Authenticity
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Join Date: May 2012
Location: canada
Posts: 7,245
What of this thing called acceptance, is it something we can cultivate or is it hardwired into some and not others. I know I lack that quality.
oh, that's too easy, BTSO; you can't get away with this cop-out!
acceptance isn't like an innate quality you either have or don't; it takes first of all a decision that it's a worthwhile direction in a situation, and yeah, then it takes practice and cultivation.
and it's not the same as 'tolerance' or 'having to live with'.
i find it difficult, mostly. it gets easier with practice, and can be downright freeingly joyous.
oh, that's too easy, BTSO; you can't get away with this cop-out!
acceptance isn't like an innate quality you either have or don't; it takes first of all a decision that it's a worthwhile direction in a situation, and yeah, then it takes practice and cultivation.
and it's not the same as 'tolerance' or 'having to live with'.
i find it difficult, mostly. it gets easier with practice, and can be downright freeingly joyous.
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Join Date: May 2012
Location: canada
Posts: 7,245
Rob,
about ten years ago i was trying to be in a relationship and things kept going disastrously wrong. what i mean is: i reacted repeatedly and drastically from a 13-year-old 'me' to my father when reality was a 49-year-old 'me' with a person i hadn't known very long and was very attracted to.
i knew in my head that my reactions were off, but they were "real" none-the-less. (is that what you mean by your authentic feelings?). real and present. but they weren't reactions to what was actually in the present but to something looooong in the past. i knew they were inappropriate, but couldn't control them. they just kept coming. sometimes it seemed they were from a newborn, and that was even worse, since i can't remember being a newborn and couldn't make sense of any of it.
through reading here and there, i finally came across a book called 'Making sense of Suffering' by Konrad Stettbacher. helped me tremendously. he speaks of primal injury, and how it sets up defenses. defenses which continue to be automatically triggered by alarm bells when something's 'wrong', and bring with them a high alert dangerdangerdanger response that is to the original injury, still now.
of course then he goes into some therapeutic stuff i don't remember or maybe didn't even finish reading, and then he did get discredited by other therapists, but none of that mattered to me because what helped me so much was to read about the understandable-ness, the expectedness of returning to the decades-ago place and really being THERE. even though we're not
so yes, there's much there about authenticity.
that those feelings are real in the moment is not in doubt. but they don't lie or tell the truth. i liked what courage2 said, about not thinking they are facts though they're real.
about ten years ago i was trying to be in a relationship and things kept going disastrously wrong. what i mean is: i reacted repeatedly and drastically from a 13-year-old 'me' to my father when reality was a 49-year-old 'me' with a person i hadn't known very long and was very attracted to.
i knew in my head that my reactions were off, but they were "real" none-the-less. (is that what you mean by your authentic feelings?). real and present. but they weren't reactions to what was actually in the present but to something looooong in the past. i knew they were inappropriate, but couldn't control them. they just kept coming. sometimes it seemed they were from a newborn, and that was even worse, since i can't remember being a newborn and couldn't make sense of any of it.
through reading here and there, i finally came across a book called 'Making sense of Suffering' by Konrad Stettbacher. helped me tremendously. he speaks of primal injury, and how it sets up defenses. defenses which continue to be automatically triggered by alarm bells when something's 'wrong', and bring with them a high alert dangerdangerdanger response that is to the original injury, still now.
of course then he goes into some therapeutic stuff i don't remember or maybe didn't even finish reading, and then he did get discredited by other therapists, but none of that mattered to me because what helped me so much was to read about the understandable-ness, the expectedness of returning to the decades-ago place and really being THERE. even though we're not
so yes, there's much there about authenticity.
that those feelings are real in the moment is not in doubt. but they don't lie or tell the truth. i liked what courage2 said, about not thinking they are facts though they're real.
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Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Bethlehem, PA.
