Jane11

Hi, I have been reading various posts on this site for a while now and deciding whether or not to post myself, and where would be the right place.

To cut a hugely long story short I have an alcoholic bf and am really struggling with it all and wanted to hear any advice, thoughts, whatever to try and see clearly as I am literally in a pit of emotional turmoil with it all.

I have seen on here threads about BPD, specifically narcissistic behaviours and alcohol and have been trying to get my head around whether his behaviour is to do with some kind of personality disorder or it is simply the alcoholism that has taken over his life. He is very jealous, controlling, has been both verbally and physically abuse despite telling me very early on that he loved me and he wanted a future with me, and most recently after our last separation verbally abusive towards my family which has made the situation even worse.

I have talked to him about the emotional side (not face to face as it's very difficult to do this without him becoming angry mainly), and he seems to be able to establish the root of all this and tells me much of his behaviour is because he is terrified of losing me, he suffers from anxiety issues, but obviously I struggle with how this can be the case when he behaves as he does then he will lose me, and clearly he can't see this as the cycle of events has been going on for months and months.

I have read so much, and so much has been said between me and him that I guess I am just at a point of not knowing what is real and what is not. The alcohol addiction has been present from the start of the relationship and has intermittently been better and worse. He can be a kind caring person but also has said and done some things that to most people would be unforgivable- he blames and fails to accept responsibility but later will apologise and seem to understand my point of view, but always want to brush incidents away too quickly.

I mean can I believe from some of his actions he loves me- yes, but from others I must be stupid to think he does, surely after what I have been through (I won't list but I am sure others have heard and seen terrible things and can imagine). Is it possible he loved me so quickly and wants a future with me or does it point towards some kind of narcissistic or psychopathic behaviour?? I'm just so confused.

Since the last episode and me walking out (although he was sober I could no longer withstand the emotional and physical stress of the situation living in fear and walking on eggshells), he has mixed between being sober and apologetic, telling me he loves me, will start a new med, get help for his behaviour, talked again about our future, but again today I think he is drinking and he has gone off the radar after some incoherent ramblings.

I'm just at my wits end, I have become deeply depressed, my family and friends are concerned, I love this man, I want him to sort his life out and have a life with me but does he even want that?? I can't seem to see clearly whether his actions and words are the desperation of an alcoholic who is in love or just an alcoholic who wants me to believe he is. We haven't seen each other for around a month so I don't see he has any reason to still keep in touch if he just simply doesn't want to be with me and it was all BS surely??

Like I said I'm so confused- what is real what's not? How can he say all these positive things one minute and then be drinking the next? What should I do? I live in constant fear I will get a call saying he's dead. I want a life with him but I don't know what to believe and what to do. I know only he can help himself but I don't want to cut him off completely, partly for fear of what will happen to him and partly of fear as to what his retaliation will be I guess.

I would love any thoughts and advice from other people in this situation or even recovering alcoholics who could shed some light on the thought process that obviously I will never in my head be able to fully understand from his point of view. I'm just hurting so bad and I know he must be too.

All my friends and family think I am crazy for what I have dealt with so far and I know it would kill them if I go back to him because of how they have seen him treat me (which I can't let myself until he is sober fully I know this),but it's like nobody understands how I feel. I feel like my life has completely changed and so has my personality fro, this entire experience, and sometimes he seems to get that other times not.

Sorry for the long post, and input would be welcome and maybe I can try and get my head straight.

biminiblue

This is much more than alcohol. This is abuse.

Run - far and fast.


~signed,

Been There.

happybeingme

Abuse is abuse and it is never ok. As far as personality disorders and alcoholism there is no way to know if its one or the other until the alcohol is removed for a decent period of time. And I am talking at least six months.

Medications for any mental illness will not work right and can kill if he is still drinking.

