Authenticity

 
Old 09-06-2014, 07:08 AM
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Authenticity

Authenticity. We all have it in shades of grey is my thinking. Most things in a well lived life are not seriously black and white. Even sobriety, yeah?

Quitting is black and white it seems obvious enough. Is sobriety? A lot of grey there when we take to account the many backstories which present differing experiences as to what is an authentic sobriety across the board.

Is ego (self) black and white? Can't be because if so then we couldn't learn from our mistakes, there would be no curve, no continuum moving from wrong to right, no progression, no growth. Otherwise we could be nothing more than robotic machines, heh heh.

It follows sobriety is also shades of grey.

Authenticity in sobriety must then also be shades of grey, yeah?

Food for thought.
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Old 09-06-2014, 07:42 AM
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I'm not sure what you mean. Whether one is authentic in how they live their lives is not something others can always see.

As far as black/white, and shades of grey...for me, some things in life are black and white. There are things I simply don't do. There are things I always do.

These type of conversations always bring up outrageous hypotheticals. For instance, I say, "I do not steal. That is black and white. It's something I don't do." Then someone else says, "Well, if your children were starving to death, dying in your arms, you would steal food for them, wouldn't you?" To build this type of strawman to then jump to "So...see! Nothing in life is black and white!" is a weak argument.

When you say sobriety is shades of grey, I don't understand what you mean either. I suspect that might be because you and I have different definitions of sobriety though.

If I'm living my life in a way that coincides with my beliefs, then I'm living authentically. If my beliefs change and grow, and I abandon things that I did or adopt new ways of doing things, then I'm now also living authentically. It doesn't mean I wasn't living authentically before.
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Old 09-06-2014, 07:55 AM
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Yeah, our differing definitions would be in play, I'm thinking too.
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Old 09-06-2014, 07:59 AM
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Originally Posted by soberlicious View Post
If I'm living my life in a way that coincides with my beliefs, then I'm living authentically. If my beliefs change and grow, and I abandon things that I did or adopt new ways of doing things, then I'm now also living authentically. It doesn't mean I wasn't living authentically before.
This above ^ makes sense. It follows then when we don't have faith (confidence) in our beliefs, our authenticity shallows? Weakens? Becomes ambivalent?
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Old 09-06-2014, 08:28 AM
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Originally Posted by RobbyRobot
This above ^ makes sense. It follows then when we don't have faith (confidence) in our beliefs, our authenticity shallows? Weakens? Becomes ambivalent?
I don't think that is what logically follows. If I don't have confidence about a decision, or I'm ambivalent, it simply means I don't know what the right answer is yet. I believe "I don't know" is a very authentic answer.

I think that is very different from inauthenticity. Being inauthentic means doing things that I believe are wrong on some level. In some ways, in my life, this is created for me. For instance, I do not believe in the value of high stakes testing in education. I have seen first hand the negative effects it has on children and to the learning process. Nevertheless, if I do not teach to the test, then I am putting my students in jeopardy of not being able to perform on this assessment. It's doesn't matter what I believe, I must go against those beliefs.

When I was living addicted, I was behaving in ways which were not true to my nature. On some level I knew that. That's what created my suffering.

I personally don't think lacking confidence = not being authentic. I also don't understand how authenticity can "shallow". What does that mean?
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Old 09-06-2014, 08:40 AM
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I suppose when one realizes they are inauthentic, they at the same moment become authentic in their awareness of their actual inauthenticity. Paradox, lol. But is awareness enough on its own accountable for our state of being? I think not. Awareness is at most a result of being in a state of being.

By shallow I am speaking to the shades of grey. In my life, my beliefs and disbeliefs are measured against each other ie I don't have hard absolutes in my beliefs being I'm agnostic. I always have a measure of both belief and disbelief on any one whatever. I doubt I have exceptions to this rule.

So shallow for me would be neither hot or cold, neither strong or weak, neither right or wrong - the two opposing values would tend to imperfectly cancel each other out - no depth in other words.

This means I'm both authentic and inauthentic in my experiences of self when I don't have faith in myself.
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Old 09-06-2014, 08:44 AM
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The common denominator for us all is not drinking, the means of how we got there though differs immensely, so Sobriety in my mind definitely does not have a black/white solution, what works for me or you, may not work for someone else, we all have to find our own unique path to longterm Sobriety, all started though in the black/white action of simply not drinking!!

