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Old 11-30-2014, 09:50 AM   #1 (permalink)
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AA sued. Family Blames For Murder Of Daughter


48 Hours Mystery had a story about a women who met her murderer at AA. He was found guilty but the parents are suing AA partly to post warning that there might be predators in the meeting(This board emphasizes the point or be aware of predators).

The Sober Truth - CBS News

I am no way supporting alcoholism or drug abuse but I will back AA on this. The couple's daughter voluntarily chose to go to AA which was a good thing. Her boyfriend had a criminal record. The family says AA needs to warn attendees there might be or are ex cons in the group/meeting. But shouldn't anyone always be aware of predators? They say AA was too anonymous in this case. But isn't "anonymous" is what entices many to go, at least they are doing something about their drinking.

And as someone who is dealing with a family alkie/druggie the warning signs of predator if not user/abuser were written all over this guy-older adult male mooching off a financially successful women (which the family was already worried about). Think about that. If an older adult needs and/or wants others to pay for their life DANGER. It's one thing to accept a little help but another to turn help, aide or comfort into a money train. Offering SOME help is good, offering them a life with you is another.

The story mentioned that since women are increasing in the alcoholic population/demographics there are more vulnerable women out there doing things like attending AA meetings. Apparently there are inside sayings/jokes about the women in the room. But shouldn't people be looking out for themselves. They say AA or recovery programs even recommend no dating during rehab.

Sad story. Hopefully the story itself alerts people.
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Old 11-30-2014, 10:06 AM   #2 (permalink)
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This is so sad
Let's face it: predators are everywhere. If they had met at the local art museum or at Macy's, I seriously doubt that the family would be suing those and I also seriously doubt that the issue of safety from predators while shopping or looking at artwork would make headlines.
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Old 11-30-2014, 10:07 AM   #3 (permalink)
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I wonder where else the guy went? Are churches responsible for the actions of their members? What about fan clubs? Rotary or lions club? Was he ever in Boy Scouts? Say someone has a netflix membership, watches a horror movie, then kills someone. Perhaps they are liable for contributing to his dangerous ideas?

The lack of personal accountability is a root of many problems in our society.
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Old 11-30-2014, 10:17 AM   #4 (permalink)
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I didn't watch the link. Did she complain and they did nothing about it? I can figure how how they are responsible. There are freaks everywhere. At my group we throw a dollar in the basket. So what do they think they are gong to get? I hope the goal isn't to shut down Aa it's helped to many people
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Old 11-30-2014, 10:43 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Also it's a big deal and I was told from the beginning "the men stick with the men, the women with the women" I know of instances that hadn't happened. That would be up to the person though. Idk, I need to watch the link.
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Old 11-30-2014, 10:53 AM   #6 (permalink)
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I have to watch that too. I don't think that AA would be responsible directly for it. It does set up an environment for vulnerable people to be hooked up with predators though. It is worth looking into things that would keep newly sober people safe.
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Old 11-30-2014, 11:14 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by DoubleBarrel View Post
I wonder where else the guy went? Are churches responsible for the actions of their members? What about fan clubs? Rotary or lions club? Was he ever in Boy Scouts? Say someone has a netflix membership, watches a horror movie, then kills someone. Perhaps they are liable for contributing to his dangerous ideas?

The lack of personal accountability is a root of many problems in our society.

Some things on personal responsibility. At the crime scene/women's condo they found empty alcohol bottleS. She was abused by the murderer around a month prior to the murder-on record. If you look at this guy in the jail cell after his arrest it's obvious he can go bonkers at times.

Sadly they found drugs in the murder victim's system. This was her 6th time run at rehab although they made it seem this was supposed to be refresher. And again they really don't want dating members let alone living together. This all happened relatively fast. I think it was over a 6 month period.

If this was her 6th attempt at rehab I can't believe she didn't pick up on things like predators or predatory behavior ie men trying to pick up women. The report did cite several other examples where predators used AA meetings for crime.

AA is one of many tools. If it is not used right things can happen.
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Old 11-30-2014, 11:27 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Ok...i just read an article about it. I should not have posted until I read it. Poor girl. What is really sad.

Yeah, there are a lot of meetings that have court ordered people in them. I think most are nice and liven up the meeting when they share. I'm not going to ask any of them to move in with me though.
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Old 11-30-2014, 01:15 PM   #9 (permalink)
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I think that if at all possible young women with children should be informed if a member is a registered sex offender. Years ago a friend's daughter got involved with a man in AA who molested her children. Also many of these offenders can be found on Megan's Law for instance. Keep an eye on your children and go with your gut.
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Old 11-30-2014, 01:20 PM   #10 (permalink)
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I think that if at all possible young women with children should be informed if a member is a registered sex offender. Years ago a friend's daughter got involved with a man in AA who molested her children. Also many of these offenders can be found on Megan's Law for instance. Keep an eye on your children and go with your gut.
Since AA does not use last names, there is no way to know if a member is a sex offender. I have signed court slips for my home group and it does not state the nature of the person's offense.
What any woman with children should do when she starts dating a man is to look him up on the sex offender registry before even considering bringing him home.
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Old 11-30-2014, 01:56 PM   #11 (permalink)
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I wonder why the court doesn't give a "heads up" when a violent offender is ordered to aa. It's anonymous so no one can check what they did. In my town people are ordered for DUI , possession , blah blah blah .... Whatever, don't we all.

