Refugee Recovery
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Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 26,425
Originally Posted by dblightstream 
I go many times a week to a Vipassana meditation hall near my house. It is based upon mindful meditation. We do have mindful meditation sessions for people in 12 step recovery, but I can't say as that I have attended more than once. I prefer instead a non-divisional, inclusive approach to life in general, and don't really practice the 12 step philosophy, so I attend the other meditation sessions. But i love it! have been going for 2 years now!
I interviewed at a Zen center in your neck of the woods... wow it was almost 25 years ago!!!! How time flies. I made the top 3 and then they chose none of us
But it taught me a lot. One of the monks that I stayed with during the interview process told me to take a stand where I was. That served me well in practicing in the mid west for many years ... amazing how a drop of dharma can carry us for many years! I guess we have more in common with Cactus and Camels than we would like My Buddhist practice is full of gentle chuckles most of the time!
Behold the power of NO
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: WA
Posts: 7,764
I started in AA (along with other things) and I benefited from working the steps and the fellowship at the time.
As I grew and changed, I realized that I was on a different path and that I had "outgrown" it. Mindfulness and meditation is what works for me these days.
I am a pretty fluid person and when it comes to recovery, some might say that mine was a "clusterfuck" LOL .
I don't believe that there is a one size fits all when it comes to recovery.
I am really glad that there is a forum such as SR where there is such a wealth of methods and tools being presented and so many diverse people to learn from. I am supportive of anyone who pulls the breaks on suffering and self destruction and quit drinking/drugging regardless of the method they use.
I am sober for good and mostly content and at peace and that's what matters to me.
@Ananda: My avatar sums up my Buddhist practice... yours is the laughing Buddha, I kind of like the grumpy Buddha
As I grew and changed, I realized that I was on a different path and that I had "outgrown" it. Mindfulness and meditation is what works for me these days.
I am a pretty fluid person and when it comes to recovery, some might say that mine was a "clusterfuck" LOL .
I don't believe that there is a one size fits all when it comes to recovery.
I am really glad that there is a forum such as SR where there is such a wealth of methods and tools being presented and so many diverse people to learn from. I am supportive of anyone who pulls the breaks on suffering and self destruction and quit drinking/drugging regardless of the method they use.
I am sober for good and mostly content and at peace and that's what matters to me.
@Ananda: My avatar sums up my Buddhist practice... yours is the laughing Buddha, I kind of like the grumpy Buddha
Member
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 26,425
Good for you Carlotta! Most people think the hedgehog is screaming ... but it really is laughing!
At this point I do a mish mash of everything. When I got sober this time I took a look at what worked and what didn't over the past 30 years. I chose the most successful tools (for me) that I had used and looked at HOW they worked and in what ways. I pieced together a form and applied it. I have no hesitation in pitching out or picking up a new method or tool, and stay open to looking at an old tool if it seems to be calling me and doesn't look like Mara...
the one thing I cannot do is ignor my own experience .. it is the test ground that proves the path for me.
OK ... gotta plant tomatoes. Thanks for posting your experiences.
At this point I do a mish mash of everything. When I got sober this time I took a look at what worked and what didn't over the past 30 years. I chose the most successful tools (for me) that I had used and looked at HOW they worked and in what ways. I pieced together a form and applied it. I have no hesitation in pitching out or picking up a new method or tool, and stay open to looking at an old tool if it seems to be calling me and doesn't look like Mara...
the one thing I cannot do is ignor my own experience .. it is the test ground that proves the path for me.
OK ... gotta plant tomatoes. Thanks for posting your experiences.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Posts: 46
Originally Posted by ananda
I wish that were here or I were there ... but oh well! I also prefer to get support from a non-divisional, inclusive approach. That said do utilize 12 step support, mostly for social support. I really see most of me to be human related rather than something only alchoholics suffer from. We don't hold the monopoly on dukha, samsara or sacuditti (suffering, being asleep and self view). Sorry I spell all the words wrong. I refuse to worry about it
I interviewed at a Zen center in your neck of the woods... wow it was almost 25 years ago!!!! How time flies. I made the top 3 and then they chose none of us But it taught me a lot. One of the monks that I stayed with during the interview process told me to take a stand where I was. That served me well in practicing in the mid west for many years ... amazing how a drop of dharma can carry us for many years! I guess we have more in common with Cactus and Camels than we would like
My Buddhist practice is full of gentle chuckles most of the time!