I am no medical expert but I believe an abuser is an abuser whether or not they are also an alcoholic. Why would you want to stay with someone who causes you so much pain? You are worthy of a good man who loves, respects and honors you. You cannot love someone into good health. Please be safe

honeypig

Hi, Jane11. I'm glad you found your way to SR and hope you find the support you're looking for here.

Can I suggest that it doesn't really matter why he does the things he does? He may be an alcoholic. He may have a personality disorder or mental illness. He may be an abusive man. He may be all of the above, or none of the above. But really, what is the difference? The end result, no matter the cause, is that you're being treated badly. It's not up to you to figure out what his problem is and/or fix it. That's up to him, if/when he has any interest in it.

You're trying to deal rationally with someone who is not capable of being rational. Logic will not work. Neither will love. If you've been reading here, you already know those things, right?

The stickies at the top of the page may be very helpful to you, if you've not seen them yet. Try these 3 sections particularly, and especially the one about abuse:
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...out-abuse.html
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...-recovery.html
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...c-reading.html

Please find some in-person support for yourself also, like Alanon and/or an abuse or domestic violence center. Above all, keep safe and keep in touch, OK?

Wishing you strength and clarity.

ladyscribbler

He is very jealous, controlling, has been both verbally and physically abuse despite telling me very early on that he loved me and he wanted a future with me,

I mean can I believe from some of his actions he loves me- yes, but from others I must be stupid to think he does, surely after what I have been through (I won't list but I am sure others have heard and seen terrible things and can imagine). Is it possible he loved me so quickly and wants a future with me or does it point towards some kind of narcissistic or psychopathic behaviour?? I'm just so confused.

You're not stupid. It's part of the cycle of abuse. The good stuff that we want to separate out and believe is the "real person" coming through and the verbal and physical abuse are all part of the same cycle, perpetrated by the same person, whether drunk or sober.
Telling you early on that he loved you etc. is a very common tactic for abusers to use.
I think that the "why" here doesn't matter as much as the fact that any kind of abuse is unacceptable behavior. Yes, domestic abusers and alcoholics often suffer from underlying mental health issues. It doesn't make their behavior more acceptable. The "diagnosis" really only matters if THEY make the decision that they want to change and are willing to do the hard work necessary to make that happen.
Honeypig provided some good links for you. I especially found this article helpful.

http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...oint-view.html

I am a big one for wanting to diagnose other people's issues and try to "fix" and "help", so reading the article from the abusers POV was very eye-opening for me.
This one is not in the stickies, but is a good overview on the cycle of DV.

The Cycle of Abuse | Respect For Women

HealingWillCome

You've received very sound advice here, Jane. I'm sorry you're hurting. I've been in that struggle...trying to find answers to "why" so that I could somehow figure out "how" to fix everything.

The search for answers only tends to prolong the agony. The truth is, you may never know why he does the things he does. As long as you search for the whys, you will be neglecting your own needs. It's okay to put your focus on yourself. It's necessary, in fact, if what you are seeking is true happiness. Keep posting here, and read the links people have provided. They are full of the kinds of answers that will truly help you.

maia1234

Jane, I am sorry that your life is so out of control. So our a lot of other people her at SR. The issue is for your safety. You need to understand why you think his behavior is acceptable to you. What would you do if your sister's BF was doing this to her, what would you tell her? You need to step out of your box, accept that you can love him from a distance and RUN!!! You need to take some time to clear out your head. It is ok to love someone that is not healthy. But it is unacceptable to have a physical abuse. If he get really drunk and out of his mind, who knows what he will do.

So please pack what you need and put it aside if you havent already moved out. You need to have an exit plan in place. Try and find an alanon meeting, open AA meeting or keep reading the great things the people on SR have posted. You will learn a ton her about addiction.

Please take care of yourself and read, read, read!!

redatlanta

Trying to figure out why he does the things he does ends up being a reason to not accept what he has done and try and disprove who he is.

This is who he is. Because someone is alcoholic does not make them verbally or physically abuse - that is ALL him.

Welcome here and I hope that you will stay around and become more informed. There are several members here who have dealt with the same that can offer (unfortunately) first hand experience.

