Authenticity
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: "I'm not lost for I know where I am. But however, where I am may be lost ..."
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Much activity since this morning. I thought this was truly another "food for thought" thread. You know I never turn down an invitation to a passionate discussion!
This is altogether something different I see now though.
I've had suicidal ideations since I was young. I've behaved my whole life as if I don't care if I die, because I haven't. Not only have I engaged in all manner of self-harm, I've invited others to join in. I cannot post here the things I've done to myself and had others do to me in the name of self loathing.
As you know, I'm not fluffy. I'm not going to embrace my "inner child" and get all "I'm ok/you're ok". I'm also not going to pretend that I understand your exact situation, but I do understand pain, struggle, self-loathing, and questioning the reason for my existence. I decided that it doesn't matter, you know, whether this is all too hard. I have to do it. I still have to do it. And just in the doing...the pushing through, somehow things get better. I can't just cop out and fade away, because I have a responsibility to keep going. And so do you.
This is altogether something different I see now though.
I've had suicidal ideations since I was young. I've behaved my whole life as if I don't care if I die, because I haven't. Not only have I engaged in all manner of self-harm, I've invited others to join in. I cannot post here the things I've done to myself and had others do to me in the name of self loathing.
As you know, I'm not fluffy. I'm not going to embrace my "inner child" and get all "I'm ok/you're ok". I'm also not going to pretend that I understand your exact situation, but I do understand pain, struggle, self-loathing, and questioning the reason for my existence. I decided that it doesn't matter, you know, whether this is all too hard. I have to do it. I still have to do it. And just in the doing...the pushing through, somehow things get better. I can't just cop out and fade away, because I have a responsibility to keep going. And so do you.
Adventures In SpaceTime
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Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Posts: 5,827
Originally Posted by soberlicious 
Much activity since this morning. I thought this was truly another "food for thought" thread. You know I never turn down an invitation to a passionate discussion!
This is altogether something different I see now though.
I've had suicidal ideations since I was young. I've behaved my whole life as if I don't care if I die, because I haven't. Not only have I engaged in all manner of self-harm, I've invited others to join in. I cannot post here the things I've done to myself and had others do to me in the name of self loathing.
As you know, I'm not fluffy. I'm not going to embrace my "inner child" and get all "I'm ok/you're ok". I'm also not going to pretend that I understand your exact situation, but I do understand pain, struggle, self-loathing, and questioning the reason for my existence. I decided that it doesn't matter, you know, whether this is all too hard. I have to do it. I still have to do it. And just in the doing...the pushing through, somehow things get better. I can't just cop out and fade away, because I have a responsibility to keep going. And so do you.
This is altogether something different I see now though.
I've had suicidal ideations since I was young. I've behaved my whole life as if I don't care if I die, because I haven't. Not only have I engaged in all manner of self-harm, I've invited others to join in. I cannot post here the things I've done to myself and had others do to me in the name of self loathing.
As you know, I'm not fluffy. I'm not going to embrace my "inner child" and get all "I'm ok/you're ok". I'm also not going to pretend that I understand your exact situation, but I do understand pain, struggle, self-loathing, and questioning the reason for my existence. I decided that it doesn't matter, you know, whether this is all too hard. I have to do it. I still have to do it. And just in the doing...the pushing through, somehow things get better. I can't just cop out and fade away, because I have a responsibility to keep going. And so do you.
Its the impossible fight I have now begun with myself over this. I don't as yet realize what defines a win or loss at this point. I feel blindsided and stupidly outdone. I feel at fault, which is wholly different than being responsible. And its not that my present condition is unwarranted. Its I can't seem to break the connections between what was as a kid, and what is now. I need to dump 43 years of experiences that defined me, protected me, and was me. Not dump. Something else.
Adventures In SpaceTime
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Originally Posted by trachemys
I don't think this subject is subjective. I think suicide is wrong. Period. No discussion
From something I said?
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Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 211,442
I think re-defining ourselves is a constant human thing...
Again I only have my experience to share...I defined myself as SR moderator for a while...not in a bad way, but now other definitions are coming back into play as I re-embrace life and change moving back into the city.
It doesn't mean I lose all those cards that have SR at the top...it just means I'm reshuffling the deck..
Trying to find meaning and purpose is what it's all about, I think.
D
Again I only have my experience to share...I defined myself as SR moderator for a while...not in a bad way, but now other definitions are coming back into play as I re-embrace life and change moving back into the city.
It doesn't mean I lose all those cards that have SR at the top...it just means I'm reshuffling the deck..
