Ann's Thread About Working Through Stuff...please join me.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 1,698
Originally Posted by Ann 
Anna, writing definitely helps me categorize my feelings and then I can go back and identify "why" I feel that way. I sometimes see the feelings quickly but getting to the cause is important. And then deciding what to do about them takes away the power they have over me.
Your recovery has always been an inspiration to me too, you have a quiet inner peace that I strive for, and I'm happy to have you share in this thread.
Ilovemysonjj, I am so glad things are going well for him in rehab and keep him in my prayers. Working through fear is a biggie for me too. How do you do that? Working through fear can be tough, what helps you most when fear sneaks in?
I realize my first post is very long and hope that doesn't discourage anyone from sharing. It doesn't have to be long or formal, or more than one thing at a time.
Your recovery has always been an inspiration to me too, you have a quiet inner peace that I strive for, and I'm happy to have you share in this thread.
Ilovemysonjj, I am so glad things are going well for him in rehab and keep him in my prayers. Working through fear is a biggie for me too. How do you do that? Working through fear can be tough, what helps you most when fear sneaks in?
I realize my first post is very long and hope that doesn't discourage anyone from sharing. It doesn't have to be long or formal, or more than one thing at a time.
Nature Girl
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: By The Lake
Posts: 60,328
jjj111 and Poolsidegal, thanks for the links and go-to information. I will check them all out.
Cece, I love the idea of renting a cabin and spending a whole day and night surrounded by autumn splendour. PA is a lovely state and if I lived closer, I'd rent the next cabin down...and let you be alone but maybe we could share cheesecake before bedtime. I am one of the few people I know who embrace solitude...which is quite different from isolation because it brings quietude and peace. It's a place to express and let go instead of hiding and stuffing. I cannot recall ever being lonely, I suppose it could happen over time, but I love solitude and peace and nature enough that "lonely" is one emotion that isn't on my list...thank goodness.
Fandy, I know the struggle you have been through with your daughter and my heart hurts for you because I know the pain of watching our adult children take bad paths.
Doing nothing is an action, Fandy. It's a conscious choice to not engage in her nonsense, to not "react" to her rants but instead "act" from a place of stability when you do connect with her husband. This is truly a fine example of "detaching with love"...even if you grit your teeth at the same time, lol. It takes time and work and a lot of self-care to get past the abusive attitude and bad choices of our adult kids.
Bim, maybe that's the answer to why we love nature...it is bigger than us, bigger than our problems, bigger than our circumstance and a wonderful example of how the world goes on and on no matter how much we screw it up.
Ilovemysonjj, you brought up a very important point here..."identifying" our feelings. When we are just overwhelmed or in a funk or really really on edge and don't quite know how to put our fingers on the cause, it is hard to say "I feel this, so I will do that to overcome it". That's where writing helps me because it doesn't have to make sense. I can say "I feel like a herd of elephants just stampeded over my heart" and then later try to figure out what that means. Like Bim, sometimes I write now while it is on my mind and then come back later to take pause and think about it.
You also mentioned the PTSD that many of us go through, I know I still do some days but it's not as bad as it used to be...a work in progress for me. Those of us who have this, have it because we were traumatized and didn't even know it. Bizarre became our "normal". Normal people don't drive at midnight through neighbourhoods where no mama should ever drive..."normal" mamas don't threaten to kick down a crackhouse door if her son doesn't come out...normal children don't steal thousands of dollars and lie to parents who have shown them nothing but love and respect...normal mama's dont dig under the beds in a men's shelter looking for her son's stuff so she can take it to him at detox...normal people don't hide from the mob or bikers because their kids made bad friends. This WAS my normal for years and years and what kept me going was adrenaline and fear. Normal people cannot live on adrenaline and fear 24/7 for years and years.
So PTSD is a very important part of working through our stuff. Something I think we will use as a topic to discuss here as something difficult to process.
I love what you all have shared, we come from many different situations, many sides of recovery, and yet, in the end, the path of recovery is very much the same for all of us.
I hope more people will come on and share, sharing our light will help others who can't find their own right now. I know I am ever grateful to those who went before me and shone their light to follow.
Hugs
Cece, I love the idea of renting a cabin and spending a whole day and night surrounded by autumn splendour. PA is a lovely state and if I lived closer, I'd rent the next cabin down...and let you be alone but maybe we could share cheesecake before bedtime. I am one of the few people I know who embrace solitude...which is quite different from isolation because it brings quietude and peace. It's a place to express and let go instead of hiding and stuffing. I cannot recall ever being lonely, I suppose it could happen over time, but I love solitude and peace and nature enough that "lonely" is one emotion that isn't on my list...thank goodness.
Fandy, I know the struggle you have been through with your daughter and my heart hurts for you because I know the pain of watching our adult children take bad paths.
Originally Posted by Fandy
it's ok to just not do anything. i don't cut her out of my life, but i ingore her rants and raves and stated that she can play the victim all she wants. I maintain good relations with her husband without stepping over the line (make that a brick wall) she claims is her boundary. What will happen will happen to her, not me. I maintain my stability and can recover the 12K back into my retirement account.
Bim, maybe that's the answer to why we love nature...it is bigger than us, bigger than our problems, bigger than our circumstance and a wonderful example of how the world goes on and on no matter how much we screw it up.
Ilovemysonjj, you brought up a very important point here..."identifying" our feelings. When we are just overwhelmed or in a funk or really really on edge and don't quite know how to put our fingers on the cause, it is hard to say "I feel this, so I will do that to overcome it". That's where writing helps me because it doesn't have to make sense. I can say "I feel like a herd of elephants just stampeded over my heart" and then later try to figure out what that means. Like Bim, sometimes I write now while it is on my mind and then come back later to take pause and think about it.
You also mentioned the PTSD that many of us go through, I know I still do some days but it's not as bad as it used to be...a work in progress for me. Those of us who have this, have it because we were traumatized and didn't even know it. Bizarre became our "normal". Normal people don't drive at midnight through neighbourhoods where no mama should ever drive..."normal" mamas don't threaten to kick down a crackhouse door if her son doesn't come out...normal children don't steal thousands of dollars and lie to parents who have shown them nothing but love and respect...normal mama's dont dig under the beds in a men's shelter looking for her son's stuff so she can take it to him at detox...normal people don't hide from the mob or bikers because their kids made bad friends. This WAS my normal for years and years and what kept me going was adrenaline and fear. Normal people cannot live on adrenaline and fear 24/7 for years and years.
So PTSD is a very important part of working through our stuff. Something I think we will use as a topic to discuss here as something difficult to process.
I love what you all have shared, we come from many different situations, many sides of recovery, and yet, in the end, the path of recovery is very much the same for all of us.
I hope more people will come on and share, sharing our light will help others who can't find their own right now. I know I am ever grateful to those who went before me and shone their light to follow.
Hugs
Nature Girl
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: By The Lake
Posts: 60,328
I want to share a little about "distraction", one of my recovery tools that keeps me from obsessing when my thoughts head down a dark alley.
Distraction isn't "stuffing" or denial or avoidance, it's a head slap to get my thoughts back to a healthy place. It's okay to have sad days or if old memories sneak back to jump out at you when you're not looking...these are called triggers, things that "set us off" and take us to no place good. It's just not good to hang out there too long.
When I finally quite smoking, my "distraction" tactics served me well. I tuned my brain to go from "cravings for a cigarette" to the thought "NOT AN OPTION"...and did this every time an urge went through my mind. Kind of like snapping the elastic on our wrist but instead jolting my mind back to common sense...and the second part was to DO something immediately. If I was at work, I would walk to the ladies room or outside the building for a moment and look out the windows on the way and notice the clouds in the sky and then maybe take a minute to try to remember all my teachers' names through public school. That's all it took for me, once I really made up my mind to quit.
Same goes for my codependent feelings. I read a good book that will take me someplace else or I go on the internet and plan a trip to Rome and look at hotels and sights and scenery...even though I don't really plan to go to Rome any time soon, just to take my mind there for a while. Getting out for a walk in nature always picks me up and gives me something else lovely to look at and "experience" as I go.
Distraction is an important tool, I think. It take planning and practice but becomes automatic once we get used to the idea and decide we like it.
Maybe others could share what they do to distract themselves from their thoughts, obsessions or situation. Let's give the newcomers one of the tools to practice with as they go.
Distraction isn't "stuffing" or denial or avoidance, it's a head slap to get my thoughts back to a healthy place. It's okay to have sad days or if old memories sneak back to jump out at you when you're not looking...these are called triggers, things that "set us off" and take us to no place good. It's just not good to hang out there too long.
When I finally quite smoking, my "distraction" tactics served me well. I tuned my brain to go from "cravings for a cigarette" to the thought "NOT AN OPTION"...and did this every time an urge went through my mind. Kind of like snapping the elastic on our wrist but instead jolting my mind back to common sense...and the second part was to DO something immediately. If I was at work, I would walk to the ladies room or outside the building for a moment and look out the windows on the way and notice the clouds in the sky and then maybe take a minute to try to remember all my teachers' names through public school. That's all it took for me, once I really made up my mind to quit.
