I am an addict in AA
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Originally Posted by 4thdimension86 
So my OP might have been confusing but this has gotten off track. The original topic was whether or not discussing drug use in AA was a violation of the traditions. My argument is no because of the many references to drug use in the BB and the fact that one of the most notable stories in the BB describes a great deal of drug use. In fact the alcoholic in the story "Acceptance is the Answer" seems to have suffered from addiction to speed and morphine as much as he suffered from alcoholism.
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Originally Posted by 4thdimension86
There I said it! Do any "traditionalists" object to that? I do not feel that talking about drugs in a meeting is a violation of the traditions. Alcohol was not my drug of choice. An alcoholic is simply a drug addict whose drug of choice is alcohol. I think saying the "dry goods" is ridiculous. Everyone knows what I mean anyway. The term "alcoholic/addict" is used several times in The Doctor's Opinion. Drug use is mentioned frequently throughout the Big Book. It is no secret that Dr. Bob and Bill Wilson used drugs. The story "Acceptance is the Answer" is one of the most important stories in the Big Book and it is almost exclusively about drug use. The author of the story used "speed" and opiates. He was much like myself. I shot OPIATES and COCAINE in my arm with a SYRINGE! I did drink heavily at some points in my active addiction and I am sure I could have been a true alcoholic if I worked for it but I discovered things that I liked more. Furthermore, I did not find a solution in NA. If you ever read the Basic Text and attended NA meetings you should be aware that IT IS NOT THE SAME 12 STEP PROGRAM! It was based on AA but there are clearly big differences. I am bringing this up because the chair person at a meeting interrupted me while I was sharing and told me to keep it to alcoholism because I was talking about drugs. What really ticked me off was that the chair person was a heroin addict like myself and no one else in that meeting cared. In fact most of them were addicts. Yes I caught a resentment! I think society views alcohol as being different as drugs and unfortunately that attitude is still prevalent in AA. If simply mentioning drugs in a meeting is a violation of the traditions than that means every reference to drugs in the Big Book needs to be removed. Any opinions on this matter?
I got sober in my teens back in the late 1970's. I thought those old bastards didn't know a thing about how the world really was. AA needed to get with the times. It took me awhile, but I learned our founders got everything right.
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Chairing a meeting I believe is a huge responsibilty, actually to some extent an art-form. The chair person directs you in the right direction when sharing, either to stay on topic, or to talk about alcohol or to cut you completely off and tell you to stick around after the meeting to discuss some things. But the watered down AA 12 step meetings and program is the norm these days. Just ramble on, stay in the problem, dont discuss the solution as its laid out in the book.
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Originally Posted by Db1105
I would suggest you go back and read pg(s) 61-62 in The Big Book, then read The Twelve Traditions as a whole, and not in piecemeal. Have you worked The 12 Steps? Do you have a sponsor?
I got sober in my teens back in the late 1970's. I thought those old bastards didn't know a thing about how the world really was. AA needed to get with the times. It took me awhile, but I learned our founders got everything right.
I got sober in my teens back in the late 1970's. I thought those old bastards didn't know a thing about how the world really was. AA needed to get with the times. It took me awhile, but I learned our founders got everything right.
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Originally Posted by 4thdimension86
Yes I have a sponsor and have been through the BB and the steps. Some of those old bastards have been on step one for 20 years. It is the quality not the quantity.
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Originally Posted by RobbyRobot
Yeah, quality trumps quantity every time. Still though, better an old bastard with quantity then a drunken old bastard, yeah? Isn't it great how folks get to choose for themselves how they do their own journey with their own sober lives in AA, lol.
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Perhaps my slide back into me opiate addiction was the result of me drinking alcoholically. I was drunk when I did that Oxycontin. I remember that night like it was yesterday. I knew I unleashed a monster. I remembered what happened the last time I played with opiates and knew where I was going. Maybe if my inhibitions weren't lowered by alcohol I might not have done it. I had gotten clean off dope when I was 19. alcohol was the first drug I went back to.
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Originally Posted by 4thdimension86
I don't agree with that. I knew some really nasty dry drunks that probably would have been nicer if they were drunk.
Originally Posted by 4thdimension86
Perhaps my slide back into me opiate addiction was the result of me drinking alcoholically. I was drunk when I did that Oxycontin. I remember that night like it was yesterday. I knew I unleashed a monster. I remembered what happened the last time I played with opiates and knew where I was going. Maybe if my inhibitions weren't lowered by alcohol I might not have done it. I had gotten clean off dope when I was 19. alcohol was the first drug I went back to.
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The "addict in AA" topic comes up frequently enough that it might be helpful to be really clear on AA's stance about. Not my opinion or your opinion, but what AA actually says about it.
The pamphlet, 'Problems other than Alcohol' is AA's official commentary on the topic, and it covers all of these questions. I have to remember that just before the Traditions are listed in the BB, there is that little phrase, "Our AA experience has taught us that:" The Traditions are based on experience of what works and what doesn't. It has been learned that deviating from our primary purpose, as much as we would like to be helpful to everyone, simply doesn't work.
