A choice???
Getting there!!
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 5,750
A choice???
Another thread got me wondering if addiction and/or recovery is as simple as a choice.
Some literature states that an addict will not stop until the pain becomes too great and that a spiritual awakening must occur!
I have a friend who did everything to quit drinking and couldn't. Then it happened. She feels like she hit that "magic number" - the spiritual awakening happened and she truly lost all the desires to drink.
My husband has asked many people "how do you know when you are done?" They tell him you will just know!! I truly believe he has the desire to quit but continues to wait and at times even seems to push it for that "lightbulb" or spiritual awakening to happen....and continues wonder why God won't help him but has helped others.
Today, he is clean. However, does not feel like he can maintain it with NA alone. He says he feels like a failure to himself and the NA program but has decided to go back to the VIVITROL shot.
I don't know if this is recovery or not but I certainly know death is not. Just between us here, I wonder if he will miss out on that spiritual awakening or magic number if he goes back on the shot. I know it's his choice but I do still have private thoughts about it.
I guess the same questions could be asked about a codependent.......what does it take before WE really want to change? God knows I have felt the pain, been down that dark whole, lost so much and yet I still love and have hope for the man I see before me today. Bottom line is ...... I am not done yet, not today. And sometimes knowing that just makes me feel bad about myself.
Some literature states that an addict will not stop until the pain becomes too great and that a spiritual awakening must occur!
I have a friend who did everything to quit drinking and couldn't. Then it happened. She feels like she hit that "magic number" - the spiritual awakening happened and she truly lost all the desires to drink.
My husband has asked many people "how do you know when you are done?" They tell him you will just know!! I truly believe he has the desire to quit but continues to wait and at times even seems to push it for that "lightbulb" or spiritual awakening to happen....and continues wonder why God won't help him but has helped others.
Today, he is clean. However, does not feel like he can maintain it with NA alone. He says he feels like a failure to himself and the NA program but has decided to go back to the VIVITROL shot.
I don't know if this is recovery or not but I certainly know death is not. Just between us here, I wonder if he will miss out on that spiritual awakening or magic number if he goes back on the shot. I know it's his choice but I do still have private thoughts about it.
I guess the same questions could be asked about a codependent.......what does it take before WE really want to change? God knows I have felt the pain, been down that dark whole, lost so much and yet I still love and have hope for the man I see before me today. Bottom line is ...... I am not done yet, not today. And sometimes knowing that just makes me feel bad about myself.
Magsie
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: UK
Posts: 26,683
I remember my dad saying to me, 'you just have to set your mind, decide you aren't going to drink anymore', thing is deep down then I didn't want to stop. It was only when I had a sharp awaking, ie my h walked out, did I look at myself and not like what I saw and had become, weak and dependant to the calls of the bottle.we have reconciled but I could not stop for anyone it had to be for me. The time to think on my own and take stock did just that and I realised, especially after reading posts on SR, and my dad was a big drinker all his life, so it could be like a light switch inside, though I would like a drink sometimes, it is getting less and less, I won't give in to it, I'm not that person anymore.
Nature Girl
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: By The Lake
Posts: 60,328
Staying spiritually connected helped me when I was working on shaking my codependency. I fell back into old patterns several times, but in hindsight I see that each time I was a little more "done".
Each time the insanity of doing the codependent dance became clearer and one day I just looked at who I had become and the fact that my son was still doing what he always did...and I gave my son's care to God, right then and right there. I was done, finally. It took time and testing before I knew that done was "done". I saw things through a new perspective and no longer saw what he was doing as having anything to do with me. And I healed.
We each have our own time for "done". It may come more quickly for those in immediate danger or with young children who need stability and joy in their lives. I was a slow learner, but I DID finally learn but not a moment before I had had enough.
If my son had gotten clean and remained clean, I might be in a whole different place with this. For me, the pain of remaining stuck in my codependency became greater than the fear of what might happen if I stopped trying to save my son.
Don't beat yourself up. You have grown stronger and wiser and more secure in your recovery and there are no right or wrong answers, just that which is right for you and you alone.