Same goes for my codependent feelings. I read a good book that will take me someplace else or I go on the internet and plan a trip to Rome and look at hotels and sights and scenery...even though I don't really plan to go to Rome any time soon, just to take my mind there for a while. Getting out for a walk in nature always picks me up and gives me something else lovely to look at and "experience" as I go.
Distraction is an important tool, I think. It take planning and practice but becomes automatic once we get used to the idea and decide we like it.
Maybe others could share what they do to distract themselves from their thoughts, obsessions or situation. Let's give the newcomers one of the tools to practice with as they go.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: NJ
Posts: 20,458
my distraction is planned for the weekend....it involves my other favorite website. UN-EFF your Habitat.....let the donation piles begin.....
I distract myself myself by making my space clean and serene....it does help a lot.
I distract myself myself by making my space clean and serene....it does help a lot.
Member
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 4
Thank you Ann for this thread and I'm praying for your H.
This is so timely for yesterday was just a bad , in the pit day. I can usually stay above and not slide into the really sad , hopeless pit.
For some reason it all caught up with me yesterday. My RAS? Seems really depressed, a divorce is looming over his head and my DIL is taking our one and only grandchild back to live in her home country( across the world). I get on FB(yes I'm starting to hate it too) and all I see are my friends and families surrounded by their children and grandchildren.
I have also been isolating because the tears and fears are right on the surface.
I grabbed my rollerblades and skated on our greenway with just a touch of fall in the air. I was near tears but smiled at everyone on the trail. Halfway through I was thinking" thank you HP for this beautiful day". Between the music, the movement , acknowledging other people, my whole mood shifted.
That was truly amazing and i believe in the power of prayer , distraction and exercise.
This is so timely for yesterday was just a bad , in the pit day. I can usually stay above and not slide into the really sad , hopeless pit.
For some reason it all caught up with me yesterday. My RAS? Seems really depressed, a divorce is looming over his head and my DIL is taking our one and only grandchild back to live in her home country( across the world). I get on FB(yes I'm starting to hate it too) and all I see are my friends and families surrounded by their children and grandchildren.
I have also been isolating because the tears and fears are right on the surface.
I grabbed my rollerblades and skated on our greenway with just a touch of fall in the air. I was near tears but smiled at everyone on the trail. Halfway through I was thinking" thank you HP for this beautiful day". Between the music, the movement , acknowledging other people, my whole mood shifted.
That was truly amazing and i believe in the power of prayer , distraction and exercise.
Nature Girl
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: By The Lake
Posts: 60,328
Originally Posted by Fabrication
I have also been isolating because the tears and fears are right on the surface.
I grabbed my rollerblades and skated on our greenway with just a touch of fall in the air. I was near tears but smiled at everyone on the trail. Halfway through I was thinking" thank you HP for this beautiful day". Between the music, the movement , acknowledging other people, my whole mood shifted.
That was truly amazing and i believe in the power of prayer , distraction and exercise.
I grabbed my rollerblades and skated on our greenway with just a touch of fall in the air. I was near tears but smiled at everyone on the trail. Halfway through I was thinking" thank you HP for this beautiful day". Between the music, the movement , acknowledging other people, my whole mood shifted.
That was truly amazing and i believe in the power of prayer , distraction and exercise.
That was a wonderful choice to get out and burn off some of your anxiety and wrap yourself in the beauty of the day. I know too well how tears can be right at the surface even when we smile, but getting out and breathing good air and exercising through walking or blading or riding...all healthy tools to use to keep us out of the dark funk.
And I too lost my grandchildren when their mothers (two different relationships over the years) made a choice to detach from my son...a choice I respect and admire and one that is in the best interest of the children but one that can bring sadness too. I have become a very "special" great aunt to my great nephews and nieces, so somewhere along the way it all balances out.
Nature Girl
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: By The Lake
Posts: 60,328
Facing Fears
A few years back I went through a very dark period in my life, it was a time where I was engulfed in fear, all day every day and every night I had night terrors so bad that I thought I would go mad. Insomnia set in every night and I would go to work with sometimes as little as 2 hours sleep. Fear would kill me if I didn't do something about it.
A very wise lady here who has faced her own demons over the years, Morning Glory, told me back then that "the only way to get past fear is to look it square in the eye and walk through it".
It took me a while to figure out what that meant but I was willing...no, desperate...to try.
So again writing helped me with this. When I write I don't have to hold so much in my head and it helps me release it to somewhere besides my brain...if that makes sense.
I sorted my fear by categories, it helps me to break things down into small pieces because I then do not have to handle all of it at once and it becomes less overwhelming. Some of the fears I remember were...
I was afraid that my son would die or almost worse, live a miserable life when his mind was completely gone from using drugs for so many years.
I was afraid of where his life would take him and afraid that I would never see him again or even know where or how he is.
I was afraid of the people he had become enemies with...bikers and mobsters and gangs. I was afraid for him and afraid for us and have never used public socializing, like Facebook, because of this. I don't want to be easily found by people who know that hurting me would hurt him.
I was afraid of where my life had brought me and where it was taking me. I was afraid of dying myself.
Those were just a few but perhaps the strongest of my fears and the ones that had the most power over me.
After writing them down, I wrote next to them the "what if's". "If he disappeared, what would I do?" and then I'd write my answers. I chose this one as an example because this one did happen. My son has been missing over 10 years, lost in his addiction somewhere. When I wrote down my answers at the time, I had no idea how well I could continue living my life even though he had chosen to live his in the darkness of addiction. At the time, I believe I wrote down something like "I would pray for God to take care of him and continue my own recovery to find the courage to continue my life." And I did.
Today I embrace every sunrise and live my life well...no matter what it hands me along the way. Sure, I am still afraid sometimes, that's a normal response to some of the things life hands us. But I don't "live" in fear, I feel it for a while and think about it, then I look it square in the eye and walk through it. The good advice Morning Glory gave me way back when, still applies today and has helped to never get stuck in that dark place of fear again.
How about others here? How do you identify your fear and what do you do to endure it/get past it/grow from it?
I'd love to hear more from all of you.
Hugs (and thank you for sharing so much and so well here, I hope those who are new to all this can pick up some helpful hints.)
A few years back I went through a very dark period in my life, it was a time where I was engulfed in fear, all day every day and every night I had night terrors so bad that I thought I would go mad. Insomnia set in every night and I would go to work with sometimes as little as 2 hours sleep. Fear would kill me if I didn't do something about it.
A very wise lady here who has faced her own demons over the years, Morning Glory, told me back then that "the only way to get past fear is to look it square in the eye and walk through it".
It took me a while to figure out what that meant but I was willing...no, desperate...to try.
So again writing helped me with this. When I write I don't have to hold so much in my head and it helps me release it to somewhere besides my brain...if that makes sense.
I sorted my fear by categories, it helps me to break things down into small pieces because I then do not have to handle all of it at once and it becomes less overwhelming. Some of the fears I remember were...
I was afraid that my son would die or almost worse, live a miserable life when his mind was completely gone from using drugs for so many years.
I was afraid of where his life would take him and afraid that I would never see him again or even know where or how he is.
I was afraid of the people he had become enemies with...bikers and mobsters and gangs. I was afraid for him and afraid for us and have never used public socializing, like Facebook, because of this. I don't want to be easily found by people who know that hurting me would hurt him.
I was afraid of where my life had brought me and where it was taking me. I was afraid of dying myself.
Those were just a few but perhaps the strongest of my fears and the ones that had the most power over me.
After writing them down, I wrote next to them the "what if's". "If he disappeared, what would I do?" and then I'd write my answers. I chose this one as an example because this one did happen. My son has been missing over 10 years, lost in his addiction somewhere. When I wrote down my answers at the time, I had no idea how well I could continue living my life even though he had chosen to live his in the darkness of addiction. At the time, I believe I wrote down something like "I would pray for God to take care of him and continue my own recovery to find the courage to continue my life." And I did.
Today I embrace every sunrise and live my life well...no matter what it hands me along the way. Sure, I am still afraid sometimes, that's a normal response to some of the things life hands us. But I don't "live" in fear, I feel it for a while and think about it, then I look it square in the eye and walk through it. The good advice Morning Glory gave me way back when, still applies today and has helped to never get stuck in that dark place of fear again.
How about others here? How do you identify your fear and what do you do to endure it/get past it/grow from it?
I'd love to hear more from all of you.
Hugs (and thank you for sharing so much and so well here, I hope those who are new to all this can pick up some helpful hints.)
Member
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 117
Whats wrong?
Obsessively worrying about how my grandson will feel when he (someday) hears the story of his father. Will he feel abandoned? Will HE turn to drugs? Will he want to find him? Will he be mad at my daughter and blame her??? So many ????? There are very sad, but necessary, legal steps being taken right now and I guess I have mixed feelings about it.
