"normal" vs. alcoholic relationships
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Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 2,805
I come to this part of SR because my mother is an alcoholic. I am almost afraid to write this. The superstitious part of me is fearful of jinxing my marriage. That being said, I have been married for over 20 years to my college sweetheart and our relationship is what you described, Black Sabbath. We support and respect each other. We trust each other. We have four children and our family comes first to both of us, sometimes almost to a fault. We never name call. We make up quickly, and we have sex regularly. We do fight on occasion, but we fight fair, for the most part. We look out for each other and we like being with each other. I quit drinking two years ago because I was afraid my excessive social drinking would turn into my mother's full blown alcoholism. My husband supported this by never drinking around me or with me. Essentially, he may have a beer or two at a business function, but that is it. He is not an alcoholic. Our marriage isn't problem free. We have been through major stresses, but we have come out from the other side, stronger. Having both grown up in dysfunctional families, we strived to be different. I think we treasure the love and peace and calm that we have created for ourselves and our children and we do everything we can to protect it. We care for each other deeply.
I have looked at this thread a few times, and hemmed and hawed whether to write this. I didn't want it to make those of you struggling in your marriages sad, but I did want to give you hope. There are good, normal marriages out there. I have one and I thank God for it every single day.
I have looked at this thread a few times, and hemmed and hawed whether to write this. I didn't want it to make those of you struggling in your marriages sad, but I did want to give you hope. There are good, normal marriages out there. I have one and I thank God for it every single day.
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Join Date: May 2012
Location: Florida
Posts: 6,780
Absolutely Dragons - no need to apologize! I'm really glad you posted because in re-reading my own post I realize I missed a critical point I wanted to make. So much for over-editing myself, ha!
My point wasn't just, "hey, everyone is dysfunctional, there is no normal" but more that IF everyone is dysfunctional to some degree then it's in overcoming your dysfunction & working together as a team --- with respect & trust, good communication skills & compromise, etc, exactly as you have described it in the quote above. It's in how we OVERCOME our damage that matters, not so much that the damage exists, because it exists everywhere. Which is also why it takes BOTH people in the relationship to be willing to do the hard work, there is no compromise or communication when it's one-sided. But when that synergy exists, yes, wonderful marriages & partnerships exist as well, IMO.
I am blessed that our first 13-14 yrs were exactly as you describe Dragons, we had years & years & years of minimal differences of opinion, never mind actual disagreements/fights. Someone I had considered a good friend actually said "hey, you had alllll that good for allll those yrs, you have to expect some really, really crappy yrs too." Um, no. I don't. And how rude & unsupportive!
Truth is that most of our real hardships & challenges have happened in that time since & that's when RAH cracked under the stress - when it got REAL. Until then I hadn't really seen how unarmed he was, without any tools to manage stress in any way, because it had never been tested so severely. (which is part of why I'm starting to see his cycle lines up more with undiagnosed ADHD than addiction as a root problem - it doesn't unpickle the cucumber, but it makes sense for him to address this piece in embracing a full recovery.)
I do believe we can get back to a similar if not better place at some point in the future IF he puts in the work. It's been -(like you, I don't want to jinx myself by posting this!)- more ups than downs since the beginning of this year & I can see more words put into action & more active listening & striving to understand/be better, so I have hope. But I've also learned that hope is a lot like detachment - it's a short-term solution. It can only carry me along until respect & trust start to show up, otherwise it just floats away.
Having both grown up in dysfunctional families, we strived to be different. I think we treasure the love and peace and calm that we have created for ourselves and our children and we do everything we can to protect it.
I am blessed that our first 13-14 yrs were exactly as you describe Dragons, we had years & years & years of minimal differences of opinion, never mind actual disagreements/fights. Someone I had considered a good friend actually said "hey, you had alllll that good for allll those yrs, you have to expect some really, really crappy yrs too." Um, no. I don't. And how rude & unsupportive!
Truth is that most of our real hardships & challenges have happened in that time since & that's when RAH cracked under the stress - when it got REAL. Until then I hadn't really seen how unarmed he was, without any tools to manage stress in any way, because it had never been tested so severely. (which is part of why I'm starting to see his cycle lines up more with undiagnosed ADHD than addiction as a root problem - it doesn't unpickle the cucumber, but it makes sense for him to address this piece in embracing a full recovery.)