However, if there is also a pending violent charge I think someone should be warned
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Old 11-30-2014, 04:05 PM   #12 (permalink)
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A few years ago two young girls were abducted and murdered in this area. No one has been arrested but it it is common suspicion that one girl's stepfather is the likely culprit. The case is notorious here.
Both sets of parents have been arrested multiple times for drug offenses (meth) and at least 2 are in jail right now.
One night I was at the adjoining Alanon meeting and there were lots of whispers going around. Turns out the stepfather attended the AA meeting and had left in the middle to go outside and get high (he did it right outside the Alanon room window) then returned.
One of the Alanon guys (a retired cop) was pretty fired up about it. Said he wasn't going to "protect that SOB's anonymity", etc. It was pretty upsetting and we weren't sure what to do. Several members had observed the illegal activity, and we knew one phone call mentioning that guy's name would bring an army of law enforcement to the building.
We actually discussed it at length in the meeting. Considered personal safety of members, and also the 12th tradition. The upshot was, the guy hadn't endangered the life of anyone at the meeting, except his own, and to report his transgression might possibly deter those seeking true recovery through AA or Alanon because of his notoriety. Someone also made the point that if he was sitting in a meeting (or getting high in the parking lot) he wasn't out raping and murdering 10 year old girls. So we left it alone, according to our group conscience.
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Old 11-30-2014, 05:38 PM   #13 (permalink)
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I wonder why the court doesn't give a "heads up" when a violent offender is ordered to aa. It's anonymous so no one can check what they did. In my town people are ordered for DUI , possession , blah blah blah .... Whatever, don't we all.

However, if there is also a pending violent charge I think someone should be warned
How wou
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Old 11-30-2014, 05:45 PM   #14 (permalink)
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I wonder why the court doesn't give a "heads up" when a violent offender is ordered to aa. It's anonymous so no one can check what they did. In my town people are ordered for DUI , possession , blah blah blah .... Whatever, don't we all.

However, if there is also a pending violent charge I think someone should be warned
How would you give a heads up to the group? Announce it at the beginning of a meeting? A poster? Obviously there is no real way to do this.

And would it make a difference? If someone is uncautious enough date some one from the rooms whom they barely know, they are unlikely to pay heed to any warning.

Maybe groups ought not be so encouraging of members dating each other. Officially they are not, but in practice groups find it cute and smile on members dating each other...in my experience at least.
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Old 11-30-2014, 10:24 PM   #15 (permalink)
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I tried watching that several times but my internet is crappy today. It seems that the family is suing because they feel AA knows they have a predator problem but is not doing enough to protect people. It seems they want violent criminals separated from the rest. AA is due to reply tomorrow. Just have to wait for the court findings.
Considering all this if I or one of my friends were to attend AA I think I would just pick a women's group.
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Old 12-02-2014, 09:28 AM   #16 (permalink)
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It's a ridiculous argument. These people are adults. AA is in no way responsible for these adults making the decision to become intimately involved with someone they meet at a meeting. How many women take home men they meet at bars who rape and murder them and u don't hear about the bars being sued.
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Old 12-02-2014, 09:35 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Yes, I saw that on Dateline, I think. Their thesis is that due to the mystifying "13th step"' vulnerable newcomers are in danger of being prey to more criminal minded members with ulterior motives.
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Old 12-02-2014, 10:06 AM   #18 (permalink)
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the parents had tried to sue na for the same thing in 2012 and had to withdraw there law suit i dont know why ? does anyone know what happend over that ?

have a read of this link and some of the comments made its a different view of it all
one poster even said aa should counter sue the parents for the parents failing to be proper parents as the parents knew the danger the girl was in yet did nothing as they didnt like the chap there girl was in and had far more experience of the troubles that went out between them than anyone in aa would of known about
http://www.signalscv.com/section/36/article/129230/
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Old 12-02-2014, 11:09 AM   #19 (permalink)
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From what I read the man was in a sober house and she was in a recovery program. They both had to attend AA meetings outside the sober house and outside the rehab.

They both attended a place called The Recovery room that had open AA meetings. They were both shuttled to this meeting from the separate places they were staying at.

How this is AAs fault that they attended these meetings is beyond me. They could blame the sober house and the rehab for forcing them to go to an AA meeting. If they did not make that a requirement and made arrangements to take them there then they never would have met. How about placing responsibility on the two people that were in the sober house and the rehab. Of course they were both sick, mentally and spiritually but they also had free will.

From day one I heard, men with men, woman with woman and I still hear it and I say it but that does not mean that people do not have free will. If Jane wants to date Dick there is nothing I can do about it. They could have met on the street corner just as easily as they met in an AA meeting.

How many drug dealers are being sued because two people that both wanted drugs at the same time happened to meet at his house and started a relationship that ended in tragedy? In all honesty, the drug dealer probably has more 411 on his customers than the secretary at an AA meeting.
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Old 12-02-2014, 11:20 AM   #20 (permalink)
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Excellent post Gracie Lou. Like you I ve always heard and I will recommend that the men stick with the men and the women with the women and also that newcomers should wait at least a year before they get involved in a relationship.
A LOT of people do not listen to suggestions (just check out the newcomer section of SR!!!) and then suffer the consequences from their actions.
It is very sad when the consequences are deadly but at the end, people are adults and have free will.
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