Posts: 1,781
Originally Posted by fini 
What of this thing called acceptance, is it something we can cultivate or is it hardwired into some and not others. I know I lack that quality.
oh, that's too easy, BTSO; you can't get away with this cop-out!
acceptance isn't like an innate quality you either have or don't; it takes first of all a decision that it's a worthwhile direction in a situation, and yeah, then it takes practice and cultivation.
and it's not the same as 'tolerance' or 'having to live with'.
i find it difficult, mostly. it gets easier with practice, and can be downright freeingly joyous.
oh, that's too easy, BTSO; you can't get away with this cop-out!
acceptance isn't like an innate quality you either have or don't; it takes first of all a decision that it's a worthwhile direction in a situation, and yeah, then it takes practice and cultivation.
and it's not the same as 'tolerance' or 'having to live with'.
i find it difficult, mostly. it gets easier with practice, and can be downright freeingly joyous.
I think its one of those things that's much easier said than done. You can recite the serenity prayer but to actually put all of those things into practice is another story. I once heard a Buddhist teacher say that many of mans problems are due to his inability to accept that what is, is. That sounds overly simplistic but in a way there is a lot of truth to it. There's also an innate question that acceptance raises, I would ask how one determines when to accept something and give up on trying to change it?
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Self-acceptance
This is a series of audios/videos on the topic, each discusses a particular area. They can also be downloaded. All free, we just need to sign in with a name and an email address.
The Self-Acceptance Project
The Self-Acceptance Project
EndGame
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 4,677
Originally Posted by BackToSquareOne
I once heard a Buddhist teacher say that many of mans problems are due to his inability to accept that what is, is. That sounds overly simplistic but in a way there is a lot of truth to it.
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The Serenity Prayer talks about "The Wisdom To Know The Difference", between things we can and can not change. This has always been a tough one for me, I have given many things my best shot and still failed. In a way though you learn from failure even though you would have been better off putting your efforts to better use. On the other hand you don't know if you don't try, in a way I guess such wisdom comes from experience and that includes failure. Where an I going with this, I have no idea.
Adventures In SpaceTime
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Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Posts: 5,827
I'm of a mind some experiences are not easily given to being typed out on a keyboard. Not easily even given voice while f2f for that matter either. It goes without saying we all have our personal share of such experiences. Often enough how we share is as important, or even more important, as what we share. Context is everything. Backstories are essential. Authenticity is the currency which creates an abundant wealth of commonality between the speaker and the listener.
Words fail me all too often. Not because I don't have them, but more because I can't bring myself to the detail required. I need to finely brush paint onto the canvas, and yet I just want to throw it on like a whirlwind of splash and crash and be done with it.
Words fail me all too often. Not because I don't have them, but more because I can't bring myself to the detail required. I need to finely brush paint onto the canvas, and yet I just want to throw it on like a whirlwind of splash and crash and be done with it.
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Originally Posted by BackToSquareOne
I think its one of those things that's much easier said than done. You can recite the serenity prayer but to actually put all of those things into practice is another story. I once heard a Buddhist teacher say that many of mans problems are due to his inability to accept that what is, is. That sounds overly simplistic but in a way there is a lot of truth to it. There's also an innate question that acceptance raises, I would ask how one determines when to accept something and give up on trying to change it?
and i am often in/with the dilemma of when to stop trying to change it. sometimes it's obvious that i can't, and even in those circumstances something can be difficult to accept. accept ...uh...accepting here meaning with equanimity, not grudgingly acknowledging that something's for real.
there's a poem by Rumi that speaks to this, on an angle:
THE GUEST HOUSE
This being human is a guest house.
Every morning a new arrival.
A joy, a depression, a meanness,
some momentary awareness comes
as an unexpected visitor.
Welcome and entertain them all!
Even if they’re a crowd of sorrows,
who violently sweep your house
empty of its furniture,
still, treat each guest honorably.
He may be clearing you out
for some new delight.
The dark thought, the shame, the malice,
meet them at the door laughing,
and invite them in.
Be grateful for whatever comes,
because each has been sent
as a guide from beyond.
don't know about the 'sent as a guide from beyond', but am thinking that looking at is as 'sent as a guide from within' will work, too.
EndGame
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: New York, NY
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Originally Posted by RobbyRobot
I'm of a mind some experiences are not easily given to being typed out on a keyboard. Not easily even given voice while f2f for that matter either. It goes without saying we all have our personal share of such experiences. Often enough how we share is as important, or even more important, as what we share. Context is everything. Backstories are essential. Authenticity is the currency which creates an abundant wealth of commonality between the speaker and the listener.