I do believe we can get back to a similar if not better place at some point in the future IF he puts in the work. It's been -(like you, I don't want to jinx myself by posting this!)- more ups than downs since the beginning of this year & I can see more words put into action & more active listening & striving to understand/be better, so I have hope. But I've also learned that hope is a lot like detachment - it's a short-term solution. It can only carry me along until respect & trust start to show up, otherwise it just floats away.
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Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: USA
Posts: 574
There is no 'normal' with an active user or a recovering addict within the first year or more. And sometimes, forever. When you find 'normal' you will recognize it right away 
Try not to obsess over this. It will happen in it's own time. Best wishes with your little ones and your business ! Stay strong BS
Try not to obsess over this. It will happen in it's own time. Best wishes with your little ones and your business ! Stay strong BS
Member
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 685
BlackSabbath - your description of "normal" relationships is a good one. I have that now.
What kinds of problems do we have? Well, we get tired and stressed from work. When my partner gets angry (very rare) he tends to not confront me directly but instead makes snide, passive aggressive comments. However if I call him on it he'll stop and we can discuss the issue. We are together over 15 years and I have *never* heard him raise his voice! This is like night and day from my ex-H.
If anything gets misplaced in the house I *always* feel like he thinks it's my fault since I am less organized and less apt to return things to their places. TBH I can't remember their places lol. So now and then there is a conflict about this.
Conflicts are mild and short-lived and don't happen very much. We trust each other. We don't look at each other's phones. We can both be counted on to be home, or work, or whatever when we say that is where we'll be. We spend evenings together and sleep together.
My ex-H was not an A but he had a bad temper, was prone to depression, and could not be relied on emotionally. So I didn't. Very early in our marriage I developed my own life. I had our kids, jobs, friends and little to do with my H. Needless to say it was not a fulfilling marriage and it ended. He was cheating on me and by the time I found out I didn't care as my feelings had died long before. This was without addiction in the mix although his temper and black moods, IMO, were outside of "normal" if that makes any sense.
My four year relationship with an addict was filled with chaos, drama, violence, constant lies, problems with the law, overdose, on and on, like so many here describe.
I'd say the overriding aspects we all deserve and look for from a partner are trust, respect, peace and companionship. I hope you find this. You deserve it. It's out there!
What kinds of problems do we have? Well, we get tired and stressed from work. When my partner gets angry (very rare) he tends to not confront me directly but instead makes snide, passive aggressive comments. However if I call him on it he'll stop and we can discuss the issue. We are together over 15 years and I have *never* heard him raise his voice! This is like night and day from my ex-H.
If anything gets misplaced in the house I *always* feel like he thinks it's my fault since I am less organized and less apt to return things to their places. TBH I can't remember their places lol. So now and then there is a conflict about this.
Conflicts are mild and short-lived and don't happen very much. We trust each other. We don't look at each other's phones. We can both be counted on to be home, or work, or whatever when we say that is where we'll be. We spend evenings together and sleep together.
My ex-H was not an A but he had a bad temper, was prone to depression, and could not be relied on emotionally. So I didn't. Very early in our marriage I developed my own life. I had our kids, jobs, friends and little to do with my H. Needless to say it was not a fulfilling marriage and it ended. He was cheating on me and by the time I found out I didn't care as my feelings had died long before. This was without addiction in the mix although his temper and black moods, IMO, were outside of "normal" if that makes any sense.
My four year relationship with an addict was filled with chaos, drama, violence, constant lies, problems with the law, overdose, on and on, like so many here describe.
I'd say the overriding aspects we all deserve and look for from a partner are trust, respect, peace and companionship. I hope you find this. You deserve it. It's out there!
Last edited by 53500; 09-05-2015 at 07:29 AM. Reason: Added something
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Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,349
Originally Posted by Bernadette777 
How I love that sentence "NEVER EVER let another person define who you are or what your happiness level is! Amen Hallelujah!!
BlackSabbath, I just got out of a 20 year marriage to an alcoholic. He, too, used to get mad at me for being happy all the time. I wasn't really always happy, I was just a more positive person and things that bothered him for weeks would only bother me for an hour and I'd be over it or I'd have addressed it in my mind and moved on. But, his anger about my attitude about life was very draining for me. It sucked out my soul and I felt crushed, like I couldn't breathe, and like I was sinking into a dark deep hole even though I would never say that I was depressed.
