Addiction is not cancer
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Interesting reading for those that have different views on the so called "disease model"
Drug Addiction Is Not A Brain Disease It is a Choice
Drug Addiction Is Not A Brain Disease It is a Choice
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Originally Posted by Tinks65 
who wants to be an addict? .... their lives are miserable. I agree addiction isn't cancer, it isn't diabetes, it isn't a lot of things but I DO believe it is an illness. The addicts brain does not function the same way a normal brain does. Many, many people can drink alcohol socially, smoke weed recreationally, do cocaine and any number of other drugs recreationally ... heck many people abuse pain killers and don't turn into addicts. yet so many cannot stop.
You wouldn't tell a schizophrenic if he just had enough will power the voices would stop .... we don't tell ADHD kids to just suck it up and sit still (well sadly a lot of people do do that but thats another board) Oh if you come to Jesus and have faith your diabetes will go away, or your MS, etc ... There is no sense talking to someone about addiction if they don't believe it is an illness.
For some it is easier to see their loved one as a crummy person who cares for no one but themselves, call them a loser, a jerk whatever it takes to make yourself feel better ...
after watching my son struggle for years now, having success only to stumble and fall but continuing to fight the battle I CHOOSE to believe that inside he is who I know him to be, a really good kid with all kinds of beauty to offer the world I pray for him daily, I will never give up on him and I refuse to label and judge him because I don't have a clue as to the battle he faces every day inside his head.
You wouldn't tell a schizophrenic if he just had enough will power the voices would stop .... we don't tell ADHD kids to just suck it up and sit still (well sadly a lot of people do do that but thats another board) Oh if you come to Jesus and have faith your diabetes will go away, or your MS, etc ... There is no sense talking to someone about addiction if they don't believe it is an illness.
For some it is easier to see their loved one as a crummy person who cares for no one but themselves, call them a loser, a jerk whatever it takes to make yourself feel better ...
after watching my son struggle for years now, having success only to stumble and fall but continuing to fight the battle I CHOOSE to believe that inside he is who I know him to be, a really good kid with all kinds of beauty to offer the world I pray for him daily, I will never give up on him and I refuse to label and judge him because I don't have a clue as to the battle he faces every day inside his head.
She is an addict, that is her illness. I'm not saying that addiction equates to the things that were listed, and I haven't heard anyone else doing that either.
I believe she has the ability to make the choice to seek recovery. I also believe that she has the strength to succeed in recovery if she chooses to do so. If I thought she was just a loser there wouldn't be any hope at all. If I thought she was just a loser I wouldn't have hope for her recovery.
I think that by recognizing her autonomy and granting her the dignity to make decisions for herself as an adult I am showing her more respect and love than I ever have before.
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Originally Posted by MiSoberbio
I've heard from far, far too many addicts in recovery that they started their path of recovery when they chose to stop consuming substances. The same can be said about the folks I know in my groups (I go to Nar-Anon) -- they began their recovery when they chose to do change their attitudes and stop consuming the lives of others.
I, for one, am not claiming that addiction is NOT an illness (and I get the sense that Interrupted is not doing so either), but there is a difference and that difference is choice. No one chooses to be an addict (of substances, gambling, people, etc.), but for the vast majority of folks who have spoken up about their RECOVERY, it seems that the unifying thread is choice.
I, for one, am not claiming that addiction is NOT an illness (and I get the sense that Interrupted is not doing so either), but there is a difference and that difference is choice. No one chooses to be an addict (of substances, gambling, people, etc.), but for the vast majority of folks who have spoken up about their RECOVERY, it seems that the unifying thread is choice.
When I say that my sister has a choice, I am saying it with love and respect, acknowledgement of her whole self, not with judgement or diminution.
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We are taught in school, by our parents that drugs are bad (maybe not all of us but I would think most kids that go through elementary school are taught that), and can lead to all of these horrible outcomes, yet still people choose to try it. As soon as you make that choice to try a known addictive substance, you are risking becoming an addict. To me, that is a choice that can lead to a "disease".
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It is a matter of choice once the addict has the tools, knows how to use them to stay clean, and chooses not to. Someone with cancer does not have a choice. I agree it is a disease, and I believe we have (I say we because I was abused drugs years ago for about a year) the choice to keep using and die(whether figuratively or literally) or grab a lifeline and climb out of that hell. Cancer victims do not have that luxury. I, for one, am tired of the analogy.
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If your a family member living with someone in active addiction, or recovery I think there are close similarities to family members who live with cancer patients, or those who are in remission.
In both instances, family is left in a precarious position; dealing with changes in the family dynamic, perhaps the loss of a partner who is able to contribute to the family income, childcare duties, emotional needs of the spouse. In both situations there are many raw emotions, fear, misplaced anger, guilt, resentment.