SallyTaylor

I agree with all the posters and left my abusive alcoholic husband this summer and am filing for divorce. I spent months into years puzzling over the whys and whether it was NPD, alcohol abuse, anger, etc and in the end it simply didn't matter - shoddy treatment, disrespect and verbal abuse could no longer be tolerated in my life.

In addition to this forum, I found Lundy Bancroft's book "Why Does He Do That? Inside the Minds of Angry and Controlling Men" to be an invaluable resource. It satisfied my itch to understand why and to parse out between all the potential contributing factors of substance abuse to anger and everything in between, yet it gently pushed me into action. He also wrote "should I stay or should I go" to help figure out if your relationship with any of these types of problems can be saved. I did all of the journaling exercises and it really helped me sharpen my thinking and get a handle on my emotions.

Good luck. I know it is SO SO hard. One step at a time. Use the Forum - this place is amazing!

marie1960

Jane , best I have to offer, let this one go.

if you are not willing and able to cut him off completely, I can promise you there will be more abuse in the future, he will continue to do the same crap, as long as you accept his unacceptable actions.

i am so sorry that you are currently hurting, but I can also assure you that you will not always feel this way, put some time and distance between the two of you, and in time you will be able to think and see the truth of the situation.

You deserve so much better, but only you can decide that for yourself.

Keep posting it helps to get it all out.

We are listening.

amy55

Hi Jane and welcome to SR. I don't suggest this often, but put your sneakers on and run like an angry swarm of bees are after you.

What you wrote described my life, and you would think it's bad now, if you stay, you will look back on this period of time, and think it's normal. It will have gotten so bad that you would actually welcome him to returning to this state. (I know, sick!!!!), but I was like that.

You didn't say how old you were or how long you have been dating or whether you wanted children. The way he is now, would you want to have children with him?

Since you are looking for answers I can answer some of your questions. The answer is there is no single answer, and you will make yourself crazy looking for one.

Some of the things that I did find out from my ex was, I wasn't allowed to be upset, because that just made him mad. (It made him feel inferior, rotten, like a monster, is how he described it). So if I got upset, I became his enemy, and you know what you do to your enemy? You destroy them. Do you want to live on a battlefield the rest of your life?

The love/hate thing. As long as you agree with everything, they are usually fine. If you question anything, or have your own view or opinion, or if you just need to say that something upset you, well you just opened up the gates of hell, and he will destroy you. He will then treat you like you don't exist. This can happen going from love to hate, in say, 5 seconds!!!!!!

I wasted years doing research. The fact was he was abusive to me, and had no plans to stop being the way he was. It would mean that he would need to look at himself and he just simply was not able to do that. It was better for him if he could blame everything, and I do mean everything on me.

I lowered my bar so low on my boundaries, that I just wanted him to treat me like a human being, then I lowered it again to just treat me like I exist.

You know sometimes you read stories about abuse, and the person who is being abused actually feels a sense of relief after the abuser explodes or hits them. It's because the walking on eggshells finally stopped. The anger erupted already. See, for me it was that, but it was also a feeling of (I don't know), I felt like he was treating me like I existed, that he actually saw me, but he didn't really.

I would watch his eyes then, his body language. He was actually at war with himself, I just happened to be in the same room, so he lashed out at me. But he never saw "me". His eyes would turn so dark, like he was looking right through me.

Please stay gone, don't stay like I did. I put in 25 yrs with this.

(((((((((((hugs)))))))))))
amy

ShootingStar1

Remember that old cop TV show? The one where they said "Just the facts, Ma'am, just the facts".

That's where you are. It doesn't matter why he does what he does. It doesn't matter if it is narcissism, alcoholism, or any other "ism".

What matters is what he does. His actions are king here.

Many of us have drowned ourselves in the conumdrum of "well did he do it because he drank, or is he mentally ill, and does that mean I give him a break, because, well after all, if he is sick, I would be mean to leave him, but then again, it gets worse when he drinks, but then again, sometimes he is nice and just when I am settled down again, THERE HE GOES AGAIN...."

