View on Suicide - selfish or not
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View on Suicide - selfish or not
I didn't write the following, it was someone close to me who has never attempted suicide and little exposure to it.
I just thought it was a very good perspective based on my experience with suicide and long term mental issues.
Your thoughts ??
"... It has come to my attention that a lot of people don't quite grasp the concept of suicide and therefore think it is funny to tell someone to go kill them self. Or call someone who has considered suicide an "attention seeker".
You think suicide is selfish? Well let me explain something to you.
First of all, it takes a lot for someone to even think about suicide. At first, they could be the happiest person you will ever meet. This person could have lots of friends, good grades, a nice family and aims high in life so they can be the best that they can be.
Sometimes the person might never have had a nice family, bullied throughout school, average grades, not many friends and doesn't feel as though they could reach their dreams because they don't see enough in themselves to think they would get anywhere even if they tried.
Whatever sort of person they were, there would have been something that triggered the suicidal thoughts popping up in their head. The trigger varies depending on the person.
If they are the happy type with a seemingly perfect life, then usually the trigger will be a loss of some sort. Maybe a close family member died, which would for the most part would be devastating for anyone. But if they have someone to pull them past the grief and help get their life back on track, then that trigger usually won't occur. However, if they were to lose all their ties with the people around them, and then a have someone close to them leave them, or possibly die; that would be the trigger.
This goes for the lonely type of person as well. Only sometimes it's easier for them to lose control. Again that would depend on the situation. If they were to undergo a traumatic experience and have to deal with it by themselves, that would be the trigger for them. Only it might, just might have a slightly bigger effect due to the fact they felt as though they were lonely in the first place, therefore making it harder to pick themselves up when something bad does happen.
Either way, suicidal thoughts will tend to have more of an effect if the person feels like there is no one to go to during their time of crisis.
And that is when a person will start to go through the mental battle leading up to suicide.
1) They might become depressed and lack motivation. Maybe not eat for a while or spend their time sleeping because of the exhaustion their body feels from dealing with things on their own.
2) depending on the person and situation, one may resort to using drugs, overdosing on prescribed medication just to numb the pain, or sometimes one may self harm.
Self harm again varies depending on the person and what they feel they need. E.g burning, intense and repetitive scratching, cutting, purging (which affects your internal organs) and many other ways of inflicting pain to one's self. This is so a person can distract themselves from the mental suffering they are going through and focus on a more physical type of pain.
3) after experiencing the last two things, that's when the suicidal thoughts become worse. By now, a person who experiences these thoughts will start to gain the intention and willpower to actually go ahead with the idea of ending their life. But before this, they think about who it will affect, the opportunities they will miss in life, and how many people will miss them. Sometimes it could be a lot of people, sometimes no one at all or maybe just a few. The future victim spends days or months stuck in this stage of the fight to stay alive, just trying to hold on for what little they may feel they have in life. They think about others, not themselves.
4) if the previous stage doesn't apply to that person or the suicidal thoughts intensify; that's it.
They no longer think, they just do. It is like their body has a mind of it's own and what appears to be a human being is actually just a shell. They take out a knife, or maybe something to hang them self with. Sometimes they frantically search for any pills that will stop their heart if they took enough. By now it is only adrenaline that compels them towards the act of suicide.
5) they take a deep breath. They think one last time about the things they will leave behind. And right before they take the plunge they say their final goodbye.
And that's where it ends.
No more fear, no more pain, no more depression. Everything; gone. Some might miss them, some may not. Some might even have the guts to ramble on about how much this person meant to them, when they barely even knew them.
So you see, people who commit suicide aren't selfish. They go through so much before they even seriously consider killing themselves.
So next time you say that the suicidal are attention seekers, or they are selfish for even considering the idea; think again.
Because in the end, all they needed was for someone to tell them that they were important. That they were loved, and that it wasn't too late for them to turn their life around.
So don't judge someone for thinking about ending their life, because if you were not willing to help them and be there for them when they needed a friend the most; then you don't have the right to complain about the end result. "
Thanks
I just thought it was a very good perspective based on my experience with suicide and long term mental issues.
Your thoughts ??
"... It has come to my attention that a lot of people don't quite grasp the concept of suicide and therefore think it is funny to tell someone to go kill them self. Or call someone who has considered suicide an "attention seeker".