What I'm doing:
I decided to start a journal and in it write to "future" him. I haven't told anyone about it and plan to save it until his 18th birthday (he's 1 now
). The goal is for him to see how much he's loved and to tell him everyday things about his life or the people in his life. The thing is, in 17 years we will have lost family members...some that he won't even remember...but who knew and loved him.
Obsessively worrying about how my grandson will feel when he (someday) hears the story of his father. Will he feel abandoned? Will HE turn to drugs? Will he want to find him? Will he be mad at my daughter and blame her??? So many ????? There are very sad, but necessary, legal steps being taken right now and I guess I have mixed feelings about it.
What I'm doing:
I decided to start a journal and in it write to "future" him. I haven't told anyone about it and plan to save it until his 18th birthday (he's 1 now
). The goal is for him to see how much he's loved and to tell him everyday things about his life or the people in his life. The thing is, in 17 years we will have lost family members...some that he won't even remember...but who knew and loved him.
Nature Girl
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: By The Lake
Posts: 60,328
MamaCas, that really touched my heart, what a wonderful thing to do and I think he will truly get a better grasp of his history growing up and how much he is loved through that jounal.
From your fears and worry is coming something positive and productive, it helps you and will help him too.
Hugs
From your fears and worry is coming something positive and productive, it helps you and will help him too.
Hugs
Member
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 923
So giving this a try...
What's Wrong?
I was let go from my job 2 days ago....and am working to overcome this. I feel very anxious and I have been feeling anxious...there have been many challenges over the past many years...and husband and I have needed to be separated the past 5 months to complete construction commitments from the family company that we have been trying to keep alive and me working on the outside.
I have been working at reaching out but mostly on Skype to friends who are not from my neighborhood and, in talking to my husband, we agreed not to tell our adult kids as our financial difficulties and working to 'help' 3 through addiction has not been appreciated but rather I am blamed for much...and so I am working with someone to set boundaries...and that made them more angry.
Until Tuesday morning, I could drown all that in work and work like a trojan...but I got more and more stressed and in some ways it was a relief to be laid off...and now I am just seeking God's will and help with my recovery plan which I hope I am keeping.
What I Did About It
I wrote a list last night of what to do today...kept it simple...and focused...1. Get up at regular time (7 am) 2) Buy new recharge cord for computer, 3) Reactivate phone (which got turned off when husband went down to Chile again in April (he usually paid bills and i worked...but I was so overwhelmed...so got turned off).
When I got up this morning realized that I could take my oatmeal and coffee to a beach nearby (thank you Ann for the idea) and I went there...and also started taking little steps to straightening up clutter since I have been overwhelmed at work...my therapist says trying to please those who won't be pleased.
I went and enjoyed breakfrast and then came back and did all three things...have a few more steps on the phone, but need it to file for unemployment...so will take the next steps.
I am very grateful for the ocean and waves that I got to see and it relaxed me enough to get these things done...and to further open my heart and my mind to what God may have for me that I am too uptight to hear or see right now.
Question: What are your feelings right now? and Why?
My Answers:
I feel fear and afraid...of not being able to find another job in my field at 60...financial management...and also inadquate to being as tough and cold as so many company's seem to require now...I love my peeps at work but the dynamics at work have change...
I also feel confused about direction...where to go; how to present myself...who I can trust. I feel like I need to just do what I can do...instead of the 9-12 hour days I have been for 14 months trying to 'prove' myself and to let go, let God...there is a lot to let go, let God from.
I feel desperate as if I need my husband to come back soonest, but I know he needs to finish this contract for the friend/client who tried to help us restart in Chile and also who, 40 years ago...when we were just starting out...lent Miguel the money to fly to Chile to see his father as he was ill and had just a few days to live.
I feel grateful to this man...and I am glad Miguel chose to go down and honor this friendship although it has been hard on both of us...to be apart...and in such uncertainty for so long.
I feel alone and lonely and that is something that I am having to get used to as Miguel and I have been going through a lot for a long time...and have stayed with one another through very hard times...and here is another...but I am feeling better and know that rest and straightening up the clutter that has built up in my apartment are two things I can do.
What will I do to dispel the power I have given those feelings above?
I am thinking and writing down all the things and people I am grateful for...present and past.
The next two things I copied from Ann as I don't have better words:
I will be grateful that I have courage and strength to face whatever lies ahead.
I will be grateful for my faith and trust (two similar but different things, to me) and stop trying to run the world and let God lead me to where I am supposed to go and to take care of my financial needs and also my husband's timing in coming back.
I prayed and asked God to help me and God is helping me...picked up some more clutter when I got home...and will continue to take bites out of the elephant...as I have a woman friend coming tomorrow to spend the weekend.
Although I have been 'doing' recovery for a long time...there is always more for me to learn and to take in...and I am very grateful for this particular thread which was 'just right' for me...and gave me a place to be safe...and not stay too much in my mind.
God Bless.
What's Wrong?
I was let go from my job 2 days ago....and am working to overcome this. I feel very anxious and I have been feeling anxious...there have been many challenges over the past many years...and husband and I have needed to be separated the past 5 months to complete construction commitments from the family company that we have been trying to keep alive and me working on the outside.
I have been working at reaching out but mostly on Skype to friends who are not from my neighborhood and, in talking to my husband, we agreed not to tell our adult kids as our financial difficulties and working to 'help' 3 through addiction has not been appreciated but rather I am blamed for much...and so I am working with someone to set boundaries...and that made them more angry.
Until Tuesday morning, I could drown all that in work and work like a trojan...but I got more and more stressed and in some ways it was a relief to be laid off...and now I am just seeking God's will and help with my recovery plan which I hope I am keeping.
What I Did About It
I wrote a list last night of what to do today...kept it simple...and focused...1. Get up at regular time (7 am) 2) Buy new recharge cord for computer, 3) Reactivate phone (which got turned off when husband went down to Chile again in April (he usually paid bills and i worked...but I was so overwhelmed...so got turned off).
When I got up this morning realized that I could take my oatmeal and coffee to a beach nearby (thank you Ann for the idea) and I went there...and also started taking little steps to straightening up clutter since I have been overwhelmed at work...my therapist says trying to please those who won't be pleased.
I went and enjoyed breakfrast and then came back and did all three things...have a few more steps on the phone, but need it to file for unemployment...so will take the next steps.
I am very grateful for the ocean and waves that I got to see and it relaxed me enough to get these things done...and to further open my heart and my mind to what God may have for me that I am too uptight to hear or see right now.
Question: What are your feelings right now? and Why?
My Answers:
I feel fear and afraid...of not being able to find another job in my field at 60...financial management...and also inadquate to being as tough and cold as so many company's seem to require now...I love my peeps at work but the dynamics at work have change...
I also feel confused about direction...where to go; how to present myself...who I can trust. I feel like I need to just do what I can do...instead of the 9-12 hour days I have been for 14 months trying to 'prove' myself and to let go, let God...there is a lot to let go, let God from.
I feel desperate as if I need my husband to come back soonest, but I know he needs to finish this contract for the friend/client who tried to help us restart in Chile and also who, 40 years ago...when we were just starting out...lent Miguel the money to fly to Chile to see his father as he was ill and had just a few days to live.
I feel grateful to this man...and I am glad Miguel chose to go down and honor this friendship although it has been hard on both of us...to be apart...and in such uncertainty for so long.
I feel alone and lonely and that is something that I am having to get used to as Miguel and I have been going through a lot for a long time...and have stayed with one another through very hard times...and here is another...but I am feeling better and know that rest and straightening up the clutter that has built up in my apartment are two things I can do.
What will I do to dispel the power I have given those feelings above?
I am thinking and writing down all the things and people I am grateful for...present and past.
The next two things I copied from Ann as I don't have better words:
I will be grateful that I have courage and strength to face whatever lies ahead.
I will be grateful for my faith and trust (two similar but different things, to me) and stop trying to run the world and let God lead me to where I am supposed to go and to take care of my financial needs and also my husband's timing in coming back.
I prayed and asked God to help me and God is helping me...picked up some more clutter when I got home...and will continue to take bites out of the elephant...as I have a woman friend coming tomorrow to spend the weekend.
Although I have been 'doing' recovery for a long time...there is always more for me to learn and to take in...and I am very grateful for this particular thread which was 'just right' for me...and gave me a place to be safe...and not stay too much in my mind.
God Bless.
Nature Girl
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: By The Lake
Posts: 60,328
Irisgarden, I can "hear" a difference in your voice today compared to yesterday when you were overwhelmed and worried.
You have compartmentalized your feelings and issues, you have a plan to take care of yourself in the meantime, as you find your balance again. You are taking care of yourself looking for a job with hours that you can live with, not so many that you are exhausted at the end of the day. And most of all, you recognize that this isn't all going to fall together at once and have a plan to stay balanced as you proceed, and faith to let yourself be led.
And nothing lifts our spirits like a good visit with a friend, I am glad you have one coming this weekend. I hope you get out into nature and laugh at each other's stories and just get a chance to relax and have fun.
