Addiction is not cancer
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The comparison between cancer and addiction has been posted many times (over 200) in this forum alone. IMO, the only things cancer and addiction have in common is they are both diseases, and nobody chooses to get either disease.
Genetics load the gun, repeated use (behavior) and/or environment pulls the trigger. And, lets not forget to throw timing in the mix too. Many addicts are pre-wired for addiction. Addiction runs in families, some due to genetics, others environment (lifestyle), many…both. If you spend 5 minutes on the ACOA board you will read over and over how these people who are now 30, 40, 50, 60, years old were traumatized by being raised among active addiction in an addictive home. And, no matter how much the sober parent thought they were protecting the child…well guess what, that doesn’t work. And that’s why many of them go on to become addicts themselves or marry addicts.
And while addiction is not a choice, to use drugs in the first place, or to continue to use drugs after a period of abstinence, yeah there is “choice” in there to a certain degree. But, many use/used drugs. Some use a variety of drugs until they hit on one that not only makes them feel good, but it makes them feel normal. They like the feeling, and continue to use until one day the switch flips and they go from substance abusers to addicts. This is also where timing comes in, which isn’t talked about much. The brain is not fully developed in the tweens, teens, and young adults, and drugs stunt the maturation process. The drug takes a firmer hold in the developing brain. And additionally, at that age you’re 8 foot tall and bullet proof. Just like with anything in life, the more and the longer you do something, the harder it is to change the behavior.
However, there is a choice component with both diseases on whether to seek treatment or not. I would think most suffering from cancer do choose treatment (unless it has progressed to the terminal stage). But, unlike drugs, cancer doesn’t make you feel good. Choosing treatment for something that makes you feel bad is easier than choosing treatment to rid yourself of something that makes you feel good or normal. And, even after a period of abstinence the brain remembers, so when they use a mood altering substance the brain goes right back to addictive thinking and feelings.
Choice or disease doesn’t matter, I don’t give addiction much power. To me, it always comes back to behaviors. Most addicts do lie to protect their addiction, but why wouldn’t they, don’t we teach them to do so by our reactions? And, to me this is where comparing cancer to addiction become ludicrous, the behaviors. While not all addicts become abusive, cheat, and steal, I’ve seen many a cancer patient become grumpy and frustrated, but rarely do they become abusive- financially, mentally, emotionally, or physically. I don’t think (other than on TV) I’ve ever read stories where cancer patients steal or rob to get their fix of chemo. And, though it may happen, I don’t remember hearing repeated stories of cancer patients cheating on their spouses. So, I would look at the addicts behaviors…are they acceptable or not. Then I would look in the mirror and do the same.
OK, I’m done.
PS. To upsetneedhelp, I would read up on PICS (Post Incarceration Syndrome) Terence Gorski has an excellent article on it.
Genetics load the gun, repeated use (behavior) and/or environment pulls the trigger. And, lets not forget to throw timing in the mix too. Many addicts are pre-wired for addiction. Addiction runs in families, some due to genetics, others environment (lifestyle), many…both. If you spend 5 minutes on the ACOA board you will read over and over how these people who are now 30, 40, 50, 60, years old were traumatized by being raised among active addiction in an addictive home. And, no matter how much the sober parent thought they were protecting the child…well guess what, that doesn’t work. And that’s why many of them go on to become addicts themselves or marry addicts.
And while addiction is not a choice, to use drugs in the first place, or to continue to use drugs after a period of abstinence, yeah there is “choice” in there to a certain degree. But, many use/used drugs. Some use a variety of drugs until they hit on one that not only makes them feel good, but it makes them feel normal. They like the feeling, and continue to use until one day the switch flips and they go from substance abusers to addicts. This is also where timing comes in, which isn’t talked about much. The brain is not fully developed in the tweens, teens, and young adults, and drugs stunt the maturation process. The drug takes a firmer hold in the developing brain. And additionally, at that age you’re 8 foot tall and bullet proof. Just like with anything in life, the more and the longer you do something, the harder it is to change the behavior.
