intention

I have been in OA since 1999 and I have sponsored a few in the past.

One month ago today I took my last drink of alcohol. While I knew how the steps worked I have come out of this relapse with fresh eyes. I have been working the 12 Steps like my life depends on it (this relapse left me in no doubt of that), I've been doing a lot of reading, talking, also really studying the steps again, and learning all the time. And I thought I knew it all, lol.

The recovery I'm experiencing today is like I never had before. Happy, joyous, free. I'm really grateful I'm an alcoholic because I know these last few weeks have only been a glimpse of what my life is going to be like in the future....and what I have had so far has been amazing. To think only January 2nd I was crying into my glass of wine because I detested the stuff but had to drink it.

I'm come a long way in a short time but I know there is much to do. I have always suspected that I have a problem with co-dependency. Well I have had a couple of eye openers on this in the last week. I have been reading on SR about it and have ordered a book to learn more. To be honest, I don't quite understand the problem and how it shows itself in my life - my guess it that I am going to find out that I have been behaving in ways I don't even realise. You can't apply a solution, until you know what the problem is, so I know there is much to do.

So my question is about sponsorship. I felt very comfortable sponsoring before and now I'm going to AA meetings now. There is very little talk of the 12 Steps in meetings, its more that AA meetings keep you sober.

I have been mindful of sharing the solution (to do my own 12 step work) in the meetings and conversations. To give you an example at a meeting last week, I shared about working the Steps, someone else said they just read step 1 every day and don't worry about the rest and that was it on the Steps.


Consequently I am finding people ask me about how I work it. Last night someone asked me to sponsor them. She is 4 years sober (not working the steps), she knows I am 4 weeks. I was thrown by the question and was sort of vague in response. I didn't want to say yes but I didn't want to shut the door either. I want to help, I know I can help........I know I need to help for me but I also know that I have much more to look at in terms of my own recovery.

I have a feeling another couple will ask me the same question again soon. I hope that doesn't sound too much like my ego talking - I just know that if I was a newcomer in the meetings I go to, I wouldn't know of anyone woman to approach to be a potential sponsor, if you know what I mean.

In the last 24 hours I have handed this over to God as I don't know what do to but I would be interested in hearing any thoughts or guidance. He has a strange way of talking to me through other people

Charmie

hello there intention.
share what you want to hear at meetings.
i went back to AA at the begining of last year,it was all about staying away from the first drink (is that not impossible if i am powerless? ) and going to lots of meetings,oh and calling folk.i did this every day for a month,and guess what i picked up.
i decided there and then that this wasnt going to work,my "solution" to life (booze) was gone,i needed something to replace it.i needed the spiritual awakening as a result of the steps.
i officially finished going through the steps with my sponsor a few months ago now and i have a sponsee who was around AA for 12 years and never had a sponsor before,she returned after an absence and after seeing me twice asked me to be her sponsor.
i dont take credit,God does for me what i cant do for myself and i am just a messenger.
youve done the right thing and asked God for an answer,He will put people in your path,its not up to us to pick and choose i believe.
i choose which meetings to go to now,but i havnt barred myself from any.there is one meeting that i have continued to go to and share the truth and it is changing.
not because of me,because of the truth,you cant fake that.
share what you want to hear.

FanofJoeMcQ

Keep going. The message of recovery is there. Sometimes it takes awhile to hear it. I found speaker meetings most informative. I just told a sponsee, to measure the quality of soberiety of a person by what that person shares in several meetings not just one. She was complaining that people her age are toxic. Possible. So what? Make friends with other people besides our own age group....

I also, encourage my sponsees to share their experience for 10 minutes, and the rest of their story is the message of strength and hope. (the steps) .... we have to live in the solution. Not every person who speaks knows how to do it. We learn as we grow.

I am glad you are in AA. Its wonderful to have 'sibling' 12 step fellowship. I am a NA cross over and have many family in OA (in-laws). I am also an ACOA. The meat of the program is in how we work it OUTSIDE the rooms! Thanks for posting.