Words fail me all too often. Not because I don't have them, but more because I can't bring myself to the detail required. I need to finely brush paint onto the canvas, and yet I just want to throw it on like a whirlwind of splash and crash and be done with it.
Words fail me all too often. Not because I don't have them, but more because I can't bring myself to the detail required. I need to finely brush paint onto the canvas, and yet I just want to throw it on like a whirlwind of splash and crash and be done with it.
You've been verbalizing several difficult thoughts and feelings since you started this thread, Robby, and, I imagine, you've been processing many of the textual responses that you've gotten.
Words typically fail us, and often work against us, when we're under attack by our own feelings. That's why we have tears.
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When I was going through periods of great emotional crisis or depression I would ask myself what advice I would give if I were the doctor instead of the patient. Everything I could come up with was of little value because it couldn't begin to penetrate the depths of despair I was feeling at the time. Talking to others about it didn't yield any answers either but it did provide a degree of comfort. I found that some things don't have any easy answers but the human interaction makes us feel less alone in our suffering. Perhaps there are times when our own tears and the support of others is the best we can do to weather the storm.
pray for strength
Join Date: Apr 2014
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Hi Robby and friends,
Throughout today I have been mulling all the great perspectives brought forth on this Thread. Robby, I am hoping that you are feeling a sense of connection and community, sanctuary. Thanks again for sharing your thought provoking journey.
One of the greatest means I have of feeling connected and part of the human condition is through reading histories and the various perspectives on historical events and experiences. Dylan Thomas, Do not go gentle into that good night, ran through my head while out and about today and now I would like to post (it helps me cry as needed):
Do not go gentle into that good night,
Old age should burn and rave at close of day;
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
Though wise men at their end know dark is right,
Because their words had forked no lightning they
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Good men, the last wave by, crying how bright
Their frail deeds might have danced in a green bay,
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
Wild men who caught and sang the sun in flight,
And learn, too late, they grieved it on its way,
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Grave men, near death, who see with blinding sight
Blind eyes could blaze like meteors and be gay,
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
And you, my father, there on the sad height,
Curse, bless, me now with your fierce tears, I pray.
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
Throughout today I have been mulling all the great perspectives brought forth on this Thread. Robby, I am hoping that you are feeling a sense of connection and community, sanctuary. Thanks again for sharing your thought provoking journey.
One of the greatest means I have of feeling connected and part of the human condition is through reading histories and the various perspectives on historical events and experiences. Dylan Thomas, Do not go gentle into that good night, ran through my head while out and about today and now I would like to post (it helps me cry as needed):
Do not go gentle into that good night,
Old age should burn and rave at close of day;
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
Though wise men at their end know dark is right,
Because their words had forked no lightning they
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Good men, the last wave by, crying how bright
Their frail deeds might have danced in a green bay,
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
Wild men who caught and sang the sun in flight,
And learn, too late, they grieved it on its way,
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Grave men, near death, who see with blinding sight
Blind eyes could blaze like meteors and be gay,
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
And you, my father, there on the sad height,
Curse, bless, me now with your fierce tears, I pray.
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
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Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 211,758
Even tho Thomas was a chronic alcoholic (or maybe because of it) I have always identified with that poem
I haven't contributed anything today - yesterday was a good day - today is a swings and roundabouts kinda deal...but it's all good
I'm still rooting for you tho Robby
D
I haven't contributed anything today - yesterday was a good day - today is a swings and roundabouts kinda deal...but it's all good
I'm still rooting for you tho Robby
D
Adventures In SpaceTime
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Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Posts: 5,827
Good morning Friends. Road trip as we this morning drive back to Ottawa takes like 8hrs. Love to drive so its all good. We miss our cats, Lucy and Dave. And our more familiar settings. Ottawa is home.
With the authenticity of feelings I want to add when I was drunk, I often could not know if my feelings were "real" to me or not. Sorry I didn't offer this early on in the discussion but I wasn't much thinking about active alcoholism directly in this thread until today. Being sober most of my life now, 33 adult years out of 57 lifetime, alcoholism really isn't on my main plate anymore. More like a side order. Short of a dessert though, lol. Still on my table nonetheless, not to be forgotten. I'll always be a recovered alcoholic drug addict.
