intention

I am glad I am in AA too.......never thought I would say that and I agree, it is about working it outside of the rooms.Thanks

intention

That's an interesting....it does explain a lot. Thanks, Keith

intention

That's good advice, thanks. Friendship is something which is good for me - I have been isolated a lot in the last year.

RobbyRobot

I agree with all the above from Music. Music is a rock. I though do not hold as a rule that to be a sponsor one must have a sponsor. They certainly must have had a sponsor sometime in their sobriety....

The best way to learn being a sponsor is of course by having one. When you get into the higher years though, it means less to have a sponsor then it does in the early years of ones sobriety. Its a personal thing though, of course, depending on our own ESH.

I just don't think it should be an explicit rule that to be one one must have one.

Just my ESH.

RobbyRobot

intention

Hi Andy,

Yes, I have been open. They know I got sober a month ago.

After the initial suprise at the question, this was my first thought. This person said to me that I had told them things about them that they did not know and no-one had told them.....and this was after 4 years. I was only talking about character defects and self-will, the stuff we learn in the Steps/BB.

While I may feel comfortable with the process of sponsoring, I don't feel comfortable with the timing. After pausing on this and asking for guidance, I feel able to handle the subject better next time. I just felt my response was a clumsy 'No' and that is not helpful, particularly when someone is really quite desperate.

Yes, I was taught this is not a complicated issue with different substances/different reasons. It's all the same problem coming from the same spirtual void and the same spiritual Power can fill the whole thing.

Only one half of the first step mentions alcohol. The rest of the 11 and half steps are nothing to do with alcohol.

When I am working step 4 in AA, I don't say which glass of wine caused the resentment. I say, which part of self caused the resentment.

When I am working step 4 in OA, I don't say which slice out of the loaf caused the resentment. I say, which part of self caused the resentment.

I don't make amends in step 9 in AA because I have stolen booze because I am powerless over alcohol. I make amends because I have stolen booze because I am dishonest, selfish, self-seeking.

I don't make amends in step 9 in OA because I have stolen food from your cupboard because I am powerless over food. I make amends because I have stolen food because I am dishonest, selfish, self-seeking.

I do step 11 every day and food or alcohol don't even enter the equation as I don't think about them any more. I don't have to do step 11 twice, one for OA and one for AA. I just review my day, my thoughts/actions etc, pray, meditate.

The same applies for all the other steps, every day. The only time I do something different or work a step "twice" is before I even open my eyes in the morning and I say to God that I am powerless over alcohol and food and then I go on to pray and meditate.

I bought 6 coats this Winter, 4 of which I had to take back to the shop reluctantly. I still have 8 coats in my wardrobe and this is after selling 2 on ebay. The solution is not selling them on ebay nor willing myself not to buy them, the solution is working the 12 steps.

I have shared a lot on this stuff recently and how I am aware that my shopping/neediness/compulsions are just the same problem as my alcoholism and it all comes from the same spiritual void, which can be filled with the same spiritual Power. I've had people identifying but telling me that they had no idea that their compulsions had any connection with their alcoholism.

With the problems I have with alcohol, food, co-dependancy it has given me a lot of insight into the deeper level, as you say - the bigger picture. Twice in my life my sponsor turned up at just the right time when I needed them. I don't think it was any accident that they were also AA/OA/NA. God knew exactly what I needed.

intention

Hi Trucker

I hear about people sponsoring, I hear about people changing their sponsors but I don't hear about people turning down requests from people who want sponsoring.

Perhaps I should have asked, who has turned down people who have asked to be sponsored and how did you do it. So, yes it does help. Thanks.

intention

It was a beautiful meeting today with almost every share about the solution and how life is living in it.......it was like recovery was infectious in there. For the most part people seemed to stay seated in the room instead of the usual up and down and in and out........they seemed captivated by what was being shared.

Then we got news that someone had died this morning. A reminder of how deadly this illness is. And why we spend a few moments each meeting to think of those still suffering.

Ananda

I recently was asked to sponsor a newcomer...I told her I didn't feel I had enough time under my belt to do that, but that I would be happy to talk with her anytime and help her get to meetings since she had no transportaiton.

It wasn't a big deal.....

I have been in aa 25 years and have 1 mos sober....i've worked the step various ways over the years....

To me...obviously I don't yet have an answer to share...I obviously missed something or the AA program of recovery doesn't work for me...one or the other...

So, until I believe I have an AA program that I can share with a newcomer, I need to try and not let my ego about my previous stints of sobriety and working the steps step in...

