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Old 03-26-2012, 09:46 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Question Day 1 on Suboxone..

So... today was the first day i went to a doctor and was put on suboxone. I guess for so many months of thinking and researching about this opition i had a vision of how this visit would go....
I visioned i would meet the doctor and he would ask me how my addiction started what i had taken in my years of addiction...ect ect.
Turns out i was the first patient to arrive at 9:20am and my apt. wasnt until 9:45am but i had a lot of paper work to do... I waited and waited.... saw atleas 5 ppl(regulars) bee seen before me.... finnaly i was seen and basically told me i don't look sick enough to be going into withdrawls to be put on the meds first thing he says to me.... and i had been in atleast 24hrs of withdrawl i felt like death...i told him what i was feeling but he still kept implying that i was lying.... then he asked my what i had been taking i told him for the past year i started with tabs taking up to 7-10 a day then moving up to roxys to taking 2 a day.... sometimes 3 and taking adderol from time to time with them.... he said well i usually dont treat patients taking that low of a dose.. but im 20yrs old and very small girl i had been doing this for awhile and could never quit cold turkey i needed pills to make me normal to just wake up i didnt even get high anymore... i was reaching out to this man who only made me feel worse... like a liar..... anyways after hours of waiting then this run around he sent me to wal greens for a 6 strip dose for the next two days before my next follow up.... and this clinic is a hour away because all the clinics near me couldnt accept new patients for a month or two.... and i had already blew threw atleast 1,000 dollars for this habit... i cant pay my bills.. buy food or gas.... i needed help another route to save my job, my realationships with the people i loved and cared about whom i hurt and lied to every single day... i needed this to save my life give me a chance to start over... but im scared all that happened today just exhausted my hope.... this subs have made me feel strange but im not in w/ds just feeling tired...woozy... i dont i guess im just rabbling looking for advice.. someone to talk to about this day...

Much appericated!!! ~~Hannah~~
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Old 03-26-2012, 10:29 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Oh hun, sorry your experience was such a negative one. Well done comin here to unload. How you feelin now?

Hugs...and...release!

xx
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Old 03-26-2012, 10:40 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Hello Hannah,
Through experience, Suboxone relieves all withdrawal effects. It helped me get out of the oxycodones. I was prescribed 8 mgs suboxone a day. I did not like how they made me feel. However, I did not have an urge to take an oxy, plus it wouldn't have worked any ways. I wanted to quit oxy usage badly. I tapered down to 2 mgs a day, then less and less over a period of a couple of months. Talk to your doctor. Do you want out ?? Get out!! It really worked for me. 2 years clean. Hope the best for you. No way to live.Addicted to pills or anything.
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Old 03-26-2012, 10:42 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Nice one Ollie. 2 years is amazing
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Old 03-26-2012, 11:19 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Thanks so much!!! just hearing your replies made me feel better knowing someone is listening and offering support!!I want a sober clean life so badly I do not want to be on the subs very long! 6months is my goal. Im going to look into cousleing this week and go to my first meeting within the week!! i am desperate for help. I have never wanted anything so bad!! my doc isnt very helpful. he didnt even really guide me or watch my take my film. im on the flim top tabliets. my little packet says 8mg/2mg not sure what that means. I took one today then another half... he wants me to take two a day but i think thats to much i wanna taper as soon as possible but still take this process slow and get my life back in the mean time. this whole thing is very overwhelming and confussing i go back on wed for a follow up and im going to ask a lot more questions this time... the doc wasnt helpful he was kinda just pushing me out and rushing me the whole time... bleh :/ I know the meds are working i just dont want to get to high on a dose and keep getting higher thats my main worry! cause i feel how strong the effects are.
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Old 03-26-2012, 11:23 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Yeah, we're right here! I know nothing about the meds you're on, but everyone here's trying to get clean

Where's GA? Tryin to work that one out... Galifornia? G... um, is there a State that starts with G??? Is England here, 7:30 am. Sunny day for a change
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Old 03-27-2012, 07:10 AM   #7 (permalink)
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@Still Georgia! Hahaa....that made me smile super hard! I couldn't tell you one town from another over there either!