Hugs
You have compartmentalized your feelings and issues, you have a plan to take care of yourself in the meantime, as you find your balance again. You are taking care of yourself looking for a job with hours that you can live with, not so many that you are exhausted at the end of the day. And most of all, you recognize that this isn't all going to fall together at once and have a plan to stay balanced as you proceed, and faith to let yourself be led.
And nothing lifts our spirits like a good visit with a friend, I am glad you have one coming this weekend. I hope you get out into nature and laugh at each other's stories and just get a chance to relax and have fun.
Hugs
Nature Girl
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: By The Lake
Posts: 60,328
Another thought for the day...all topics still are wide open, I'm just adding as I think of stuff.
What areas do I continue to struggle with or slip back to when I should know better?
In "Codependent No More" (the best book I ever read about codependency and how to work through it) there are about 3 pages of self-asking questions, such as "Am I a compulsive people pleaser? And if so, what is it that makes me need people to be pleased with me so much?
Each year I review these pages, and keep in mind that I have been working my recovery for many years now. But each year when I review the questions I find certain areas where I am weaker than I'd like to be, or where I get "stuck" time after time.
I am not so much an enabler anymore, to anyone anywhere, but sometimes I feel the need to "fix" what is not mine to fix. It's one think to help a friend in need, that's just being a good friend. But to take on their problem completely and look after it for them robs them of the lesson and the self-esteem of taking care of themselves. This isn't even about addiction here, it's about my need to "fix" anything that is making anyone I care about unhappy.
I am getting better at "stepping back" when this happens. I remind myself that it is very codependent "to do for someone what they can and should do for themselves". Sometimes I just slap myself in the head *ouch* because I need that jolt to let go, hands off...step back...let them do it.
Just a thought that crossed my mind this morning...as I was about to fix something that wasn't mine to fix, lol.
How about you, what areas continue to trip you up, even though you know better?
What areas do I continue to struggle with or slip back to when I should know better?
In "Codependent No More" (the best book I ever read about codependency and how to work through it) there are about 3 pages of self-asking questions, such as "Am I a compulsive people pleaser? And if so, what is it that makes me need people to be pleased with me so much?
Each year I review these pages, and keep in mind that I have been working my recovery for many years now. But each year when I review the questions I find certain areas where I am weaker than I'd like to be, or where I get "stuck" time after time.
I am not so much an enabler anymore, to anyone anywhere, but sometimes I feel the need to "fix" what is not mine to fix. It's one think to help a friend in need, that's just being a good friend. But to take on their problem completely and look after it for them robs them of the lesson and the self-esteem of taking care of themselves. This isn't even about addiction here, it's about my need to "fix" anything that is making anyone I care about unhappy.
I am getting better at "stepping back" when this happens. I remind myself that it is very codependent "to do for someone what they can and should do for themselves". Sometimes I just slap myself in the head *ouch* because I need that jolt to let go, hands off...step back...let them do it.
Just a thought that crossed my mind this morning...as I was about to fix something that wasn't mine to fix, lol.
How about you, what areas continue to trip you up, even though you know better?
Nature Girl
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: By The Lake
Posts: 60,328
Reference only...if you don't think you are codependent, then this may not relate to you...but it's a helpful tool to use periodically and this thread is about working through stuff and what works for us.
I copied this and brought it here as something you can keep and review in small pieces. Trying to absorb it all at once will just overwhelm you...and we don't want any overwhelming here, lol. But it is from Melody Beattie's book, Codependent No More and it has helped me a lot to pinpoint my areas that need work.
Characteristics of Codependency
Symptoms of Codependency:
Inability to know what "normal" is.
Difficulty in following a project through.
Difficulty having fun.
Judging self, others without mercy.
Low self esteem, often projected onto others. (eg: Why don't they get their act together!)
Difficulty in developing or sustaining meaningful relationships.
Belief that others cause or are responsible for the codependent's emotions.
(Codependents often use language like "you make me feel ______", or "I was made to feel like____")
Overreacting to change. (or intense fear of / inability to deal with change.)
Inability to see alternatives to situations, thus responding very impulsively.
Constantly seeking approval and affirmation, yet having compromised sense of self.
Feelings of being different.
Confusion and sense of inadequacy.
Being either super responsible or super irresponsible. (Or alternating between these.)
Lack of self confidence in making decisions, no sense of power in making choices.
Feeling of fear, insecurity, inadequacy, guilt, hurt, and shame which are denied.
Isolation and fear of people, resentment of authority figures.
Fear of anger or bottling anger up till it explodes.
Hypersensitivity to criticism.
Being addicted to excitement / drama. (Chaos making.)
Dependency upon others and fear of abandonment.
Avoidance of relationships to guard against abandonment fears.
Confusion between love and pity.
Tendency to look for "victims" to help.
Rigidity and need to control.
Lies, when it would be just as easy to tell the truth.
Are you codependent?
Melody Beattie, author of Codependent No More developed this check list:
Do you feel responsible for other people--their feelings, thoughts, actions, choices, wants, needs, well-being and destiny?
Do you feel compelled to help people solve their problems or by trying to take care of their feelings?
Do you find it easier to feel and express anger about injustices done to others than about injustices done to you?
Do you feel safest and most comfortable when you are giving to others?
Do you feel insecure and guilty when someone gives to you?
Do you feel empty, bored and worthless if you don't have someone else to take care of, a problem to solve, or a crisis to deal with?
Are you often unable to stop talking, thinking and worrying about other people and their problems?
Do you lose interest in your own life when you are in love?
Do you stay in relationships that don't work and tolerate abuse in order to keep people loving you?
Do you leave bad relationships only to form new ones that don't work, either?
Characteristics of Codependency
Following is a commonly used list of characteristics of codependency.
My good feelings about who I am stem from being liked by you
My good feelings about who I am stem from receiving approval from you
Your struggle affects my serenity. My mental attention focuses on solving your problems/relieving your pain
My mental attention is focused on you
My mental attention is focused on protecting you
My mental attention is focused on manipulating you to do it my way
My self-esteem is bolstered by solving your problems
My self-esteem is bolstered by relieving your pain
My own hobbies/interests are put to one side. My time is spent sharing your hobbies/interests
Your clothing and personal appearance are dictated by my desires and I feel you are a reflection of me
Your behaviour is dictated by my desires and I feel you are a reflection of me
I am not aware of how I feel. I am aware of how you feel.
I am not aware of what I want - I ask what you want. I am not aware - I assume
The dreams I have for my future are linked to you
My fear of rejection determines what I say or do
My fear of your anger determines what I say or do
I use giving as a way of feeling safe in our relationship
My social circle diminishes as I involve myself with you
I put my values aside in order to connect with you
I value your opinion and way of doing things more than my own
The quality of my life is in relation to the quality of yours
What is Codependency?
These patterns and characteristics are offered as a tool to aid in self evaluation. They may be particularly helpful to newcomers as they begin to understand codependency and may aid those who have been in recovery a while determining what traits still need attention and transformation.
Denial Patterns:
I have difficulty identifying what I am feeling.
I minimize, alter, or deny how I truly feel.
I perceive myself as completely unselfish and dedicated to the well being of others.
Low Self Esteem Patterns:
I have difficulty making decisions.
I judge everything I think, say, or do harshly, as never "good enough."
I am embarrassed to receive recognition and praise or gifts.
I do not ask others to meet my needs or desires.
I value other's approval of my thinking, feelings, and behaviors over my own.
I do not perceive myself as a lovable or worthwhile person.
Compliance Patterns:
I compromise my own values and integrity to avoid rejection or others' anger.
I am very sensitive to how others are feeling and feel the same.
I am extremely loyal, remaining in harmful situations too long.
I value others' opinions and feelings more than my own and am often afraid to express differing opinions and feelings of my own.
I put aside my own interests and hobbies in order to do what others want.
I accept sex when I want love.
Control Patterns:
I believe most other people are incapable of taking care of themselves.
I attempt to convince others of what they "should" think and how they "truly" feel.
I become resentful when others will not let me help them.
I freely offer others advice and directions without being asked.
I lavish gifts and favors on those I care about.
I use sex to gain approval and acceptance.
I have to be "needed" in order to have a relationship with others.
Characteristics of Codependent People
We have an overdeveloped sense of responsibility and it is easier for us to be concerned with others rather than ourselves. This in turn enabled us not to look too closely at our faults.
We "stuff" our feelings from our traumatic childhoods and have lost the ability to feel or express our feelings because it hurts too much.
We are isolated from and afraid of people and authority figures.
We have become approval seekers and have lost our identity in the process.
We are frightened by angry people and any personal criticism.
We live from the viewpoint of victims and are attacked by that weakness in our love and friendship relationships.
We judge ourselves harshly and have a low sense of self esteem.
We are dependent personalities who are terrified of abandonment. We will do anything to hold onto a relationship in order to not experience painful abandonment feelings which we received from living with people who were never there emotionally for us.
We experience guilt feelings when we stand up for ourselves instead of giving in to others.
We confuse love and pity and tend to "love" people we can pity and rescue.
We have either become chemically dependent, married one or both, or found another compulsive personality, such a workaholic to fulfill our own compulsive needs.