Boleo

Keep it focused:

H + B = S

Humility (a clear recognition of what & who we really are)
+ Benevolence (helping others)
= Serenity (Peace of mind, joy & sense of purpose)

AABoston

Humility was not a fun experience when I came through the doors, especially to an alcoholic like me who thought he had the answers. Not only my answers, your answers too. My thinking was twisted. I figured if I got a got a good job, bought some nice cloths, gained a couple of pounds, changed my sheets on the bed once a week, and then everything would be ok. As a matter of fact I thought I was so well, I could change the format of a meeting, and start talking about what I thought would be best for AA and the group...after all, I use to be sober years ago but I'm just coming back in..

That was over 15 years ago. I am glad people in AA could tolerate me. My sponsor told me to take the cotton out of my ears and put it in my mouth. I had no clue how to stay sober, never mind talk about recovery...what I did in the past did not work. He was right. My best thinking got me here.

The most important lesson for me:

"I had to get stupid to get sober".

yeahgr8

Thats a great attitude and action to take! The thing i noticed in the meetings i got sober in were the old timers steering newcomers away from people who seemed to share in an excellent manner and had all the answers, when i would ask why they would say because x has been around for years and years only had their last drink x weeks ago, stay away from them...

Ago

Good thread

Basically it comes down to in step 12 it says having had a spiritual awakening as the result of the steps, this is what we "pass on" in AA, is how we got to step 12, and if Spirituality is the ability to get our minds off ourselves, or a personality change sufficient to bring about recovery from alcoholism, that's what sponsorship is, is giving that away, and showing someone else how we achieved that, we don't tell them what to do, we show them what WE did, so if we haven't gotten to step 12 and had the spiritual awakening what are we passing on?

I can read flight manuals for planes, I have been on hundreds of flights, I have seen the pilot on every plane I have ever been on, I have even watched them fly the plane, however just because I have watched someone fly a plane doesn't mean I am a Pilot, so it's best if I don't try to teach someone else how to fly if I don't know how to do it myself, or it's likely we'll both crash.

When we talk about "our experience" in AA we aren't talking about something we saw someone else do or read about, we are referring to something that has happened to us.

This is what we pass on in sponsorship, having a spiritual awakening as the result of the steps

The road to sobriety is a simple journey for confused people with a complicated disease.

BB 1st ed

andyaddict

Nice, solid response. Now, last question:

How long did Bill W have sober before he went to sponsor another alcoholic?

a

intention

Well he was still lying in hospital when he considered it.

"Faith without works is dead"

Then he and his wife set about with enthusiam to help alcoholics to a solution of their problems even though at the time he was "plagued by waves of self-pity and resentment"


So the answer is straight away.

I get it

Thanks, Andy

andyaddict

<wink>

a

Ananda

Of course Bill had also worked the steps with Ebby (in the earlier AA form) prior to laying in the hospital bed. He had a DEEP and FULL understanding of his alchoholism and had gone through the processs in relationship to his Alcoholism with another alchoholic prior to helping others.

intention

Absolutely, he had worked steps 1 through to 11 and was still lying in his hospital bed when he considered working step 12.

Ago

Those guys had it easy, they only had 6 steps and 4 absolutes, personally I think Bill and Bob were MOTR at best ya know?

I mean Bob started on step 9 and Bill started on step 12, WTH is that, I'd toss em out of the meeting and then tell everyone the correct way to work the "one and only true program of Alcoholics Anonymous"

I got my first sponsee at 30 days and had to work my butt off to stay ahead of him in the steps, he stayed sober 5 years with me as his sponsor, I didn't start sponsoring those with more time then me in the program until I had been around a few years though, I think when I had 5? years I had sponsees with 12 and 17 years going through the steps again, a lot of that was just passing on what I had learned from incredible sponsorship I got lucky enough to have and methods learned at Joe and Charlies.

Really all I was was a highly effective Parrot as everyone I have ever sponsored long term has more time then me lol

intention

However easy it was, Bill's life certainly was not going to well before he worked what he did work,lol


I've ordered Joe's book on sponsorship. I'm looking forward to reading what he has to say.

It's certainly cheaper than Chuck C's book .....they are selling it for £66 ($103) from amazon for a new one, that's without import duties and handling fees.

Ago

My tongue was so far in my cheek it was coming out my ear when I wrote that about Bill and Bob, I was just having some fun, that book, those that wrote it, and Bill and Bob were all incredibly humble, I find it amusing that so many of their disciples and converts lack that quality, that so many people shove a book down peoples throats that state "we realize we know only a little" and all we have is a way that worked for us.

you can listen to both Chuck C and Joe and Charlie for free at silkworth dot net