I was floundering, falling down a hole that he was falling further into and I couldn't grab a root, a branch, get a foot hold, or anything on my way down. The light at the top grew dimmer and I finally knew I had to leave. I couldn't stay 'for our son', I couldn't' stay for the 'financial benefits' anymore.......it was over and I needed to start over. And, somehow, today it is OK. I'm Ok and my son is OK and life is good.....but, to me, life has always been good even when I was falling into that deep dark hole called my XAH's empty soul. I hurt for him today. I pray for him daily. It must be an awful way to live.
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Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 314
Sometimes I fall into that trap too... The one where you start to doubt yourself and think that it might not have been that bad.
But it would have been that bad, because you felt you had no other option left but to leave. No one wants to go through a relationship break up. I'm sure if the issues were workable issues, you would have done just that. But they weren't. And one person can't work on issues while the other checks out.
Sometimes those thoughts come up for me when I am having a moment of deep pain and sadness and am really struggling to accept reality (the end of my marriage). In some way, i try and find reasons (like maybe my expectations were too high) to reconsider the relationship because it hurts to deal with reality.
Just keep feeling what you feel and know that it's normal. Those feelings of self doubt will pass. Maybe crop up again. Then pass again.
To answer your question about whether he has not contacted you because he knows he isn't a good influence right now, I think it's possible. His self worth could be pretty low and he could be very depressed... but, it's probably more likely that he has abandoned his responsibilities because he is not capable of handling them. That is not the type of partner you want. And it's not an ideal relationship.
You did the right thing.
But it would have been that bad, because you felt you had no other option left but to leave. No one wants to go through a relationship break up. I'm sure if the issues were workable issues, you would have done just that. But they weren't. And one person can't work on issues while the other checks out.
Sometimes those thoughts come up for me when I am having a moment of deep pain and sadness and am really struggling to accept reality (the end of my marriage). In some way, i try and find reasons (like maybe my expectations were too high) to reconsider the relationship because it hurts to deal with reality.
Just keep feeling what you feel and know that it's normal. Those feelings of self doubt will pass. Maybe crop up again. Then pass again.
To answer your question about whether he has not contacted you because he knows he isn't a good influence right now, I think it's possible. His self worth could be pretty low and he could be very depressed... but, it's probably more likely that he has abandoned his responsibilities because he is not capable of handling them. That is not the type of partner you want. And it's not an ideal relationship.
You did the right thing.
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Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Real World
Posts: 729
Originally Posted by JOIE12
There is no 'normal' with an active user or a recovering addict within the first year or more. And sometimes, forever. When you find 'normal' you will recognize it right away Try not to obsess over this. It will happen in it's own time. Best wishes with your little ones and your business ! Stay strong BS
Try not to obsess over this. It will happen in it's own time. Best wishes with your little ones and your business ! Stay strong BSit seems many try to drink like them, to act like them in a marriage. to be included in their secret meetings and rituals but like Sasquatch and Nessie are we really sure this mythical Normal person exists? That poor, boring, beige, bland SOB must have such an uninteresting life.
I've gone to replacing 'Normal' with 'Typical'. There is no such thing as normal, we're all a little off here and there from what's TYPICAL.
Normal? That's a lot more uncommon than screwy, we nutcases are fairly typical ;-)
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Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: UK
Posts: 278
Hi BlackSabbath,
You DO know what 'normal' or, more importantly, what 'healthy' is. You've described it very clearly in your original post! The truth is that most people don't have particularly rewarding relationships but, for them, staying in them is more comfortable than being alone.
As you know, though, you don't stand a snowball's chance in hell of achieving a healthy relationship with any kind of emotionally unavailable person - not just addicts.
The following article is one I've found very helpful, and I'm posting it on here in case others do, too! Do you want to be with an emotionally available person? Be emotionally available YOURSELF | Baggage Reclaim by Natalie Lue
You DO know what 'normal' or, more importantly, what 'healthy' is. You've described it very clearly in your original post! The truth is that most people don't have particularly rewarding relationships but, for them, staying in them is more comfortable than being alone.
As you know, though, you don't stand a snowball's chance in hell of achieving a healthy relationship with any kind of emotionally unavailable person - not just addicts.