You think suicide is selfish? Well let me explain something to you.
First of all, it takes a lot for someone to even think about suicide. At first, they could be the happiest person you will ever meet. This person could have lots of friends, good grades, a nice family and aims high in life so they can be the best that they can be.
Sometimes the person might never have had a nice family, bullied throughout school, average grades, not many friends and doesn't feel as though they could reach their dreams because they don't see enough in themselves to think they would get anywhere even if they tried.
Whatever sort of person they were, there would have been something that triggered the suicidal thoughts popping up in their head. The trigger varies depending on the person.
If they are the happy type with a seemingly perfect life, then usually the trigger will be a loss of some sort. Maybe a close family member died, which would for the most part would be devastating for anyone. But if they have someone to pull them past the grief and help get their life back on track, then that trigger usually won't occur. However, if they were to lose all their ties with the people around them, and then a have someone close to them leave them, or possibly die; that would be the trigger.
This goes for the lonely type of person as well. Only sometimes it's easier for them to lose control. Again that would depend on the situation. If they were to undergo a traumatic experience and have to deal with it by themselves, that would be the trigger for them. Only it might, just might have a slightly bigger effect due to the fact they felt as though they were lonely in the first place, therefore making it harder to pick themselves up when something bad does happen.
Either way, suicidal thoughts will tend to have more of an effect if the person feels like there is no one to go to during their time of crisis.
And that is when a person will start to go through the mental battle leading up to suicide.
1) They might become depressed and lack motivation. Maybe not eat for a while or spend their time sleeping because of the exhaustion their body feels from dealing with things on their own.
2) depending on the person and situation, one may resort to using drugs, overdosing on prescribed medication just to numb the pain, or sometimes one may self harm.
Self harm again varies depending on the person and what they feel they need. E.g burning, intense and repetitive scratching, cutting, purging (which affects your internal organs) and many other ways of inflicting pain to one's self. This is so a person can distract themselves from the mental suffering they are going through and focus on a more physical type of pain.
3) after experiencing the last two things, that's when the suicidal thoughts become worse. By now, a person who experiences these thoughts will start to gain the intention and willpower to actually go ahead with the idea of ending their life. But before this, they think about who it will affect, the opportunities they will miss in life, and how many people will miss them. Sometimes it could be a lot of people, sometimes no one at all or maybe just a few. The future victim spends days or months stuck in this stage of the fight to stay alive, just trying to hold on for what little they may feel they have in life. They think about others, not themselves.
4) if the previous stage doesn't apply to that person or the suicidal thoughts intensify; that's it.
They no longer think, they just do. It is like their body has a mind of it's own and what appears to be a human being is actually just a shell. They take out a knife, or maybe something to hang them self with. Sometimes they frantically search for any pills that will stop their heart if they took enough. By now it is only adrenaline that compels them towards the act of suicide.
5) they take a deep breath. They think one last time about the things they will leave behind. And right before they take the plunge they say their final goodbye.
And that's where it ends.
No more fear, no more pain, no more depression. Everything; gone. Some might miss them, some may not. Some might even have the guts to ramble on about how much this person meant to them, when they barely even knew them.
So you see, people who commit suicide aren't selfish. They go through so much before they even seriously consider killing themselves.
So next time you say that the suicidal are attention seekers, or they are selfish for even considering the idea; think again.
Because in the end, all they needed was for someone to tell them that they were important. That they were loved, and that it wasn't too late for them to turn their life around.
So don't judge someone for thinking about ending their life, because if you were not willing to help them and be there for them when they needed a friend the most; then you don't have the right to complain about the end result. "
Thanks
Sober since October
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: In the world in my eyes...Somewhere I've never been before...
Posts: 7,355
Thanks for posting this, PDoc.
A couple of months ago I started here the thread about feeling this way, and did feel like an attention seeker. Still do often...
I am somewhere in between two types - deep burning wounds inside coated with Ok and successful, strong-willpower surface. Quite lonely and keep most of my pain to myself (well, used to keep before I found SR).
When I posted I got stuck somewhere at stage 3 when what really held me from making the final step was thinking about my financial mess, and that I should first get it right, write a willpower, etc., so my death would not bring headache to the person who was supposed to "take it over".