We have become addicted to excitement.
We are reactors in life rather than actors.
Signs and Symptoms of Codependency
Codependency involves a habitual system of thinking, feeling, and behaving toward ourselves and others that can cause pain. Codependent behaviors or habits are self-destructive.
We frequently react to people who are destroying themselves; we react by learning to destroy ourselves. These habits can lead us into, or keep us in, destructive relationships that don't work. These behaviors can sabotage relationships that may otherwise have worked. These behaviors can prevent us from finding peace and happiness with the most important person in our lives... ourselves. These behaviors belong to the only person we can change.. ourselves. These are our problems.
The following are characteristics of codependent persons: (We started to do these things out of necessity to protect ourselves and meet our needs.)
CareTaking
Codependents may:
Think and feel responsible for other people---for other people's feelings, thoughts, actions, choices, wants, needs, well-being, lack of well-being, and ultimate destiny.
Feel anxiety, pity, and guilt when other people have a problem.
Feel compelled - almost forced - to help that person solve the problem, such as offering unwanted advice, giving a rapid-fire series of suggestions, or fixing feelings.
Feel angry when their help isn't effective.
Anticipate other people's needs.
Wonder why others don't do the same for them.
Don't really want to be doing, doing more than their fair share of the work, and doing things other people are capable of doing for themselves.
Not knowing what they want and need, or if they do, tell themselves what they want and need is not important.
Try to please others instead of themselves.
Find it easier to feel and express anger about injustices done to others rather than injustices done to themselves.
Feel safest when giving.
Feel insecure and guilty when somebody gives to them.
Feel sad because they spend their whole lives giving to other people and nobody gives to them.
Find themselves attracted to needy people.
Find needy people attracted to them.
Feel bored, empty, and worthless if they don't have a crisis in their lives, a problem to solve, or someone to help.
Abandon their routine to respond to or do something for somebody else.
Overcommit themselves.
Feel harried and pressured.
Believe deep inside other people are somehow responsible for them.
Blame others for the spot the codependents are in.
Say other people make the codependents feel the way they do.
Believe other people are making them crazy.
Feel angry, victimized, unappreciated, and used.
Find other people become impatient or angry with them for all of the preceding characteristics.
Low Self Worth
Codependents tend to:
Come from troubled, repressed, or dysfunctional families.
Deny their family was troubled, repressed or dysfunctional.
Blame themselves for everything.
Pick on themselves for everything, including the way they think, feel, look, act, and behave.
Get angry, defensive, self-righteous, and indigent when others blame and criticize the codependents -- something codependents regularly do to themselves.
Reject compliments or praise.
Get depressed from a lack of compliments and praise (stroke deprivation).
Feel different from the rest of the world.
Think they're not quite good enough.
Feel guilty about spending money on themselves or doing unnecessary or fun things for themselves.
Fear rejection.
Take things personally.
Have been victims of sexual, physical, or emotional abuse,neglect, abandonment, or alcoholism.
Feel like victims.
Tell themselves they can't do anything right.
Be afraid of making mistakes.
Wonder why they have a tough time making decisions.
Have a lot of "shoulds".
Feel a lot of guilt.
Feel ashamed of who they are.
Think their lives are not worth living.
Try to help other people live their lives instead.
Get artificial feelings of self-worth from helping others.
Get strong feelings of low self-worth - embarrassment, failure, etc...from other people's failures and problems.
Wish good things would happen to them.
Believe good things never will happen.
Believe they don't deserve good things and happiness.
Wish others would like and love them.
Believe other people couldn't possibly like and love them.
Try to prove they're good enough for other people.
Settle for being needed.
Repression
Many Codependents:
Push their thoughts and feelings out of their awareness because of fear and guilt.
Become afraid to let themselves be who they are.
Appear rigid and controlled.
Obsession
Codependents tend to:
Feel terribly anxious about problems and people.
Worry about the silliest things.
Think and talk a lot about other people.
Lose sleep over problems or other people's behavior.
Worry.
Never Find answers.
Check on people.
Try to catch people in acts of misbehavior.
Feel unable to quit talking, thinking, and worrying about other people or problems.
Abandon their routine because they are so upset about somebody or something.
Focus all their energy on other people and problems.
Wonder why they never have any energy.
Wonder why they can't get things done.
Controlling
Many codependents:
Have lived through events and with people that were out of control, causing the codependents sorrow and disappointment.
Become afraid to let other people be who they are and allow events to happen naturally.
Don't see or deal with their fear of loss of control.
Think they know best how things should turn out and how people should behave.
Try to control events and people through helplessness, guilt, coercion, threats, advice-giving, manipulation, or domination.
Eventually fail in their efforts or provoke people's anger.
Get frustrated and angry.
Feel controlled by events and people.
Denial
Codependents tend to:
Ignore problems or pretend they aren't happening.
Pretend circumstances aren't as bad as they are.
Tell themselves things will be better tomorrow.
Stay busy so they don't have to think about things.
Get confused.
Get depressed or sick.
Go to doctors and get tranquilizers.
Become workaholics.
Spend money compulsively.
Overeat.
Pretend those things aren't happening either.
Watch problems get worse.
Believe lies.
Lie to themselves.
Wonder why they feel like they're going crazy.
Dependency
Many codependents:
Don't feel happy, content, or peaceful with themselves.
Look for happiness outside themselves.
Latch onto whoever or whatever they think can provide happiness.
Feel terribly threatened by the loss of any thing or person they think proves their happiness.
Didn't feel love and approval from their parents.
Don't love themselves.
Believe other people can't or don't love them.
Desperately seek love and approval.
Often seek love from people incapable of loving.
Believe other people are never there for them.
Equate love with pain.
Feel they need people more than they want them.
Try to prove they're good enough to be loved.
Don't take time to see if other people are good for them.
Worry whether other people love or like them.
Don't take time to figure out if they love or like other people.
Center their lives around other people.
Look for relationships to provide all their good feelings.
Lost interest in their own lives when they love.
Worry other people will leave them.
Don't believe they can take care of themselves.
Stay in relationships that don't work.
Tolerate abuse to keep people loving them.
Feel trapped in relationships.
Wonder if they will ever find love.
Poor Communication
Codependents frequently:
Blame.
Threaten.
Coerce.
Beg.
Bribe.
Advise.
Don't say what they mean.
Don't mean what they say.
Don't know what they mean.
Don't take themselves seriously.
Think other people don't take the codependents seriously.
Take themselves too seriously.
Ask for what they want and need indirectly - sighing, for example.
Find it difficult to get to the point.
Aren't sure what the point is.
Gauge their words carefully to achieve a desired effect.
Try to say what they think will please people.
Try to say what they think will provoke people.
Try to say what they hop will make people do what they want them to do.
Eliminate the word NO from their vocabulary.
Talk too much.
Talk about other people.
Avoid talking about themselves, their problems, feelings, and thoughts.
Say everything is their fault.
Say nothing is their fault.
Believe their opinions don't matter.
Want to express their opinions until they know other people's opinions.
Lie to protect and cover up for people they love.
Have a difficult time asserting their rights.
Have a difficult time expressing their emotions honestly, openly, and appropriately.
Think most of what they have to say is unimportant.
Begin to talk in Cynical, self-degrading, or hostile ways.
Apologize for bothering people.
Weak Boundaries
Codependents frequently:
Say they won't tolerate certain behaviors from other people.
Gradually increase their tolerance until they can tolerate and do things they said they would never do.
Let others hurt them.
Keep letting others hurt them.
Wonder why they hurt so badly.
Complain, blame, and try to control while they continue to stand there.
Finally get angry.
Become totally intolerant.
Lack of Trust
Codependents:
Don't trust themselves.
Don't trust their feelings.
Don't trust their decisions.
Don't trust other people.
Try to trust untrustworthy people.
Think God has abandoned them.
Lose faith and trust in God.
Anger
Many Codependents:
Feel very scared, hurt, and angry.
Live with people who are very scared, hurt, and angry.
Are afraid of their own anger.
Are frightened of other people's anger.
Think people will go away if anger enters the picture.
Feel controlled by other people's anger.
Repress their angry feelings.
Think other people make them feel angry.
Are afraid to make other people feel anger.
Cry a lot, get depressed, overact, get sick, do mean and nasty things to get even, act hostile, or have violent temper outbursts.
Punish other people for making the codependents angry.
Have been shamed for feeling angry.
Place guilt and shame on themselves for feeling angry.
Feel increasing amounts of anger, resentment, and bitterness.
Feel safer with their anger than hurt feelings.
Wonder if they'll ever not be angry.
Sex Problems
Some codependents:
Are caretakers in the bedroom.
Have sex when they don't want to.
Have sex when they'd rather be held, nurtured, and loved.
Try to have sex when they're angry or hurt.
Refuse to enjoy sex because they're so angry at their partner.
Are afraid of losing control.
Have a difficult time asking for what they need in bed.
Withdraw emotionally from their partner.
Feel sexual revulsion toward their partner.
Don't talk about it.