I interviewed at a Zen center in your neck of the woods... wow it was almost 25 years ago!!!! How time flies. I made the top 3 and then they chose none of us
But it taught me a lot. One of the monks that I stayed with during the interview process told me to take a stand where I was. That served me well in practicing in the mid west for many years ... amazing how a drop of dharma can carry us for many years! I guess we have more in common with Cactus and Camels than we would like My Buddhist practice is full of gentle chuckles most of the time!
Member
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 26,425
Today I am seeing in a real way how we create something out of nothing and then suffer when the creation crumbles to nothingness again.
There is a piece that has a bit of peace in understanding this. It hurts, but the pain seems a bit less personal.
This is a really vivid, painful and yet thoughtful experience I am having right now, and seems like the first time I've been grounded enough in the practice to really experience this
I don't know words are not working... it isn't that it doesn't hurt .. it hurts bad ... and I suspect most of you know what I'm trying to say about the teachings seeping into a true understanding instead of being words on a page. That has been my "goal" in practice for some time now.
Hope all are well ... off to my sitting bench.
There is a piece that has a bit of peace in understanding this. It hurts, but the pain seems a bit less personal.
This is a really vivid, painful and yet thoughtful experience I am having right now, and seems like the first time I've been grounded enough in the practice to really experience this
I don't know words are not working... it isn't that it doesn't hurt .. it hurts bad ... and I suspect most of you know what I'm trying to say about the teachings seeping into a true understanding instead of being words on a page. That has been my "goal" in practice for some time now.
Hope all are well ... off to my sitting bench.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: California
Posts: 534
I love Refuge Recovery! I don't know much about Buddhism and I'm pretty bad at mediating, but I'm willing to learn.
It seems like the discussions are more about what we are learning about ourselves and the practice rather than what's the worst thing you did as an addict.
It seems like the discussions are more about what we are learning about ourselves and the practice rather than what's the worst thing you did as an addict.
Behold the power of NO
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: WA
Posts: 7,764
Originally Posted by leanabeana
I love Refuge Recovery! I don't know much about Buddhism and I'm pretty bad at mediating, but I'm willing to learn.
It seems like the discussions are more about what we are learning about ourselves and the practice rather than what's the worst thing you did as an addict.
It seems like the discussions are more about what we are learning about ourselves and the practice rather than what's the worst thing you did as an addict.
There is nothing one can do to change the past so while it is good to learn from our mistake it is futile and even toxic to dwell in it.
The future is a question mark and the only thing we can count on is the impermanence of everything.
Focusing on the present and living it to the fullest and doing our best makes sense to me.
One thing I love about my meditation practice and being mindful is that it has helped me tremendously with anxiety.
Glad to have you on board
Member
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 6
Hello
Hi, it's a shame this thread is not more active. I recently found Refuge Recovery and it really appeals to me and the logical way I think. I went to NA years ago but it just wasn't for me. I managed to quit heroin due to my own efforts and stayed drug free for a few years. I drank occasionally but I never really liked it and I only did it in an attempt to be sociable, which never went well. The last few years I've drifted back into cocaine use mixed with alcohol and quite simply while I've had enough of it, I'm struggling with the cravings and random 'go use' thoughts popping up. I'm wondering if learning to meditate might help with that? My plan is to remain totally sober and find recovery, I think it's the best, and only option for me.
I'm currently reading 'Refuge Recovery' which is great, and I have downloaded the podcasts which I'm working my way through. If anyone has any other suggestions or advice I would be grateful for it.
I have an Aspergers diagnosis so I'm not good face to face with people. Meetings would be difficult and I would really struggle with them, but there aren't any Refuge meetings within 100 miles of where I live anyway. I would be prepared to take a risk and push myself to go to a 'mindfulness' meeting no matter how uncomfortable that would be for me, if people thought that would help. Would it?
I'll leave it there for now and say thank you in advance to anyone who has the time to reply.
I'm currently reading 'Refuge Recovery' which is great, and I have downloaded the podcasts which I'm working my way through. If anyone has any other suggestions or advice I would be grateful for it.
I have an Aspergers diagnosis so I'm not good face to face with people. Meetings would be difficult and I would really struggle with them, but there aren't any Refuge meetings within 100 miles of where I live anyway. I would be prepared to take a risk and push myself to go to a 'mindfulness' meeting no matter how uncomfortable that would be for me, if people thought that would help. Would it?
I'll leave it there for now and say thank you in advance to anyone who has the time to reply.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Chester, UK
Posts: 684
Hi Aspieman,
Going to a mindfulness class sounds a great idea to me. Mindfulness and AVRT both really helped me.
