Freedom1990

Liz, that was profound! Cunning, baffling, and powerful is the nature of the disease.

SerenityGirl

Well I really have to stand up for the AA program. My husband and I have been sober many years now, and it is because of the AA program. Also my Father was sober 10 years before he passed away with the help of the program. My brother has been sober many years also with the program and I have known many others that change their life for the better because of AA. What I have loved about the program is that everyone is welcomed no matter what their believe is or isn't. This program has meant the world to me because it has given my family and friends a new sober way of living...as far as I'm concerned it has had amazing success over all the years in changing peoples lives and giving them hope!!!!!

RufusACanal

For many reasons that have been discussed in this thread and others is the capacity of honesty on the part of the suffering Alcoholic. The success rate was higher back in the 30's and 40's from conversations I have had with older members who went through those days for two primary reasons.

A. There was no single program of recovery that targeted the Alcoholic and that showed immediate results.
B. The Alcoholics of the that time were truly at the end of the road; they had no options besides sanitariums, churches, jail, prison or death.

Today, the advances in mental health and in the general medical community as a whole, Alcoholics have the opportunity to get off the rollercoaster much sooner. Is it a plus, to be thrown a life preserver sooner? For some yes, but for the real Alcoholic I do not believe so. Relapse is for me, a direct result of my incapacity to be honest with myself and nothing else. Now, you may be different, I can only speak for me. My daily recovery is contingent upon self-honesty first.

Best to all!

tomvlll

There is another thread on this forum where somebody does a pretty good job of rendering as pretty uselsess any AA success/failure stats.


I know one of AA's traditions is singleness of purpose, but it is my opinion that AA's deal gives one a better QULAITY of of sober life, as opposed to just not drinking.

Pinkcuda

I took the liberty of looking at the member list of SR. Most of them are gone. Maybe SR only has a 3% success rate. Does that mean we shouldn't us SR as a resource??
Just something to think about before disregarding AA because of it's success or failure rate.

CarolD

My perssonal success in AA is 100%
Over the years ...I've seen AA miracles
all around.

Side by side...forward we go....

BP44

Angelina Jolie comes to SR in a leather halter top? See, this is the kind of stuff I miss when I resign from the debating society.

AMLSurvivor

I am not an alcoholic, nor do I pretend to have all the answers at 48 years old. My father is a habitual drunkard, and yes, "we the family" enabled him for many years. What I do know is that my Dad failed A.A. repeatedly. Personally I think A.A.'s 3rd step is where most people stumble.

"God" in a country that suggests no religious bias in our government and laws is undefined. My God is very real to me (Elohim), but "gravity" could be god by the A.A. definition because its a higher power than me.

Lets assume everyone is Christian for a moment, and God is defined equally. Submitting our will to God completely is a failure of non-alcoholics. I had the privilege of nearly dying, and I realized at the brink of death that whether I submit or not that: God's will is going to take place regardless of what I think, but God only wills the best for me to meet His purpose, and I don't always adhere in my ignorance. God will not force His will on me until my death.

If non-alcoholics fail to adhere to God's will, and stumbling A.A. members do also, then isn't step three set up to fail? Maybe it would be better written to say, "Made a decision to avoid alcohol completely," because this would be the equivalent will of a good and loving God. I make this point because the alcoholic already feels they are outside of God's will, and with the current wording doesn't this scream "YOU FAILED AGAIN" and hold the alcoholic to a higher sociological test (feeling of condemnation) than the non-alcoholic? We don't know God's perfect will, and thus I should not judge my father in light of God's will. In rewriting the third step, the failure is at least placed in the proper place.

I know I'll be told that I don't really understand the A.A. approach, and I may not, but in my experience A.A. was ineffective. Depression added to depression as failure upon failure occurred. Dad is still a habitual drunkard. My prayers are with my father, but he has given up on life.

intention

Welcome Amlsurvivor. This is an old discussion you have replied to.

AA does work - those of us who live happy, sober lives by working the program are proof of that. But, unfortunately, not everyone recovers in AA we know that. I can understand why you feel the way you do - I am sorry to hear about your father. Our thoughts and prayers are with you and your family.

AMLSurvivor

I agree! Keywords are "working the program," yet do you see that even the non-alcoholic fails by step three? Certainly I encourage anyone who has found a life of sobriety, and I certainly would never discourage intentionally. I am writing a research paper for school, and the thesis is "Sociological enabling of alcoholism - we think we're helping when we are in fact hurting."

DayTrader

LOL.... there's just GOTTA be better sources than a group of alkie's who've demonstrated they can't manage their own lives.

