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I am an addict in AA

Old 02-08-2014, 10:07 AM
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4th dimension, I find very few people who are 30 and under who are pure alcoholics. I also believe that Dr. Bob was a drug addict as well. He used "high powered sedatives" if I recall. There are a few old timers who get very agitated when a drug addict attends this one meeting. I only used drugs when I was drinking. So I guess my drug of choice is alcohol. The only difference I see between pure alcoholics and drug addicts is the legality. Drug addicts will have more exposure to the seedy criminal world due to the legality of drugs and obtaining the money to purchase. But then again, alcoholics often get DUI's and even manage to kill people while being under the influence.
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Old 02-08-2014, 10:29 AM
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There have been many compulsions in my life. The way that I behave when I'm trying to get (or keep) a girl is different from how I behave when I'm trying to get (or hide) a drink. When I obsess about work or chase money, my behaviour, my priorities change. If I am trying to rescue you or please you, my behaviour can seem quite insane in the light of day.

My life was saved when I heard people with the same problems describe me through their own experience...first with Alcohol and then with other things. I was not alone or insane - there was a solution. But you can't give away what you don't have...and I cannot give the gift of identification to a drug addict or compulsive eater...nor can I receive it. Identification matters - the leaflet "Alcohol and other Problems" covers this ground well.

I dont think discussion of drug use in meetings is usually seen as a problem. But we come to share the solution to "our common problem" and folks are sometimes picked up when they drift away from this.

My heart goes out to any person who thinks they need AA but somehow feels it excludes them. The need for AA to be about Alcoholism overrides that though IMO...it's up to the individual to walk whatever path they need to walk.

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Old 02-08-2014, 10:47 AM
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Originally Posted by 4thdimension86 View Post
I identify myself as an alcoholic in meetings but I still do not feel that talking about drugs is a violation of the traditions. If so the BB needs to be revised because it is full of violations.
Since you identify yourself as an alcoholic, you red-flag yourself when you talk, if at length, of your drug abuse. Alcoholism is of course describing an addiction to alcohol, but within AA alcoholism is much more than simply another drug addiction. AA defines alcoholism specifically, and this makes all the difference for the members of AA. I describe myself as a recovered alcoholic drug addict, and I always have done so since becoming sober back in the 1981. Back then, in the '80's, illegal drug use was still ramping upwards. Nixon had declared official war on drugs in 1971. Alcohol was not included as a target of that useless effort against drugs. Nowadays, alcohol is openly known as a drug which can have fatal consequences, but even then its mostly known for its horror with drunk driving and increasingly for snuffing out young lives when mixed with other drugs.

Like it or not, at every level of our civilized society, alcohol, alcoholism, and recovery from alcohol - all this still has a significant difference in the public awareness as does illegal drugs. Pharmaceuticals have also kept a distinctive understanding in our society. People have different personal reasons for abusing alcohol, illegal drugs, and prescriptions. Since addiction doesn't respect societal norms or boundaries, then the movers and shakers of the world will continue to call the world of addiction as they see fit. Make no mistake, drug addiction to whatever drug is big business any way you want to slice n dice it. Same with recovery the last few decades. It's simply the way supply and demand works, and nothing is going to much change about supply since demand is only increasing, unfortunately. Knowledge and experience passed onto others can make a difference, I believe. Ultimately though, science will provide the best "workable solution" to the drug addiction scene in modern society, imo.

AA has indeed made the right choice in being inclusive for alcoholism and exclusive for everything else. Speaking for myself again here, I am a recovered alcoholic drug addict.
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Old 02-08-2014, 10:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Turninganewleaf View Post
I find very few people who are 30 and under who are pure alcoholics.
Well, keep looking if you care too, and keep an open mind then I suggest, because alcoholics are getting younger as a class all the time nowadays and have for decades now. Myself, I was 'pure alcoholic' by 15. I started at twelve. I finally quit at 24 back in 1981. I suppose you could go on to challenge my ideas and personal back story experience of what being an active alcoholic means, as well as what being a recovered alcoholic drug addict means too. Today I'm 56.
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Old 02-08-2014, 11:56 AM
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If anyone is interested.....read about a group called the 'washingtonians'. It was a group that preceded AA, and it's goal was to help alcoholics. They then decided since it worked so well for that, to open it up to other 'problems'. Well, the group disbanded soon after that. I read somewhere also, that there is a difference between how the body processes alcohol and other drugs. I'm sure I'll be challenged with facts and/or statistics, and that's fine. I just don't have the time to be doing exhaustive research and posting about it. I actually have a life now that I'm sober!