What matters are the concrete facts of how your life feels when you are in relationship with him.

If you don't feel good, then this relationship is not good for you.

The next question many of us ask is "Well, then, can't I just fix it? The relationship? Can't I single-handedly make it BETTER?" And what this usually translates to is "Can't I make HIM live the way I think HE should? Can't I make him be the partner that I know he COULD BE if only he WOULD BE?"

And what lurks beneath that is the dirty little secret that most of us, especially when we are new to SoberRecovery but old to having a alcoholic partner, just DON'T WANT TO KNOW:

We didn't cause it;
We can't cure it; and
We can't control it.

You've been at this long enough to see the cycles. He is sweet and loving, and you remember who you thought he was when you met him. Then that slides down into abusive behavior, then you draw a line and he fears he will lose you, so he re-charges into being, briefly, the guy you think he has the potential to be. Then that gets hard and he'd rather have his alcohol and his alcoholic lifestyle, and he starts to slip again and this time he blames you, and next time into the cycle, he abuses you.

Best thing I can suggest is to first sort out what the cycle is between the two of you, and see where you are in that cycle.

You can't change him. If this is the cycle he is committed to, it is all you will ever have until HE decides to change, if he ever decides that.

Your choice then becomes whether this life, this repetitive cycle, is what you want for the rest of your life. And, add to that the fact that alcoholism is progressive, and you may be seeing the best that there is to see, now with further deterioration later.

Sometimes putting the shoe on the other foot is the best path of action. If you can't live with him as he is now and as he appears to be committed to being, then tell him and leave him. Tell him if he wants you, to come back when he is seriously working a strong program and has 6 months sobriety under his belt and the momentum to keep working forever to stay sober.

Then start living your own life, taking care of your own depression, knitting back the relationships with you family and friends. All the while, he will do whatever he will do. In six months, more will be revealed. And no matter what happens, you will already be happier and healthier within yourself.

It is a hard grief strewn path, and I am so sorry that you are going through this. Stay close to SR, this group is awesome with compassion and understanding and truth. Take what you want, and leave the rest,

ShootingStar1

Jane11

Thank you so much for all your responses I am overwhelmed by your support. I am so glad I found this site as I don't feel like I can talk to anyone else as I don't feel they understand the situation.

Thank you for the links I have been trying to read as much as I can and I feel this does help to some extent but then sometimes I feel overwhelmed. I read some links on BPD and he seems to fit in with many of the signs here, but like some of you have said it is irrelevant what he is or why he does it as abuse is abuse. I don't know why I seem to be so intent on finding an answer and wanting to share this information with him also- is this normal?

I haven't been able to go NC with him but I left the place we lived in together around a month ago after another row erupted and I just couldn't take anymore. The thing is I don't miss the arguments, the alcohol, the aggression, feeling scared and walking on eggshells but I do miss him and I love him, or maybe after much reading I think I loved only part of him and the ideal of what he could be when things were good but sadly this wasn't the whole story.

I just can't seem to let go and I don't know why. He has been drunk on and off since I left as he has admitted to me, although I could clearly tell by his tone on messages he was sending. I've told him that he needs or seriously sort himself out before this can move forward and he says he's starting a new medication he is going to see someone about mental health but the next minute I think is he and will he even do this. It's like he can't understand that after everything I've put him through I need more than words, he says he understands my feelings but keeps saying he needs to see me and it's killing him and he won't be able to do it.

Tonight I have blocked him as I fear he is either drunk again or just trying to finish me off with his hurtful words and having the most bizarre discussion about sexual things, things I said at the start of the relationship that he says hurt him so now he is retaliating saying well what if I spoke about x y z how would you like that and it has left me reading it and crying so I had to block him so that I didn't have to read anymore- is this normal behaviour, does he just want to stick the final knife in. He constantly brings up the past and can't let anything go, I guess this is because he has to point out the smallest error I might of made or thing I said that hurt him even if that was months ago and yet his errors and hurt were a regular and recent occurrence.

