AlericB

I agree with you that the key is removing the option to drink from the table.

There may be lots of thoughts and feelings around making the decision to quite forever. For me anyway it was quite difficult, mainly because I was plagued by thoughts that I could still moderate. However thoughts and feelings are not really that important in this. They are not of primary importance. It could have been the case that I made my Big Plan without any doubts or hesitations like these. These doubts seemed to be passive, they just occurred to me, whereas making the decision to quit was a positive activity, something that I actively did. So I think a BP can be made irrespective of how we are thinking or feeling at the time - we just need to make it and mean it.

Aspieman

I've tried the link that was kindly sent and it was good, but too short for me at only 8mins. I have found some others on YouTube by the likes of Alan Watts which I really like!

So I have found a local group for Mindfullness, but I must admit I'm anxious to go. I think I'll be using some of the resources such as the one you suggested thank you, until I get used to the idea of groups. I am a highly self-motivated person so I will continue to stay drug free, and begin to acclimatise myself to the idea of interacting with other recovery people face-to-face rather than online. I understand now that mindfulness is more a technique than a recovery structure. I do however feel very drawn to the logic of Buddhist thought, so I would like to pursue this avenue more.

Fusion

Hi Aspieman, sounds like a solid plan. I bought a number of books on Buddhism over the years I tried to stop drinking. I was culling my bookcase recently and set aside and read a Buddhism book, about getting unstuck from ‘attachments’ which is their word for addictions.......and when I first read it years ago, it made no sense.....but now, after stopping drinking via AVRT, it makes COMPLETE sense. There are parallels between AVRT, meditation and Mindfullness - the only difference being that with AVRT, one makes the decision to never drink again, and denounces one day at a time.

AlericB

I think you've highlighted an important difference between mindfulness/mediation and AVRT.

Suppose I was going to a party and know there's going to be lots of alcohol there. Now this could mean only one thing to me: that I'd start drinking, probably drink too much, continue drinking when I got home and miss work the following day etc.

If I took a mindfulness approach then when I start telling myself all this I would take a step back and recognise it for what it actually is: a story. And then I'd remind myself that I don't have to believe this story about what would happen, that I have a choice and that I can choose to go to the party and not drink.

With AVRT the decision to not drink is already made and I just have to remind myself of it.

dwtbd

I'm assuming a hypothetical here :
"Suppose I was going to a party and know there's going to be lots of alcohol there. Now this could mean only one thing to me: that I'd start drinking, probably drink too much, continue drinking when I got home and miss work the following day etc. "
One for a person pre-BP , yeah ?

Pre-BP " ..could only mean one thing to me..." , post-BP "could only mean one thing to my beast, or me if I were to listen to the AV,..."

Without AVRT , the qualifier 'too much' means one agrees with the AV about consumption, ie a good and possible thing, but is not aware of the lack of separation from the AV to the extent that limiting quantity is a plan for consumption. "too much" is recognized as a 'bad ' thing to the rational 'side' , the ironic part is that the Beast has no such qualifier "too" is neither good nor bad , the Beast is totally binary, IT recognizes either none or more, unqualified.

"With AVRT the decision to not drink is already made and I just have to remind myself of it."

I see the choice as removed , the decision made, but who or what needs reminding, and of what exactly?

Greenwood618

The mindfulness/mysticism/eastern spiritualism/meditation crowd is just packed with AV. Full of it.

AlericB

dwtbd,

Yes, this would have to be someone who has not made a BP because if they had made one considering using an alternative method not to drink at a party would be AV because it suggests that their BP is not sufficient.

If I, as someone who has made a BP, was going to a party and I was feeling anxious alcohol will be present, I would recognise this anxiety as AV because it suggests self-doubt in my ability not to drink at the event.

But I do have to do something to separate myself from the AV or at least this is how I experience AVRT. The AV is something that just occurs but my decision to never drink again is not just another perception or thought. It is an action, something that requires an agent, a being who acts. So, to answer your questions, it is this being that I would be reminding and I would be reminding myself of the commitment I made when I made my BP.

AlericB

Using the defn. given above, mindfulness is paying attention in a particular way: on purpose, in the present moment, non-judgmentally and as if your life depends on it. I don't see how this suggests, supports or promotes any possibility of future drinking (AV).

I am also not sure why you combined mindfulness and meditation with "eastern spiritualism" (why "eastern" btw?) or mysticism.

dwtbd

AlericB

"With AVRT the decision to not drink is already made and I just have to remind myself of it."

Being in this 'corner of the interwebs' my AV radar runs high,lol, it may be a semantic difference, but 'have to' implies an alternative, and nestled in that implication is the one that suggests the thing that drives the alternative , the ' or else' is a form of motive power or prime mover, yeah?

"With AVRT the decision to not drink is already made and I just remind myself of it." little better , but.. who's gonna 'forget?

AlericB

Yes. By "I just have to" I meant "all I have to do is" but your alternative is clearer.

OK, you're never really going to forget your decision never to drink but you have to do something to initiate the separation from AV no?

With mindfulness this could simply be naming any drinking thought as "AV". We tend to identify ourselves with our thinking and doing this would create some space in which you can decide your response.

What works for me with AVRT is recollecting my BP. This seems to "re-collect" me back to myself again.

Fusion

Yes! The POWER is in the pause. In the early days, the Beast and ITs sidekick voicepiece, the AV, “I want a drink, with attendant cravings, desire, nostalgia, physical feelings......ad nauseum”. ME and my sub cortical higher brain, “Oh there YOU are, my Booze Beast, one track mind, I recognise you. I do not drink. Flip off”. The end, now moving on. Recognise, pause and detach. Done.

Now? The Beast “I want a drink, need a drink, desire a drink” ..... very few and far between, and the physical compulsion and cravings pretty much disappeared at around three months, after the physical dependency ceased and neuroplasticity kicked in. Even if the Booze Beast circuits in my brain (albeit massively overgrown and bypassed with my new non-drinker habit) flared up - it would matter not! Once the seat of addiction is recognised, ITs game is over, at least that was my experience.

AlericB

Or words to that effect lol.

dwtbd

A
I was going to suggest that your illicit ( ) responses may be provoked by my contrarian nature coupled with an inner narcissist that finds its expression in normative double entendre.
My suspicions are conformed in last post re 'words to that effect' , how literal of you , kindred spirits

AlericB

That's easy for you to say d.

Fusion

LOL. Very true. “Flip Off” was the self-censored version on SR. The reality? I initially behaved verbally uncouth. My Beast had many names.......none could be written here.

Yet now, the sad, ineffective, pathetic, deluded neuro-circuitry, is more likely to be called “wee little beastie” or “pathetic little loser beastie without an accurate memory” or “wee little instant gratification monster beastie”, or “pathetic loser boozer beastie”.

Oh well. I know it’s just a bunch of interconnected habituated neuronal pathways, but I’ve certainly found it helped to give a persona to that part of my brain that became programmed to drink, despite the enormous cost: physically, financially and mentally.