I loved alcohol because I could get drunk meaning I drank for effect. It really messed me up. I could become a free agent, a superstar in my own right internally. Externally, not so much, of course. The being messed up thing was important because the feelings matched my new physical reality. This gave me a new kind of control I didn't have otherwise prior to drinking. Before alcohol I was an achiever. I accomplished things. I gave of myself. I enjoyed life. That surgery in 1969 stopped me dead. Not just because it failed in a health sense but also because the Robby that was before 1969 wasn't real thereafter. Well, I was, bit in a state of misery. I couldn't for the life of me solve this new health challenge at hand. I'm not easily defeated, and yet this attitude just drove me straight into the abyss seeking out the root of my problems. Alcohol provided me with a diving suit of sorts. I could go places inside me that otherwise I would not have ventured. Its not that I wasn't fearful with alcohol. Its more like I didn't care of the consequences my fears were screaming out to me to be wary and realistic. I much preferred the surreal. Alcohol was my rocket fuel.
I believe early life for me felt bad, you know? All that hospital scene, dysfunctional parents, poverty, and early street lifestyle dragged on me. I believe I learned how to shut things down internally while still a youngster. I can remember I've always been able to observe myself observing myself, you know? Some of the surgeries required bed rest in plaster casts for many months at a time. I missed two grades in primary school. They provided a home school teacher. This all back in the '60's. You can imagine how well that worked. High school same thing minus the home classes. Alcoholism by then now too. Drop out. Three programs in college and the same deal. More surgeries. More drop out. Learning itself became more of skill and pursuit for me than did the subject matter. And still is to this very day no different am I. I love to learn, and yet I'm not now easily disciplined to any major school of thought or practice. A pity I suppose, but there's nothing for it as a remedy. My health challenges and my alcoholism destroyed each opportunity to complete a formal education. It could be said in the trying I learned firsthand just how much I didn't know about what there was to know before I tried. In this I find comfort. I like to read and write. I'm on track to being an author. This is fitting for me. I have much to say.
So yeah, while drunk I really had no baseline for my feelings and wouldn't know truth from lies. I can go with this understanding. I think I'm unskilled in changing my feelings because I learned one thing really well and that is to push down my feelings until I can't push anymore. Deep-six them one and all. Not so much a skill. How hard is it to push? There is something here about control which is nagging at me. I think I control the stream of my feelings overall. I think I have learned to generalize myself. This would be helpful when I want to shut myself off. I didn't want to be that new kid after 1969. Shutting down became the thing to do. How surreal even with sobriety I'm learning to either once again shutdown or this time learn differently. Learn something I have never well learned. How to be the whole of me. Unfragmented me. A real boy. A real man. A real person.
Hey guys and gals. Thanks for being here. I'm okay. I'm just hurting. I'm undone once again, but I'm not yet done, you know?
Road trip as we this morning drive back to Ottawa takes like 8hrs. Love to drive so its all good. We miss our cats, Lucy and Dave. And our more familiar settings. Ottawa is home.With the authenticity of feelings I want to add when I was drunk, I often could not know if my feelings were "real" to me or not. Sorry I didn't offer this early on in the discussion but I wasn't much thinking about active alcoholism directly in this thread until today. Being sober most of my life now, 33 adult years out of 57 lifetime, alcoholism really isn't on my main plate anymore. More like a side order. Short of a dessert though, lol. Still on my table nonetheless, not to be forgotten. I'll always be a recovered alcoholic drug addict.
I loved alcohol because I could get drunk meaning I drank for effect. It really messed me up. I could become a free agent, a superstar in my own right internally. Externally, not so much, of course. The being messed up thing was important because the feelings matched my new physical reality. This gave me a new kind of control I didn't have otherwise prior to drinking. Before alcohol I was an achiever. I accomplished things. I gave of myself. I enjoyed life. That surgery in 1969 stopped me dead. Not just because it failed in a health sense but also because the Robby that was before 1969 wasn't real thereafter. Well, I was, bit in a state of misery. I couldn't for the life of me solve this new health challenge at hand. I'm not easily defeated, and yet this attitude just drove me straight into the abyss seeking out the root of my problems. Alcohol provided me with a diving suit of sorts. I could go places inside me that otherwise I would not have ventured. Its not that I wasn't fearful with alcohol. Its more like I didn't care of the consequences my fears were screaming out to me to be wary and realistic. I much preferred the surreal. Alcohol was my rocket fuel.