Hugs
Each time the insanity of doing the codependent dance became clearer and one day I just looked at who I had become and the fact that my son was still doing what he always did...and I gave my son's care to God, right then and right there. I was done, finally. It took time and testing before I knew that done was "done". I saw things through a new perspective and no longer saw what he was doing as having anything to do with me. And I healed.
We each have our own time for "done". It may come more quickly for those in immediate danger or with young children who need stability and joy in their lives. I was a slow learner, but I DID finally learn but not a moment before I had had enough.
If my son had gotten clean and remained clean, I might be in a whole different place with this. For me, the pain of remaining stuck in my codependency became greater than the fear of what might happen if I stopped trying to save my son.
Don't beat yourself up. You have grown stronger and wiser and more secure in your recovery and there are no right or wrong answers, just that which is right for you and you alone.
Hugs
Member
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 864
Vivitrol is a tool, that is all. It isn’t going to prevent him from having a spiritual awakening.
Think of it this way, he is taking a chance on himself and set up a safety net. To have the self awareness to do that is a good thing. Who says a spiritual awakening isn’t something like that. Knowing yourself enough to know what you need to do for you.
And the sense of failure, Asking how another knew they were done? See there is that codie sneaking in. He will have to find a way to accept his path as he walked it. There was something he had to learn. Maybe it was that he has to do what HE feels is best for his recovery, stop letting those in NA and anyone for that matter tell him what he needs to do, and actually find that on his own. NA is just another tool, nothing more.
There is something to be said for doing it ones own way. It isn’t a bad thing and it will be a learning experience.
And bringing God in, well I am not sure God has any control either. God certainly did leave him behind. No one left him behind, but him.
Oh and today ponder what done means to you? What do you want to be done with?
And maybe also go out and have some fun, live cause life will not be waiting on you or anyone. Don't miss a thing.
Think of it this way, he is taking a chance on himself and set up a safety net. To have the self awareness to do that is a good thing. Who says a spiritual awakening isn’t something like that. Knowing yourself enough to know what you need to do for you.
And the sense of failure, Asking how another knew they were done? See there is that codie sneaking in. He will have to find a way to accept his path as he walked it. There was something he had to learn. Maybe it was that he has to do what HE feels is best for his recovery, stop letting those in NA and anyone for that matter tell him what he needs to do, and actually find that on his own. NA is just another tool, nothing more.
There is something to be said for doing it ones own way. It isn’t a bad thing and it will be a learning experience.
And bringing God in, well I am not sure God has any control either. God certainly did leave him behind. No one left him behind, but him.
Oh and today ponder what done means to you? What do you want to be done with?
And maybe also go out and have some fun, live cause life will not be waiting on you or anyone. Don't miss a thing.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: In the Middle
Posts: 632
When I quit using drugs it wasn't that I had some magical spiritual awakening. Honestly... I quit because I was pregnant, but for years before that I started becoming tired. Sick and tired of my life the way it was and wanted to change. Being pregnant for the second time and not being so severely addicted I took the time to heal. It wasn't some magical spiritual awakening. It was a decision.
Yet, now that I look back on it, I FEEL that it must have been some divine intervention for me to continue on this path. Does that make sense?
There were many days that I looked back and I immediately brought to memory that low feeling and that feeling that I never wanted again so I wouldn't use. I don't use because I never want to feel so powerless again.
Keep in mind.. that he may not realize that he has had a spiritual awakening.. until years later, like I did. I hope that helps.
Yet, now that I look back on it, I FEEL that it must have been some divine intervention for me to continue on this path. Does that make sense?
There were many days that I looked back and I immediately brought to memory that low feeling and that feeling that I never wanted again so I wouldn't use. I don't use because I never want to feel so powerless again.