Trying to find meaning and purpose is what it's all about, I think.
D
Adventures In SpaceTime
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Originally Posted by trachemys
I don't think this subject is subjective. I think suicide is wrong. Period. No discussion
Its okay if you see it as wrong. Its not that its wrong to me exactly. Its more that its a nothingness solution. Its not right either for that matter, although I have felt that way before.
Discussion of it doesn't make me or break me.
I can understand though how others may be sensitive to such discussions.
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: "I'm not lost for I know where I am. But however, where I am may be lost ..."
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Originally Posted by RobbyRobot
Not dump. Something else.
Its I can't seem to break the connections between what was as a kid, and what is now.
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Originally Posted by EndGameNYC
Before I sign off for a time, I was reminded after reading jdooner's comments about the philosophical issue of self-identity through the process of change, through time, both an existential and a metaphysical problem. This is only made more problematic by the reality that we are all and always in the process of becoming rather than being. Despite its seductive powers, the idea of being a finished product is illusory and often dangerous when indulged. Life tends to shake us out of our "everydayness," forever reminding us that there is still more to be done, no matter how much we may want to freeze moments in time.
From a psychological perspective, developmental goals vary greatly across the life span, and existential dyssynchrony is often the result...the vague but persistent and nagging feeling that we are not supposed to be where we are in life. In my experience, it's one of the top reasons why people come to therapy...or avoid it. And this is why support and why places like SR are so important for so many people. As human beings, as mortals, we are uniquely suited to endure existential crises, but we are not often built to survive them on our own.
From a psychological perspective, developmental goals vary greatly across the life span, and existential dyssynchrony is often the result...the vague but persistent and nagging feeling that we are not supposed to be where we are in life. In my experience, it's one of the top reasons why people come to therapy...or avoid it. And this is why support and why places like SR are so important for so many people. As human beings, as mortals, we are uniquely suited to endure existential crises, but we are not often built to survive them on our own.
BTW - I am enjoying Baudelaire - very grey and challenging my ideals.
Adventures In SpaceTime
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Originally Posted by soberlicious
Yes. Something else. Redefine the experiences? Transform them? Maybe just let them be and they will settle where they belong? I don't know, but I have confidence you will find a solution.
For me, I decided there were no connections except the ones I created. That was then, this is now. Although some experiences can swiftly bring parts of my brain to "back then", I tell myself there is no significant connection. That point in time is gone forever, except in my memory. I'm not suggesting this is the right way to think, it's just how I've learned to reconcile the feelings you're describing.
For me, I decided there were no connections except the ones I created. That was then, this is now. Although some experiences can swiftly bring parts of my brain to "back then", I tell myself there is no significant connection. That point in time is gone forever, except in my memory. I'm not suggesting this is the right way to think, it's just how I've learned to reconcile the feelings you're describing.
Thanks, soberlicious.
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I feel like I want to escape. These kind of feelings are unfortunately authentic. We all know where this is going.
we do?
no, Robby, there is not only one place this can go.
and you'd be the first one, ordinarily, to point that out.
is that what you're talking about when you say you're lost to yourself?
we do?
no, Robby, there is not only one place this can go.
and you'd be the first one, ordinarily, to point that out.
is that what you're talking about when you say you're lost to yourself?
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: "I'm not lost for I know where I am. But however, where I am may be lost ..."
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Feelings don't lie.
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My head is still spinning with thoughts about all this and am unsure which one to share, but here is one series. It's following up on some of the comments above on how existential crises relate to crises of identity.
I've had a tendency in my own life to search for roles or identities (identifications?) in all sorts of different ways, both practically and philosophically. To conceptualize everything, including myself. For me, most of the existential angst and crises that I had experienced were at times when I subjectively perceived one of these roles or identities failing or fading, often differently from how the external world (other people) saw it/me. These states tended to cause me intense despair but I would often find temporary relief in new books, concepts, new ideas, seemingly new ways of looking at the world and myself.
In terms of processing the despair, the most obvious solution is always either fixing the old role/identity, or looking for/creating a new one. This can go on and on and on for a long time... until we arrive at a point when we feel it's versions of the same or similar cycle repeating themselves and we are trapped in a somewhat similar way we can be trapped in an addiction. We can burn out in the process of both addiction and existential despair, feel tired, old, hopeless, empty, nihilistic.