I believe early life for me felt bad, you know? All that hospital scene, dysfunctional parents, poverty, and early street lifestyle dragged on me. I believe I learned how to shut things down internally while still a youngster. I can remember I've always been able to observe myself observing myself, you know? Some of the surgeries required bed rest in plaster casts for many months at a time. I missed two grades in primary school. They provided a home school teacher. This all back in the '60's. You can imagine how well that worked. High school same thing minus the home classes. Alcoholism by then now too. Drop out. Three programs in college and the same deal. More surgeries. More drop out. Learning itself became more of skill and pursuit for me than did the subject matter. And still is to this very day no different am I. I love to learn, and yet I'm not now easily disciplined to any major school of thought or practice. A pity I suppose, but there's nothing for it as a remedy. My health challenges and my alcoholism destroyed each opportunity to complete a formal education. It could be said in the trying I learned firsthand just how much I didn't know about what there was to know before I tried. In this I find comfort. I like to read and write. I'm on track to being an author. This is fitting for me. I have much to say.
So yeah, while drunk I really had no baseline for my feelings and wouldn't know truth from lies. I can go with this understanding. I think I'm unskilled in changing my feelings because I learned one thing really well and that is to push down my feelings until I can't push anymore. Deep-six them one and all. Not so much a skill. How hard is it to push? There is something here about control which is nagging at me. I think I control the stream of my feelings overall. I think I have learned to generalize myself. This would be helpful when I want to shut myself off. I didn't want to be that new kid after 1969. Shutting down became the thing to do. How surreal even with sobriety I'm learning to either once again shutdown or this time learn differently. Learn something I have never well learned. How to be the whole of me. Unfragmented me. A real boy. A real man. A real person.
Hey guys and gals. Thanks for being here. I'm okay. I'm just hurting. I'm undone once again, but I'm not yet done, you know?
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Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 3,359
What you define as hurting may actually be growth and the unease that comes with such. From my perspective it seems you are dealing with the meshing of personalities into a new identity. The feelings you observe may be from the angst associated with this change in identity. Perhaps I am off but you have successfully done this in the past several times and I am sure you will do so once again:
Lost child finds success in athletics and takes on this identity – become the best at your sport/s
Surgery changes this identity and alcoholism/addiction fills that void – become the best at addiction
Recovery and self identity as an addict/alcoholic helping others – become the best at recovery
Surgery yet again disrupts your identity and you’re now searching for your new identity causing angst
I relate in many ways to your plight. Different backgrounds, different stories, shared affliction and a common friendship – in your words, awesome. I might throw in the chemical element of what you are likely experiencing in your brain that could be having a major effect on your transition and feelings/emotions too. I hope you take me up on my suggestions.
I have no doubt you are going to find your way Rob. Safe travels!
Lost child finds success in athletics and takes on this identity – become the best at your sport/s
Surgery changes this identity and alcoholism/addiction fills that void – become the best at addiction
Recovery and self identity as an addict/alcoholic helping others – become the best at recovery
Surgery yet again disrupts your identity and you’re now searching for your new identity causing angst
I relate in many ways to your plight. Different backgrounds, different stories, shared affliction and a common friendship – in your words, awesome. I might throw in the chemical element of what you are likely experiencing in your brain that could be having a major effect on your transition and feelings/emotions too. I hope you take me up on my suggestions.
I have no doubt you are going to find your way Rob. Safe travels!
Member
Join Date: May 2012
Location: canada
Posts: 7,245
How hard is it to push? There is something here about control which is nagging at me.
....is it a fear of utter chaos if the control isn't applied?
"where the wild things are" just popped into my mind while reading this.
....is it a fear of utter chaos if the control isn't applied?
"where the wild things are" just popped into my mind while reading this.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 10,912
Dear Robby,
Words... I often have similar problems with words, and sometimes almost every form of expression, when it comes to authentically sharing what I feel. I think most of us do, some more intensely and more often than others.
Right now, yet again, there is so much that even just the very last post of yours evokes in me, but pouring it out? Not easy, to say the least. It'll come, though.