I have no relatives, very few friends, so no big deal..
3) after experiencing the last two things, that's when the suicidal thoughts become worse. By now, a person who experiences these thoughts will start to gain the intention and willpower to actually go ahead with the idea of ending their life. But before this, they think about who it will affect, the opportunities they will miss in life, and how many people will miss them. Sometimes it could be a lot of people, sometimes no one at all or maybe just a few. The future victim spends days or months stuck in this stage of the fight to stay alive, just trying to hold on for what little they may feel they have in life. They think about others, not themselves.
4)
No more fear, no more pain, no more depression. Everything; gone. Some might miss them, some may not.
Exactly. And this thought brought such a relief and soothing feeling to me. That it felt like a breath of fresh air. Like promise of death escape gave me some power to live.
Some might even have the guts to ramble on about how much this person meant to them, when they barely even knew them.
I am still fighting with these thoughts. It seems illogical - if I am not afraid to die, then what else should I be afraid of?
But still. Every damn little thing almost petrifies me. And I die every day...of fear.
A couple of months ago I started here the thread about feeling this way, and did feel like an attention seeker. Still do often...
I am somewhere in between two types - deep burning wounds inside coated with Ok and successful, strong-willpower surface. Quite lonely and keep most of my pain to myself (well, used to keep before I found SR).
When I posted I got stuck somewhere at stage 3 when what really held me from making the final step was thinking about my financial mess, and that I should first get it right, write a willpower, etc., so my death would not bring headache to the person who was supposed to "take it over".
I have no relatives, very few friends, so no big deal..
Originally Posted by pdoc 
3) after experiencing the last two things, that's when the suicidal thoughts become worse. By now, a person who experiences these thoughts will start to gain the intention and willpower to actually go ahead with the idea of ending their life. But before this, they think about who it will affect, the opportunities they will miss in life, and how many people will miss them. Sometimes it could be a lot of people, sometimes no one at all or maybe just a few. The future victim spends days or months stuck in this stage of the fight to stay alive, just trying to hold on for what little they may feel they have in life. They think about others, not themselves.
4)
No more fear, no more pain, no more depression. Everything; gone. Some might miss them, some may not.
Exactly. And this thought brought such a relief and soothing feeling to me. That it felt like a breath of fresh air. Like promise of death escape gave me some power to live.
Some might even have the guts to ramble on about how much this person meant to them, when they barely even knew them.
But still. Every damn little thing almost petrifies me. And I die every day...of fear.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 10,912
Hi Pdoc, there were two threads that investigated the topic quite deeply.
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...t-suicide.html
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...-suicidal.html
I think there can be many different "motivations" behind suicidal ideations, impulses, and attempts. Usually the most general state of mind that is associated with it is depression, which can have a great variety of underlying causes, including alcohol / drug abuse, unresolved personal issues, crises, illnesses, losses, etc etc.
I find myself responding to these kinds of posts/threads because I've had a long history of suicidal ideations myself. No attempts, but if I wanted to describe the many similar times, thoughts, mental states when I played around with these ideas, I would sit here typing this post for two days... Eventually, I figured out the pattern behind these tendencies in myself. It was almost never a response to devastating real life events or crises for me. I actually tend to deal with those very well in constructive ways. Not impulses either, more something somehow always present in the back of my mind.
I figured out my pattern and "issue" most intensely reading some works of philosophy and literature in my youth, when I recognized how strongly I relate to certain thinking styles and feelings about life. Basically, these were individuals that are most often categorized under some form of "existentialist" movement or thought. I realized that I am very prone to the same - what they call "existential angst" and related states, mindsets, doubts, constant questioning everything, and all this periodically leads to despair very often regardless of my external circumstances and life situation or only partially associated with that. I have a tendency wanting to understand and interpret everything, look for meaning in everything, to points when sometimes it gets really convoluted and detached from "reality". In other words, my mind can drive itself crazy.
Like for many others who are prone to the same thing, some of the root of all this is deep seated anxiety and fear of mortality. And as a reaction, I often tend to be drawn to and want to investigate what terrifies me the most...