@sundrop He's got you on two whole strips a day? Holy crow! That's a ton for what you were using......I was jumping back and forth between Oxy's/Roxy's and Methadone heavily when I first tried Suboxone.......I started with 2mg in the am and 2mg in the pm, might have felt a little uncomfortable in the middle, but it was bearable. I always hear people getting started at such high doses, it's no wonder people are on them for months, then it's hard to get off because they continue to want Subs and they started so high up the taper is forever. I could have stopped using years ago, but I became just as heavily addicted to Subs when I didn't immediately start tapering, and continued to increase my dose to feel more, just like every other pill I ever took. The less you take and stick to from the start, the easier it is to taper down and quit - *I'm not telling you how to use them or advising you differently* - but it's reality. You're body will taper however you make it, and is dependant on how much discomfort you're willing to deal with - most people refuse to feel ANY w/d symptoms, thus they take as much as they need to get a buzz or at least feel "normal". I always believed it's smarter to take just enough to qwell MOST of the symptoms, if you can feel ok like that, then you know you don't need more Subs and can continue dropping by .5-1mg until you're done. I'm a firm believer that Subs can be tapered by 1mg or more per week, cutting out all the BS of "wanting/needing/fear", I know this works fine on the body as I've done it more than once. I don't agree with all these people getting prescribed months or years of Suboxone - it's purpose is to quit opiates, not to switch to a new one. You will still go through some w/d, especially if you're going to be on it for months, seems easier to get it out of the way sooner rather than later. I think 2 strips is waaaay more than you should be needing, that's just my opinion though. I hope the best for you in your recovery.

P.s. - The 8mg/2mg is buprenorphine and naloxone. The Buprenorphine is a partial-opiate that binds to your opiate receptors, the Naloxone is the antagonist that will make you feel nothing or become violently ill if you take full opiates when it's in your system. But just for kicks, did you know that the non-synthetic base of Buprenorphine is derived from Thebaine - which comes from Opium Poppy - and is 20-40x stronger than morphine? Just an idea of how people can become just as addicted. Take care.
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Old 03-27-2012, 08:32 PM   #8 (permalink)
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sundrop19: Welcome to SR. Sounds like your doctor was having a bad day. I wonder how he would feel if he knew how his "bedside manner" made you feel? Personally, I like to make a list of the things I want to discuss with docs before going in, otherwise I forget something. It sounds like with the waiting list of all the others around you, this doc may be the best bet for the immediate moment, which is when you need him, but maybe go ahead and get on a waiting list anyway for one of the others just in case this dr. doesn't improve.

Stopdrop has the good advice on all the other
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Old 03-27-2012, 08:50 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Sundrop19, i understand you completely my doctor treated me with much disrespect the first time i went there. to him, everything i said was a lie and it didn't matter because he already had his mind made up. the next time i went back i was feeling much better and looking much better. My doctor went from treating me like someone with a contagious disease to hitting on me. ( go figure right?) he has now done many things to make me consider switching to a new doctor, so i am looking now.
As for suboxone, it has helped me through a lot, however i have now learned that when it comes time to get off of this, the feeling of withdrawal will be just as bad if not worse then getting off the painkillers. i tried to get off sub from 1mg and i failed miserably. my doctor has brought me back up to 4mgs because i ran through the program as if i was running a marathon and my body couldn't handle it. I am in more pain than imaginable feeling as though i was hit by a bus. so my advice to you is that if you are going to continue with the sub than take your time, don't let anyone pressure you to get off it faster than you are ready for, and follow what your body is telling you. if you don't think a maintenance program is for you than sub isn't for you. follow your gut and good luck to you on your road to recovery!
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Old 03-27-2012, 09:11 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Stopdropburn
I agree with you absolutely. Suboxones are strong meds. Hard to argue with the doctor I guess, but 2 8mg strips is just crazy. I was getting the pill form and just took a quarter to see if that relieved the oxy withdrawals. That would be 2 mgs.of bup. I was taking 100mgs of oxy a day for awhile.Suboxone treatment I started at 4mgs of buprenorphine twice a day and quickly went to 2 mgs, then chop that pill even more. 1 mg. I really do not understand the very high dose for long periods of time. But some people are different. If your really ready to quit, I found lower dosages worked avoiding withdrawals
and doing so I did not have to go through suboxone withdrawals, which I understand are even worse and longer duration. Your on suboxones to quit, not go into another addiction.Ease out and be done with it. I am enjoying life with my money and it's so nice not to be on the hunt. Best to you and all of us.
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Old 03-27-2012, 09:11 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Hi sundrop19,

I used suboxone to get off oxycodone. It worked great and I tapered down pretty quick, like 6 weeks, and was done. There was some unpleasantness afterward for sure but it did get me off the oxys and I never looked back. I agree with Stopdropburn about it being overprescribed and for way too long. Well best to you, just think not to long you will be free from the dependence!
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Old 03-28-2012, 07:36 PM   #12 (permalink)
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The 8mg/2mg means that the Suboxone strips you're taking contains 8mg of buprenorphine which is the opioid and 2mg of naloxone which is basically an anti-opiate. When you take naloxone orally, like you are doing, it's inactive so the naloxone won't do anything for you. It would only be activated if you would try to shoot it.
If your doctor is telling you to take two 8mg Suboxone strips per day I'd say he's crazy or has no clue what he's doing. 16mg/day for someone who has a fairly mild dependence as you have is way too much. Normally you start with less and go up if needed. I'm not a doctor and I don't have that much experience with Suboxone but based on what I know I would think that you could do just fine on 4mg - half a strip. If you take too much you won't feel good. You'll often get jittery like you've drank too much coffee and some get anxiety. If I were you I'd talk to the doctor about lowering the dose and see how it goes. If you need an increase then get one but there is no reason to start out taking more than you need.