As the pamphlet states, 'It has been learned that there is no possible way to make nonalcoholics into AA members' and 'Therefore, I see no way of making nonalcoholic addicts into AA members'. This raises great concern and outcry among many who misunderstand what this says. The pamphlet clarifies, but the gist of it is in the wording 'nonalcoholic addicts.' According to AA, one can be a nonalcoholic addict. However, one can also be an alcoholic and an addict. This is the most common case with our younger members. I would suspect that many of us fall into the alcoholic/addict category. However, AA is not about to concern itself with the addict portion of that. We deal with alcoholism, full stop.
If you're an alcoholic, you have 'qualified' for membership. And everyone determines for themselves if they are an alcoholic. What else I may or may not be is not relevant. I might also be an addict, a chronic gambler, a sex junky, an overeater, etc. AA doesn't deal with any of those things.
I would hope that we can inform the sincerely earnest newcomer with kindness and patience about the Traditions that have held AA together over the years. I learned early on that AA doesn't need me for it survival. Instead, I need it for my survival, and it is in my best interest, as well as the alcoholics that come after me, to make sure AA stays around.
The pamphlet, 'Problems other than Alcohol' is AA's official commentary on the topic, and it covers all of these questions. I have to remember that just before the Traditions are listed in the BB, there is that little phrase, "Our AA experience has taught us that:" The Traditions are based on experience of what works and what doesn't. It has been learned that deviating from our primary purpose, as much as we would like to be helpful to everyone, simply doesn't work.
As the pamphlet states, 'It has been learned that there is no possible way to make nonalcoholics into AA members' and 'Therefore, I see no way of making nonalcoholic addicts into AA members'. This raises great concern and outcry among many who misunderstand what this says. The pamphlet clarifies, but the gist of it is in the wording 'nonalcoholic addicts.' According to AA, one can be a nonalcoholic addict. However, one can also be an alcoholic and an addict. This is the most common case with our younger members. I would suspect that many of us fall into the alcoholic/addict category. However, AA is not about to concern itself with the addict portion of that. We deal with alcoholism, full stop.
If you're an alcoholic, you have 'qualified' for membership. And everyone determines for themselves if they are an alcoholic. What else I may or may not be is not relevant. I might also be an addict, a chronic gambler, a sex junky, an overeater, etc. AA doesn't deal with any of those things.
I would hope that we can inform the sincerely earnest newcomer with kindness and patience about the Traditions that have held AA together over the years. I learned early on that AA doesn't need me for it survival. Instead, I need it for my survival, and it is in my best interest, as well as the alcoholics that come after me, to make sure AA stays around.
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Originally Posted by Gal220
Maybe they would be nicer, but they might also be dead. Wishing an alcoholic was drinking, knowing the horrors of addiction, is unbelievable to me. I wouldn't wish that on anyone.
It sounds like you might be able to say you are an alcoholic/addict. One of the 9th step promises is that we have ceased fighting. I think this is one of those instances where you can be right, or you can be happy. If you have quality sobriety, meaning you are happy and confident in your sobriety, and you have been through the steps, then your purpose at meetings is to be useful to others. Whether other people are doing that isn't the point. Fighting over every little thing makes a bad impression for the newcomer. Save it for a group conscience meeting. Be a part of the solution, not part of the problem.
It sounds like you might be able to say you are an alcoholic/addict. One of the 9th step promises is that we have ceased fighting. I think this is one of those instances where you can be right, or you can be happy. If you have quality sobriety, meaning you are happy and confident in your sobriety, and you have been through the steps, then your purpose at meetings is to be useful to others. Whether other people are doing that isn't the point. Fighting over every little thing makes a bad impression for the newcomer. Save it for a group conscience meeting. Be a part of the solution, not part of the problem.
I am out to destroy this creepy cult known as AA and will not rest until I am satisfied
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Originally Posted by keithj
The "addict in AA" topic comes up frequently enough that it might be helpful to be really clear on AA's stance about. Not my opinion or your opinion, but what AA actually says about it.
The pamphlet, 'Problems other than Alcohol' is AA's official commentary on the topic, and it covers all of these questions. I have to remember that just before the Traditions are listed in the BB, there is that little phrase, "Our AA experience has taught us that:" The Traditions are based on experience of what works and what doesn't. It has been learned that deviating from our primary purpose, as much as we would like to be helpful to everyone, simply doesn't work.
As the pamphlet states, 'It has been learned that there is no possible way to make nonalcoholics into AA members' and 'Therefore, I see no way of making nonalcoholic addicts into AA members'. This raises great concern and outcry among many who misunderstand what this says. The pamphlet clarifies, but the gist of it is in the wording 'nonalcoholic addicts.' According to AA, one can be a nonalcoholic addict. However, one can also be an alcoholic and an addict. This is the most common case with our younger members. I would suspect that many of us fall into the alcoholic/addict category. However, AA is not about to concern itself with the addict portion of that. We deal with alcoholism, full stop.
