Terminally Unique

Quite a few sweeping statements there.

Could you please direct me to the sources of this evidence?

Perhaps some medical textbooks or journals?

Possibly some statistics showing that the vast majority has accepted said evidence?

BackToSquareOne

The hardest part to understand about alcoholism is how a person could get so sick and go through the living hell of alcohol withdrawal then turn around and repeat the same experiment again and again knowing what the end result will be. It almost seems to override the logic/common sense areas of your brain or you wouldn't do it.

EricL

Honestly, you probably won't find much current research on that question.... because from an academic point of view it is fairly inconsequential. It would be akin to me asking, "Do you believe depression is disease?" In both cases there is much to be discovered as far as basic science goes. However, they have both been accepted by the community for years, and for each there are defined diagnostic criteria (Alcoholism is listed under Alcohol Dependence in the DSM IV), as well as accepted treatment modalities that show success.

As far as directing you towards a text book, I'm confident that you can figure out how to google things. Any basic psychiatric text should be sufficient for exploring questions you have about how they view alcoholism, and its treatment.

I don't see how you would still question that though when the AMA, APA, Medicare and by default the US Gov't, have all accepted it. The AMA is the largest physician "union" in the country... And the fellowship positions are paid for by medicare, thus the government, and regulatory agencies also view this as a disease. I did a brief search and the most recent article I found was from 1989... I wouldn't feel comfortable citing a twenty year old article for this issue regardless of what it finds.

Zencat

Whatever alcoholism is, I feel at least its not a moral failing. I kinda go with the "addicted brain" thought on the matter. There are some neurobiological processes involved in addiction. Causing changes in behavior and thought. To me this means a brain neurochemical and neurostructural rearrangement.

To what extent addiction makes these brain changes and how severely they effect the individual gives a picture of how addiction varies from person to person. Also I understand that the range of addiction treatment can vary from extensive to mild. At least that's how I see.

Terminally Unique

That one is easy. Addictive chemicals, ethanol included, "hijack" the same reward pathways that are used by the brain to direct survival behavior. The brain literally believes that the body needs "the stuff" for its own survival, much like it needs oxygen, water, and food.

Most, if not all, of this is handled by primitive sections of the brain - the limbic system - which, unlike the neocortex, is not capable of logic or common sense. It simply reacts.

Some treatment centers, notably Caron, have lectures on this. Commonly referred to as the "Lizard Brain" paradigm of addiction.

CarolD

Please remember...SR is not a legal or medical site...some posts and those that quoted them have been removed.
We are not here for research.....we are a peer support site.

Please do share your experiences in how your recovery journy is working or ask for support.

Mark75

Sure, looking at things from an evolutionary perspective, that whole lizard brain thing can explain some of that...

It is imperative that certain things happen if we are to survive as an individual... we must eat, drink, seek shelter... or as a species... we must procreate... so all this survival behavior, if it feels good... then it's more likely that we will do it... then we can talk about dopamine and all that...

Reptile Brain, Mid Brain, Lizard Brain... whatever. Basic survival. Alcohol gets all wrapped up in that for some.

For some....

Why is it that, for some, common sense is overruled, risks are taken, priorities change... all for the drink... Maybe our midbrains have been duped!! It thinks we need alcohol to survive... how did that happen? And what exactly is our role in it? Well, we keep rewarding it... feel bad, take a drink, feel good, take a drink, something missing? take a drink, too shy? take a drink, want to supercharge sex? take a drink.... so we've trained our midbrain to expect it...

Duh

I totally get and understand the reptile brain thing and alcoholism.

Why did my reptile brain need it and my wife's didn't? I trained it to, that's why!! Well, IMHO and that's my experience.

I have heard many say that they were born alcoholic. I believe that to be true. Now define alcoholic in that context... LOL... I did hear someone say that they were born curious. Now that!!!!! Now that, I can relate to that. Another thread asked why we became addicted... Well, hell, I liked it, I wanted to fully investigate the feeling... and others like it... LOLOLOLOL

Why? Why did I like to do that, Why was I curious, and someone else wasn't? Why did I think it was OK to do that.... Even before my midbrain became reprogrammed???.... Or.... did my midbrain come programed that way??? Did I have some responsibility there?

Which came first, the chicken or the cart?

Sorry for the ramble.... Disease? Midbrain? Too much of that talk makes my head hurt... I should get dressed and go to work, LOL..

uncle holmes

I too battle anger and depression in sobriety. I've found the best way to put what others think about me being an alcoholic to rest is to not pick up a drink no matter what and always continue changing me for the better. If I do this, and I have for 19 years now, the issue is wiped out and it's nearly impossible for others to discriminate against me for being an alcoholic if I'm staying sober and always working on that inside job.

As far as anger and depression in sobriety, it's not to the point where I need medication, but I do sympathize with people who need medication. I keep it under control by two AA meetings a week, working the steps, exercise and good eating habits.

newby1961

I read or heard somewhere that there is more evidence that the brain of an alcoholic is different than one that is not. So when one adds alcohol to it it fuctions differently?

All I know is that if I drink the potential of dying is there and to be honest what scares me more is the potential of living that devastating life again.