BP44

I would suggest having a recovered alcoholic take you through the Big Book before you sponsor others. If I understand correctly, you have experience with the steps from an OA identification, but it sounds like you do not have experience being guided through the steps by an alcoholic. If that is the case, I think you really need to have an experience with the steps as an alcoholic.

freya

Personally, I would not be comfortable sponsoring someone through the Steps in any program in which I had not worked the Steps myself...and I can't tell for certain from your post if you have ever worked the Steps in AA or not.

However, it seems, from what you've written, that there is in your area a dearth of people who have actually worked the Steps and are cognizant the fact that those Steps constitute both the Program and "the Solution" and that some people are drawn to you because they sense that you have a strong general understanding and of the Steps and personal experience working them, even if only within the context of a different program.

This is, obviously, a serious problem, not only for these other folks, but also for you, if you indeed find yourself in the position of needing to work the Steps in AA, for the first time or for any subsequent time.

I know that there used to be some folks here on SR who attended meetings in which the members worked the Steps together as a group. I don't know if there might be some on-line information available on how one might organize and run such a meeting or not, but you could look. Or perhaps you could contact the main AA office in New York City and ask for help/guidance? If you could get such information and then find even one "oldtimer" with lots of Step experience and a good BB focus who might agree to lead the group at least for the first time through, that might be a way for you to help others and get some of the experience and support you yourself need, too.

Worst case scenario, I suppose you could get a group together yourself and just work your way through the BB and the Steps together....with maybe the help of some good Step-study and BB speaker tapes. I mean, I know it's probably a bit scary, and it would be nice to have some guidance, but, after all, Bill and Bob and the other first "AAs" had to make due with a lot less when they started out on this thing.

Good luck with this. It must be somewhat scary and very frustrating to be in the position of knowing what the solutions is and what you need to do but not be able to find other people in the fellowship who have done it before you and recognize its necessity.

This is a tough situation, and I'm very glad that you already have a good connection with your HP to help you through it.

freya

FanofJoeMcQ

Whoops. I missed that. Freya good points.

Slag

I suggest you get a sponsor for yourself. Let your sponsor guide you through the 12 Steps of AA. Perhaps then it would be a good time for you to sponsor others.

There are many "guided" meetings regrading the steps and other topics such as the BB, beginners meeting emphasizing the first three steps and such.

Music

1. No one should sponsor another person until (at least) they have worked the steps themselves. Working the steps in OA does not constitute working the steps in AA. Different mind set.

2. No one should sponsor another person unless he/she has a sponsor. The best way to learn how to sponsor is by having a sponsor.

3. Sponsoring someone isn't about getting him/her sober. It's about me staying sober. Their sobriety is up to them and their relationship with their Higher Power.

Charmie

ditto what freya,slag and music said.it is very dangerous ground to suddenly start sponsoring folk if you dont have that vital spiritual experience through the steps as an alcoholc.in fact i would say it is a complete no-no.
but i like your enthusiasm for the programme.
my sposonr nealry didnt sponsor me,because she had just sacked her sponsor for want of a better word,"luckily" she got another one in time and became my sponsor.
she will not sponsor unless she has a sponsor herself and i have followed suit.

intention

Thanks for your replies everyone.

Just to clarify, the steps in OA are exactly the same steps in AA. There is additional literature, such as a workbook but I never used it. I was with the BB all the way.

When I worked the steps in OA I worked them from P59 in the Big Book, also from the AA 12 and 12, I studied the BB extensively. The only thing that I changed was one word - food for alcohol. Now I just add in food, next to the word alcohol. My sponsor was AA and taught me the steps and the BB from the way he had been taught in AA. I do have a sponsor now.

I don't have a desire to sponsor anyone at the moment as I am busy doing what I need to do for my recovery and I do know that I am effectively doing Step 12 carrying the message. What concerns me is that I don't want to put people off if they ask me and I say no (perhaps that's the people pleaser in me and fear of where else are they going to go).