For many family members either disease can mean you make changes to your own life in order to support your loved one. You may begin to research the disease, treatment options, become focused on what you can do to help; weighing options, going to doctor appointments, offering emotional support, sometimes physical support. Often a family member can suffer their own emotional crisis, fall into depression, anxiety, take on the role of caregiver, neglect themselves during times of crisis of their partner. Some do it knowing their partner will not get better.
Sadly, The one distinction I often see is the loved one of a cancer patient is applauded for their love and dedication; while the loved one of an addicted person is told they are themselves sick for tolerating similar behaviors in their loved one, and for offering their support.
Distinct difference between the two for me are the symptoms of disease. Both may bring general anxiety, fear and constant tension into the home. Family members may be subject to bad moods, demanding behavior, guilt trips, episodes of denial; but addicts experience guilt, shame, believe using drugs is like breathing or the need for water; so they lie, steal; do whatever it takes to continue their use.
In both instances, family is left in a precarious position; dealing with changes in the family dynamic, perhaps the loss of a partner who is able to contribute to the family income, childcare duties, emotional needs of the spouse. In both situations there are many raw emotions, fear, misplaced anger, guilt, resentment.
For many family members either disease can mean you make changes to your own life in order to support your loved one. You may begin to research the disease, treatment options, become focused on what you can do to help; weighing options, going to doctor appointments, offering emotional support, sometimes physical support. Often a family member can suffer their own emotional crisis, fall into depression, anxiety, take on the role of caregiver, neglect themselves during times of crisis of their partner. Some do it knowing their partner will not get better.
Sadly, The one distinction I often see is the loved one of a cancer patient is applauded for their love and dedication; while the loved one of an addicted person is told they are themselves sick for tolerating similar behaviors in their loved one, and for offering their support.
Distinct difference between the two for me are the symptoms of disease. Both may bring general anxiety, fear and constant tension into the home. Family members may be subject to bad moods, demanding behavior, guilt trips, episodes of denial; but addicts experience guilt, shame, believe using drugs is like breathing or the need for water; so they lie, steal; do whatever it takes to continue their use.
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Originally Posted by Upsetnneedhelp
Cancer patients do not have to worry about the law. Addicts are anti-social people because they cannot hold jobs and are forced into illegal activities.
Originally Posted by Upsetnneedhelp
Of course just buying drugs is a crime. Society dislikes addicts, like my son, who have abused drugs for decades. Every year they have a breast cancer awareness day and they have 5K runs with pink ribbons. This is good and raises lots of money and awareness. Could you imagine the outcry if we had National Addiction day and have people do a 5K with empty syringes around their necks?
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People don't choose cancer, and people don't choose to be addicted.
The former got unlucky, and the latter thought they could get away with
JUST ONE dance with the devil.
(but the devil is one hell of a jealous dance partner)
The former got unlucky, and the latter thought they could get away with
JUST ONE dance with the devil.
(but the devil is one hell of a jealous dance partner)
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(((Interbear))). I completely understand and agree with your entire post, all of them. It is sad and unfortunate that many continue to use addiction as an excuse for poor choices and poor behavior.
As you may know, my Dad has cancer and has been fighting for his life with everything be has. I, too, find the comparison of cancer and addiction to be rather unfathomable.
I am sorry your thread has been taken in this direction. It appears to be less then supportive and more of the same old "contrarianistic" view points.
Best advice I can give you (unsolicited or not, lol) is to take what you want and leave the rest. Your recovery is inspiring and continues to shine brightly.
As you may know, my Dad has cancer and has been fighting for his life with everything be has. I, too, find the comparison of cancer and addiction to be rather unfathomable.
I am sorry your thread has been taken in this direction. It appears to be less then supportive and more of the same old "contrarianistic" view points.
Best advice I can give you (unsolicited or not, lol) is to take what you want and leave the rest. Your recovery is inspiring and continues to shine brightly.
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Cancer is not a noble disease and addiction is not ignoble. They are are caused by some combination of genetics, environment (lifestyle) and luck (probability). Some people with cancer recover - same way with addiction - some don't. Its the way it is.
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I thought about this thread yesterday when my 74 year old aunt sat at the kitchen table and told us that she was diagnosed with breast cancer and is having a double mastectomy next week.
I have tried very hard to find any thread of commonality between cancer and addiction and the only thing I (personally) can find in common is....
Left untreated...likely they will both be fatal.
I have tried very hard to find any thread of commonality between cancer and addiction and the only thing I (personally) can find in common is....
Left untreated...likely they will both be fatal.
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Where do you see this comparison all the time? Agreed, addiction is not cancer, and cancer is not addiction. There are similar situations and symptoms that occur, but that doesn't make them the same affliction.
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[QUOTE=interrupted;4259575]By whom? They aren't forced into anything. Nobody forced my sister to rob me, she CHOSE to rob me. It almost sounds like you think they are completely incapable people.
When my son was on a drug binge he was incapable of being a productive member of society. He could not even look for a job or buy food. The only thing he was capable of was getting high and obtaining quick cash.