I guess I just wish the pain got easier, I have felt so angry about the way he treated me and things he said to my family but also I am so deeply sad as I thought he loved me and maybe he didn't. He love bombed me, he did do sweet things but maybe it was all fake and the pain of that is unbearable.

Since I left it has been a mix between him confessing his undying love and then being vile to me, him saying he's not sure if it will work but blaming me because I do not want to see him, and then if I say fine he turns and says he wants it to work- I just can't keep up.

I know it is entirely controlling my life and my life and personality has changed dramatically since I met him so why do I feel so sad that I'm no longer there with him and wish we could be together?? I just don't understand myself, it's not logical. I guess part of it is that he consumed my life and therefore now I am left feeling like I have nothing and feel very alone remembering we used to cook together and watch movies etc. I currently don't have a job and lost several opportunities because of his behaviour, I'm living with family when I used to be independent and I don't even feel like getting out of bed on a daily basis when I used to be such a motivated person.

I know I need to just cut it off completely but I can't help feeling what if it could be different, will he change, when the conversation is good I do like talking to him etc etc. but from much of what I've read I should just move on because it is unlikely to be an easy road if I choose to take it. But moving on is so much easier said than done.

In some warped way when he does message me and just doesn't seem to listen to anything I say, understand, be sorry etc I feel like it's confirming to me that I should walk away but then I feel guilt like if I do will he do something stupid, I love him I don't want him to carry on drinking and he's had hospital visits before due to his drinking, and as much as I know I can't control it I want to help him and I so badly wanted a life with this man.

When I cut him off I cave because I feel like well at least if I have some contact then I know he's alive and some of the conversations are ok and I feel the warmth and love again.

I know this is all probably ramblings but I guess that's where my head is at- complete confusion. It's hard enough to get over someone you love in the breakdown of a normal relationship but how do you get over someone who you felt so intensley close to and you feel that they could be a better person and could be a future and you don't want to see them drink themselves to death.

I read things on various forums and have moments of clarity and motivation that I must get on with my life but so soon I am just back to deep despair and sadness again.

Sorry for the long rambling post, I just feel so sad and confused

Flavia2

Hi Jane,
You've gotten a lot of good advice here. I was just wondering- what are your dreams for the future? Do you want to have a family? Travel? Start a business? Volunteer? Go back to school?
I ask because I don't think you really need to be making a final decision about him right now; you can just start living your life and if he "fixes" his "problems" you can get back together. If and when that happens, you'll be better off if you focus on you.
I think you did the right thing by blocking him- just because he's angry he doesn't have the right to rage on you.
Best of luck.

ladyscribbler

I got stuck on my ex's potential for a long time. If only he would stop drinking, do xyz, whatever, then he would be the man I knew he could be, the man I thought I had fallen in love with and we could be happy.
But I couldn't have a relationship with his potential. I couldn't keep putting myself and my kids in danger because I was hoping he would change so that we could be a happy family.
He did not want to change. Sure, when I left for a "trial separation" he tried a lot of manipulation, just like your ex is doing, like most abusers do, alcoholic or not. The loving words to win me back, the venom to make sure that I knew everything was my fault, the incoherent drunken rants when he forgot he was supposed to be in recovery to save our relationship.
He never wanted to do anything other than what he was doing. He wanted to keep drinking and he wanted me to stick around to clean up his messes and be a punching bag for when he felt like crap. He was not capable of loving himself, there was certainly no room in his heart for anyone else. Not me, not our son, not even his own parents. After I left he punched his mother in the face and threatened to kill his father because they refused to give him money.
I tried with all my might to save our relationship, but after I left and did some work on myself I realized that our relationship had mostly been in my head, me fantasizing about how good things COULD BE if only...
I wasted five years waiting for the "if only" to come to pass. It has been a year since I left and he is still drinking and deteriorating, alienating everyone who ever loved him. I couldn't save him, only myself and my kids.