Keep in mind.. that he may not realize that he has had a spiritual awakening.. until years later, like I did. I hope that helps.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 1,698
Hi everyone. As anyone who has ready my posts, you kow that my Addict is my oldest son. Heroin use, jail, homeless etc for almost three years. He is now sober, happy and healthy for the last 8 months after spending a lot of time in jail, on the streets and in rehab. He shared with me a few weeks ago, the moment he had that spiritual enlightenment. He had shot up meth and was in a paranoid manic state for 8 hours, running from the "enemy" and his night was utter total chaos and panic. He said that all of his fears he has ever had all consumed him at one time. He looked at himself in the mirror and said that is the last time he ever wanted to feel that way. He had a spiritual experience (the story is much longer than I can type here), but he knew there was another way to live life. He chose that way. He then stole a loaf of bread to get arrested (I know so stupid right?) and spent almost 4 months in jail fighting to get his probation back. He went to Freedom Ranch on July 2 and graduated on October 18. He is actively looking for a job, living at home, going to meetings, and is the most balanced ad steady I have EVER seen him. He tells me daily, he is committed to his sobriety and is protecting it at all costs. He also has "owned" his addiction and there is no excuses being made. He is prepared to pay his fines and move forward.
He believes that the choice is always there to use or not, BUT the addict must hit that bottom. My son had a deep one.
He believes that the choice is always there to use or not, BUT the addict must hit that bottom. My son had a deep one.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: The Jungle
Posts: 5,435
Incitingsilence asked a very good question. What does "done" mean in terms of us.....the loved one of the addict?
Done for me means that I was done feeling like crap all the time. I was done allowing another person(s) hold the keys to my emotional state. I was done putting up with behaviors that were absolutely unacceptable. I was done with sleepless nights. I was done with spending my energy on worrying about things that I had no control over. I was done spending money intended for my retirement on spin cycle rehabs. I was done doing things for my son that he was fully capable of doing for himself.
But I will never be done loving my son.
Does that make me a loser/winner or less than/greater than another whose definition of done is different? Absolutely not.
But when is an addict done LMN?......when they are.......and not a moment sooner.
gentle hugs
ke
Done for me means that I was done feeling like crap all the time. I was done allowing another person(s) hold the keys to my emotional state. I was done putting up with behaviors that were absolutely unacceptable. I was done with sleepless nights. I was done with spending my energy on worrying about things that I had no control over. I was done spending money intended for my retirement on spin cycle rehabs. I was done doing things for my son that he was fully capable of doing for himself.
But I will never be done loving my son.
Does that make me a loser/winner or less than/greater than another whose definition of done is different? Absolutely not.
But when is an addict done LMN?......when they are.......and not a moment sooner.
gentle hugs
ke
Member
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 1,443
I really needed to read this today. My daughter is 25. Went to her first alcohol rehab at 19 following a DUI. Met the chef in the rehab who is twice her age who got her hooked on heroin. They finally got clean together a couple of years ago, but apparently are now hooked on meth. I don't know what it will take for her to be done. She is homeless, license suspended for non-payment of tickets, and her car is ready to be repo'd. I live out of the country so I am not sure what is going on with her. I NEED to be done with worry, fear, etc. Thanks for your posts.....
Member
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,384
Originally Posted by LoveMeNow 
I guess the same questions could be asked about a codependent.......what does it take before WE really want to change? God knows I have felt the pain, been down that dark whole, lost so much and yet I still love and have hope for the man I see before me today. Bottom line is ...... I am not done yet, not today. And sometimes knowing that just makes me feel bad about myself.
You have good questions, and I have no answers.
Getting there!!
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 5,750
Originally Posted by bluebelle
In order for a codependent to change, do they have to leave their addicted significant other? I don't think that if you left your husband, it would mean that you were automatically "done" with codependency. You could leave, and still be involved in all of the addicted thinking. You could leave, but find other ways to manifest codependency--through friends, work, other relationships. Once an addict stops taking a drug, it doesn't mean they are "done." They could be a dry drunk. They could be unhappy and angry because they are unhappy.
You have good questions, and I have no answers.
You have good questions, and I have no answers.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,384
Originally Posted by LoveMeNow
Oh I agree, my husband is not to blame for my problem or behavior. That said, we do so many blame drugs for an addicts problems??