However, there is a choice component with both diseases on whether to seek treatment or not. I would think most suffering from cancer do choose treatment (unless it has progressed to the terminal stage). But, unlike drugs, cancer doesn’t make you feel good. Choosing treatment for something that makes you feel bad is easier than choosing treatment to rid yourself of something that makes you feel good or normal. And, even after a period of abstinence the brain remembers, so when they use a mood altering substance the brain goes right back to addictive thinking and feelings.
Choice or disease doesn’t matter, I don’t give addiction much power. To me, it always comes back to behaviors. Most addicts do lie to protect their addiction, but why wouldn’t they, don’t we teach them to do so by our reactions? And, to me this is where comparing cancer to addiction become ludicrous, the behaviors. While not all addicts become abusive, cheat, and steal, I’ve seen many a cancer patient become grumpy and frustrated, but rarely do they become abusive- financially, mentally, emotionally, or physically. I don’t think (other than on TV) I’ve ever read stories where cancer patients steal or rob to get their fix of chemo. And, though it may happen, I don’t remember hearing repeated stories of cancer patients cheating on their spouses. So, I would look at the addicts behaviors…are they acceptable or not. Then I would look in the mirror and do the same.
OK, I’m done.
PS. To upsetneedhelp, I would read up on PICS (Post Incarceration Syndrome) Terence Gorski has an excellent article on it.
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Most cancers (or chronic diseases) can be traced back to life style or environment + genetics + probability. We all know people who smoked like chimneys but lived to be a 100. Exceptions dont prove the rule. Same for diabetes or heart disease.
Physical has nothing to do with disease. Schizophrenia is entirely mental - is it not a disease? or even a migraine?
Physical has nothing to do with disease. Schizophrenia is entirely mental - is it not a disease? or even a migraine?
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Originally Posted by suki44883 
It is simple, Tinks, but no one ever said it was easy. No one ever said the drug life is wonderful, either. But change is hard. It's hard for people who don't have addictions, and it's more than twice as hard for those who do.
Getting clean/sober requires a lot of changes. Not only do we have to change ourselves, we have to change our day-to-day lives in order to continue sobriety. That means saying goodbye to a lot of people, places and things.
It's doable, for those who are willing to do whatever is necessary.
Getting clean/sober requires a lot of changes. Not only do we have to change ourselves, we have to change our day-to-day lives in order to continue sobriety. That means saying goodbye to a lot of people, places and things.
It's doable, for those who are willing to do whatever is necessary.
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Originally Posted by cynical one
[FONT="Verdana"][SIZE="2"]The comparison between cancer and addiction has been posted many times (over 200) in this forum alone. IMO, the only things cancer and addiction have in common is they are both diseases, and nobody chooses to get either disease.
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Without any direct quote its difficult for me to determine whether the OP is reading casual commentary too seriously or we're talking total 'fated to it' references...
My feeling is that every addict has the potential to recover, whereas everyone afflicted with cancer does not. I suppose I essentially agree with the OP, that if I saw this likened as the same all the time, it would grow tiresome for me too.
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Originally Posted by foolsgold66
Hmmm... Never seen it, myself, perhaps it shows up more in F&F where I don't read a great deal, and I am fairly new here as well, or I see the context differently if I have seen it. There could be some comparisons drawn between their affects, but I couldn't necessarily see them as very useful comparisons.
Without any direct quote its difficult for me to determine whether the OP is reading casual commentary too seriously or we're talking total 'fated to it' references...
My feeling is that every addict has the potential to recover, whereas everyone afflicted with cancer does not. I suppose I essentially agree with the OP, that if I saw this likened as the same all the time, it would grow tiresome for me too.
Without any direct quote its difficult for me to determine whether the OP is reading casual commentary too seriously or we're talking total 'fated to it' references...
My feeling is that every addict has the potential to recover, whereas everyone afflicted with cancer does not. I suppose I essentially agree with the OP, that if I saw this likened as the same all the time, it would grow tiresome for me too.
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I started using at the ripe old age of thirteen. I never even knew what addiction looked like, and I certainly didn't have a choice to become one.
I understand what you are saying, and have a family member with cancer...
One thing that I keep in mind is how much he would do to arrest his cancer, if he could only change his behaviour. This helps me quite a bit in recovery.