I suppose what I am asking is how do I say 'No at this moment in time' to someone who is still suffering and still encourage them to work for their recovery?

intention

That's exactly how I feel. The message/solution doesn't change how long you are been sober or working the steps. If is it the right message it works. I can well understand someone being in 12 years and not hearing/wanting to hear the solution before now.


I have been practising acceptance about the meetings I go to. I am limited being a single mum who can't get out at night. I have only been for 4 weeks so I have yet to hear everyone share and then yet to hear them share again and again.

But I do know that God has put me in those meetings for a reason and if they do change then that is how it is supposed to be when the truth and the message of the solution is spread.

Thanks for your reply, Charmie.

yeahgr8

My sponsor said last night, when i spoke to him as we were talking about the 12th step that i can help others to do the steps even though i don't sposnor them by telling them about what has happened to me and how it has affected me, how my life is today, go for coffees etc (which i do anyway)...It's been recommended to me that i wait a year until sponsoring and that, along with every other recommendation/suggestion, makes absolute sense to me.

I finished all the steps in about the first 8 weeks and a guy that has been in and out for years obviously noticed something different and asked me to sponsor him, i said i dont have enough experience to actually sponsor you but lets go for a coffee and maybe i can talk to my sponsor and see if he can help you like he has me.

shaun00

i enjoy your passion intention..
and i also have the same experience with some meeting you have..

freya said it all really..

pretty much the same would happen to me in early recovery in my area.
i attracted attention because i was a serial relaspser and that suddenly started sharing about the BB and the steps and wasnt drinking..

i was ask to sponsor plenty of times....

my sponsor said at the time that it would be great for my huge ego but would do little for said newcomer...so put them onto someone with a full picture rather than someone with just a whiff of whats to come.

he also suggested........actually "told me" to share my experience with the step im on.......rather than talk about something i have no experience of..

hope this helps.

ICantHeCan

Intention, to some degree I agree with a lot of what has been already said here. If I had a little over a month of sobriety and this was being asked of me, I'd be running to my sponsor and above all ... I'd be pausing, watching, asking, turning to my HP for some indication as to what He/She/It required of me but then again I might not because at a month the fog hadn't cleared for me to consider a Higher Power.

Nevertheless, when the BB was written those 100 men and women who had recovered from a seemingly hopeless state of body, mind and spirit had less than 5 years sobriety -- and initially there were no formal steps! As a matter of fact you were required to go through the steps before joining the fellowship and, at some of the meetings around here, I can see why -- people get caught up in the fellowship and the meetings that they forget about working -- living -- the steps!

Which brings me to a point that Freya made...

A few years ago some members of my home group suggested that we go through the steps together because many either didn't have or were having difficulty finding a sponsor. At the time I fell into the latter group; while I was feeling desperate to find a sponsor I also wasn't necessarily sure I wanted every member of my home group to hear my 5th step because the model that was being proposed required every member to do all twelve steps right along side of everyone else and the members never left a member behind who may have been struggling with a particular step. From what I understand its used informally in other 12 step programs and in AA here or there in the US. The name of this model eludes me at the moment but I will ask one of the home group members that suggested it and post it here in this thread later in the week.

I look at this kinda like the question about going into situations where there will be drinking and the question I ask myself: How spiritually fit do I feel to be there... and in this case -- How spiritually fit do I feel to be sponsoring?? I have to have it before I can give it away... and if I'm not living God's power then I don't have it to give away.

**emphasis added**

Even if you have been attending OA meetings, (1) if you were truly working and [B]living[B] the 12 steps of Alcoholics Anonymous, and (2) if your relationship was right with your Higher Power, you should not have drank -- the BB tells us this ... at certain times we will have no mental defense against drink whereby God is our ONLY defense. I needed a new way of life (aka living) to address my four fold illness... and that way requires a SOLID understanding of my HP and His will for me... hence -- pause, watch, ask, turn but I have realized I can't get there just by working the steps -- I need to live to them!