I also accepted that I will probably always be this way (have been since a young kid) and does not have to be a problem to have such an inquisitive mind, because it's entirely my choice how I project it. Just like I can infuse facts with isolation, darkness and self destructiveness for myself - I can also turn it around and take all this as a life long creative journey of trying to live a life full of learning, meaningful activities, and connection.
Of course it's only possible to live the truly "bright side" of it with a clear and sober mind. And it's a lot of work.
I think that suicidal thoughts are not something to be taken lightly. Whether it's selfish... well it is of course, a personal choice that's most often not the product of a healthy mind, but not every single case, in my opinion.
If you are interested in something that's quite investigative about the dimensions of the question that are not necessarily related to momentary (or temporary) despair and weakness, I recommend the documentary called "Terry Pratchett: Choosing to Die". A beautiful film in my opinion and very moving.
(I knew that MidnightBlue would be one of the first responders here
)
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...t-suicide.html
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...-suicidal.html
I think there can be many different "motivations" behind suicidal ideations, impulses, and attempts. Usually the most general state of mind that is associated with it is depression, which can have a great variety of underlying causes, including alcohol / drug abuse, unresolved personal issues, crises, illnesses, losses, etc etc.
I find myself responding to these kinds of posts/threads because I've had a long history of suicidal ideations myself. No attempts, but if I wanted to describe the many similar times, thoughts, mental states when I played around with these ideas, I would sit here typing this post for two days... Eventually, I figured out the pattern behind these tendencies in myself. It was almost never a response to devastating real life events or crises for me. I actually tend to deal with those very well in constructive ways. Not impulses either, more something somehow always present in the back of my mind.
I figured out my pattern and "issue" most intensely reading some works of philosophy and literature in my youth, when I recognized how strongly I relate to certain thinking styles and feelings about life. Basically, these were individuals that are most often categorized under some form of "existentialist" movement or thought. I realized that I am very prone to the same - what they call "existential angst" and related states, mindsets, doubts, constant questioning everything, and all this periodically leads to despair very often regardless of my external circumstances and life situation or only partially associated with that. I have a tendency wanting to understand and interpret everything, look for meaning in everything, to points when sometimes it gets really convoluted and detached from "reality". In other words, my mind can drive itself crazy.
Like for many others who are prone to the same thing, some of the root of all this is deep seated anxiety and fear of mortality. And as a reaction, I often tend to be drawn to and want to investigate what terrifies me the most...
I also accepted that I will probably always be this way (have been since a young kid) and does not have to be a problem to have such an inquisitive mind, because it's entirely my choice how I project it. Just like I can infuse facts with isolation, darkness and self destructiveness for myself - I can also turn it around and take all this as a life long creative journey of trying to live a life full of learning, meaningful activities, and connection.
Of course it's only possible to live the truly "bright side" of it with a clear and sober mind. And it's a lot of work.
I think that suicidal thoughts are not something to be taken lightly. Whether it's selfish... well it is of course, a personal choice that's most often not the product of a healthy mind, but not every single case, in my opinion.
If you are interested in something that's quite investigative about the dimensions of the question that are not necessarily related to momentary (or temporary) despair and weakness, I recommend the documentary called "Terry Pratchett: Choosing to Die". A beautiful film in my opinion and very moving.
(I knew that MidnightBlue would be one of the first responders here
)
Adventures In SpaceTime
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Posts: 5,827
Originally Posted by pdoc
Because in the end, all they needed was for someone to tell them that they were important. That they were loved, and that it wasn't too late for them to turn their life around.
So don't judge someone for thinking about ending their life, because if you were not willing to help them and be there for them when they needed a friend the most; then you don't have the right to complain about the end result. "
I think the living feel more comfortable with themselves when they can explain away suicides with the premise that if the suicide had love in their hearts, all would have been different.
Why isn't love enough?
For the simple reason that everybody dies eventually anyways, and so when you get deep down into the psyche of a potential suicide, this fact is not misunderstood. Love doesn't stop death is the lesson learned... it comes down to a relative sense of time... and the worth of the life lived or lost either way. The worth of life is in the balance, and if found seriously wanting, then living under those circumstances year after year until certain death by old age or whatever becomes horrific in experience for the potential suicide. For them, all the love in the world hasn't stopped the pain of living.