We may mistakenly like to play "junior therapist" but there are probably better sources of info on the net for that subject.

-- This kinda reminds me of how ppl at tables ask for marital advice and, as everyone around the circle shares, hardly a one-of-'em hasn't been divorced once, twice or more.



And finally, step 3 says we made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God.....

RufusACanal

AA never once failed me, though I failed many times.

Pinkcuda

That about sums it up. AA doesn't pass or fail.
People do.
Bottom line is in How it works.
Here's what we did. If you want what we have and are willing to go to any length to get it then you are ready to take certain steps.
AA is the steps and they are not suggestions any more than AA itself is a suggestion.
If you are here to do what we did we welcome you and will offer anything we can
If you are here to do anything else, don't tell anyone it's A.A. It's not!
So therefore, to come up with any type of success or failure rate is incomprehensible.
Mainly because the bulk of the people in a meeting are not actually "In AA"
They're just keeping the seat warm for someone a little more willing to take the program as it was intended.

Rosso

This is my first post in here. The idea of statistics; in my view; is not a good one. For one thing it leaves out those of us who do not go to meetings or who leave a group. I do not attend meetings anymore. However, through working the 12 step program I have not had the desire to drink for 29 years.

Now, there is a big difference between "being sober" and not wanting to drink alcohol. I don't want to drink alcohol anymore; sounds simplistic; but try to convince a person who believes that the only way to keep from drinking is to attend regular meetings, get a "sponsor", and be loyal to "the group" is really the AA program.

I go back to meetings every so often to see what is happening in AA; and it is depressing. I was at an online meeting today and the people sharing; told how important it was to have a "sponsor" and attend meetings in order to stay sober. I spoke (typed) and said that was not what chapter's 5 and 6 state; but, that working the steps is what AA has to offer. Needless to say I was interupted and told No; aa is attending meetings and getting a sponsor; that's how it works.

Unfortunately, that is the AA world of today and if you try to change it; you will only be told by the majority that you are wrong and that meetings and sponsors (people who "guide" you) are necessary and the the steps are only "suggested".

I went online to these meeting for about 3 months and many had relapsed and returned during that time; singing the same song of meetings and sponsorship.

I find it sad that AA has come to this; because I know that working the steps worked for me and I don't desire or want to drink alcohol. It breaks my heart to see these people keep going through that revolving door and hanging onto "sobriety" one day at a time.

Well, that's what I have to say. I'm not counted as a success because I don't attend meeting; but, there are thousands of us out here who worked the 12 step program and it worked for us.

Rosso

Andante

Thank goodness Dee seems to have reconsidered since 2009.

mfanch

Man, I know SOO MANY 3-percenters. They must all live in my town. lolol

Glad to be sober 5 years and counting.....thanks to AA.

Andante

Interesting post, Rosso, and thanks for resurrecting this old thread.

What I see is that while the program of AA remains intact, various fads and fancies within the fellowship come and go.

I also see a distinction between the type of people for whom a regimented “paint-by-numbers” approach works better (these will be more apt to stress meeting attendance and sponsorship as a requirement), and the type of people for whom gaining a fundamental understanding of the principles behind the program and then applying them to daily life works better.

I find myself to fit more into the latter category; perhaps you do too?

I think you’ll find that the overall vibe at SR is pretty open-minded compared to what you’ve experienced on other sites and perhaps at your face-to-face AA meetings.

skg

Since my experience is the only one I can comment on or had any affect on regarding success or failure, and because I cannot speculate on others' conditions in approaching the steps (or not doing them), I will say that I was not an alcoholic before I came to AA and I drank to oblivion every day. Since entering the doors of AA I have become an alcoholic and haven't found it necessary to take another drink.

I use another online forum, attend meetings daily, work the principles in all my affairs, sponsor other alcoholics, read the materials, chair meetings, invest myself in recovery and understand How It Works. It only works for me if I work it.

AA is a life vest: It won't keep a drowning man from dying if he won't put it on all the way. Can't blame the manufacturer if the product isn't used for its intended purpose...

No God, No Peace. Know God, know peace....

Gargery

Failure and success are highly subjective, personal terms.

Today in a meeting, I was shocked when an old-timer with several decades of sobriety raised his hand and shared that he broke down the night before and got drunk. That's a momentary failure: in the mean time, he has raised kids who never saw him take a drink, had a good career and a full life of sobriety. He may be a statistic: just one more AA that failed. However, the man is anything but a failure, and is now taking it one day at a time on day one.

Dee74

Welcome Rosso

That was before I became a mod lol

D