Pinkcuda

I don't like the word "Program" even though it's use is pretty commonplace. I prefer the word "Lifestyle".
I figure that A.A. is a guide that you use to determine how you should live your life, "Lifestyle" is the only word that fits once the program becomes a habit.

bob_sapp

To all who asked, yes I am working on and looking at myself, and the feelings I have described in my OP are partially what prompted this.
I identify with this. I want to focus on the bb and true meaning of AA, not the traditional stuff we do/say at meetings that doesn't do dick-all in the big picture of long-term sobriety(what I want to have).

I have worked the 12 steps and am currently going through them a 2nd time. I should be doing another 4/5 in the next month, and am doing 10,11,12 every day now, reading 86-88 in the BB----to me those pages are the essence of the program right there. When I wake up in the morning and when I go to bed. I am learning that if I don't do that every day, my best intentions don't mean $hit, I can easily slide into a place where I don't know what I am doing and why. I am on a service committee, I chair meetings at my home group from time to time, etc. Yes I have a higher power of my understanding and I rely on him for strength and wisdom.

jimhere

Bob,you are right about what you see in AA. It aggravates me too. But guess what? It is up to you and up to me to tell the truth. All we can do is be an example and change AA one drunk at a time through sponsorship. You can do that too, but you had better get used to being called arrogant, a Big Book Nazi, and worse. You'll find that people that do the work aren't always welcome among the people that don't do the work. You'll find that when you go to the MOTR meetings and talk about what you've done, the people that haven't done the work always think that you are trying to tell them what to do. It is not always comfortable and can be a bit lonely at times. But we have a ******** sifter called Alcoholics Anonymous (the book).

Have you seen "Gresham's Law and Alcoholics Anonymous?" It was written in the mid seventies and is quite prophetic.

I have said that I wouldn't have many resentments if I didn't go to AA meetings.I write a lot of inventory about what people do and don't do in AA. The truth I usually see is that I get stirred up about what is not my business. My job is to do God's work and be an example of God's Power, God's Love, and God's way of life. A friend of mine used to say carry the message to everyone and be there for the ones that want it.
Jim
Jim

CAPTAINZING2000

The important thing to remember in a meeting, we're all just sick people trying to get well !!

Music

My first sponsor told me if I work the program the same way he does, I might get drunk. I never did quite understand that but I do now. There's only one program and that's the one contained in the first 164 pages of the Big Book. Nobody works those steps exactly the same way. People I know in AA work their own program. Some are successful and some aren't. Some are happy and some aren't. Their results are none of my business. I work my program and that's my business. I'd suggest you mind your own business Bob and stop worrying about others and trying to read things into what you see.

best

Your concerns for others can be a good thing but there comes a time and place when our hands are tied to do anything for others.
Carry the message and leave it up to God from there.
Some of us are sicker then others and some of us grow faster then others.
We are each at our own place of growth.
As others see what you have, they will ask how you do it and at that time you can better explain things.

Freedom1990

It has been my experience over the years that yes, there are some unhappy folks in AA, and not just newcomers. However, I have found, for the most part, in my circle of recovery, a wonderful group of folks who have seen the promises come to fruition in their lives and are very content. :ghug2

Tommyh

Bob,for the last month or two,I have listened to and talked with some of my AA friends.We have noticed a lot of hurting people in AA and some very happy people in AA.

My second sponser used to say-in every AA meeting,we see all levels of sanity and insanity,and all levels of spirituallity.I believe he was right.My present sponsor says-you can lead a horse to water and you can`t make him drink,but you can make him thirsty as hell.

Complacency is a serious thing in AA today.We can get complacent and confused and just feel funky for a while and then we wonder whats wrong.I know because it is my experience.It is easy to drift away from steps 10-12 daily and find myself resting on my past efforts.My friends say it`s easy for them too.
We live in a small rural area without the benefit of a lot of oldtimers.We can get caught up in a cycle where we go to meetings,same old same old.
We`re caught in a loop.We go outside our loop to oldtimers and hear new things,new perspectives on the program etc.We planned a Big Book weekend the first weekend of April.I can`t wait.We`re doing things to stay involved and hopefully pull others with us down the Spiritual path of AA who want more.