Force themselves to have sex, anyway.
Reduce sex to a technical act.
Wonder why they don't enjoy sex.
Lose interest in sex.
Make up reasons to abstain.
Wish their sex partner would die, go away, or sense the codependent's feelings.
Have strong sexual fantasies about other people.
Consider or have an extramarital affair.
Miscellaneous
Codependents tend to:
Be extremely responsible.
Be extremely irresponsible.
Become martyrs, sacrificing their happiness and that of others for causes that don't require sacrifice.
Find it difficult to feel close to people.
Find it difficult to have fun and be spontaneous.
Have an overall passive response to codependency - crying, hurt, helplessness.
Have an overall aggressive response to codependency - violence, anger, dominance.
Combine passive and aggressive responses.
Vacillate in decisions and emotions.
Laugh when they feel like crying.
Stay loyal to their compulsions and people even when it hurts.
Be ashamed about family, personal, or relationship problems.
Be confused about the nature of the problem.
Cover up, lie, and protect the problem.
Not seek help because they tell themselves the problem isn't bad enough, or they aren't important enough.
Wonder why the problem doesn't go away.
Progressive
In the later stages of codependency, codependents may:
Feel lethargic.
Feel depressed.
Become withdrawn and isolated.
Experience a complete loss of daily routine and structure.
Abuse or neglect their children and other responsibilities.
Feel hopeless.
Begin to plan their escape from a relationship they feel trapped in.
Think about suicide.
Become violent.
Become seriously emotionally, mentally, or physically ill.
Experience an eating disorder (over - or under eating).
Become addicted to alcohol or other drugs.
I copied this and brought it here as something you can keep and review in small pieces. Trying to absorb it all at once will just overwhelm you...and we don't want any overwhelming here, lol. But it is from Melody Beattie's book, Codependent No More and it has helped me a lot to pinpoint my areas that need work.
Characteristics of Codependency
Symptoms of Codependency:
Inability to know what "normal" is.
Difficulty in following a project through.
Difficulty having fun.
Judging self, others without mercy.
Low self esteem, often projected onto others. (eg: Why don't they get their act together!)
Difficulty in developing or sustaining meaningful relationships.
Belief that others cause or are responsible for the codependent's emotions.
(Codependents often use language like "you make me feel ______", or "I was made to feel like____")
Overreacting to change. (or intense fear of / inability to deal with change.)
Inability to see alternatives to situations, thus responding very impulsively.
Constantly seeking approval and affirmation, yet having compromised sense of self.
Feelings of being different.
Confusion and sense of inadequacy.
Being either super responsible or super irresponsible. (Or alternating between these.)
Lack of self confidence in making decisions, no sense of power in making choices.
Feeling of fear, insecurity, inadequacy, guilt, hurt, and shame which are denied.
Isolation and fear of people, resentment of authority figures.
Fear of anger or bottling anger up till it explodes.
Hypersensitivity to criticism.
Being addicted to excitement / drama. (Chaos making.)
Dependency upon others and fear of abandonment.
Avoidance of relationships to guard against abandonment fears.
Confusion between love and pity.
Tendency to look for "victims" to help.
Rigidity and need to control.
Lies, when it would be just as easy to tell the truth.
Are you codependent?
Melody Beattie, author of Codependent No More developed this check list:
Do you feel responsible for other people--their feelings, thoughts, actions, choices, wants, needs, well-being and destiny?
Do you feel compelled to help people solve their problems or by trying to take care of their feelings?
Do you find it easier to feel and express anger about injustices done to others than about injustices done to you?
Do you feel safest and most comfortable when you are giving to others?
Do you feel insecure and guilty when someone gives to you?
Do you feel empty, bored and worthless if you don't have someone else to take care of, a problem to solve, or a crisis to deal with?
Are you often unable to stop talking, thinking and worrying about other people and their problems?
Do you lose interest in your own life when you are in love?
Do you stay in relationships that don't work and tolerate abuse in order to keep people loving you?
Do you leave bad relationships only to form new ones that don't work, either?
Characteristics of Codependency
Following is a commonly used list of characteristics of codependency.
My good feelings about who I am stem from being liked by you
My good feelings about who I am stem from receiving approval from you
Your struggle affects my serenity. My mental attention focuses on solving your problems/relieving your pain
My mental attention is focused on you
My mental attention is focused on protecting you
My mental attention is focused on manipulating you to do it my way
My self-esteem is bolstered by solving your problems
My self-esteem is bolstered by relieving your pain
My own hobbies/interests are put to one side. My time is spent sharing your hobbies/interests
Your clothing and personal appearance are dictated by my desires and I feel you are a reflection of me
Your behaviour is dictated by my desires and I feel you are a reflection of me
I am not aware of how I feel. I am aware of how you feel.
I am not aware of what I want - I ask what you want. I am not aware - I assume
The dreams I have for my future are linked to you
My fear of rejection determines what I say or do
My fear of your anger determines what I say or do
I use giving as a way of feeling safe in our relationship
My social circle diminishes as I involve myself with you
I put my values aside in order to connect with you
I value your opinion and way of doing things more than my own
The quality of my life is in relation to the quality of yours
What is Codependency?
These patterns and characteristics are offered as a tool to aid in self evaluation. They may be particularly helpful to newcomers as they begin to understand codependency and may aid those who have been in recovery a while determining what traits still need attention and transformation.
Denial Patterns:
I have difficulty identifying what I am feeling.
I minimize, alter, or deny how I truly feel.
I perceive myself as completely unselfish and dedicated to the well being of others.
Low Self Esteem Patterns:
I have difficulty making decisions.
I judge everything I think, say, or do harshly, as never "good enough."
I am embarrassed to receive recognition and praise or gifts.
I do not ask others to meet my needs or desires.
I value other's approval of my thinking, feelings, and behaviors over my own.
I do not perceive myself as a lovable or worthwhile person.
Compliance Patterns:
I compromise my own values and integrity to avoid rejection or others' anger.
I am very sensitive to how others are feeling and feel the same.
I am extremely loyal, remaining in harmful situations too long.
I value others' opinions and feelings more than my own and am often afraid to express differing opinions and feelings of my own.
I put aside my own interests and hobbies in order to do what others want.
I accept sex when I want love.
Control Patterns:
I believe most other people are incapable of taking care of themselves.
I attempt to convince others of what they "should" think and how they "truly" feel.
I become resentful when others will not let me help them.
I freely offer others advice and directions without being asked.
I lavish gifts and favors on those I care about.
I use sex to gain approval and acceptance.
I have to be "needed" in order to have a relationship with others.
Characteristics of Codependent People
We have an overdeveloped sense of responsibility and it is easier for us to be concerned with others rather than ourselves. This in turn enabled us not to look too closely at our faults.
We "stuff" our feelings from our traumatic childhoods and have lost the ability to feel or express our feelings because it hurts too much.
We are isolated from and afraid of people and authority figures.
We have become approval seekers and have lost our identity in the process.
We are frightened by angry people and any personal criticism.
We live from the viewpoint of victims and are attacked by that weakness in our love and friendship relationships.
We judge ourselves harshly and have a low sense of self esteem.
We are dependent personalities who are terrified of abandonment. We will do anything to hold onto a relationship in order to not experience painful abandonment feelings which we received from living with people who were never there emotionally for us.
We experience guilt feelings when we stand up for ourselves instead of giving in to others.
We confuse love and pity and tend to "love" people we can pity and rescue.
We have either become chemically dependent, married one or both, or found another compulsive personality, such a workaholic to fulfill our own compulsive needs.
We have become addicted to excitement.
We are reactors in life rather than actors.
Signs and Symptoms of Codependency
Codependency involves a habitual system of thinking, feeling, and behaving toward ourselves and others that can cause pain. Codependent behaviors or habits are self-destructive.
We frequently react to people who are destroying themselves; we react by learning to destroy ourselves. These habits can lead us into, or keep us in, destructive relationships that don't work. These behaviors can sabotage relationships that may otherwise have worked. These behaviors can prevent us from finding peace and happiness with the most important person in our lives... ourselves. These behaviors belong to the only person we can change.. ourselves. These are our problems.
The following are characteristics of codependent persons: (We started to do these things out of necessity to protect ourselves and meet our needs.)
CareTaking
Codependents may:
Think and feel responsible for other people---for other people's feelings, thoughts, actions, choices, wants, needs, well-being, lack of well-being, and ultimate destiny.
Feel anxiety, pity, and guilt when other people have a problem.
Feel compelled - almost forced - to help that person solve the problem, such as offering unwanted advice, giving a rapid-fire series of suggestions, or fixing feelings.
Feel angry when their help isn't effective.
Anticipate other people's needs.
Wonder why others don't do the same for them.
Don't really want to be doing, doing more than their fair share of the work, and doing things other people are capable of doing for themselves.
Not knowing what they want and need, or if they do, tell themselves what they want and need is not important.
Try to please others instead of themselves.
Find it easier to feel and express anger about injustices done to others rather than injustices done to themselves.
Feel safest when giving.