I hope people don't get to hung up on the disease concept I myself try to remember to Keep it Simple..

GettingStronger2

And the debate rages on. I guess to me, i have to ask, does it matter? Disease or not, it is a very real and very dangerous problem. Left untreated or unresolved, it kills. Bottom line.

I believe it is a disease, both a mental and physical one. I believe alcoholics physically react to alcohol differently than non alcoholics. But that belief alone, and the knowledge that led to it, does nothing for me.

I have listened to people debate this issue with a lot of passion. The end result is the same, disease or not. So, does it really matter? Does determining if it is a disease or not (and if it is not, what exactly is it), make a difference in recovery? For me, the answer is no.

Terminally Unique

It does matter, because although the disease theory proponents may have meant well, they have accomplished nothing as far as stigma is concerned, and they have actually inspired a backlash in the form of the "addiction is a choice" movement.

The usual assumption is that people will be more likely to seek help if it is considered a disease, but in practice, this often backfires. Many people avoid seeking help precisely because they do not want to be diagnosed with "the disease."

You also have another category of people, who, because they believe that they have a disease, are inclined to do nothing about it.

"Oh well, I have a disease which makes me powerless over alcohol. No use trying to quit. Bottoms up !!!"

It may very well be a disease, but until such time a "cure" is actually found, people are better served realizing that they need to do something about it.

In any case, I believe that the assumption that people will not seek help unless it is considered a disease is false. People seek help for all sorts of problems that are not diseases. Can't pass the bar exam? Failed it ten times already? Lots of people seek help by hiring a tutor.

Justfor1

Thanks everyone. I don't know if it's a disease or not but I know I can't drink. I'm allergic to alcohol and I break out when I drink it.

PaperDolls

I used to be into debating things like this. I knew I had all the answers. Today, it doesn't matter to me what you call it, disease or not. It was ruining my life and would have eventually killed me had I not stopped.

Today, I don't mind much what others think of me or my alcoholism. It's none of my business nor does it affect me much. I also don't broadcast it to people who don't need to know.

I'm proud of you Justfor1 for realizing that you can't drink like a normal person. Congrats!

Terminally Unique

I can understand your concern here, but research does help some people.

I know that in my case, learning about the acetaldehyde/MEOS pathway connection to ethanol addiction from James Milam's "Under The Influence," which was essentially a synthesis of available research into a coherent thesis, helped me to understand the "cucumber turned pickle" analogy.

It provided a very logical and sound explanation for why my body now reacts to alcohol the way that it does, and for why it will continue to react that way, regardless of what I do, even though this was not always the case.

It also provided a logical explanation for why I have this "problem," in spite of the fact that no one else in my family does, which leads me to doubt that I inherited it.

EricL

I agree, although I don't know what posts were deleted, it doesn't seem that anyone is giving medical advice, simply a perspective on the question at hand.

Much like AVRT, learning the physiology of alcohol and alcohol dependence elucidated a little more about my condition for me. And, at least in my experience, this has not had negative consequences and at best reinforced the fact that I am fundamentally different from normal drinkers and will never reclaim that status.

EricL

I don't understand this reasoning, there are many diseases that we have no "cure" for yet people everyday seek treatment for cancers, HIV, asthma, depression, diabetes, etc.

While we may not be able to "cure" many such diseases, we are able to manage them, and prevent the symptoms from dictating peoples' lives.

Additionally, for many of these heart disease, diabetes, cancer, HIV, there are both genetic and environmental/behavioral factors at play and one can argue that the conditions are a consequence of the patient's choices/lifestyle. Yet, people seek medical help.

Maybe the stigma more arises from the fact that there really are few outward symptoms of the disease of alcoholism? Making it more akin to depression or other mental health diseases?

Terminally Unique

You'd be surprised how many people don't get an STD test because they are afraid of a positive HIV diagnosis. They'll go on infecting others for years, too.

I don't think that the disease concept of alcoholism has accomplished much. It has done very little to make people more sympathetic, and since there is no "cure" yet, in the medical sense, people aren't always helped by it. The idea that telling people they are diseased will prompt them to seek help is not necessarily true. For many, this is not only a reason not to seek help, but potentially an excuse to keep on drinking.

Besides, "disease" as used by the medical community is very different from how the recovery community normally views "the disease." Recovery advocates may appeal to medical authority, but their concept of "the disease" usually has very little to do with medicine, and the same goes for their solution.

How many times have you heard the expression "my disease talking", as if it were a little devil sitting on one's shoulder, with an angel on the other, for example?

Boleo

Matt Talbot - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

IllBeFree

Thank you for posting this. I wonder the same thing. A very kind woman that I spoke with this morning and whom has offered to take me to my 2nd meeting tonight says that her alcoholism is a disease the same as her mother's cancer. I said, "But there is not the stigma to cancer as there is to alcoholism..." She says it is a lot better than it was 10 years ago because more and more people are more educated about it and more and more VERY high functioning, successful, well-known professionals and personalities have the disease. I'm new to this so I'm like, "Ok...if y'all say so..."

IllBeFree

Tell me, must we even let people know if we have alcoholism?