Bob,one more thing I have learned,I am to grow in understanding and effectiveness.
I have found I need to go outside the meetings.I need to go out in the world and just try and do 12 step work.Whether it is some local PI,Corrections or whatever,I need to get out there and just try.That brings more growth in effectiveness and more understanding,and jolts me out of complacency.

Zoobear

Show up early and talk to the guy who makes the coffee. Stay late and talk to the guy who sweeps up. They know a secret that can help you.

RufusACanal

Thank you bballdad! Currently I am rebuilding my side of the relationship with God. I always been the Doubting Thomas; why is this the way it is. For years, I have studied the historical growth of Judeo-Christianity, the appearance and selection of the testaments of the Bible and the roll of the Catholic Church in its miserable attempts at nation building. I never believed the baloney of two creation stories, palaces of gold, the Jewish people as the chosen ones, the lack of humanity contained in the missing years of Jesus; faith for me was not enough, I needed more which is completely Alcoholic.

I am finding MORE today. The promises are coming true in my life, today. Little slivers of truth find their way to my consciousness and I accept each knowing that God is helping me find my faith once again, a faith I can stand on and continue to live free, not some novelistic fairy tale.

I am no different than any man or woman here. Let me repeat, I am no different than any man or woman here. My struggles to live life on life’s terms are different at any given time, but the process is the same. Maybe we as a fellowship do not do enough to help each other understand the changes of a bruised and damaged mind and soul as it returns to some semblance of sanity. This is not an exact science and we are damned sure not in the profession of medicine, yet through the simple framework of unity we have found a way back from the brink and we do help one another endlessly.

Bob, it took me over 25 years of Alcoholics Anonymous, 1977 through 2003 to get teachable, to surrender, to feel a part of and to find God. I was another one of the men that many said would not make it. I spilled more booze than most consumed. Does this journey make me less than another member, NO.? It is simply the road I chose to walk. If I had simply given in back there in 1977, what a different picture it might have been, but I did not and that is not a part of this reality. I needed every drink I drank to be free.

Maybe you are not done drinking. Maybe you are not done with pain. Maybe your terminal uniqueness will be the end of you. Remember, most die from this thing called Alcoholism. Maybe you will recover. Maybe instead of looking out you will decide to look within with a passion that you have not yet displayed. Maybe you will cease lying to yourself and others. I do know as well as anyone that we never stand still, it is either onward and upward or down. How honest are you willing to get to find your answers? How much work are you willing to go through to find your foundation?

I am more than willing to help you with your journey.

laurie6781

This was me when I finally reached AA. I had left the CC when I was 14, told the Monsignor what he could do with his "man made laws, not God made laws." and never looked back.

However, got to AA and found out I had to find a power greater than myself. What an order. It was a long journey for me, especially since I wanted nothing to do with Organized Religion. At my first Anniversary, I was given a copy of Emmet Fox's "Sermon On The Mount" and it was then that my search really began. In a lot of ways that book helped me to understand that my feelings about organized religion and man made laws versus God (HP) man laws were not original afterall. Others before me had and have felt the same way.

This search took me to an area of my life, that was the DEEP DARK FAMILY SECRET. My one grandmother was full blooded Lakota Indian. Now living in the southwest, I didn't have that much access to the Lakota's but did have to the Zuni, Hopi, and Navaho's. I started sitting with the Elders, asking questions, and just listening. Over the years at various "Pow Wows" I have been able to get in contact with Sioux Elders also.

What I have found is that no matter the tribe, the teachings are the same. Mother Earth is Grandmother and The Great Spirit takes care of all of us. No not possible stories, no damnation, just sensible beliefs (to me anyway) that have helped me tremendously to find an HP of my own understanding and bring peace and serenity to my life.

Rufus I believe that each of us has to find our own understanding of a Power Greater than ourselves in order to live a spiritual way of life and I can in no way push my HP on you and you cannot push your HP on anyone else.

I also believe there are no coincidences, thus your struggles from 1977 to 2003 were exactly what was needed for you to find a way of life that you can live today, enjoy today, and pass on to others.

Yep the promises do come true. Early in recovery my sponsor had me write in my journal the things I hope to accomplish now that I was sober...................................by my first anniversary I had already passed most of them. I had sold myself so short. I still randomly pick up one of my journals now and then and start reading. They are such a great reminder of where I have come from and how my journey has changed me.