The following article is one I've found very helpful, and I'm posting it on here in case others do, too! Do you want to be with an emotionally available person? Be emotionally available YOURSELF | Baggage Reclaim by Natalie Lue
Member
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 390
Originally Posted by 53500
BlackSabbath - your description of "normal" relationships is a good one. I have that now.
What kinds of problems do we have? Well, we get tired and stressed from work. When my partner gets angry (very rare) he tends to not confront me directly but instead makes snide, passive aggressive comments. However if I call him on it he'll stop and we can discuss the issue. We are together over 15 years and I have *never* heard him raise his voice! This is like night and day from my ex-H.
If anything gets misplaced in the house I *always* feel like he thinks it's my fault since I am less organized and less apt to return things to their places. TBH I can't remember their places lol. So now and then there is a conflict about this.
Conflicts are mild and short-lived and don't happen very much. We trust each other. We don't look at each other's phones. We can both be counted on to be home, or work, or whatever when we say that is where we'll be. We spend evenings together and sleep together.
My ex-H was not an A but he had a bad temper, was prone to depression, and could not be relied on emotionally. So I didn't. Very early in our marriage I developed my own life. I had our kids, jobs, friends and little to do with my H. Needless to say it was not a fulfilling marriage and it ended. He was cheating on me and by the time I found out I didn't care as my feelings had died long before. This was without addiction in the mix although his temper and black moods, IMO, were outside of "normal" if that makes any sense.
My four year relationship with an addict was filled with chaos, drama, violence, constant lies, problems with the law, overdose, on and on, like so many here describe.
I'd say the overriding aspects we all deserve and look for from a partner are trust, respect, peace and companionship. I hope you find this. You deserve it. It's out there!
What kinds of problems do we have? Well, we get tired and stressed from work. When my partner gets angry (very rare) he tends to not confront me directly but instead makes snide, passive aggressive comments. However if I call him on it he'll stop and we can discuss the issue. We are together over 15 years and I have *never* heard him raise his voice! This is like night and day from my ex-H.
If anything gets misplaced in the house I *always* feel like he thinks it's my fault since I am less organized and less apt to return things to their places. TBH I can't remember their places lol. So now and then there is a conflict about this.
Conflicts are mild and short-lived and don't happen very much. We trust each other. We don't look at each other's phones. We can both be counted on to be home, or work, or whatever when we say that is where we'll be. We spend evenings together and sleep together.
My ex-H was not an A but he had a bad temper, was prone to depression, and could not be relied on emotionally. So I didn't. Very early in our marriage I developed my own life. I had our kids, jobs, friends and little to do with my H. Needless to say it was not a fulfilling marriage and it ended. He was cheating on me and by the time I found out I didn't care as my feelings had died long before. This was without addiction in the mix although his temper and black moods, IMO, were outside of "normal" if that makes any sense.
My four year relationship with an addict was filled with chaos, drama, violence, constant lies, problems with the law, overdose, on and on, like so many here describe.
I'd say the overriding aspects we all deserve and look for from a partner are trust, respect, peace and companionship. I hope you find this. You deserve it. It's out there!
Reading this type of comments always brings me hope.
Thanks for sharing this,
Member
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 390
Originally Posted by Rosalba
Hi BlackSabbath,
You DO know what 'normal' or, more importantly, what 'healthy' is. You've described it very clearly in your original post! The truth is that most people don't have particularly rewarding relationships but, for them, staying in them is more comfortable than being alone.
As you know, though, you don't stand a snowball's chance in hell of achieving a healthy relationship with any kind of emotionally unavailable person - not just addicts.
The following article is one I've found very helpful, and I'm posting it on here in case others do, too! Do you want to be with an emotionally available person? Be emotionally available YOURSELF | Baggage Reclaim by Natalie Lue
You DO know what 'normal' or, more importantly, what 'healthy' is. You've described it very clearly in your original post! The truth is that most people don't have particularly rewarding relationships but, for them, staying in them is more comfortable than being alone.
As you know, though, you don't stand a snowball's chance in hell of achieving a healthy relationship with any kind of emotionally unavailable person - not just addicts.
The following article is one I've found very helpful, and I'm posting it on here in case others do, too! Do you want to be with an emotionally available person? Be emotionally available YOURSELF | Baggage Reclaim by Natalie Lue
Natalie Lue's writings are very helpful in this types of situations!
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