To me there is a solution that is applicable to both addictions and existential/identity crises: breaking the attachment and not looking for replacement. In the case of a damaged role or identity, instead of continuing the search for new ones or trying to fix the old ones - stopping the self-identification with a form of existence we know from the past or would be tempted to create can lead to a new destination or level. Instead of forcing ourselves to recreate a "lost innocence", or construct a better form, instead of feeling frustrated for failing to do these and hating ourselves, instead of compulsively trying to always "do the thing" - sometimes sitting still and observing the changes for a while can make the required difference. Let things unfold and take new form naturally...
That's how I sometimes found solutions in my own life that I'd never imagined existed before. The release of trying to always find/create a new identity is of course very challenging, much like giving up and addiction. But then true recovery can start and we find new meaning in the process...
These are just some thoughts and experiences that came to my mind as free associations to this thread, Robby, not sure how useful.
I've had a tendency in my own life to search for roles or identities (identifications?) in all sorts of different ways, both practically and philosophically. To conceptualize everything, including myself. For me, most of the existential angst and crises that I had experienced were at times when I subjectively perceived one of these roles or identities failing or fading, often differently from how the external world (other people) saw it/me. These states tended to cause me intense despair but I would often find temporary relief in new books, concepts, new ideas, seemingly new ways of looking at the world and myself.
In terms of processing the despair, the most obvious solution is always either fixing the old role/identity, or looking for/creating a new one. This can go on and on and on for a long time... until we arrive at a point when we feel it's versions of the same or similar cycle repeating themselves and we are trapped in a somewhat similar way we can be trapped in an addiction. We can burn out in the process of both addiction and existential despair, feel tired, old, hopeless, empty, nihilistic.
To me there is a solution that is applicable to both addictions and existential/identity crises: breaking the attachment and not looking for replacement. In the case of a damaged role or identity, instead of continuing the search for new ones or trying to fix the old ones - stopping the self-identification with a form of existence we know from the past or would be tempted to create can lead to a new destination or level. Instead of forcing ourselves to recreate a "lost innocence", or construct a better form, instead of feeling frustrated for failing to do these and hating ourselves, instead of compulsively trying to always "do the thing" - sometimes sitting still and observing the changes for a while can make the required difference. Let things unfold and take new form naturally...
That's how I sometimes found solutions in my own life that I'd never imagined existed before. The release of trying to always find/create a new identity is of course very challenging, much like giving up and addiction. But then true recovery can start and we find new meaning in the process...
These are just some thoughts and experiences that came to my mind as free associations to this thread, Robby, not sure how useful.
Adventures In SpaceTime
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Originally Posted by fini
I feel like I want to escape. These kind of feelings are unfortunately authentic. We all know where this is going.
we do?
no, Robby, there is not only one place this can go.
and you'd be the first one, ordinarily, to point that out.
is that what you're talking about when you say you're lost to yourself?
we do?
no, Robby, there is not only one place this can go.
and you'd be the first one, ordinarily, to point that out.
is that what you're talking about when you say you're lost to yourself?
If I was drinking, no problem. It wouldn't matter to me that drinking didn't solve my problems. I wouldn't care. Since I'm not going to drink, and yet these are the same (kind of) feelings I remember as a kid drinking over, I'm feeling lost to myself. When drinking isn't an option, things get real right quick.
I'm surprised I don't care more, you know? I'm almost willing to just wallow in apathy. This thread actually is creating a lessor desire to not care, and that's a good thing, lol.
So yeah, its gonna hurt to be me If I want to be real. I just didn't want it to turn this way so suddenly. This is the path that brings me home, so I'll walk it. Looks like I'll have to crawl through some of it. Its doable.
WOW.
What a difference reaching out can accomplish in a single day, yeah?
That crawl statement is knocking down walls something else...
Awesome.
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Originally Posted by RobbyRobot
I'm ashamed to admit I feel desperate enough to pull the wool over my own eyes.
Originally Posted by RobbyRobot
If this was a thinking process, I'd ace through it. Feelings are my most intimate and trusted anchors I have going for me. My intellect has always been playing catch up with my feelings. Feelings are. Intellect is loaded with vanities and other potholes. Feelings don't lie. My mind has often told me believable lies.
Food for thought...
Adventures In SpaceTime
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Originally Posted by fini
I sobered up as a different person than I'm now somewhat becoming it seems.
how could it be otherwise?
how could it be otherwise?
Yeah?
Adventures In SpaceTime
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Well. We've touched on my belief that feelings don't lie. I'm not going to walk away from that statement. And yet, I'm listening too.
Something is being lost in the translation. Hmmm.
Something is being lost in the translation. Hmmm.
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