Sorry I didn't mean to 'hijack' the thread, but your post just brought up some memories, mostly good of my struggle to find my HP.

J M H O

Love and hugs,

RufusACanal

Thank you Laurie! I haven't read Sermon on the Mount in ages; I will do so immediately!

Tazman53

Laurie how so very true, I have been through the steps with my sponsor and am taking a sponsee through them now which simply drives home the point of living the steps, One Day At A Time.

I only have control over my side of the street and I keep it as clean as I can, by doing this I can only hope that what I have today is what someone else may want and that I will be able to give it to them freely like it was given to me.

I had to want it to get it, I asked for it and it was given to me by folks who had it. I have found that there is no purpose to worry about others sides of the street, I need to work on my side of the street or I have nothing to give away

Can't give away what one does not have.

kevin 311

Philip Yancey has written some thoughtful books about expectations and disappointment with God that you might be interested in.

Rebbe Nachman of Breslov had much to say about depression and spiritual remedies (he himself suffered from depression).

Mother Teresa had serious doubts about God but she seems to have gone about her work in the world.

When you're happy and healthy, God is there.
When you're miserable and sick, God is there.
When you're born, when you croak, God is there.

HTH

29a

Life has it's ups and downs and so do I.
when I'm up, it's my responsibility to help others, when I'm down, I lean on my fellows for support. It's a we program and It's why it works.

I am responisible.....not only for the new comer, but for those around me who need help

If others around you are miserable, see what you can do for them

And my view point is that most people I know in AA are generally happy, unless they are going through a rough patch. There are always exceptions

1cor13

I came across these quotes today and thought they might get tossed in with the discussion. What are you willing to endure?

bob_sapp

I told you before I don't want to go back drinking, and I am sick of sober misery. I have one plan, which is what I am following now. I wake up in the morning, get on my knees, put my head down, and pray honestly and earnestly to do god's will for myself today. I pray for freedom from self-will and self-seeking behaviors. If I have extra time, I do what I can to be of service to others. At the end of the day, I take a personal inventory and review my day. I pray about what I need to, and go to bed. Then I do it again. I know who my higher power is, it's not the group, a ******* doorknob, or a guardian of drunks, it's god. I am completely honest in all of this and have changed nothing to suit my personal tastes. It's his will, not mine. You can think what you want about this, but I am doing it to the letter right out of the BB, and with an honest heart. I am confident that I will get to the next step I need to take if I follow this routine, and know what to do when I get there. I pray for his will for me and the power to carry that out, that is it. All I know is, I started doing this and I no longer want to drink or kill myself. I try to stay away from extremes and black and white, but half-measures in the program are all but worthless to me. Today, I have given up on self will, and am finished toying around with my program. I kept in contact with an ex who I met in AA, who has gone back drinking and using. I have told this person I can no longer associate with them if I am going to be sober, her ********, games, and AA bashing have all but made me drink. I don't want anyone else's insanity, I think I have finally gotten honest about how it has affected me.

RufusACanal

Excellent, then I stand corrected. Sounds like you have your ducks in a row. Best to you.

r

RufusACanal

I went to bed last night and got up this morning thinking of you Bob; you sounded like me some years ago and I have never been one to leave sleeping dogs lie. I'll make this brief. You have in one context or another commented at length about your misery, loneliness, and apathy with your new life. I and others have simply wanted to help. You seem to have the answers now. I will not waste your time nor add to your misery with my comments. I do wish you well

barb dwyer

That would be me.
I was granted another chance at life.
I don't know why.
I'm supposed to do something.
I don't know what it is.
I just know *it* is something.
I'm not doing it *for* anyone.
Other ... that The One ... Who did the Sparing.

I am not here because I was chosen.
I am here because I was spared.

There is a difference.

The Program of Alcoholics Anonymous afforded me the means to take a broken shattered life and destroyed personality and by the Grace of God ... in the safety of a circle of loving friends. I was allowed, for no special reason I can find for them to do so mind you, (other than I asked) to help me rebuild this life it into something that can serve a Sacred purpose Greater than My Most Secret Hope for my Self ever was.

Any more questions?