I guess it comes from the word God used in the steps, The Oxford Group and the prayers. But the key is willingness and open mindedness. The big one that I dont like too much is people tend to seperate the alcoholic from other diseases. When someone has cancer all is concerned for them and their family, but for the alcoholic they think its an issue of will power, or poor moral fibre. It actually takes a lot of will power to drink, be puking up a storm, headache like crazy, shaking like a leaf, yet still get to work because you are broke and need the next pay cheque to booze-er-up.
AN HONEST DESIRE
on another note, what I read.
We like to stick to the traditions, but I have seen it time and time again where if someone in the group really wants you gone, just blame the building owners for banning ya. People sleeping in the rooms because they are homeless is quite common. Around here its an ego thing, or a pride issue because no homeless man/woman around here ever goes hungry, nor do they have to sleep outside. They can always get a mat, and a full stomach. The one that I am used to hearing is that AA is a religious program, I guess it comes from the word God used in the steps, The Oxford Group and the prayers. But the key is willingness and open mindedness. The big one that I dont like too much is people tend to seperate the alcoholic from other diseases. When someone has cancer all is concerned for them and their family, but for the alcoholic they think its an issue of will power, or poor moral fibre. It actually takes a lot of will power to drink, be puking up a storm, headache like crazy, shaking like a leaf, yet still get to work because you are broke and need the next pay cheque to booze-er-up.
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Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: PA
Posts: 12,000
Is Alcoholism a Disease?
It's a very interesting read. I have no opinion one way or another. Well, maybe...
It's a very interesting read. I have no opinion one way or another. Well, maybe...
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