There is a pretty good site that is ran by a Suboxone doctor and focuses on Suboxone only that you may want to check out. The doc will take questions too. It's called suboxforum. You can google it. I can't post links.
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Old 03-29-2012, 02:44 PM   #13 (permalink)
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The dose of Suboxone someone needs to be on depends on that individual person. Some need higher doses while others do okay at lower doses. There are many factors that contribute to the dose someone would need, its not just how much you used. Also you do NOT build up a tolerance to Buprenorphine like you would oxys, that means as you stabilize on Sub you should be able to taper your dose, not increase it. The first couple days on Sub you might experience what some would call a "high" feeling or feel a little off but after a few days your body will adjust and you will just feel normal, you will not get no type of euphoria from Sub if you are taking it like you are supposed to, even if you try to take more of it to get high, it will not work. It is next to impossible to get "addicted" to Sub if you are taking it for opiate dependence. Many people get the terms "dependent" and "addicted" confused. You might become dependent on Sub and thats why to get off it you would need a good taper plan but you will not become "addicted" to it. The reason Sub withdrawal will last a little longer in duration compared to oxys is because of the half-life of it. Its good that it has a long half-life because then you only need to dose once a day to keep withdrawals away but kinda sucks cause it does take longer to leave your system. Sub withdrawals are mild compared to percocet or heroin, they are no wheres near as bad if you taper low enough then jump, some people have even tapered so low that they came out with next to no withdrawals. The key is to taper as low as possible and let your body get used to each dose reduction before reducing more. Many people just think because withdrawals from Sub last longer that they are worse and thats not true. SuboxForum is a great site and there is very knowledgeable people there when it comes to Suboxone and Methadone. I just had to post this info because I was reading the other posts and there was alot of info posted about Sub that was incorrect and I believe people should have the right info because it could mean life or death, opiate addiction is nothing to play with. Also, one last thing I wanted to put out there was about Naloxone. Naloxone is basically a drug they pointlessly put in Suboxone, people can still shoot it if they wanted and it would do nothing and its inactive when taken orally. Basically its there but mise well not be because it does not do anything at all, its just there. Good Luck with your recovery and I wish you all the best.
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Old 03-29-2012, 02:59 PM   #14 (permalink)
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The dose of Suboxone someone needs to be on depends on that individual person. Some need higher doses while others do okay at lower doses. There are many factors that contribute to the dose someone would need, its not just how much you used. Also you do NOT build up a tolerance to Buprenorphine like you would oxys, that means as you stabilize on Sub you should be able to taper your dose, not increase it. The first couple days on Sub you might experience what some would call a "high" feeling or feel a little off but after a few days your body will adjust and you will just feel normal, you will not get no type of euphoria from Sub if you are taking it like you are supposed to, even if you try to take more of it to get high, it will not work. It is next to impossible to get "addicted" to Sub if you are taking it for opiate dependence. Many people get the terms "dependent" and "addicted" confused. You might become dependent on Sub and thats why to get off it you would need a good taper plan but you will not become "addicted" to it. The reason Sub withdrawal will last a little longer in duration compared to oxys is because of the half-life of it. Its good that it has a long half-life because then you only need to dose once a day to keep withdrawals away but kinda sucks cause it does take longer to leave your system. Sub withdrawals are mild compared to percocet or heroin, they are no wheres near as bad if you taper low enough then jump, some people have even tapered so low that they came out with next to no withdrawals. The key is to taper as low as possible and let your body get used to each dose reduction before reducing more. Many people just think because withdrawals from Sub last longer that they are worse and thats not true. SuboxForum is a great site and there is very knowledgeable people there when it comes to Suboxone and Methadone. I just had to post this info because I was reading the other posts and there was alot of info posted about Sub that was incorrect and I believe people should have the right info because it could mean life or death, opiate addiction is nothing to play with. Also, one last thing I wanted to put out there was about Naloxone. Naloxone is basically a drug they pointlessly put in Suboxone, people can still shoot it if they wanted and it would do nothing and its inactive when taken orally. Basically its there but mise well not be because it does not do anything at all, its just there. Good Luck with your recovery and I wish you all the best.
- Sorry Clean, I don't normally attempt to "correct" anyone - but a lot of what you just posted is completely and utterly false. There is a HUGE ability to become addicted and dependent on Suboxone - it's chemical base is 20-40x stronger than morphine. There is NO ceiling effect that people "claim" - if you take more, you get higher, it's a flat fact - I know this because I was a Suboxone addict for YEARS....my dealer used to use between 4-6 strips/tabs a day just because he loved the high so much. There is a huge potential for it's abuse - the fact is it's an opiate, and there is nothing in it that "stops" it from getting someone high. It's true that when used properly, it's easier to get through w/d and get clean, it's true that you shouldn't be high if using it properly, but nearly everything else is completely off. Please don't promote those as facts. I was a Suboxone addict for years, it's not a guess.
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Old 03-29-2012, 07:34 PM   #15 (permalink)
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I don't think anyone is saying that you can't become addicted to bupe. People can become addicted, i.e. start using something obsessively and compulsively, to all sorts of things. It's definitely possible to get high from bupe. I have. But it's not likely that if used properly for the treatment of addiction that you will become addicted to Suboxone. If you start using it for recreational purposes that's a different story.
And there is a ceiling effect with buprenorphine that has been documented for decades, at about 32mg. Anything less than that will work like any other opioid. If you're on 16mg and you take more then yes, you will have an additional effect. If you are on 32mg and take more you should not get any additional effect other than maybe the placebo effect.