I knew I was loved. And I loved others. This was not enough to stop my suicidal ideations. I still attempted suicide anyways. I didn't want to live, and love had nothing to do with any of that. All that business of not wanting to live was all on me, and me alone...
I'm not saying love isn't essentially required in the prevention of suicides - I'm saying love itself isn't enough to absolutely prevent suicides.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Western Washington
Posts: 202
Originally Posted by pdoc
"... It has come to my attention that a lot of people don't quite grasp the concept of suicide and therefore think it is funny to tell someone to go kill them self. Or call someone who has considered suicide an "attention seeker".
Fundamentally, I do think suicide is selfish--especially when there are children or other loved ones left behind to pick up the pieces. But I also think it's basic human nature to become increasingly selfish the more distressed / in need we are. Take away my food for a week or two and the kind, helpful woman will be steadily replaced by an animal who can think of nothing but how to get fed--and I will most likely hurt you if you get between me and a meal. As a society, we should not let people starve like that--for their own well being, but also because of how dangerous they become. The same for emotional deprivation--it's an extreme state that puts oneself and others at risk.
Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 13,560
I can only think of this in my own perspective. As a mother. I know that what it would do to my children is beyond horrible. I love them more than me, now and always. I would never do things to hurt them, and I know this would be the ultimate hurt.
My mind does not work in this way, so it is very hard for me to understand suicidal thinking, I admit that. I also agree w/what KitKat said, if someone is so desperate to seed attention that they are threatening suicide, they need that attention, that love. Every single life is worth living. However, sometimes those we care about, or even those we don't know that well, need reminding of that.
Be kind, you never know what someone is going through on the inside.
My mind does not work in this way, so it is very hard for me to understand suicidal thinking, I admit that. I also agree w/what KitKat said, if someone is so desperate to seed attention that they are threatening suicide, they need that attention, that love. Every single life is worth living. However, sometimes those we care about, or even those we don't know that well, need reminding of that.
Be kind, you never know what someone is going through on the inside.
Administrator
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 211,445
Hi Hassan
I'm disabled so I identify a little with discrimination of another kind.
I think we do more good being here than not...I really believe a good life, and a life doing good, can help change peoples minds
D
I'm disabled so I identify a little with discrimination of another kind.
I think we do more good being here than not...I really believe a good life, and a life doing good, can help change peoples minds
D
Life the gift of recovery!
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Home is where the heart is
Posts: 7,061
Originally Posted by RobbyRobot
In my opinion, I don't agree that all that was needed was for someone to tell them they were important, that they were loved, that it wasn't too late for them to turn their life around. If suicides were realistically that easy to prevent, suicides would be rare indeed. The sad truth is that giving love and receiving love is not enough, on its own, to prevent suicide. More is required is my experience anyways.
I think the living feel more comfortable with themselves when they can explain away suicides with the premise that if the suicide had love in their hearts, all would have been different.
Why isn't love enough?
For the simple reason that everybody dies eventually anyways, and so when you get deep down into the psyche of a potential suicide, this fact is not misunderstood. Love doesn't stop death is the lesson learned... it comes down to a relative sense of time... and the worth of the life lived or lost either way. The worth of life is in the balance, and if found seriously wanting, then living under those circumstances year after year until certain death by old age or whatever becomes horrific in experience for the potential suicide. For them, all the love in the world hasn't stopped the pain of living.
I knew I was loved. And I loved others. This was not enough to stop my suicidal ideations. I still attempted suicide anyways. I didn't want to live, and love had nothing to do with any of that. All that business of not wanting to live was all on me, and me alone...
I'm not saying love isn't essentially required in the prevention of suicides - I'm saying love itself isn't enough to absolutely prevent suicides.
I think the living feel more comfortable with themselves when they can explain away suicides with the premise that if the suicide had love in their hearts, all would have been different.
Why isn't love enough?
For the simple reason that everybody dies eventually anyways, and so when you get deep down into the psyche of a potential suicide, this fact is not misunderstood. Love doesn't stop death is the lesson learned... it comes down to a relative sense of time... and the worth of the life lived or lost either way. The worth of life is in the balance, and if found seriously wanting, then living under those circumstances year after year until certain death by old age or whatever becomes horrific in experience for the potential suicide. For them, all the love in the world hasn't stopped the pain of living.