I like the "art therapy" thing (and art in general)..., because it allows us to communicate when we feel that we cannot communicate. You know?
The Dylan Thomas poem LeTheVerte posted reminded me of another piece of work by him, And Death Shall Have No Dominion, which expresses a bit what's in my mind right now...
"And death shall have no dominion.
Dead men naked they shall be one
With the man in the wind and the west moon;
When their bones are picked clean and the clean bones gone,
They shall have stars at elbow and foot;
Though they go mad they shall be sane,
Though they sink through the sea they shall rise again;
Though lovers be lost love shall not;
And death shall have no dominion.
And death shall have no dominion.
Under the windings of the sea
They lying long shall not die windily;
Twisting on racks when sinews give way,
Strapped to a wheel, yet they shall not break;
Faith in their hands shall snap in two,
And the unicorn evils run them through;
Split all ends up they shan’t crack;
And death shall have no dominion.
And death shall have no dominion.
No more may gulls cry at their ears
Or waves break loud on the seashores;
Where blew a flower may a flower no more
Lift its head to the blows of the rain;
Though they be mad and dead as nails,
Heads of the characters hammer through daisies;
Break in the sun till the sun breaks down,
And death shall have no dominion."
You are NOT unskilled at changing your feelings.
Hope you had a safe drive. Enjoy home
Words... I often have similar problems with words, and sometimes almost every form of expression, when it comes to authentically sharing what I feel. I think most of us do, some more intensely and more often than others.
Right now, yet again, there is so much that even just the very last post of yours evokes in me, but pouring it out? Not easy, to say the least. It'll come, though.
I like the "art therapy" thing (and art in general)..., because it allows us to communicate when we feel that we cannot communicate. You know?
The Dylan Thomas poem LeTheVerte posted reminded me of another piece of work by him, And Death Shall Have No Dominion, which expresses a bit what's in my mind right now...
"And death shall have no dominion.
Dead men naked they shall be one
With the man in the wind and the west moon;
When their bones are picked clean and the clean bones gone,
They shall have stars at elbow and foot;
Though they go mad they shall be sane,
Though they sink through the sea they shall rise again;
Though lovers be lost love shall not;
And death shall have no dominion.
And death shall have no dominion.
Under the windings of the sea
They lying long shall not die windily;
Twisting on racks when sinews give way,
Strapped to a wheel, yet they shall not break;
Faith in their hands shall snap in two,
And the unicorn evils run them through;
Split all ends up they shan’t crack;
And death shall have no dominion.
And death shall have no dominion.
No more may gulls cry at their ears
Or waves break loud on the seashores;
Where blew a flower may a flower no more
Lift its head to the blows of the rain;
Though they be mad and dead as nails,
Heads of the characters hammer through daisies;
Break in the sun till the sun breaks down,
And death shall have no dominion."
You are NOT unskilled at changing your feelings.
Hope you had a safe drive. Enjoy home
Member
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Melbourne, Victoria Australia
Posts: 1,202
Dear Robbie,
I can't say any better what all the contributors have already, as I'm late to this incredible thread.
One of my most intuitive immediate thoughts, though, emerged from a major scene in 'The Mission'. The context is totally different (Mendoza - played by de Niro - continuing to carry his overwhelming guilt / shame for having killed his own brother in a crime of passion, whilst in his 'identity' as a mercenary. He's just asked to join the Jesuits on their journey to establish a mission high in the jungle above the falls and insists on dragging the 'rock' of his past life....). Nevertheless, I believe that you will store up the felt experience of watching this segment and add it to all the deep wisdom and love offered to you in this thread.
The two Youtube clips essentially follow one after the other with only a tiny gap (from memory of all the times I've watched this sublime film over many years). I shared about this whole segment recently in a meeting.
Mendoza in the Mission - Dragging a Net Full of Regrets - YouTube
then:
Fav Scenes , The mission - YouTube
Peace and many blessings to you Robbie,
xx Vic
I can't say any better what all the contributors have already, as I'm late to this incredible thread.