@CleanBreeze, you're right, you don't need to build up a tolerance with Suboxone but it makes little sense to take more than you need from the beginning. If someone could do well on 8mg why give her 16mg? In general th dose is adjusted upwards if needed. If your tolerance is low taking a high dose of Suboxone will get you high and that's not conducive to recovery.
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Old 03-29-2012, 08:54 PM   #16 (permalink)
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I wasnt saying you could not get "addicted" to Sub, you def. can..if youre using it recreationally, you can NOT however become addicted if youre using it for opiate replacement therapy, Dependent yes, addicted no.. there is a difference in those 2 words. I can back up everything I say with medical research and studies.. please look into some of that before you make the statement that what ive said is false. There also IS a "ceiling" and it is 32mg. Sub can possibly save someones life and if that 1 person were to read what you just said and shy away from Sub because of it.. well you get where im going.. PLEASE do your research before misinforming people and telling others they are wrong.
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Old 03-29-2012, 09:00 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Also I forgot.. Taking Sub recreationally and taking it for opiate replacement therapy are 2 completely different stories and you will have 2 completely different outcomes.. 99% of the people coming to this site for info are trying to use it the right way.. The only things you are putting out there are things about using it recreationally, thats not the type of information most of these people are looking for.
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Old 03-30-2012, 06:58 AM   #18 (permalink)
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@clean - I may have misread when you quoted "It is next to impossible to get "addicted" to Sub if you are taking it for opiate dependence." - and taken it as you meant in general. But I have done as much or more research into it as anyone on this site - addict's know their DOC, and it was mine for over 4 years straight. I made a response directly towards your post - not advising anyone to never move to Suboxone from an opiate they are addicted to as a taper plan. If you ever read previous posts of mine, they simply talk about the ability to become addicted just like any other opiate, but I never wrote a horror story about it. I can copy and paste from wiki and Suboxone links all day, I speak from experience though. As an added note however - I don't personally believe MOST people here are not talking about recreational use of anything.....it's a site for recovering addicts - period. Most stories I read are based on recreational use, most doctors don't recommend you be an addict on their terms.

Ok - enough thread hijacking. This is sundrop's place to share.

@sundrop Hope you're progressing well with your treatment. Let us know how it's going. Take care.
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Old 03-30-2012, 10:49 AM   #19 (permalink)
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But I have done as much or more research into it as anyone on this site
How do you even determine something like this? Did you poll all of the users of this site?

I see what you are getting at though with so called recreational users. The same goes for many people's experience with opiate based pain meds. They started out being prescribed them for a valid medical reason and end up abusing them. Many people start out using subs for the right reasons and then end up abusing it (or going back to recreational use). So while maybe 99% of the people come here looking to use it in the right way (which sounds a bit high) many find themselves abusing it so it is important to note the potential for abuse so those thinking about trying it realize that.

Anyway Sundrop how is it going? Did you have your follow up appointment?
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Old 03-30-2012, 11:10 AM   #20 (permalink)
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How do you even determine something like this? Did you poll all of the users of this site?
- I determine this based on my having spent several years glued to sites, forums and books alike trying to learn the science behind Suboxone/Methadone and other opiates alike - trying to find the best way to use and potentiate all of them, trying to learn every fragment of information about the drugs that I LOVED so much for so long. It was a hobby of mine to sit and research the science of opiates and how they interact with our bodies and other chemicals. It wasn't a pretentious statement - I am not proud of these facts, it just is. That's all I was saying - I know my DOC, I wasn't making uneducated comments.
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