A definition of mindfulness I like is Jon-Kabat-Zinn's "Mindfulness is paying attention in a particular way: on purpose, in the present moment, and nonjudgmentally. And, I sometimes like to add, as if your life depends on it."
When applied specifically to cravings, mindfulness is sometimes called urge-surfing. Here's a link to a guided urge-surfing session by Sarah Bowan that I really like. It's only about 8 mins long:
http://depts.washington.edu/abrc/mbr...%20Surfing.mp3
I would be interested to hear how you got on if you do go, or on your views about the audio. No pressure there then!
Going to a mindfulness class sounds a great idea to me. Mindfulness and AVRT both really helped me.
A definition of mindfulness I like is Jon-Kabat-Zinn's "Mindfulness is paying attention in a particular way: on purpose, in the present moment, and nonjudgmentally. And, I sometimes like to add, as if your life depends on it."
When applied specifically to cravings, mindfulness is sometimes called urge-surfing. Here's a link to a guided urge-surfing session by Sarah Bowan that I really like. It's only about 8 mins long:
http://depts.washington.edu/abrc/mbr...%20Surfing.mp3
I would be interested to hear how you got on if you do go, or on your views about the audio. No pressure there then!
Member
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 6
Originally Posted by AlericB
Hi Aspieman,
Going to a mindfulness class sounds a great idea to me. Mindfulness and AVRT both really helped me.
A definition of mindfulness I like is Jon-Kabat-Zinn's "Mindfulness is paying attention in a particular way: on purpose, in the present moment, and nonjudgmentally. And, I sometimes like to add, as if your life depends on it."
When applied specifically to cravings, mindfulness is sometimes called urge-surfing. Here's a link to a guided urge-surfing session by Sarah Bowan that I really like. It's only about 8 mins long.
I would be interested to hear how you got on if you do go, or on your views about the audio. No pressure there then!
Going to a mindfulness class sounds a great idea to me. Mindfulness and AVRT both really helped me.
A definition of mindfulness I like is Jon-Kabat-Zinn's "Mindfulness is paying attention in a particular way: on purpose, in the present moment, and nonjudgmentally. And, I sometimes like to add, as if your life depends on it."
When applied specifically to cravings, mindfulness is sometimes called urge-surfing. Here's a link to a guided urge-surfing session by Sarah Bowan that I really like. It's only about 8 mins long.
I would be interested to hear how you got on if you do go, or on your views about the audio. No pressure there then!
I'm not familiar with AVRT I'll do some research on that. I would definitely add "as if your life depends on it" because that is certainly true for me too. Urge-surfing sounds interesting. I'll definitely try the link you kindly provided when I get home thanks. I'm at work now (construction site) so it's too noisy and chaotic here.
So if you think mindfulness will be helpful I will look into times and places tonight and see how I get on, and I'll gladly give you my views on the audio later on tonight.
Thanks for taking the time to reply.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 6
Originally Posted by Aspieman
Oh that's great thanks for the confirmation! I'm new to all this so I wasn't sure what to do for the best.
I'm not familiar with AVRT I'll do some research on that. I would definitely add "as if your life depends on it" because that is certainly true for me too. Urge-surfing sounds interesting. I'll definitely try the link you kindly provided when I get home thanks. I'm at work now (construction site) so it's too noisy and chaotic here.
So if you think mindfulness will be helpful I will look into times and places tonight and see how I get on, and I'll gladly give you my views on the audio later on tonight.
Thanks for taking the time to reply.
I'm not familiar with AVRT I'll do some research on that. I would definitely add "as if your life depends on it" because that is certainly true for me too. Urge-surfing sounds interesting. I'll definitely try the link you kindly provided when I get home thanks. I'm at work now (construction site) so it's too noisy and chaotic here.
So if you think mindfulness will be helpful I will look into times and places tonight and see how I get on, and I'll gladly give you my views on the audio later on tonight.
Thanks for taking the time to reply.
PS I had to remove the link you provided from my reply or it wouldn't be accepted as I don't have a minimum post count yet.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 2,654
Hi Aspieman, welcome to Secular Connections. I don't have any experience with Refuge Recovery, just AVRT and Mindfullness. I completely agree with Aleric's above comments regarding cravings and Mindfullness. I do hope that you gain some insight by exploring the method, and look forward to hearing your thoughts.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 6
Originally Posted by Tatsy
Hi Aspieman, welcome to Secular Connections. I don't have any experience with Refuge Recovery, just AVRT and Mindfullness. I completely agree with Aleric's above comments regarding cravings and Mindfullness. I do hope that you gain some insight by exploring the method, and look forward to hearing your thoughts.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Chester, UK
Posts: 684
Originally Posted by Aspieman
I'm struggling with the cravings and random 'go use' thoughts popping up. I'm wondering if learning to meditate might help with that?