One of my most intuitive immediate thoughts, though, emerged from a major scene in 'The Mission'. The context is totally different (Mendoza - played by de Niro - continuing to carry his overwhelming guilt / shame for having killed his own brother in a crime of passion, whilst in his 'identity' as a mercenary. He's just asked to join the Jesuits on their journey to establish a mission high in the jungle above the falls and insists on dragging the 'rock' of his past life....). Nevertheless, I believe that you will store up the felt experience of watching this segment and add it to all the deep wisdom and love offered to you in this thread.
The two Youtube clips essentially follow one after the other with only a tiny gap (from memory of all the times I've watched this sublime film over many years). I shared about this whole segment recently in a meeting.
Mendoza in the Mission - Dragging a Net Full of Regrets - YouTube
then:
Fav Scenes , The mission - YouTube
Peace and many blessings to you Robbie,
xx Vic
Adventures In SpaceTime
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Posts: 5,827
Originally Posted by fini
How hard is it to push? There is something here about control which is nagging at me.
....is it a fear of utter chaos if the control isn't applied?
"where the wild things are" just popped into my mind while reading this.
....is it a fear of utter chaos if the control isn't applied?
"where the wild things are" just popped into my mind while reading this.
I'm unsure in this matter of my health realities which on many levels is still being debated by my medical team. I'm in disagreement with their prognosis of my post-polio syndrome and spinal stenosis. Its complicated (of course it is. When is it not lol)
Thanks fini. Good question. It opens another new facet to the discussion.
Adventures In SpaceTime
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Posts: 5,827
Originally Posted by bemyself
Dear Robbie,
I can't say any better what all the contributors have already, as I'm late to this incredible thread.
One of my most intuitive immediate thoughts, though, emerged from a major scene in 'The Mission'. The context is totally different (Mendoza - played by de Niro - continuing to carry his overwhelming guilt / shame for having killed his own brother in a crime of passion, whilst in his 'identity' as a mercenary. He's just asked to join the Jesuits on their journey to establish a mission high in the jungle above the falls and insists on dragging the 'rock' of his past life....). Nevertheless, I believe that you will store up the felt experience of watching this segment and add it to all the deep wisdom and love offered to you in this thread.
The two Youtube clips essentially follow one after the other with only a tiny gap (from memory of all the times I've watched this sublime film over many years). I shared about this whole segment recently in a meeting.
Mendoza in the Mission - Dragging a Net Full of Regrets - YouTube
then:
Fav Scenes , The mission - YouTube
Peace and many blessings to you Robbie,
xx Vic
I can't say any better what all the contributors have already, as I'm late to this incredible thread.
One of my most intuitive immediate thoughts, though, emerged from a major scene in 'The Mission'. The context is totally different (Mendoza - played by de Niro - continuing to carry his overwhelming guilt / shame for having killed his own brother in a crime of passion, whilst in his 'identity' as a mercenary. He's just asked to join the Jesuits on their journey to establish a mission high in the jungle above the falls and insists on dragging the 'rock' of his past life....). Nevertheless, I believe that you will store up the felt experience of watching this segment and add it to all the deep wisdom and love offered to you in this thread.
The two Youtube clips essentially follow one after the other with only a tiny gap (from memory of all the times I've watched this sublime film over many years). I shared about this whole segment recently in a meeting.
Mendoza in the Mission - Dragging a Net Full of Regrets - YouTube
then:
Fav Scenes , The mission - YouTube
Peace and many blessings to you Robbie,
xx Vic
I am, presently, working against myself. I know it. I'll check out the whole movie as the clips spoke to me as a smack in the face. That is me for sure. You know, I think I self-destructed back in '69 thru '72 not just because I had extreme events of ongoing traumas. I also needed a solution which was immediate and sufficient to my desires. Fix me NOW or to hell with it all. I was a kid and results meant everything to me. Alcohol provided the gateway and the transportation for the journey ahead ie finish the destruction the medicals had irreversibly and ignorantly began supposedly for the betterment of my life. HA!
Adventures In SpaceTime
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Posts: 5,827
Originally Posted by haennie
You are NOT unskilled at changing your feelings.
Hope you had a safe drive. Enjoy home
Hope you had a safe drive. Enjoy home
so much, and even if so, I'm not skilled at such changes. I mean, if I were, I'd simply change my feelings to feel good 24/7, you know?
I do appreciate you saying so though haennie. I'd like to agree with you. I just don't see it.
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