I knew I was loved. And I loved others. This was not enough to stop my suicidal ideations. I still attempted suicide anyways. I didn't want to live, and love had nothing to do with any of that. All that business of not wanting to live was all on me, and me alone...
I'm not saying love isn't essentially required in the prevention of suicides - I'm saying love itself isn't enough to absolutely prevent suicides.
All of the things around me were good in my life. I have people that I know and knew then loved me dearly. I have a nice home, a nice car, two dogs that adore me, I live in a nice area, ect... All of the outside was great and I was and am very grateful for it. The problem was not the outside it was that I was in so much emotional pain I felt I could no longer go on living. I fight with PTSD, traumatic brain injury (which went undiagnosed for many years), depression, anxiety, and agoraphobia. During that period of time the flashbacks were happening on a regular basis, I hated to go to sleep because I knew that at the very least I would have nightmares and at the worst I would be torn from my sleep with night terrors. I went for days at a time without sleep because I would force myself to stay awake because I was so afraid of the nightmares and night terrors. My anxiety was so high that I was barely able to leave my home and even then only when my partner went with me. I was so on edge that I jumped at the slightest sound or movement. I was irritable and would have angry outbursts yet had no energy. It hurt just to breath as it felt like it took too much energy. I could barely think straight and all I knew is that I wanted the pain to stop. I truly did not know how much longer I could take it as the depression at that point had lasted for more than 6 months. My doctors did not know what to do with me. As a last resort one even strongly suggested shock therapy to try and treat the depression. Thankfully, I refused this after doing some research on it and listening to my partners concerns because this has not been shown to be effective for PTSD type depression in fact it can be harmful.
I am sure some would consider my planning suicide as a selfish act and in some ways it was. I just needed the pain to go away and saw no other way for it to go away except suicide. I had lost hope and was struggling just to survive. I felt it was selfish of others to expect me to go on living in that hell with no hope of getting out. In this society we put our animals to sleep when they are sick or hurt enough that there is no hope for them so why is it so wrong for a person to be provided the same dignity? That is more of a philosophical question. I was literally living in a black pit of despair that no amount of love was going to pull me from. What finally pulled me from that ledge was a medication change. At the time they were only treating my depression and not the PTSD or the TBI. They changed my medications and had me start seeing a therapist who specializes in PTSD and TBI's. When they adjusted my medications and started treating the symptoms of the PTSD the lights came back on and the darkness started clearing. Thankfully, although I have had some depression since then it has not been anywhere near that black pit and it has not lasted long.
I am thankful I survived but I can say that if I had been forced to continue to live in that pain I would not be here today.
p***enger
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: NYC
Posts: 19,044
I don't think suicide is a particularly selfish act for most people who commit it or attempt. Maybe for some -- there are "revenge" suicides which may be done for self-seeking reasons.
For others, the obsession to end one's life involves an increasing lack of attachment to the self or to other people's selves. One acknowledges kind of dimly the reality that other people participate in, but it doesn't seem to reach you. The range of perception goes from tolerably barren to painful. Because the self has no value, anyone else's apparent regard for the self is doubtful. Either delusional, transient, or pathetic. No matter.
It can be seen as an odd literally self-less place to be. I can't contemplate it anymore.
For others, the obsession to end one's life involves an increasing lack of attachment to the self or to other people's selves. One acknowledges kind of dimly the reality that other people participate in, but it doesn't seem to reach you. The range of perception goes from tolerably barren to painful. Because the self has no value, anyone else's apparent regard for the self is doubtful. Either delusional, transient, or pathetic. No matter.
It can be seen as an odd literally self-less place to be. I can't contemplate it anymore.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Central Massachusetts
Posts: 2,051
It's sad, violent and usually senseless. But it happens. My mother attempted it a few years back on account of a negative reaction to Ativan and relationship issues with my father. Even a failed attempt can tear a family asunder. I pray I'm never touched by it again even remotely.
Member
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 49
Pay attention
Originally Posted by Johnston
It's sad, violent and usually senseless. But it happens. My mother attempted it a few years back on account of a negative reaction to Ativan and relationship issues with my father. Even a failed attempt can tear a family asunder. I pray I'm never touched by it again even remotely.
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