I'm not sure on the angle of the discussion, but following on from the thread on personal experience, there can be authenticity in what we speak of from personal experience, but say as a non AA goer if someone asked me about the ins and outs of something specific then my advice is going to be pretty shallow/weak as it's not apart of my Sobriety, however ask me about dealing with stress at work, living on my own or how to use SR as effectively as possible then that's gonna be pretty authentic advice!!
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Old 09-06-2014, 08:47 AM
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If I'm living my life in a way that coincides with my beliefs, then I'm living authentically. If my beliefs change and grow, and I abandon things that I did or adopt new ways of doing things, then I'm now also living authentically. It doesn't mean I wasn't living authentically before.

This above ^ makes sense. It follows then when we don't have faith (confidence) in our beliefs, our authenticity shallows? Weakens? Becomes ambivalent?
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i don't think it follows.
if/when my beliefs or values change, or if i hold to beliefs which i'm not sure of, doesn't mean i'm not authentic. i'm then authentic in my uncertainty.
the way i see it authenticity is about being "real", and i can be that whether i'm in black/white, or grey, or yellow.
i see no contradiction in being authentically ambivalent, for example.
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Old 09-06-2014, 09:01 AM
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For me anyways, it wasn't always clear what I believed in, I mean really unclear like I was paralysed with disbelief. To me, this became a realm of un-authenticity. I could say the only authentic appreciated experiences I was then having was my high confidence in my disbeliefs.
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Old 09-06-2014, 09:04 AM
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Originally Posted by purpleknight
so Sobriety in my mind definitely does not have a black/white solution
Well, there is no black and white solution for everyone, but I was speaking in terms of that it is black and white for me. When I say I'm never drinking again, I've had people say to me, "Soberlicious, you can't say that. You have no way of knowing the future." For me, in my life, yes...it is black and white.

Robot, no, I don't think that awareness alone makes me an authentic person. I was well aware of the shitstorm my drinking created for others, but did not stop. I think what made me inauthentic was that my actions did not match my beliefs. What I did do was outwardly try to adapt my beliefs to my actions so that I could continue drinking, but the truth was always known inside me on some level, which is why living inauthentically manifested in anxiety, depression, and fear. Because that incongruency will show itself. It will seep out of the cracks.
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Old 09-06-2014, 09:09 AM
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Originally Posted by RobbyRobot
For me anyways, it wasn't always clear what I believed in, I mean really unclear like I was paralysed with disbelief. To me, this became a realm of un-authenticity. I could say the only authentic appreciated experiences I was then having was my high confidence in my disbeliefs.
Do you mean when you were addicted to substances? I don't believe anyone can be truly authentic when they are using substances. Manipulating the brain clouds clarity. When I was addicted I was often unsure of reality, I had no decision making abilities.
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Old 09-06-2014, 09:09 AM
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Certainly quitting is an action taken either yea or nay. I've quit forever too even though I'm agnostic on beliefs, lol.
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Old 09-06-2014, 09:16 AM
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Originally Posted by soberlicious View Post
Do you mean when you were addicted to substances? I don't believe anyone can be truly authentic when they are using substances. Manipulating the brain clouds clarity. When I was addicted I was often unsure of reality, I had no decision making abilities.
For sure then, and yet I've learned reality is also what we make it out to be to certain limits of course. My past experiences pushed me beyond what I considered reality, and so I've gained a whole surreal appreciation now that can't be readily undone, even in sobriety. I can't become unaware of my experiences now unless I'm drunk, and that hasn't happened in more than 30 years, so my inner reality is white hot and powerfully intact. This is actually troublesome on some levels for me...
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Old 09-06-2014, 09:26 AM
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Originally Posted by fini View Post
the way i see it authenticity is about being "real", and i can be that whether i'm in black/white, or grey, or yellow.
i see no contradiction in being authentically ambivalent, for example.
Being real though must also include being unauthentic as well as being authentic though, yeah? Sure I can be authentic about being unauthentic, but this is just a *described experience* of my being aware of my unauthenticity yeah? I would yet still be unauthentic as shades of grey of course...
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Old 09-06-2014, 09:29 AM
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Being real though must all include being unauthentic as well as being authentic though, yeah? Sure I can be authentic about being unauthentic, but this is just a *described experience* of my being aware of my unauthenticity yeah? I would yet still be unauthentic as shades of grey of course...
You lost me here....
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Old 09-06-2014, 09:33 AM
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Originally Posted by soberlicious View Post
Well, there is no black and white solution for everyone, but I was speaking in terms of that it is black and white for me. When I say I'm never drinking again, I've had people say to me, "Soberlicious, you can't say that. You have no way of knowing the future." For me, in my life, yes...it is black and white.
Oh I totally agree, what works for me too is black/white in my day to day activities, it works and there's no debate about it, but it may not work for someone else, so in the grand scheme of the Sober universe it's not a solution for everyone!!
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Old 09-06-2014, 09:35 AM
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The day I quit it was all in/all out and now or neverkind of thing. I needed to see it that way so I could make it through. There was times I would have turned back if I thought that was an option. I feel like I have moved away from that demarcation. I just not something that I want.
Awesome quote of the day:

Your situation

Your situation does not define you. In fact, your situation does not really even limit you.

You can transcend any situation with purposeful, focused action. You can choose to change things, to grow, to improve, to create, to prosper and to live with maximum joy and fulfillment.

Don’t get caught up in making judgments about whether it is easy or difficult, pleasant or uncomfortable. Just step forward and do what you know is best for your life and your world.

You are a living bundle of infinitely flexible energy. Instead of letting your circumstances bring you down, let your possibilities lift you up.

Grab the best of those possibilities and inject your authentic passion into them. Create something wonderful, again and again.

Instead of using your situation as an excuse, use it as a starting point. Connect with the unique beauty and immense value of who you are, and rise above any situation
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Old 09-06-2014, 09:44 AM
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I think I understand what you are getting at.

For me quitting was very black and white. I enjoy black and white it makes sense. Math and physics make sense and create peace and ease...black and white. Philosophy, not so much as you would say.

Quitting is very black and white but recovery for me is about creating a sustainable life. This is about living in the grey for me - at least creating a sustainable life. Otherwise I end up becoming a monk. So there is lots of grey I need to deal with. This creates turbulence for me in recovery - balance - something I have never been very good with.

In terms of authenticity I am not sure the parallel is there between grey and authenticity. Certainly black and white decisions can be authentic as can grey areas of life. I believe being authentic comes first and then for me learning to live in the grey came second.
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Old 09-06-2014, 09:45 AM
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Age 12 I readily drank to become anybody but who I was. It worked as long as I could be different. Eventually, around age 15 it began to become more difficult to be different ie even though drinking, the new me was becoming the status quo. By 18 it was over for me. No matter what I drank or drug I took, all I could do was get more surreal and insane, but I still felt like me. And the me that I felt was not authentic to me, even though it was on some important levels.

The 12 year old who wanted to escape, and successfully did was my baseline for being authentic. It gets complicated now though. The new me with alcohol became the old me again but now totally addicted and crazy to boot. I became surreal to myself. So, was I now authentically myself again, but just more deranged? I dunno.

Nowadays, I'm in a battle with myself questioning my own authenticity. This is a direct result of my amputation in 2012 which allows me physical freedom of movement and sensations that I last felt when I was 12. So for the last two years, my feelings have changed to a new kind of freedom. Between 1969 and 2012, I was physically unable to feel what I'm now feeling. Thee new feelings are in fact though causing me to reflect on some emotions and headspaces that I also haven't been with from 1969 to 2012.

Its a very surreal trip I'm going thru now, because for 43 years I've been unable to feel, think, and belief in what I'm now experiencing as authentic.

In a lot of ways, I'm lost to myself. For me, this is unendurable. I mean unendurable. My face is full with tears as I write these words.
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Old 09-06-2014, 09:55 AM
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Hmmm...sounds like you have some existentialism going on here Robby? I am sorry you are struggling friend. However, I can't help but think this turmoil you face is to indeed make you stronger and the reality of what you are feeling is growing pains, as you cross into the next level of personal growth?

The following comes to mind:

Am I my thoughts, the thoughts that I am thinking? No. Thoughts come and go; I am not my thoughts. Am I my body? They tell us that millions of cells in our body are changed or are renewed every minute, so that by the end of seven years we don’t have a single living cell in our body that was there seven years before. Cells come and go. Cells arise and die. But “I” seems to persist. So am I my body? Evidently not! “I” is something other and more than the body. You might say the body is part of “I,” but it is a changing part. It keeps moving, it keeps changing. We have the same name for it but it constantly changes. Just as we have thesame name for Niagara Falls, but Niagara Falls is constituted by water that is constantly changing. We use the same name for an ever-changing reality.

Mello, Anthony De (2011-08-31). Awareness (p. 48). The Doubleday Religious Publishing Group. Kindle Edition.
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