Feel insecure and guilty when somebody gives to them.
Feel sad because they spend their whole lives giving to other people and nobody gives to them.
Find themselves attracted to needy people.
Find needy people attracted to them.
Feel bored, empty, and worthless if they don't have a crisis in their lives, a problem to solve, or someone to help.
Abandon their routine to respond to or do something for somebody else.
Overcommit themselves.
Feel harried and pressured.
Believe deep inside other people are somehow responsible for them.
Blame others for the spot the codependents are in.
Say other people make the codependents feel the way they do.
Believe other people are making them crazy.
Feel angry, victimized, unappreciated, and used.
Find other people become impatient or angry with them for all of the preceding characteristics.
Low Self Worth
Codependents tend to:
Come from troubled, repressed, or dysfunctional families.
Deny their family was troubled, repressed or dysfunctional.
Blame themselves for everything.
Pick on themselves for everything, including the way they think, feel, look, act, and behave.
Get angry, defensive, self-righteous, and indigent when others blame and criticize the codependents -- something codependents regularly do to themselves.
Reject compliments or praise.
Get depressed from a lack of compliments and praise (stroke deprivation).
Feel different from the rest of the world.
Think they're not quite good enough.
Feel guilty about spending money on themselves or doing unnecessary or fun things for themselves.
Fear rejection.
Take things personally.
Have been victims of sexual, physical, or emotional abuse,neglect, abandonment, or alcoholism.
Feel like victims.
Tell themselves they can't do anything right.
Be afraid of making mistakes.
Wonder why they have a tough time making decisions.
Have a lot of "shoulds".
Feel a lot of guilt.
Feel ashamed of who they are.
Think their lives are not worth living.
Try to help other people live their lives instead.
Get artificial feelings of self-worth from helping others.
Get strong feelings of low self-worth - embarrassment, failure, etc...from other people's failures and problems.
Wish good things would happen to them.
Believe good things never will happen.
Believe they don't deserve good things and happiness.
Wish others would like and love them.
Believe other people couldn't possibly like and love them.
Try to prove they're good enough for other people.
Settle for being needed.
Repression
Many Codependents:
Push their thoughts and feelings out of their awareness because of fear and guilt.
Become afraid to let themselves be who they are.
Appear rigid and controlled.
Obsession
Codependents tend to:
Feel terribly anxious about problems and people.
Worry about the silliest things.
Think and talk a lot about other people.
Lose sleep over problems or other people's behavior.
Worry.
Never Find answers.
Check on people.
Try to catch people in acts of misbehavior.
Feel unable to quit talking, thinking, and worrying about other people or problems.
Abandon their routine because they are so upset about somebody or something.
Focus all their energy on other people and problems.
Wonder why they never have any energy.
Wonder why they can't get things done.
Controlling
Many codependents:
Have lived through events and with people that were out of control, causing the codependents sorrow and disappointment.
Become afraid to let other people be who they are and allow events to happen naturally.
Don't see or deal with their fear of loss of control.
Think they know best how things should turn out and how people should behave.
Try to control events and people through helplessness, guilt, coercion, threats, advice-giving, manipulation, or domination.
Eventually fail in their efforts or provoke people's anger.
Get frustrated and angry.
Feel controlled by events and people.
Denial
Codependents tend to:
Ignore problems or pretend they aren't happening.
Pretend circumstances aren't as bad as they are.
Tell themselves things will be better tomorrow.
Stay busy so they don't have to think about things.
Get confused.
Get depressed or sick.
Go to doctors and get tranquilizers.
Become workaholics.
Spend money compulsively.
Overeat.
Pretend those things aren't happening either.
Watch problems get worse.
Believe lies.
Lie to themselves.
Wonder why they feel like they're going crazy.
Dependency
Many codependents:
Don't feel happy, content, or peaceful with themselves.
Look for happiness outside themselves.
Latch onto whoever or whatever they think can provide happiness.
Feel terribly threatened by the loss of any thing or person they think proves their happiness.
Didn't feel love and approval from their parents.
Don't love themselves.
Believe other people can't or don't love them.
Desperately seek love and approval.
Often seek love from people incapable of loving.
Believe other people are never there for them.
Equate love with pain.
Feel they need people more than they want them.
Try to prove they're good enough to be loved.
Don't take time to see if other people are good for them.
Worry whether other people love or like them.
Don't take time to figure out if they love or like other people.
Center their lives around other people.
Look for relationships to provide all their good feelings.
Lost interest in their own lives when they love.
Worry other people will leave them.
Don't believe they can take care of themselves.
Stay in relationships that don't work.
Tolerate abuse to keep people loving them.
Feel trapped in relationships.
Wonder if they will ever find love.
Poor Communication
Codependents frequently:
Blame.
Threaten.
Coerce.
Beg.
Bribe.
Advise.
Don't say what they mean.
Don't mean what they say.
Don't know what they mean.
Don't take themselves seriously.
Think other people don't take the codependents seriously.
Take themselves too seriously.
Ask for what they want and need indirectly - sighing, for example.
Find it difficult to get to the point.
Aren't sure what the point is.
Gauge their words carefully to achieve a desired effect.
Try to say what they think will please people.
Try to say what they think will provoke people.
Try to say what they hop will make people do what they want them to do.
Eliminate the word NO from their vocabulary.
Talk too much.
Talk about other people.
Avoid talking about themselves, their problems, feelings, and thoughts.
Say everything is their fault.
Say nothing is their fault.
Believe their opinions don't matter.
Want to express their opinions until they know other people's opinions.
Lie to protect and cover up for people they love.
Have a difficult time asserting their rights.
Have a difficult time expressing their emotions honestly, openly, and appropriately.
Think most of what they have to say is unimportant.
Begin to talk in Cynical, self-degrading, or hostile ways.
Apologize for bothering people.
Weak Boundaries
Codependents frequently:
Say they won't tolerate certain behaviors from other people.
Gradually increase their tolerance until they can tolerate and do things they said they would never do.
Let others hurt them.
Keep letting others hurt them.
Wonder why they hurt so badly.
Complain, blame, and try to control while they continue to stand there.
Finally get angry.
Become totally intolerant.
Lack of Trust
Codependents:
Don't trust themselves.
Don't trust their feelings.
Don't trust their decisions.
Don't trust other people.
Try to trust untrustworthy people.
Think God has abandoned them.
Lose faith and trust in God.
Anger
Many Codependents:
Feel very scared, hurt, and angry.
Live with people who are very scared, hurt, and angry.
Are afraid of their own anger.
Are frightened of other people's anger.
Think people will go away if anger enters the picture.
Feel controlled by other people's anger.
Repress their angry feelings.
Think other people make them feel angry.
Are afraid to make other people feel anger.
Cry a lot, get depressed, overact, get sick, do mean and nasty things to get even, act hostile, or have violent temper outbursts.
Punish other people for making the codependents angry.
Have been shamed for feeling angry.
Place guilt and shame on themselves for feeling angry.
Feel increasing amounts of anger, resentment, and bitterness.
Feel safer with their anger than hurt feelings.
Wonder if they'll ever not be angry.
Sex Problems
Some codependents:
Are caretakers in the bedroom.
Have sex when they don't want to.
Have sex when they'd rather be held, nurtured, and loved.
Try to have sex when they're angry or hurt.
Refuse to enjoy sex because they're so angry at their partner.
Are afraid of losing control.
Have a difficult time asking for what they need in bed.
Withdraw emotionally from their partner.
Feel sexual revulsion toward their partner.
Don't talk about it.
Force themselves to have sex, anyway.
Reduce sex to a technical act.
Wonder why they don't enjoy sex.
Lose interest in sex.
Make up reasons to abstain.
Wish their sex partner would die, go away, or sense the codependent's feelings.
Have strong sexual fantasies about other people.
Consider or have an extramarital affair.
Miscellaneous
Codependents tend to:
Be extremely responsible.
Be extremely irresponsible.
Become martyrs, sacrificing their happiness and that of others for causes that don't require sacrifice.
Find it difficult to feel close to people.
Find it difficult to have fun and be spontaneous.
Have an overall passive response to codependency - crying, hurt, helplessness.
Have an overall aggressive response to codependency - violence, anger, dominance.
Combine passive and aggressive responses.
Vacillate in decisions and emotions.
Laugh when they feel like crying.
Stay loyal to their compulsions and people even when it hurts.
Be ashamed about family, personal, or relationship problems.
Be confused about the nature of the problem.
Cover up, lie, and protect the problem.
Not seek help because they tell themselves the problem isn't bad enough, or they aren't important enough.
Wonder why the problem doesn't go away.
Progressive
In the later stages of codependency, codependents may:
Feel lethargic.
Feel depressed.
Become withdrawn and isolated.
Experience a complete loss of daily routine and structure.
Abuse or neglect their children and other responsibilities.
Feel hopeless.
Begin to plan their escape from a relationship they feel trapped in.
Think about suicide.
Become violent.
Become seriously emotionally, mentally, or physically ill.
Experience an eating disorder (over - or under eating).