Jane11

@flavia2 your question about what I want for the future struck me as actually I want all of those things that you questioned. I would love a family, I would love to travel, I do have dreams of turning my creative hobbies (that I stopped and don't seem to have the strength or motivation to pick up anymore) into a small business, I have often thought about volunteer work, and I would like to look into further academic studies in the creative industry to help me make some career decisions.

The problem is I am just stuck in 2 conflicting mind sets constantly about everything now;
1. I should be thankful that I no longer have an abf in my life as I know that I wouldn't have been able to do even simple things like a weekend away with girlfriends as even a few hours away with a friend caused huge drama, I should be thankful that I can focus on things that I want career or business wise without him always seeming to cause a conflict or never being happy for me in anything despite me always having to be happy for him and his achievements BUT
2. I feel like I wanted a future with this man, a family with him, we shared creative talents and spoke about things we could do together in the future and now all of that seemingly won't happen

I want to have the energy and motivation to start living my life again do things that I want to do and now have the freedom to do but I am just consumed by sadness and find it difficult to even get out of bed in a morning and do anything other than sit- is this even normal??

The thing is I could write a list of all the things that I don't miss about the relationship (controlling/manipulating/abuse) so why am I finding it so hard to let go- it just makes no sense. I feel completely lost and lonely without him but recall many occasions when I felt lost and lonely with him and kept telling myself I should walk away.

As I have still been in contact with him I know it's just making it worse because I have so many emotions based on what he says but it's like I can't let it go. He flips from being nice, to absolutely vile and then rambling in only minutes. @ladyscribbler it's exactly as you describe with you ex. It's complete insanity and I don't know any I am doing it to myself but I almost sit and wait for a message to come through from him, knowing that it will either be nice and I will find it hard to believe or it will be horrible and threatening (he has contacted my family with vile personal things and threatens to do this again and again). It's just like every time I feel like we get somewhere we apparently don't but the realisation of cutting this person off forever is not only so sad but also scary.

@ladyscribbler as you said you did, I feel like I have tried to the huge detriment of myself and I guess maybe a lot of the relationship and 'future' was in my head because how could it be reality with someone who couldn't even commit to stopping drinking and his abusive behaviour. It's just so sad because parts of him I know are the perfect man and I felt he understood me better than anyone I have ever known, but on reading I wonder whether this was all a farce and he just manipulated and mirrored me to make me think that was the case. Coming to terms with that makes me ask if he ever really loved me and that in itself is more painful knowing how much I loved him.

Anyway, more ramblings from me, I feel like I just don't seem to be moving forward at all.

NYCDoglvr

I just came across this .........

Psychological abuse can look like:

Humiliating or embarrassing you.
Constant put-downs.
Hypercriticism.
Refusing to communicate.
Ignoring or excluding you.
Extramarital affairs.
Provocative behavior with opposite sex.
Use of sarcasm and unpleasant tone of voice.
Unreasonable jealousy.
Extreme moodiness.
Mean jokes or constantly making fun of you.
Saying “I love you but…”
Saying things like “If you don’t _____, I will_____.”
Domination and control.
Withdrawal of affection.
Guilt trips.
Making everything your fault.
Isolating you from friends and family.
Using money to control.
Constant calling or texting when you are not with him/her.
Threatening to commit suicide if you leave.

It is important to remember is that it is absolutely not your fault. Abusers are expert manipulators with a knack for getting you to believe that the way you are being treated is your fault. These people know that everyone has insecurities, and they use those insecurities against you.

Abusers can convince you that you do not deserve better treatment or that they are treating you this way to “help” you. Some abusers even act quite charming and nice in public so that others have a good impression of them. In private is a different story, which is also quite baffling.

It doesn't matter WHY he is like this, it only matters that he's an abuser. Leave. Go and don't look back.