But I really believe in compassion for the addict, maddening as it is to see someone destroy themselves, because the reality of it is, there is no sane person who would choose to live in that kind of hell, over and over again.
I can only imagine how weak and stupid it appears from the outside, but in the thick of it, when you are addicted, and the cells in your body cry out for the substance, you really aren't making a conscious choice at all.
I understand what you are saying, and have a family member with cancer...
One thing that I keep in mind is how much he would do to arrest his cancer, if he could only change his behaviour. This helps me quite a bit in recovery.
But I really believe in compassion for the addict, maddening as it is to see someone destroy themselves, because the reality of it is, there is no sane person who would choose to live in that kind of hell, over and over again.
I can only imagine how weak and stupid it appears from the outside, but in the thick of it, when you are addicted, and the cells in your body cry out for the substance, you really aren't making a conscious choice at all.
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Originally Posted by Upsetnneedhelp
The title of this thread just caught my eye and brings up a lot of emotions. To the OP, why did you not pick obesity or heart disease? My son went to over a dozen treatment centers. Just as some people don't beat cancer despite the most aggressive treatment. Not everyone can get clean and sober even when they want to more than anything in the world.
Drugs and the Brain | National Institute on Drug Abuse
Chronic exposure to drugs of abuse disrupts the way critical brain structures interact to control and inhibit behaviors related to drug abuse. Just as continued abuse may lead to tolerance or the need for higher drug dosages to produce an effect, it may also lead to addiction, which can drive an abuser to seek out and take drugs compulsively. Drug addiction erodes a person's self-control and ability to make sound decisions, while sending intense impulses to take drugs.
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Originally Posted by LoveMeNow
This is a common topic on this side. It is often referred to as a "medical condition" - compared with cancer and diabetes, to name a couple.
I'm not incredibly knowledgeable of F&F 'speak', nor Al-Anon, in anything more than general concepts. I'm a drunk, have had the problem in varying degrees most of my adult life, had 8 sober years, relapsed, and am now 60 days sober.
I can't conceive how at any time in my life, drunk or sober, that I thought of my problem as a 'medical condition' or 'disease'. Could I conceive of another addict or alcoholic referring to himself as having a 'medical condition' as their primary problem? Maybe a few, but that's a bit of a stretch based on the others I've known personally and the ones that come through the door in Newcomers every day.
We get 'em in the door saying can't, hard, hopeless, its someone elses fault, keep failing, ad nauseam, but most don't even play the 'disease' card.
I personally believe its likely I have genetic predisposition to addictive behavior, but my genes didn't pour booze in my mouth and keep doing it when I knew it was harming myself and others. That possible genetic link is neither here nor there in my reality, makes no difference in the now. It is what it is, predisposed or not, it's my problem, I own it.
Maybe addicts save that 'thinking' to use on F&F in real life.
Or maybe that thinking is just codependency at its worst state, I don't know.
Are there some that are too far gone to save themselves? Perhaps. Even then, I still wouldn't call addiction a medical condition like cancer or diabetes.
Thanks to all for letting me participate in this discussion, the more F&F I read the more I am beginning to understand why you guys dispense so much 'tough love'.
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Originally Posted by foolsgold66
...the more F&F I read the more I am beginning to understand why you guys dispense so much 'tough love'.
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Originally Posted by cynical one
But, here's the thing about "tough love", I don't use that phrase as they did in those horrible after-school specials in the 70's as a way to punish or scare a naughty child straight. I see addicts as perfectly capable and intelligent adults. To me "tough love" is getting tough on myself by having boundaries and enforcing them, and being able to say NO without guilt. This is a very hard thing to do for someone with codependent tendencies.
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Boundaries & detachment for our self are perfectly understandable and logical.
I fail to understand this tough love approach. Tough love is really No Love. If you think that addiction is a disease (or if you do not agree then a psychological disorder) then why would you kick some one who is down? If you cannot love them, then at least get out of their lives and let them fend for themselves.
I fail to understand this tough love approach. Tough love is really No Love. If you think that addiction is a disease (or if you do not agree then a psychological disorder) then why would you kick some one who is down? If you cannot love them, then at least get out of their lives and let them fend for themselves.