Originally Posted by Aspieman
My plan is to remain totally sober and find recovery, I think it's the best, and only option for me.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 2,654
Hi Aspieman, I recommended you exploring Mindfullness, in that, I learnt it years ago (amongst other methods and programs) during my long battle to combat my alcohol addiction. I didn't stop drinking with Mindfullness, but we are all different and many people do. As Aleric said, Mindfullness is effectively "Urge Surfing", which many folks on SR use to deal with cravings for their drug of choice. Other folks use "playing the tape forward".
As a consequence of my prior experience of Mindfullness (we are not our habituated thoughts - but the higher part of the brain that experiences those thoughts and their attendant cravings, urges, feelings) when I discovered AVRT here in Secular on SR, it immediately resonated with me. In my experience, it's beneficial to investigate a variety of stop using methods, until you find one that works for you. So yes, Mindfullness is a positive step forwards in your quest, but I don't want to mislead you into thinking that I applied it to stop drinking.
As a consequence of my prior experience of Mindfullness (we are not our habituated thoughts - but the higher part of the brain that experiences those thoughts and their attendant cravings, urges, feelings) when I discovered AVRT here in Secular on SR, it immediately resonated with me. In my experience, it's beneficial to investigate a variety of stop using methods, until you find one that works for you. So yes, Mindfullness is a positive step forwards in your quest, but I don't want to mislead you into thinking that I applied it to stop drinking.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Chester, UK
Posts: 684
I needed both approaches too, like Tatsy.
Essentially, I made the Big Plan promise to myself to never drink again and never change my mind. Reading up on AVRT helped me to identify my Addictive Voice (AV) which it precisely defines as any thought, feeling, sensation, urge etc. that supports, suggests or promotes the possibility of future drinking. Mindfulness helps me separate from it.
As Tatsy said, we have to explore and learn a way that works for us. This forum helps me a lot and I'd encourage you to make use of it as part of your exploration and recovery.
Essentially, I made the Big Plan promise to myself to never drink again and never change my mind. Reading up on AVRT helped me to identify my Addictive Voice (AV) which it precisely defines as any thought, feeling, sensation, urge etc. that supports, suggests or promotes the possibility of future drinking. Mindfulness helps me separate from it.
As Tatsy said, we have to explore and learn a way that works for us. This forum helps me a lot and I'd encourage you to make use of it as part of your exploration and recovery.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 2,578
Hi Aspieman - welcome!
I did attend a couple of Refuge Recovery meetings early on, and found them helpful. I also attended various classes and retreats on mindfulness (not recovery oriented) and found them very helpful for living my life & coping in a healthy way with stress.
If groups are not comfortable for you, fortunately there are a wealth of resources on mindfulness that you can access online and in books. Many, many guided meditations out there, books with instructions, lectures on tape, etc. An example of one such resource is Dharma Seed -- a nonprofit dedicated to making talks and guided meditations available freely to anyone.
Mindfulness helps me with stress and anxiety. It also does help with my sobriety, in that it makes me more aware of my own thoughts. The key for me quitting has been removing alcohol or drugs as an option, under any circumstances, then using AVRT to recognize that any thought that supports drinking/using is the addictive voice (which I do not obey).
There's lots of great info on SR about peoples' different experiences of quitting ... stick around!
I did attend a couple of Refuge Recovery meetings early on, and found them helpful. I also attended various classes and retreats on mindfulness (not recovery oriented) and found them very helpful for living my life & coping in a healthy way with stress.
If groups are not comfortable for you, fortunately there are a wealth of resources on mindfulness that you can access online and in books. Many, many guided meditations out there, books with instructions, lectures on tape, etc. An example of one such resource is Dharma Seed -- a nonprofit dedicated to making talks and guided meditations available freely to anyone.
Mindfulness helps me with stress and anxiety. It also does help with my sobriety, in that it makes me more aware of my own thoughts. The key for me quitting has been removing alcohol or drugs as an option, under any circumstances, then using AVRT to recognize that any thought that supports drinking/using is the addictive voice (which I do not obey).
There's lots of great info on SR about peoples' different experiences of quitting ... stick around!
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