I just attended an 'AA' group yesterday that believes in talking about drugs and alcohol and doesn't follow AA traditions. The meeting is dying. There are only a handful of people that go there. There is one guy who sits at the front table and thinks he's the boss or something and is very opinionated. He started with me yesterday about how 'his group' can talk about anything. Well, fine...but it's not AA then. So, each to his own. AA works for me and I just will go 'over the river and through the woods' to the 'real' AA meeting that sticks to traditions and is always packed with people! Nobody has been kicked out of that meeting for talking about drugs, but most people are respectful of the group conscience and don't. If they want to they can go to the other group and talk at length about it. I've used drugs to enhance my drinking and I will mention that in my story, but the focus is on alcohol, my drug of choice. If I was a heroin addict or something I would to to NA as it would **** me off that I am restricted to talking about it in AA. But I'm not. I went to both meetings and I identify more with AA.

So, to each his own. There's so many meetings, some are pure AA, some are hybrid. Instead of fighting to change that meeting with the guy who runs it, I choose to practice changing the things I can change and not go to that meeting anymore.
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Old 02-08-2014, 01:56 PM
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Originally Posted by 4thdimension86 View Post
There I said it! Do any "traditionalists" object to that? I do not feel that talking about drugs in a meeting is a violation of the traditions. Alcohol was not my drug of choice. An alcoholic is simply a drug addict whose drug of choice is alcohol. I think saying the "dry goods" is ridiculous. Everyone knows what I mean anyway. The term "alcoholic/addict" is used several times in The Doctor's Opinion. Drug use is mentioned frequently throughout the Big Book. It is no secret that Dr. Bob and Bill Wilson used drugs. The story "Acceptance is the Answer" is one of the most important stories in the Big Book and it is almost exclusively about drug use. The author of the story used "speed" and opiates. He was much like myself. I shot OPIATES and COCAINE in my arm with a SYRINGE! I did drink heavily at some points in my active addiction and I am sure I could have been a true alcoholic if I worked for it but I discovered things that I liked more. Furthermore, I did not find a solution in NA. If you ever read the Basic Text and attended NA meetings you should be aware that IT IS NOT THE SAME 12 STEP PROGRAM! It was based on AA but there are clearly big differences. I am bringing this up because the chair person at a meeting interrupted me while I was sharing and told me to keep it to alcoholism because I was talking about drugs. What really ticked me off was that the chair person was a heroin addict like myself and no one else in that meeting cared. In fact most of them were addicts. Yes I caught a resentment! I think society views alcohol as being different as drugs and unfortunately that attitude is still prevalent in AA. If simply mentioning drugs in a meeting is a violation of the traditions than that means every reference to drugs in the Big Book needs to be removed. Any opinions on this matter?
The meetings I go to people mention using "Dry goods" and they mention their drug use briefly. most meeting I go to do not let you talk extensively about drug use, the reason being is to protect the newcomer and keeping our primary purpose. I do not think alcohol and heroin and pills are all the same thing. they have different physiological effects and the lengths people go to for drugs are quite different than the lengths people go to for alcohol. Have you ever seen someone turn to prostitution for alcohol?

My main point to you is to find a sponsor who has an experience with your type of drug. another addict.

I personally would never sponsor a crack addict, because I am an alcoholic we have two different experiences and I will lead him to another member of AA who is an alcoholic/crack addict. Respect the chairperson's rules. I wouldn't go to an NA meeting sharing a drunk a log because it's disrespectful.
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Old 02-08-2014, 02:45 PM
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Originally Posted by soberhal9 View Post
Have you ever seen someone turn to prostitution for alcohol?
Yes I have. The rest of your post I kinda agree with but thought that needed to be said.

Its not about whats a better or worse addiction or what depravities people get up to. Alcohol and heroin can both take people to the end of the line and will at the chronic stages. Usage patterns and behaviour may vary along the way