When my son was on a drug binge he was incapable of being a productive member of society. He could not even look for a job or buy food. The only thing he was capable of was getting high and obtaining quick cash.
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[QUOTE=Upsetnneedhelp;4259993] If I remember correctly, he had just got a job as a bouncer although he had tested positive for drugs. Lastly, your son choose to be involved with a gang, use drugs, commit armed robbery, etc. etc. Drugs are just a symptom to a much bigger problem for addicts.
Originally Posted by interrupted
By whom? They aren't forced into anything. Nobody forced my sister to rob me, she CHOSE to rob me. It almost sounds like you think they are completely incapable people.
When my son was on a drug binge he was incapable of being a productive member of society. He could not even look for a job or buy food. The only thing he was capable of was getting high and obtaining quick cash.
When my son was on a drug binge he was incapable of being a productive member of society. He could not even look for a job or buy food. The only thing he was capable of was getting high and obtaining quick cash.
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The title of this thread just caught my eye and brings up a lot of emotions. To the OP, why did you not pick obesity or heart disease? My son went to over a dozen treatment centers. Just as some people don't beat cancer despite the most aggressive treatment. Not everyone can get clean and sober even when they want to more than anything in the world.
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Interrupted , please accept my apology. I'm sorry you thought I meant that you thought your sister a loser, jerk, or crummy person. That isn't at all what I meant, I was speaking in general. I've read many a post here describing ex's in such ways. I have a couple of good friends who have all the love and sympathy in the world for me and my son because they know and love me but each of them has had contact with an addict where all they have is judgement and hatred. One has to deal with an ex wife that is an addict (she and her husband have custody of their kids) the other friend has a nephew who's mom is an addict.
Another problem with addiction is that why is it that many addicts can find recovery and it sticks while countless others are chronic relapsers? Are those who stay in recovery superior people? Or are they just lucky? Oh wait they just want it more! The inference too often seems to be along the lines of the addict just isn't ready to stop being an addict (because the drug life is so wonderful?)
I understand the cancer/addiction comparison not sitting well with people, it's apples and oranges but I must say I get just as put off with the continual use of the word "choice" as if it is so simple. I wish it was but it isn't.
Another problem with addiction is that why is it that many addicts can find recovery and it sticks while countless others are chronic relapsers? Are those who stay in recovery superior people? Or are they just lucky? Oh wait they just want it more! The inference too often seems to be along the lines of the addict just isn't ready to stop being an addict (because the drug life is so wonderful?)
I understand the cancer/addiction comparison not sitting well with people, it's apples and oranges but I must say I get just as put off with the continual use of the word "choice" as if it is so simple. I wish it was but it isn't.
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It is simple, Tinks, but no one ever said it was easy. No one ever said the drug life is wonderful, either. But change is hard. It's hard for people who don't have addictions, and it's more than twice as hard for those who do.
Getting clean/sober requires a lot of changes. Not only do we have to change ourselves, we have to change our day-to-day lives in order to continue sobriety. That means saying goodbye to a lot of people, places and things.
It's doable, for those who are willing to do whatever is necessary.
Getting clean/sober requires a lot of changes. Not only do we have to change ourselves, we have to change our day-to-day lives in order to continue sobriety. That means saying goodbye to a lot of people, places and things.
It's doable, for those who are willing to do whatever is necessary.
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Tinks, when someone with cancer does not respond to treatment, society doesn't tell them they need to try harder. Addicts are told they don't want it enough or have to hit a bottom. Prison is a pretty low bottom yet some inmates continue to find and use drugs. Homelessness and shelters are pretty low bottoms but shelters are filled with people who are intoxicated. I suppose it's Gods mystery and grace that only he knows.
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IMO, for many.....drug abuse starts out as a choice but when it crosses over into addiction.....it's a whole new tragic and heartbreaking illness (disease).
I don't think I will ever understand why some can get clean, stay clean and some can not. But I don't not think it has to do with character or strength.
I don't think I will ever understand why some can get clean, stay clean and some can not. But I don't not think it has to do with character or strength.
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Cancer is a totally physical disease. If a cancer patient doesn't respond to treatment, there isn't much else they can do. The cancer will continue to spread and eventually rob them of their life.
Alcoholism is a combination of physical and mental. A person can be physically detoxed from alcohol in a few days. I was in medical detox for six days. After that, it's psychological. All of the alcohol/drugs are out of your system, so the next step is finding help for the mental addiction. This is where many addicts run into problems They cannot go back to the old friends with whom they drank or got high. They have to make some uncomfortable changes in their lives, which many times, they just aren't willing to do for whatever reason.
Alcoholism is a combination of physical and mental. A person can be physically detoxed from alcohol in a few days. I was in medical detox for six days. After that, it's psychological. All of the alcohol/drugs are out of your system, so the next step is finding help for the mental addiction. This is where many addicts run into problems They cannot go back to the old friends with whom they drank or got high. They have to make some uncomfortable changes in their lives, which many times, they just aren't willing to do for whatever reason.
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