I live the 12 steps starting with the cover page because the cement and cornstone of the steps along with many promises occur PRIOR to page 59. As a matter of fact on page 60 its states that we now commence to working step 3 -- no where in the prior chapters does it mention any "step" except in the enumeration of the 12 steps in How It Works.

Before I bolt out the door late for work, I'm one of these alcoholics who feel rather strongly about maintaining a level of autonomy between AA and other 12 step programs especially when it comes to sponsorship. Intention, please take the words here seriously... pause, watch, ask, turn!!!

__________________________________________________ ______
*Quotes & Paraphrases from Alcoholics Anonymous, 1st Edition

keithj

I'll one up you, Charmie. Share the message you need to hear. To be sober, feel alive, and connected to the world, I need a vital spiritual experience happening in my life in real time. So that's what I try to share.

If all I need to have that result is hanging out with sober people and learning some new behavior patterns, that's what I'll share. Which explains a lot, really. That's an authentic, valid experience for many in the rooms of AA. That's all they need, so that's what they share.

keithj

I tend to agree with what I've heard from freya, trucker, yeahgr8, and others. There is a tremendous amount of good somebody fairly new, who is hooked up with the solution, can do even though they might lack a bit of experience to feel comfortable taking someone through the Steps.

I, too, feel that I have absolutely no business leading someone else through the Steps in a fellowship in which I have not taken the Steps myself. Even if I feel connected to the solution, I wouldn't presume to guide an Al-Anon through that process unless I had done it myself.

Like many other things, it comes back to willingness for me. If I am unwilling to go through that process myself, how can I expect another to do it? It doesn't matter if I've been sober for a while. I still have to experience that desperation necessary for absolute surrender. That's the biggest help I can offer a newcomer. Help him find that surrender. And I just don't think I can do that if I don't have that experience.

I was talking to a guy last night about this very thing. He just turned 19, 2 months sober, is nearly through his amends while practicing Steps 10-11 on a daily basis. He asked me if I thought he has had a spiritual awakening and if he was ready to sponsor another.

I told him that I honestly can't tell him. It's obvious that some vast rearrangement has happened to him. That's plain for anyone to see. I told him that if he will find an answer to that if he earnestly seeks it. So that he will know instead of being told.

I warned him that he will take some flak from the fellowship for sponsoring with only 2 months sobriety, but that we aren't too concerned with flak from the fellowship. We're concerned about the truth and fitting ourselves to be of maximum service. I reminded him that Ebby only had 2 months sober when he sat down with Bill W.

And I invited him along for some front line 12 Step work so that he can gain some experience. And I shed a couple tears and thanked God for this 19 year old blessing in my life.

Charmie

thank you for the correction keith! need,,,,,,,alot different to want.

andyaddict

Eh, go ahead, I suppose you've already disclosed what you're about and length of time in AA right? So agree to be a "temporary" sponsor - might be the only sponsor this person gets - who are you to deny them your experience, knowledge, and service?

Sometimes I wish some program gurus wouldn't over complicate the differences of using a drug, alcohol, him/her, dollar, or hamburger shaped peg to fill the God shaped hole within us. It's all about integrating some spiritual principles in our lives to help us outgrow the fear manifested within that kept us locked in that obsessive / compulsive behavior, whatever that behavior is.

Why not identify at a deeper level of thoughts, feelings, and problems rather than individual symptoms of our disease? I feel the ones that focus on what or how much you used are those locked in the illness, but when we focus on what we're going to do about it is when we have begun living in the wellness.

a

Clutch B

Saying "No" doesn't mean "Stay away from me and never look my way again".

Exchange phone numbers. Talk. Share from the heart. Be a newcomer with them. Make it more of a comrade relationship than a sponsor relationship.

You can still be a tremendous encouragement without being a sponsor.

intention

Hi yeahgr8

What your sponsor said last night, seems like a really good way of handling it. Thanks.