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Old 02-08-2014, 03:20 PM
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Originally Posted by soberhal9 View Post
Have you ever seen someone turn to prostitution for alcohol?
.
No, but I've heard in the rooms of some ending up in prostitution because of what alcohol did to them.
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Old 02-08-2014, 03:35 PM
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Originally Posted by soberhal9 View Post
Have you ever seen someone turn to prostitution for alcohol?
Yes, I have. Alcohol is very plentiful within the realms of prostitution. The other thing is it is very rare that drug addicts also don't make use of alcohol in some fashion. The drug addict that NEVER makes use of alcohol is really unusual. We can argue what "make use" means, but still the point is many alcoholics don't make ANY use of plenty of kinds of illegal drugs, but active drug addicts routinely make use of alcohol.
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Old 02-08-2014, 03:45 PM
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Originally Posted by 4thdimension86 View Post
I am bringing this up because the chair person at a meeting interrupted me while I was sharing and told me to keep it to alcoholism because I was talking about drugs. What really ticked me off was that the chair person was a heroin addict like myself and no one else in that meeting cared. In fact most of them were addicts. Yes I caught a resentment! I think society views alcohol as being different as drugs and unfortunately that attitude is still prevalent in AA. If simply mentioning drugs in a meeting is a violation of the traditions than that means every reference to drugs in the Big Book needs to be removed. Any opinions on this matter?
If I'd been chairing that meeting, I would have interrupted you too! The only distinction I would make is this. If you were sitting in a "closed" AA meeting, the topic is to be kept on the subject of AA or alcoholism as it relates to each person. If you were off on a tangent about shooting, snorting, or smoking, you were off subject. An AA meeting ceases to be an AA meeting when the topic has to do with anything other than AA or alcoholism. If you want to discuss something else, go to an "open" meeting where you can speak on any subject. Otherwise, stand by for more resentments. By the way, even though Bob and Bill were involved in other things, they still settled on calling us Alcoholics Anonymous. The third tradition says the only requirement is a desire to stop drinking. Emphasize the word "drinking".
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Old 02-08-2014, 04:05 PM
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Here's something for you to chew on for a minute. I believe EVERYONE who does drugs such as crystal meth, cocaine, heroin...etc., will become addicted to said drugs. Not the same with alcohol. Not everyone who drinks alcohol, becomes an alcoholic. So, alcohol is NOT a drug like other street drugs!
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Old 02-08-2014, 04:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Music View Post
Here's something for you to chew on for a minute. I believe EVERYONE who does drugs such as crystal meth, cocaine, heroin...etc., will become addicted to said drugs. Not the same with alcohol. Not everyone who drinks alcohol, becomes an alcoholic. So, alcohol is NOT a drug like other street drugs!
Not sure I agree. I've done coke and smoked pot back (way back) in the day. Afterwards, I never tried to get more and didn't give it too much though. In other words, I didn't get addicted - and they were "drugs".
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Old 02-08-2014, 07:18 PM
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I used to call myself alkie/addict but that was a lie. The truth was drugs in general were my "drug of choice" until I chose not to use them anymore. By an act of the will, I stopped. That would qualify me as a drug abuser, maybe even a heavy user, but not a real addict. I would, when using drugs, often/usually be taken to my drug of no choice - booze. That qualifies me as powerless over drugs once in my system but, as I just stated, I hadn't lost the power of choice yet.

My drug of NO choice was alcohol. Regardless of what I'd choose or decide, I'd be drinking again shortly.

I know several "addicts" who could take or leave booze - but once drinking were powerless over where the booze took them - to drugs.

When a heroine addict shoots up, his physical craving subsides. When an alcoholic get his drink, his physical craving for more is triggered.

So, while some have indicated an opinion that drug addiction and alcoholism are the same, they're clearly not. I didn't like accepting that when I first heard it so I anticipate others won't like it either.

My powerlessness over drugs (once in my system) and my desire to stay "clean" may qualify me to attend a closed NA meeting, I would not share at said meeting (and I haven't when I've gone) and I'd never presume to sponsor or carry my story to a real addict.

As for not liking this program or that program but insisting AA's deal seems to work..... Why not follow the instruction aimed right at such a dilemma: "create the fellowship you crave." Ie... Start your own meeting with people who've got the same problem who are looking for the same solution. Rather than continuing to bitch about some of the (IMO) crappy meetings in my area, I'm looking into starting a new meeting where, God willing, a fellowship will grow of like minded people who's participation, insight and fellowship we'll all crave.

And finally, when something or someone in AA ticked me off, it was usually my self-centered reaction to insist AA or the other person change to suit me. Over time I've come to understand and accept that my problems ARE of my making and that they arise out of me - selfish and self-centered in the extreme....though I usually don't think so. Not believing they're MY problem, I typically avoid steps 4 and 5 (where we make a list that's the KEY to our freedom) for as long as I can take the pain of self pity, anxiousness, and general emotional discord. Then..... I finally break down and try working the steps again.....where I learn for the gazillionth time....thankfully....that no person nor any institution needs to change for me to be OK.
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Old 02-08-2014, 08:04 PM
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Originally Posted by paulokes View Post
Yes I have. The rest of your post I kinda agree with but thought that needed to be said.