If you're an alcoholic, you have 'qualified' for membership. And everyone determines for themselves if they are an alcoholic. What else I may or may not be is not relevant. I might also be an addict, a chronic gambler, a sex junky, an overeater, etc. AA doesn't deal with any of those things.
I would hope that we can inform the sincerely earnest newcomer with kindness and patience about the Traditions that have held AA together over the years. I learned early on that AA doesn't need me for it survival. Instead, I need it for my survival, and it is in my best interest, as well as the alcoholics that come after me, to make sure AA stays around.
The pamphlet, 'Problems other than Alcohol' is AA's official commentary on the topic, and it covers all of these questions. I have to remember that just before the Traditions are listed in the BB, there is that little phrase, "Our AA experience has taught us that:" The Traditions are based on experience of what works and what doesn't. It has been learned that deviating from our primary purpose, as much as we would like to be helpful to everyone, simply doesn't work.
As the pamphlet states, 'It has been learned that there is no possible way to make nonalcoholics into AA members' and 'Therefore, I see no way of making nonalcoholic addicts into AA members'. This raises great concern and outcry among many who misunderstand what this says. The pamphlet clarifies, but the gist of it is in the wording 'nonalcoholic addicts.' According to AA, one can be a nonalcoholic addict. However, one can also be an alcoholic and an addict. This is the most common case with our younger members. I would suspect that many of us fall into the alcoholic/addict category. However, AA is not about to concern itself with the addict portion of that. We deal with alcoholism, full stop.
If you're an alcoholic, you have 'qualified' for membership. And everyone determines for themselves if they are an alcoholic. What else I may or may not be is not relevant. I might also be an addict, a chronic gambler, a sex junky, an overeater, etc. AA doesn't deal with any of those things.
I would hope that we can inform the sincerely earnest newcomer with kindness and patience about the Traditions that have held AA together over the years. I learned early on that AA doesn't need me for it survival. Instead, I need it for my survival, and it is in my best interest, as well as the alcoholics that come after me, to make sure AA stays around.
So my former grand sponsor in York has about 24 years. He stated that he does not blame addicts for going to AA. Furthermore, he also believed that a person could be alcoholic even if they never touched a drop of alcohol in their life. He also mentioned that perhaps addicts in AA such as myself should began attending NA and spreading the solution. If you have ever been to NA you will see that they typically share the problem and not the solution.
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Originally Posted by 4thdimension86
He also mentioned that perhaps addicts in AA such as myself should began attending NA and spreading the solution.
P
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when i started in 1995
i regularly said
"my name is frank, i'm cross addicted"
and everyone supported me at my groups
i personally feel
drugs are a problem
drived from alcohol
if i qualify now
i'll glaze over the drugs
i don't think there are many traditionalists left
the program has changed a lot
for sure, since bill w
and
besides, it's 2014
everyone has drank, had a joint, taken a pill, etc
so
focus on the program
not the people
fraankie
i regularly said
"my name is frank, i'm cross addicted"
and everyone supported me at my groups
i personally feel
drugs are a problem
drived from alcohol
if i qualify now
i'll glaze over the drugs
i don't think there are many traditionalists left
the program has changed a lot
for sure, since bill w
and
besides, it's 2014
everyone has drank, had a joint, taken a pill, etc
so
focus on the program
not the people
fraankie
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Originally Posted by 4thdimension86
I don't agree with that. I knew some really nasty dry drunks that probably would have been nicer if they were drunk.
The view from here looks like you do a lot of judging inside the rooms of AA. What people should talk about, how they should be sober, etc.
How's that really working out for YOU?
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Originally Posted by 4thdimension86
I am out to destroy this creepy cult known as AA and will not rest until I am satisfied
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Originally Posted by RobbyRobot
Nicer if they were drunk?
The view from here looks like you do a lot of judging inside the rooms of AA. What people should talk about, how they should be sober, etc.
How's that really working out for YOU?
The view from here looks like you do a lot of judging inside the rooms of AA. What people should talk about, how they should be sober, etc.
How's that really working out for YOU?
I have witnessed cases of untreated alcoholism that were as bad and even worse than active addiction. The actual drinking/drug use is just a side effect of our condition. I have been told that there were once meetings where they would hand people the 7th tradition basket and tell them to use the money to go back out because they weren't ready to get better. I have seen cases where people have been banned from meetings because of their behavior. BAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Originally Posted by 4thdimension86
I have witnessed cases of untreated alcoholism that were as bad and even worse than active addiction. The actual drinking/drug use is just a side effect of our condition. I have been told that there were once meetings where they would hand people the 7th tradition basket and tell them to use the money to go back out because they weren't ready to get better. I have seen cases where people have been banned from meetings because of their behavior. BAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The anger I sense from you is only going to be self harming though. So what do you want to achieve?
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