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I like the term strong love. If you know that you cannot be nice, caring, considerate, peaceful, helpful, and your loved one is stealing, being disrespectful, causing chaos the strong love is walking away and letting the person causing the problem have their problem.
For addicts they view this as abandoning them.... well it is! Why would you want to help someone who doesn't want help? Because we want them to be successful, happy, healthy and not die, go to jail or hurt others. We cannot own people as much as we love them! As much pain and hurt it causes.
If addicts are playing the disease card its one more excuse that they do not possess the power or strength to quit and in many cases addicts are in denial about there drugs.
Strong love requires us to stop making excuses or entertaining them. Its not easy.
Cancer is not like addiction. However living with someone who is dying for any reason is comparable. Our worst fear is that addiction will kill our loved one. We cannot force recovery but we can strongly urge and support positive healthy choices in any loved one. Addicts or not.
For addicts they view this as abandoning them.... well it is! Why would you want to help someone who doesn't want help? Because we want them to be successful, happy, healthy and not die, go to jail or hurt others. We cannot own people as much as we love them! As much pain and hurt it causes.
If addicts are playing the disease card its one more excuse that they do not possess the power or strength to quit and in many cases addicts are in denial about there drugs.
Strong love requires us to stop making excuses or entertaining them. Its not easy.
Cancer is not like addiction. However living with someone who is dying for any reason is comparable. Our worst fear is that addiction will kill our loved one. We cannot force recovery but we can strongly urge and support positive healthy choices in any loved one. Addicts or not.
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Originally Posted by pravchaw
If you think that addiction is a disease (or if you do not agree then a psychological disorder) then why would you kick some one who is down?
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I believe my step-daughter is very capable of recovering from her addiction. I get frustrated by family members who say that she can't help it or that she can't do it on her own. They say she is incapable of taking care of herself--that is the excuse for rescuing her from her mistakes. By continuing to rescue her, they are proving their belief that she can't take care of herself. It is a self-fulfilling prophesy. My stepdaughter repeats all these things--she says she's not smart enough or doesn't have the ability to do these things on her own.
I believe that my stepdaughter is very smart and extremely capable (how else would she have survived living on the streets?). She has an incredible ability to communicate with people--she only needs to learn to use it for good, not for manipulating people into doing things for her. She is 24 years old, and I have not given up on her. I will not do things for her--because I know she is capable. I believe in her. I love her.
I believe that my stepdaughter is very smart and extremely capable (how else would she have survived living on the streets?). She has an incredible ability to communicate with people--she only needs to learn to use it for good, not for manipulating people into doing things for her. She is 24 years old, and I have not given up on her. I will not do things for her--because I know she is capable. I believe in her. I love her.
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Originally Posted by pravchaw
I fail to understand this tough love approach. Tough love is really No Love. If you think that addiction is a disease (or if you do not agree then a psychological disorder) then why would you kick some one who is down? If you cannot love them, then at least get out of their lives and let them fend for themselves.
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Ok, here's my two cents,
Everyone has a right to there opinion, for me personally I cannot understand the comparison of drug addiction and cancer,or diabetes or etc....
I don't know what drug addicts are going through and with gods help I never will, I do believe that the core of it is , they want to get high, they like to get high and so they will get high and all of a sudden I have to change because now I am labeled as a codependent , because of this one persons choice , my Son is the drug addict and I will always love him but what I see is that he can choose to stop everyday but does not , I mean I know there are people that recover so no I don't buy that he can't help himself and because of that I have to make choices as well that no parent should have to make .
I'm sorry he is addicted , I'm sure no one wanted to get addicted but you reap what you sow .....god help us all
Everyone has a right to there opinion, for me personally I cannot understand the comparison of drug addiction and cancer,or diabetes or etc....
I don't know what drug addicts are going through and with gods help I never will, I do believe that the core of it is , they want to get high, they like to get high and so they will get high and all of a sudden I have to change because now I am labeled as a codependent , because of this one persons choice , my Son is the drug addict and I will always love him but what I see is that he can choose to stop everyday but does not , I mean I know there are people that recover so no I don't buy that he can't help himself and because of that I have to make choices as well that no parent should have to make .
I'm sorry he is addicted , I'm sure no one wanted to get addicted but you reap what you sow .....god help us all
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