Become addicted to alcohol or other drugs.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: East Coast
Posts: 83
What's Wrong?
Struggling with my response to my AS when he contacts me....b/c I fear the "Hey mom what's up?" will turn into "I need money."
What am I doing?
Recognizing my emotions....fear, sadness, guilt, shame.
Sending short reponses to son like "Ok."
Attended an AA meeting with a friend a few nights ago to listen.
Anxiously awaiting my T next week to discuss.
Mostly I struggle with guilt...what sort of mother doesn't communicate with her child....but I know what that will bring....discussion about how bad he has it, how everyone is out to get him, and oh....by the way can I have $20......for xyz.....and then I'm hooked and meeting him 3-4 nights a week for dinner and $20.
I've not found a very good way to deal with the guilt I feel right now.
qwer
Struggling with my response to my AS when he contacts me....b/c I fear the "Hey mom what's up?" will turn into "I need money."
What am I doing?
Recognizing my emotions....fear, sadness, guilt, shame.
Sending short reponses to son like "Ok."
Attended an AA meeting with a friend a few nights ago to listen.
Anxiously awaiting my T next week to discuss.
Mostly I struggle with guilt...what sort of mother doesn't communicate with her child....but I know what that will bring....discussion about how bad he has it, how everyone is out to get him, and oh....by the way can I have $20......for xyz.....and then I'm hooked and meeting him 3-4 nights a week for dinner and $20.
I've not found a very good way to deal with the guilt I feel right now.
qwer
Nature Girl
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: By The Lake
Posts: 60,328
(((qwer))) I think every mama here has felt the guilt you struggle with.
I felt guilty when I turned my son's requests down and I felt guilty when I gave him anything, knowing it could be sold for drugs. Like you, I would meet him and buy him a meal that he would eat with me. We tried to discuss "life in general" and not have every conversation end up being about how tough he had it or me nagging/begging him to find recovery. We just shared a meal as mother and son, shared some stories, some of them funny and maybe walked a while afterwords. That was enough, for him and for me.
I sometimes mistook sadness for guilt. I KNOW I didn't cause it and can't cure it or control it. I know we gave him tons of love, lots of opportunity to help with courses or counseling or basic needs, and encouragement along the way. That's really all any mama can do with an adult son who makes bad choices.
You are doing well recognizing your feelings, even if you can't resolve them all right now. You are "self aware" and know what your part can be and what it cannot. That's the most important part of all, taking time to feel what we feel and then ponder on why we feel it and what we can do about it.
Hugs
I felt guilty when I turned my son's requests down and I felt guilty when I gave him anything, knowing it could be sold for drugs. Like you, I would meet him and buy him a meal that he would eat with me. We tried to discuss "life in general" and not have every conversation end up being about how tough he had it or me nagging/begging him to find recovery. We just shared a meal as mother and son, shared some stories, some of them funny and maybe walked a while afterwords. That was enough, for him and for me.
I sometimes mistook sadness for guilt. I KNOW I didn't cause it and can't cure it or control it. I know we gave him tons of love, lots of opportunity to help with courses or counseling or basic needs, and encouragement along the way. That's really all any mama can do with an adult son who makes bad choices.
You are doing well recognizing your feelings, even if you can't resolve them all right now. You are "self aware" and know what your part can be and what it cannot. That's the most important part of all, taking time to feel what we feel and then ponder on why we feel it and what we can do about it.
Hugs
Member
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 923
What's Wrong?
Overwhelmed today with seemingly too much on my plate...addict daughter out of contact since June, out of a job since Tuesday, and 4 other functional children (2 previous addicts) mad at me for the past 13 years when I was just trying to raise them, keep a job...keep family afloat and doing a lot of work on myself and intervention/help to them.
What am I doing?
I feel shame about losing the job...my husband and I need me to work to 'start our lives over'...however, I have given myself the ability to feel it and grieve it and do some things around the house that have not had a chance to do since he went back to Chile in April to finish a construction contract for someone who believed in him and invested in him. He has had to finish without using savings as before and it has taken longer than expected...but he is close to finishing...and I am clinging to that. I am working to things like wash the clothes (today) as he did this before he left, and to get a phone on line...was using the work phone and skype primarily and work was overwhelming.
The car overheated and the engine light came on...which was really hard...but I got to a gas station and called one of my two functional adult daughters who blessedly came and helped me. She is more practical than I (I am that thinker/idea type and do office work) and I watched what she did to learn how to be more practical as well...and she followed me home. I was glad to have the strength to ask for help although it almost did me in...as the wash is a new activity and the figuring out the car too...but God must have a plan.
I thanked her deeply and sincerely when we got within our town limits and waved her on...picked up the clothes from laundromat and parked and did some folding...so have done some things.
I am experiencing a tingling sensation around my face area and my hands...does anyone know what that is? Did accupuncture for a while and the accupuncturist then told me that it was old pain trapped in my body...that was processing it's way out...I liked that explanation...having a lot today...
Still working the program I have and realize that I need more recovery.
I am dealing with the tingling and the shame that I was feeling this morning by letting things get done in their order...just keeping on. I contacted my ex boss and asked for a positive reference which was something that I was dreading...so faced the fear on that one...
Will take the car to the car man tomorrow morning...
Overwhelmed today with seemingly too much on my plate...addict daughter out of contact since June, out of a job since Tuesday, and 4 other functional children (2 previous addicts) mad at me for the past 13 years when I was just trying to raise them, keep a job...keep family afloat and doing a lot of work on myself and intervention/help to them.
What am I doing?
I feel shame about losing the job...my husband and I need me to work to 'start our lives over'...however, I have given myself the ability to feel it and grieve it and do some things around the house that have not had a chance to do since he went back to Chile in April to finish a construction contract for someone who believed in him and invested in him. He has had to finish without using savings as before and it has taken longer than expected...but he is close to finishing...and I am clinging to that. I am working to things like wash the clothes (today) as he did this before he left, and to get a phone on line...was using the work phone and skype primarily and work was overwhelming.
The car overheated and the engine light came on...which was really hard...but I got to a gas station and called one of my two functional adult daughters who blessedly came and helped me. She is more practical than I (I am that thinker/idea type and do office work) and I watched what she did to learn how to be more practical as well...and she followed me home. I was glad to have the strength to ask for help although it almost did me in...as the wash is a new activity and the figuring out the car too...but God must have a plan.
I thanked her deeply and sincerely when we got within our town limits and waved her on...picked up the clothes from laundromat and parked and did some folding...so have done some things.
I am experiencing a tingling sensation around my face area and my hands...does anyone know what that is? Did accupuncture for a while and the accupuncturist then told me that it was old pain trapped in my body...that was processing it's way out...I liked that explanation...having a lot today...
Still working the program I have and realize that I need more recovery.
I am dealing with the tingling and the shame that I was feeling this morning by letting things get done in their order...just keeping on. I contacted my ex boss and asked for a positive reference which was something that I was dreading...so faced the fear on that one...
Will take the car to the car man tomorrow morning...
Last edited by irisgardens; 09-19-2014 at 03:10 PM. Reason: Added content
Nature Girl
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: By The Lake
Posts: 60,328
Irisgarden, what would happen if you, at least for now, let go of the past....if you just closed your eyes and gave the past back to the universe...and then just focused on today. We can all handle just one day. You've heard the expression "one day at a time" but it's the "working it" that can be hard to get used to.
Maybe tomorrow, wake up and make a commitment to yourself to just stay in the day. Do what you need to do, chores or errands, maybe commit to sending out 4 resumes? 5? However many you are comfortable sending? And then also commit to put one hour aside just for you. During that hour maybe walk in nature or light a candle and meditate or listen to classical music (my newest "calm the soul" practice)..but commit a full hour dedicated to calming your spirit and finding peace.
No worrying about tomorrow and no regretting or fretting over the past...just live in the day and see if it doesn't make a difference.
And then maybe come here and tell us what you did and how you felt after a full day like that. We'd love to know and I promise you if you can stick with this plan for one day only...the rest will be easier.
This might be a good plan for each of us. I promise to try it too, to consciously stay in the day and take specific time for me.
In case you didn't notice, this thread is helping me a lot too.
Hugs
Maybe tomorrow, wake up and make a commitment to yourself to just stay in the day. Do what you need to do, chores or errands, maybe commit to sending out 4 resumes? 5? However many you are comfortable sending? And then also commit to put one hour aside just for you. During that hour maybe walk in nature or light a candle and meditate or listen to classical music (my newest "calm the soul" practice)..but commit a full hour dedicated to calming your spirit and finding peace.
No worrying about tomorrow and no regretting or fretting over the past...just live in the day and see if it doesn't make a difference.
And then maybe come here and tell us what you did and how you felt after a full day like that. We'd love to know and I promise you if you can stick with this plan for one day only...the rest will be easier.
This might be a good plan for each of us. I promise to try it too, to consciously stay in the day and take specific time for me.
In case you didn't notice, this thread is helping me a lot too.
Hugs
Currently Active Users Viewing this Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