Its not about whats a better or worse addiction or what depravities people get up to. Alcohol and heroin can both take people to the end of the line and will at the chronic stages. Usage patterns and behaviour may vary along the way

P
Both can cause depravity, my point is that I would never let someone who is an addict sponsor an alcoholic like me because I can't identify as well as an alcoholic. It's about experience. Likewise I wouldn't sponsor an non alcoholic/addict because he won't relate to me.
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Old 02-08-2014, 08:17 PM
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I've never did much research on the drug use during the mid 30's . The meetings I attend consist of many dual addicted members. Usually people mention alcohol addict as they introduce them selves.

Of all the things I've put in my body, alcohol did the biggest number on me. Never took any drugs that caused me to black out and lose a whole weekend.
I do believe in a group conscience on this matter though
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Old 02-08-2014, 10:25 PM
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I did a lot of drugs in the past and I was definitely addicted to opiates for about a year and a half. What I found is that while I had a physical addiction to opiates (which blossomed from legitimate use for chronic pain after complications from major surgery), I did not have a mental obsession for them. Once I was able to break the physical addiction I no longer craved them or obsessed over them.

Looking back there was one constant for me, alcohol. I drank when I did drugs and I drank when I didn't do drugs. The drugs came and went during my drinking career but king alcohol was my master.

I know several people in AA who would probably identify themselves as drug addicts with an alcohol problem. Generally if/when they drink it leads them back to their drug(s) of choice, so they do have a genuine desire to stop drinking. These people tend to keep their shares to their experience with alcohol or their addiction in a general manner without getting into details about a particular drug. The addicts I know in AA have good sobriety and have a lot of experience to offer, but they have learned to share in a way that stays true to AA's primary purpose.
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Old 02-09-2014, 01:49 AM
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Originally Posted by soberhal9 View Post
I do not think alcohol and heroin and pills are all the same thing. they have different physiological effects and the lengths people go to for drugs are quite different than the lengths people go to for alcohol. Have you ever seen someone turn to prostitution for alcohol?
I mean no offense to you Soberhal, as I typically find your contributions quite useful and challenging. However, on this topic, I find your view very close minded and myopic. People turn tricks all the time for alcohol, as well as drugs.

I am just shocked at how many of you on this Board are alcoholics that are unwilling to accept that you are addicts. I can only reconcile this as a self identity issue created by the social dogma associated with drug use.

Society creates stigmas based on class. I am wealthy by any standards but see no difference between myself and a homeless IV drug user on the Street except for time and progression of our common disease. It is my view that by self identifying as someone above a disease that has no prejudice or social bounds is only self harming and deluded.

Freethinking - your view is not consistent with several studies. In particular, I would point you towards the studies of servicemen that returned from Vietnam after using heroin for a prolonged period of time and yet only 15% remain addicted over a 5yr period. You can Google this and I believe it nullifies your hypothesis.
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Old 02-09-2014, 03:03 AM
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Originally Posted by jdooner View Post
I am just shocked at how many of you on this Board are alcoholics that are unwilling to accept that you are addicts. I can only reconcile this as a self identity issue created by the social dogma associated with
jdooner bear with while I say this. Yep, there are lots of folks here that prefer to identify as alcoholic than addict, and see a difference between them. Perhaps its not a case of prejudice or not being in posession of the facts.

I did a stint as a substance counsellor, I am not ignorant of the science.

I think this is as important as finding your own conception of God, each person must decide for themselves what their problem or problems are...you either identify with the AA concept of Alcoholism or you don't. Me - I see myself as an Alcoholic with "other", mostly behavioural, problems on the side.

P
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Old 02-09-2014, 03:31 AM
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Paul - thanks - I appreciate opinions and understand if someone would rather relate to being an alcoholic vs calling themselves an addict. I guess where I get hung up is when its thrown around as facts.

I drank for 24 years. I have used cocaine less than 12 times. I chose to call myself an addict/alcoholic bc I feel the addictive mindset is what was affecting me. Again, this is just my experience and I am open to changing this as I become more enlightened.

appreciate your comments Paul.
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Old 02-09-2014, 05:34 AM
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Originally Posted by jdooner View Post
Paul - thanks - I appreciate opinions and understand if someone would rather relate to being an alcoholic vs calling themselves an addict. I guess where I get hung up is when its thrown around as facts.
Yep absolutely...seems to grate either way when people present the arguments as facts...me I have to try and get less attached to my opinions and remember just that they work for me

P

Edit: Oh and yea, absolutely I find us folks often share the same underlying problems and addictive tendencies. To use AA language, we share a malady, a spiritual problem and on those grounds we can often identify and relate to each other.

I was always told there are three sides to my "ilness"..a physical, mental and a spiritual. That model works for me and I find there are aspects to the physical/mental that I only get in AA...for me I find that to be important for identification at depth.

I'm getting a little more Open-minded on the subject as time goes by, live and let live as they say

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