Member
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,384
I don't blame the drugs for addicts problems. I think that if there were no drugs, there would be other addictions--gambling, sex, shopping, eating. I think that the addict on drugs is not a separate person from the addict. Yes, they act differently while actively using the drugs, but they are not a new person. That's why recovery is life long.
I believe in the saying that if you take away the alcohol from a drunk horse thief, you still have a horse thief.
I believe in the saying that if you take away the alcohol from a drunk horse thief, you still have a horse thief.
Sober since 10th April 2012
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Posts: 6,047
Great post LMN. It's complicated. As someone who experienced the 'lightbulb' moment I know it's an amazing motivator, but I truly don't think it would have gone on as long as it has without support from SR.
Time sober can make us overconfident; look at the people who are long past the physical addiction but go back to their DOC.
FWIW, I think drawing on every support shows motivation to quit. I guess your husband is trying just as hard in his own way as someone who can get clean without medication.
Time sober can make us overconfident; look at the people who are long past the physical addiction but go back to their DOC.
FWIW, I think drawing on every support shows motivation to quit. I guess your husband is trying just as hard in his own way as someone who can get clean without medication.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Dallas TX
Posts: 2,282
Originally Posted by LoveMeNow
Oh I agree, my husband is not to blame for my problem or behavior. That said, we do so many blame drugs for an addicts problems??
I don't blame drugs for the life catastrophe endured by the addict I
cared about. I'm 90+ percent sure she was abused as a child/young
lady.......there were FAR too many clues to ignore,some of which would
raise the hairs on the back of your neck---involving persons CLOSE
to her, not strangers.
Given SR is a substance abuse website....sometimes we get a little
technocratic in our zeal to find the best way to patch our bike tires,
but failing to notice:
A) We have to repair the tire every 10 feet of travel.
-and-
B) The ground is covered in nails.
In her case, drugs were merely a symptom of a very troubled soul.
Without repairing that soul---- we can use up all the band aids in the box
(or rehabs @ $70K/pop)
..........to no effect.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 1,443
Just found out my (addict) daughter picked up her mail from our tenant in CA. I told her she could use the address since she has court papers, etc. and I think she is homeless. BUT... now it seems that she is sending some kind of packages and other mail there as well. I e-mailed her yesterday to tell her there were packages there. Asked her for a forwarding address. Instead of responding to me, she just went to the house. I am worried that she may steal from/bother the tenant...who is already mailing our mail to Costa Rica, or that she may end up with some of our mail. Apparently, the tenant gave her his phone number. Not sure what to do. I know that she is still in her addiction. My husband wants to tell the tenant to return everything to sender. I think this would be more of a hassle. She was receiving mail at her boyfriend's mother's house, but she now has a restraining order on him. Any advice would be helpful.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 1,443
Yeah, we are going to call him today, but I need to figure out if we should take the hard line and tell her we are not going to allow her to use the address anymore (which my husband wants to do) or just let her and the tenant work it out and let her keep using it.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 864
I think for many it is just easier to blame the drug then to have think that omg the person they love was something they didn't know.
And what might make that worse for some is this dismissal of the truth. Not everyone goes in blind, so many knew of the addiction, they knew the history, they even researched it all out, and still jumped in thinking it would never happen again.
Have you at all noticed that some of the same people who blame the drug, also blame the addicts for all the things wrong in their lives. As if....
That is the contradiction that makes me shake my head.
And what might make that worse for some is this dismissal of the truth. Not everyone goes in blind, so many knew of the addiction, they knew the history, they even researched it all out, and still jumped in thinking it would never happen again.
Have you at all noticed that some of the same people who blame the drug, also blame the addicts for all the things wrong in their lives. As if....
That is the contradiction that makes me shake my head.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 1,443
Talked to the tenant and found out that not only was SHE receiving packages and mail, but she let this 43 year old guy she is with (the chef from rehab) use the address too. Informed the tenant that they both have drug charges pending and court dates. He needs to be safe. Told him not to let them in the house (He is a coin collector). E-mailed my daughter that she has until Nov. 10th to put in a change of address, or everything will be "returned to sender".
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